Originally posted by Kerensky97:
You said "THE" Militant Arabs like thats all there was, sure I guess you could argue that you only meant the few who fight but your wording inferred something different. Bush does the same thing, infers something but stays vague enough to deny the impression people got later on.
If you are refering to ONLY the militant arabs then you're missing my important distinction that there ARE Palestinians that want peace!
I know there are Palestinians that want peace. I just don't believe they are an overwhelming majority like you seem to think. I am talking about the Palestinians specifically not all Arabs.
I understand the historical reasons for the hatred between the two groups, actually the Arab vs. Jew vs. Christianity conflicts have gone on alot longer than 80 years. The most recent round of hatered started 80 years ago and is reaching a boiling point now.
I understand your point, I just wanted to point out the origin of the current problems.
What I'm saying is we need to stop them from fighting and show them that what they're doing is wrong. Your implication that since the Palestinians have sheltered this hatred for 80 years and they need to be punished by letting the Israelis roll over them in ethically wrong.
Again, when did I say the Israelis should be allowed to roll over them. I simply stated that Arafat is a rejectionist, and a terrorist. He has had chance after chance for peace and has always gie it lip service. Unfortunatey that is all it has ever been is lip service.
No you didn't see any of them, the american media showed you two. The thing is there aren't many Muslims in America and those that there are are already persicuted into silence by americans who blame Muslims in general for terrorism in the world. That's why I'm saying ask around yourself and see how many Muslims condone terrorism. You'd be lucky to find many, and the ones you do are the extremeists and the people the extremeists have brainwashed.
I think the persecution angle is a bit ridiculous to say the least. As a rule America is not persecuting it's Muslim residents at all. That is just hyperbolic BS. Show me another religion that is committing terrorist acts around the world. Look I don't hate Muslims. I have worked with them, and actually discuss these issues with them almost every day. One of the guys is Egyptian and the other guy is from Iran. They own the neighborhood store I go into every day. Your claim that there aren't many Muslims in America is pretty ridiculous as well.
I had the good fortune to actually talk to a few Muslims, foreign Muslims at that, and when we mentioned the World Trade Center Attacks they bowed their heads and offered their condolences.
This from people who live in crumbleing huts in the middle of a war who were going to live like kings off the food and clean water we were giving them, and they were still sorry for the pain WE had suffered.
Good. All the ones I have talked to have told me the same thing. You are making this to broad. The Palestinians are the issue really. Remember them dancing in the streets? How about the polls?
This is where your ignorance on the Islamic Religion REALLY shows through. While Muslims do have a history of violence, the majority of believers were convereted peacefully. Plus almost all religions have a history of violence, didn't you ever hear of the crusades? And how many wars have been declared in the name of God?
Try actually learning what Islam is before you start to make judgements like that. I recomend the book "Islam- Faith,Culture,History" by Paul Lunde. You'd learn that Mumammad was persicuted and ran out of Mecca, then attacked after converting Medina, before returning to conquor Mecca. But when he arrived at Mecca a peace treaty was signed.
Also Islam faith is built on five pillars:
-The Profession of Faith; there is only one god and Muhammad is his messenger.
-Prayer; Five Daily
-Alms; Charity, a fundamental to Islam
-Fasting; Sunrise to Sunset during Ramadan (I learned that this is actually much more festive that I thought it would be. In Camp Doha after the sun set all the Muslims ate drank and joked around like it was a party.)
-Pilgrimage; Visit Mecca at least once in your lifetime.
-Jihad is NOT one of the pillars, only the extremists consider it to be one. Jihad means "Stuggle,exertion" and there are two kinds "Greater" and "Lesser". "Greater Jihad" is the struggle against evil that Muslims face in everyday lives. "Lesser Jihad" is a "Legal War" which must legally be declared by the Caliph (successor to the Prophet, equivalent of the Pope to Catholics). The enemy has to be unbelievers whose terrirtory borders Islamic territory. Before the opening of hostilities the enemy must be given the chance to convert, if they do they join the believers, if not then they can be conquored by force. POW's become property of the leader. Movable property is divided between the warriors after one fifth is set aside for the poor. Women and Children must not be harmed. Trees or Herds must not be destroyed so pesants don't loose thier livelihood. And "People of the Book" (christians, Jews, or any other religion with scriptures) have a privilidged status and are free to practice their religion.
After learing all that you can see why most all Muslim believers belive that all terrorist attacks are against Islamic Principals and all attackers are going straight to hell. Osama's war isn't even a true Jihad because the person declaring it is some nobody with a bunch of money who wants to declare war on a distant land and murder innocents.[/QB]
That is all well and good my friend. The real problem with Islam is the Wahabi sect of the religion, which seems to be pretty closely related to the Sunni sect. The wahabists do hate us generally. They are the ones that create monsters like UBL. The Sunnis are generally rejectionists as well. They don't believe Israel has a right to exist for the most part.
While this discussion is interesting, it is besides the point of this post really. I am not some redneck that thinks that we should just 'Nuke 'em all, and let Allah sort 'em out!'. That is just ignorant. I know most Arabs are not like the terrorists. I also know that a whole shitload of Arabs are continuously fed a line of bullshit.
I do think that our support of Israel is the right thing to do. I also think the Arab nations, for the most part, all want Israel to dissapear. The entire world hates this tiny country, and the hate is generally based on lies and half-truths that continue to be spread through the universities of the world. People are given a highly slanted side of the story, which conveniently leaves out most of the truth.
Again, everyone please check out the link I posted. It is a Muslim site that actually tells the truth about the triangle of evil known as UBL, Saddam Hussein, and Yasser Arafat.
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