this is my first post here and i'm sorry if this is already posted, but i have never been on a wheeling forum with so many acronyms and i am clueless, what is a pml?? haha, anyway, my roomate just bought an 02 X and wants to run 265/75/16 (32/10.50) toyo M/T's on black rockkrawlers, thought we could do it with no lift but the backspacing on the rim set it to far out and it rubs, so its lift-it time. was thinking about the 3 inch calmini, possibly torsion and shackle (how torsion bars work i have no idea, i'm an xj guy myself) body lift or?? it'll probably never see dirt (as much as it pains me to say..) and overall structural integrity and ride quality are the main concernes, that being said, any help? and has anybody tried those tires with the least amount of lift?

thanks alot

jordan

btw i love xterras and this forum is rad

Another X-Jeeper.



Welcome A Board!



Anyway - Xterras have an independant front suspension (IFS), rather than a live axle as an XJ, etc....

This means that the front end is lifted differently, and tire clearance issues are a bit different. The Torsion Bars hold up the '02 X for example, and, a Poor Man's Lift (PML), consists of using the built-in Torsion Bar adjusters to crank the X up about 1.5"....and then swapping on longer shackles to lift the rear a matching 1.5" (3" of extra shackle length = 1.5" of extra lift...).

A PML is a suspension lift (SL), in that it raises the frame from the ground by the suspension, increasing ground clearance.

Room for larger tires on the X is with a Body Lift (BL)....but, 32x11.5's will fit a stock '02 with no lift of any kind (And therefore, 32x10.5's will also fit, etc...)

For larger than 32's, the BL is required. On the X, the tires will stuff up into the wheel wells as far as they would with, or without a suspension lift (SL)....so if the tires would hit on full stuffage without an SL, they will ALSO hit on full stuffage WITH an SL....

...with the caveat that the tires do have further up to go before hitting with the SL...so the ride height clearance is greater, and a mall crawler/mild offroader (Fire trails, etc...), can sometimes get away with an SL and no BL...and only rub at travel limits, etc.

Essentially, on the IFS, the arms go up/down between the bumpstops (Upper and lower...)...and the arms have no idea what tires you have, and go up/down between the stops the same way regardless of tire size...

...so, if the tires stick out more, they can hit more....when the arms reach the stops.

The 285/70/16 is a better size than the 265/75/16, as it gets you a 32x11.5/16, instead of a stock width 32x10.5/16 equivalent.

I'm running 305/70/16's...which are slightly fatter treaded, and slightly taller, than the same tire in a 33x12.5/15, with a tighter (12") section width.

The people with the Toyo MT's mostly love them....so they are good tires at least. Around here, they are pricey though.



Front tire swing clearance is pretty much the only bogey over the rear clearance issues....tires that clear on straight roads, tend to rub on turns...and the turn stop bolts can be turned out a bit to prevent that.

If the tires stick out past the fenders due to insufficient BS....the tires will also tend to hit more, because they are now swinging in a larger arc (More BS tucks them in and shortens the arc, etc...)

People who have too little BS rub with 31's and BL/SL combo's...and the same X with 5.5" BS rims can clear 33's, etc.

(You want rims with 5.5" of BS ideally, or as close to that as you can get...)

Also on IFS...if the tires stick out too far, on stuffage, the tire can hit your fender on the way up.

Some states do not ALLOW a tire to stick out past the fender either (NJ, etc...), so if your state is one of those...inspection/traffic stops can be a problem.

So - if the main reason for wanting to do a 3" SL is for tire clearance, the BL is the real tire clearance answer, saving a lot of $/time, etc (A BL can be done for ~ $70)....but more BS on the rims would mean you don't need EITHER SL or BL to fit 32's.

Rule of Thumb (ROT): An SL is to increase ground clearance, a BL is to increase tire clearance.

If the rig will never see dirt...and this is for tire clearance...doing the BL makes the most sense. The 3" SL raises the truck's center of gravity (COG), making it more tippy (A bit), costs a coupla grand to do right (Steering kit's needed too, etc...), but might look cool/ride nice, or more wallowy, etc.

The BL doesn't raise the COG much at all, as the body is only a few hundred lb, compared to the several thousand lb frame...and doesn't hurt/change the ride/handling.

On the Jeeps, the BL's had more impact on the body integrity...but, on the X's, they don't, as the X's use 10 body mounts, 5 per side, very sturdy...no one has had a problem.

Have Fun!

oh man that was awesome! thanks, good to know about the body lifts!! now does anybody make a plain black rim w/ 5.5" bs? and whats the iggest tred people run with the bl? thanks again

jordan

You can run a 33x12.5 on a stock offset or close to stock offset rim. It's doable with a 2" BL and PML. anything bigger than a 33 inch tire will require a 3" BL and 3" SL plus some good cutting. 36" is biggest I've seen on an X with no SAS.

thanks, how does that pml effect the ride quality?? and will the steering still feel tight?

jordan

I've not noticed anything, really. Steering should not be any tigher or looser (unless it's worn out). You have to watch and not crank the torsion bars too far. That will the UCA (upper control arm) to rest on the bumpstop, which means no more down travel. That will make the ride really harsh and unsafe. Basically, don't raise more than 1.5 inches.

If anything, the ride might be just a little stiffer in the front, as the t-bars are preloaded a little more but again, I never noticed anything and if it's there then it must be minor.

Well, not pre-loaded....the bar has no idea how many degrees its turned...it has the same load on it no matter what orientation its at...its just that the STARTING point of the LCA is lower if the bar is twisted more....so it has the same weight on it...but from a new angle.



As for the tire sizes, 33's seem to be a practical limit, and a 2" BL takes care of it....the work to fit larger tires (35's) is significant compared to the almost nothing for 33's.

The PML can do about 1.5"...you are there when there's about 3/4" of upper bumpstop clearance...less than that...you are cranked up too high, and you won't be able to get a wheel alignment, it will ride crappy, etc...

...at 1.5" or less, rides/steers pretty much the same, just taller.

BTW - You want to remove the rear sway bar altogether...its useless, and has been breaking the rear passenger side shock...a stupid design.