New UFO thread from the Snarl thread

I didn't want to go off topic in the Snarl thread and was asked for more information about what I posted there. I thought I would share these because it's a weird topic that some people enjoy and others dis-believe, usually quite controversial.

On the website for Snarl's radio station is a picture of a UFO that has a link to UFO stuff. I was joking about maybe I could sue for using the picture and that my sister had snapped the shot back in 1968. I wasn't joking about the sister part, she did take the picture along with 5 others. I dug them out and scanned them tonight. I posted them to my website so I could link to them here. I'm sorry for the quality of the pictures but they are almost 40 years old and well worn. I scanned them in their entirety to show that they really are the originals with border and all. For those of you that think I went and found the pictures on the internet somewhere....



So the story goes...(condensed version)

My sister is now 64 years old. Back in 1968 she was visiting a male friend of hers that lived somewhere on the outskirts of Albuquerque New Mexico. Through their conversations the subject came up of UFOs, he said he sees them all the time in the desert and he'd take her out to the area. He did and in a very short period of time a flying object showed up. My sister, who was skepical about the whole thing to begin with, only had a few shots left on the roll of film in the camera. (WTF was she thinking I don't know. Someone tells you they're going to show you something absolutely amazing and you don't have film....duh) Anyway, the following is what she captured on film. Click on the thumbs for the full size pics. Again, I apologize for the quality, they are old.











This is the picture used on the website, cut down and recolored.

There's more to the story that I won't go into detail about....the object made no sound, could stop or turn on a dime, incredible acceleration, the friend converses with them, my sister trusted the government and sent the negatives with her encounter, project bluebook, yada, yada, yada.

When I was younger I was a strong believer. As I've gotton older....not so much anymore. I would love to know what was really going on there. Do I think we're the only life in the universe? No, that would be silly to believe. Do I think another life form has traveled thousands of light years to visit our planet and not stopped to say hello? No, again, that would be silly too....wouldn't it?

Anyway, that's the rest of the story for the most part. I can't prove the stuff I was told that I won't go into but I do know for sure that these are the original pictures and my sister took them. Other than that.....who knows.

Whacko post of the month

XterrAZ - cool pix. The third one down, was the object on a treadmill? Was it standing still? Either way-got to love those old pics pre-digital and pre photoshop. One of the coolest things I have experienced since moving from NJ to NV is all the streaks and flashes we get to see in the dark, moonless nites. Check your PM.

Excellent pictures. I don't think I've seen them anywhere before. Did she contact the gov. or did they contact her? Thanks for sharing. Now put them away and wait for a visit from Mr. Apol.

Thanks for responding XterrAZ.

Those photos were taken near Albuquerque, New Mexico by a man named Apolinar 'Paul' Villa Jr. in 1963.

He was a fraud. The photos of course are fakes.

http://www.rense.com/general53/tm_jun.htm



A clearer shot of one of the photos...



I'm sure your sister was putting one over on you and bought those photos as postcards or something.

eBay Link...

You can even buy cleaned up copies of Villa's photos on the web....

http://www.art.com/asp/display_artist-asp/_/crid--64825/Paul_Villa.htm

Myth: Busted

My wife came home after a late v-ball practice one night and said that the whole way home she had 3 bright lights in front of her like she had never seen before. I had been hearing military jets and helicopters in the area all night so I told her she was probably seeing those, but she said no way. So she has me go out in the yard and look and I'll be damned if she wasn't right. 3 of the strangest lights I've ever saw. Very very bright and moving very strangely. I've never seen anything like it and still wonder what it was to this day. By the time I got the camera out they were gone.

I'm still not a big believer in UFO's, I just think it's all top secret military stuff.

Myself and my family were camping in Southern England when I was about 10 years old. Quite a big campground with alot of people there, my sister and about 20 other people saw a flying disk just fly slowly over the place, before accelerating out to sea crazy fast. That was talk of the camp that evening, to many people saw it for it to just be my sister making shit up.

Not seen any UFOs myself, but I've sure as hell seen some Ghosts in the old town of Chipping Sodbury in England where I grew up.

Unidentified flying Plymouth Belvedere hubcap.

The lights in the sky over Phoenix 10 years ago....that's the one I want debunked.

The recent lights were flares down on the Goldwater range, but on those you can see the trail of smoke, etc.

The lights back in 1997 were seen north of the city and later in Northern Arizona....seen by hundreds of people.

Yep, heard it all before. There are several people that claim to have taken the pictures, Villa being the most outspoken.

As for the "clearer" picture you posted, that is a picture taken of the picture I had done to gain negatives back in 1979. That was one of the prints from those negatives that I scanned and posted to a website several years ago.

The pictures I have posted are the originals. It took my sister years to recover them from the government, they would not return the negatives.

Did you think about the last two sentences of your quote when you posted them? -
" Later Villa began producing photos of flying saucers that were only small, crude models, some with rather laughable tripod landing gear that resembled nothing more than a rod with a ball at the end. The little ships appeared to be sloppily painted silver and in many of the photos, inexplicable little silver balls were shown floating around the saucer, perhaps to help conceal the wires that upheld it. "

Why would someone go backwards from producing incredible fakes to laughable ones? If you were capable of a hoax as good as what these pictures are, you then later create laughable junk pictures? The reality is that he didn't produce the so called fake pictures in 1963 but only the laughable ones later with claims that he took the first ones. Villa was a proven fraud, he also fraudulantly claimed he was responsible for my sister's pics.

I'd love to see a website with any of these pictures showing the wires or poles or whatever holding the saucer up and proving them to be fakes.

All I can tell you is what I've known for the last 39 years about the story. Believe what you want to, I know the truth. As I said in the original thread, usually quite controversial.

The Truth is Out There. Trust No One. Deny Everything. I Want To Believe.

This thread is sounding more and more like an X-Files episode! Unidentified aircraft, real photos, stolen photos, faked photos, cover-ups, denibility, government involvement!

Gotta be true. Everyone knows there is an underground UFO base in Dulce NM right? http://www.subversiveelement.com/Dulce_Index.html

No wires or cables are needed to sail a hubcap through the air like a frisbee and capture a shot of it in mid flight.

Not trying to shit on your story, Mike, but to me, those pics just LOOK hokey.

X2

XterrAZ is a great poster and a valuable contributor, but there's no such thing as alien UFOs sailing around making random contact with people.

Why would some other life form travel across BILLIONS and BILLIONS (said like Carl Sagan) of miles just to make contact with one person, then sail off again.

People that really believe this stuff just don't grasp the vastness of space. We're a molecule of life in the Sahara desert known as the Universe.

When you go on vacation to someplace nice and warm, do you say hi to the first person you see off the airplane then turn around and go home?!?

No offense taken.

I didn't take the pictures nor was I there. Just telling the story as I know it and as it was told to me.

Throughout the years I've never had a reason to not believe my sister. For me, this isn't a story coming from a friend of a freind's brother's cousin that knows a guy who was in jail with his dad's half nephew twice removed....it's my sister....kind of hard for me not to think it's the truth. For everyone else, it's just another story on the internet.

If everyone believed everything they read we'd all be sheep (that could read).

Whether or not the photos are real, I think this brings up an interesting issue. I do believe in intelligent extraterrestrial life (aka aliens), and think that you'd have to be mentally retarded not to. From a logical point of view: to think that of the billions of solar systems, galaxies, and stars that ours is the only one to develop intelligent life, is akin to believing that the world is flat. Has any extraterrestrial civilization actually reached it to earth yet? That, I'm not sure of.

Like you suggested, would they come all this way and not say hello? I think the answer is a resounding "yes," they would NOT say hello.....right away. If we ever develop long distance space travel, and come across and alien civilization, what would we do? I think we would perform extensive observations and studies before determining if they are a threat and if their civilization is developmentally ready to deal with the reality of extraterrestrial life.

I totally understand where you're coming from.

I just file stuff like ghosts, aliens, Sasquaches and Cubs World Series chances in the "shit I have to see with my own two eyes to believe" folder.

As an astronomer I've spent more time than most under the night sky. Ive seen some weird things but never anything that couldn't be explained.

Look at how far we humans have come in a pathetically short amount of time. Then compare that with the normal evolutionary development of other species. We've come to far to fast to have not received a helping hand from someone else as far as I'm concerned.

Say the world got wiped out tomorrow by some big asteroid or something. Then in another couple of million years some surviving cockroach species develops into intelligent life and starts digging up our remains. They wouldn't believe that a species could have developed so fast in less than 2,000 years.

Lots of evidence out there to support that man may have received a helping hand. Maybe these guys aren't so much 'Spying' on us - Maybe they are giving us a nudge in the right direction every now and again.

Ok....Me being a Cubs fan....Found that funny!!!

How did the helping hand help us, and who helped the helping hand that helped us?

AHHHHHHH!!! Alliteration!!

You are basing that assumption of just the species on earth... Who knows, on other planets they might be laughing at the pathetic humans who took forever to discover fire... or viable space travel...

This topic is very interesting. I too have always wondered about this very thing. I recently was given the only evidence I will ever need, a short video and I was totally convinced. See for yourself
http://www.egotastic.com/video?bc=533329063&w=486&h=390&info=Tyra%20Banks%20Squeezes%20Katharine%20McPhee\'s%20Breasts

The pictures that you claim were taken by your sister are the exact same pictures taken by Paul Villa.

The pictures have long been documented as Villa's pictures. They were also taken prior to 1968 when your sister is suppossed to have taken them.

Was your sister a friend of Paul Villa's?

The government's Project Blue Book says Villa's images are fakes. There are some whacko UFO websites that claim they are real.

However, there is little doubt that those images are all attributed to Paul Villa's work.

Read "The Day After Roswell" by Col. Philip J. Corso. Its about how alien technology was harvested from the recovered Roswell UFO. Its a little dry, but interesting.

No doubt in your mind.

Having the originals in my possesion says I know differently. We can argue points back and forth forever on the subject. Again, Villa was a fraud, nothing more.

You're taking the stand of something you read on the internet without true knowledge. Could I be wrong on the date my sister took the pictures? Possibly, it was a long time ago, 68 is what stuck in my head and I still believe that to be true.

My sister has been MIA for the last several years but she has popped up in the Sacramento area and I am working on contacting her. I will revisit the circumstances surrounding this event and will also ask if she still has the Project Blue Book report that was sent along with the return of the prints.

I don't fault you for believing what you have read about Villa, he fooled a lot of people for a long time, that's what frauds and fakes do.

Maybe the mothership came back for her?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Mulder?

I'll give you the link to the images in Project Blue Book.

http://www.bluebookarchive.org/page.aspx?PageCode=NARA-PBB94-458

The exact same photos you claim were taken by your sister are in Project Blue Book dated 1963.

The Blue Book images in the archives are crude photocopies of the images.... but there is no doubt that they are the same images you attribute to your sister. They include the exact same shots and even include the image with the car in the foreground.

There is no doubt that the Paul Villa images are frauds. However, doesn't seem to be any doubt that the pictures were not originated by Paul Villa.

Are you claiming Villa stole your sister's pictures and took credit?

How could Villa have taken credit and obtained copies of the images in order to claim that credit if the feds had the pictures as you have stated?

I'm not arguing with you... I'm just saying some things are not adding up.

Was your sister in New Mexico in 1963? She would have been about 21 back then.

Now I have the Xfiles music playing in my head. Over and over...

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/vortex/330/xmid.mid

I saw several strange things while I was in New Mexico for school. One of these happened while I was heading out to the springs near Jemez Springs. On the drive up you pass by the Valles Caldera on your right. It is always a nice view but this time there were about 8 all white non marked 18 wheelers parked along the road with large spotlights set up. We passed them without incident and kept driving. *For a while after 9-11 you could be driving in the middle of nowhere and you would come across a random military checkpoint with guys with automatic rifles* OK so we made it to the springs and we were just relaxing and then all of us saw this amazingly bright light in the sky. It was brighter than the moon and traveled from one side of my vision to the other. We had no idea what it was and nobody had ever seen anything like it (definitely not a shooting star) On the drive home all of the trucks had moved from the roadside but the spotlights were now down inside the caldera.

My guess is it was either some kind of military test or maybe a small asteroid coming down but either way it was crazy to see.

Well Madman, you bring up some very interesting points. Not trying to argue on this end either, just relaying a story as it was told to me.

All I can say is what I've said here I've known as the truth for a very long time. I have no proof other than the photos and my sister's word.

My mind is strained trying to remember back to when I first saw the photos and the timeline of occurances that took place (i.e. when the photos were returned and when I first found out about it). I would have been 10 years old in 68. It is not improbable that I found out about my sister's encounter then and that the photos had already been returned to her. That would be a possible senario. From what I was told...the pictures were sent to an officer in the Navy, of which my sister, was a member of way back then. I believe they were called WAC's. I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere but I'll leave that to someone else.

Was Villa her friend in New Mexico? No, we've discussed his name in past conversations but never more than him laying claim to the photos. How did he lay claim to the photos? I don't know. Some very good questions to ask my sister when I talk to her.