There's a news story that came out today..looks like we don't have it so bad. While gas is around 3.53/Gal in NJ it's as high as 18.24/gal in some countries. Venezuala is paying 12 cents a gallon along w/ Kuwait and Said Arabia paying for .40 cents. What the hell is going on here?

To put it simply: WE'RE GETTING FUCKED!!!!

Venezuela has price controls because all the oil companies are state owned. They're losing money hand over fist on that proposition.

Their price controls on food are working well too. Grocery stores are empty because food can't be produced for the amount the government allows it to be sold, so they simply stop producing it.

I'll pay more for gas and not have a nut like Hugo Chavez running my country when given the choice.

You didn't do your research.

In those countries gasoline is subsidized by the government. They are also oil producing countries and members of OPEC. The oil industries are state owned.

Have you bothered to check what Europeans pay for gasoline?

Canada is a major oil supplier and it isn't that cheap up there.

Thats why I asked on here..I knew someone would know the deal behind this one..

Gas is still pretty cheap, all things considered.

Just got back from a week in Ireland. They're paying close to $10/gal over there once you do the conversion.

On the plus side, if you live anywhere with a Giant Eagle in the area you can get their Fuel Perks. Buy $50 in food and get $0.20/gal off your next fill-up at their stations. Since I wait to fill up until after the gas light comes on, I'm saving a minimum of $3.40/tank. And since you can stack them, I'm normally getting $0.40-$0.60/gal off.

The reason for that is Europeans tax the living shit out of gasoline.

European oil companies pay the same on the open market for gasoline as US oil companies.

If Americans want to blame anyone for the price of gasoline they need look no further than the US Congress.

In fact because of Congress, Americans can be expecting to pay MUCH MORE for gasoline in the future.

Because of the wording of the Energy Independence and Security Act passed last year, it looks like the environmental groups are going to either sue or force the US government from allowing us to buy oil produced from Canadian oil sands. The wording of the bill seems to disallow us from purchasing oil produced from "dirty" sources. All in the name of global warming.

Nancy Pelosi was just talking about new global warming legislation this week. If passed, the price of gasoline and everything else including home heating oil will increase drastically.

Plus we have presidential candidates like Obama talking about taxing oil company profits. No one mentions that government makes more on oil company revenues than even the oil companies. That tax would add at least another 50 cents or more to the price of a gallon of gas.

I won't even bother to mention the fact that there is tons of oil right here under US soil which Congress and their special interest allies have for years prevented us from extracting. Therefore increasing our reliance on foreign sources of oil.

Members of Congress are allowed to lease cars, all at taxpayer expense. The insurance, gas, tags, and everything is paid for by the taxpayers. That is a "perk" of being a member of the House of Representatives. They don't give a fuck what the price of gasoline is.

If you are pissed of at the price of gasoline. Complain to Congress. This shit has been going on for years and it is only going to get worse.... all because of Congress.

Exactly. I'm tired of the news stations coming up with the "you think YOU have it bad" argument. It's complete BS. You can't compare the two.

Find another country that has a tax that is equal to ours and THEN compare.

I'd say it's the public's fault, too. Not ALL of the public...but some of it, specifically those infected with NIMBY syndrome. Build some more refineries, asses!

This is certainly part, but not all of it. A bigger issue is that we're talking about an item with limited supply - and we've based much of our economy on it. Allowing legislative fixes to market problems is pretty much always going to fail.

One interesting solution, just in the development stages, on this website .

It's only limited because we are placing artificial limitations ourselves. Hmmm... Congress.

OPEC also plays with the laws of supply and demand with their production level games.

Quote:

One interesting solution, just in the development stages, on this website .

That is a very interesting idea.

It certainly beats the completely asinine idea of food based biofuel. Another idiotic idea with Congressional involvement.

Madman, you serious? That would be so retarded, even thinking about it makes my head hurt. And to think, these people who support this are also the same that claim to really care about the poor. What a joke. Have some fun and read some of the blogs from the Daily Camera website ( web page ) the liberal Boulder newspaper; there are actually people advocating higher gas taxes to reduce global warming. These people are nuts.

I'm dead serious. Serious as a heart attack. I was just reading about it earlier in the week. I'll look for the link.

The people that claim to care about the poor unfortunately don't give a rat's ass about the poor. It's about control. Besides, more poor people mean more government and government control is required. Isn't that the real goal?

We are on the road to serfdom my friend.

On a side note... what asshole politician always says the phrase "my friend"? He also supported raising gas prices(taxes) for "global warming".

Here is a couple of links on the subject mine man...

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080416/COMMENTARY/982402072/1012

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/04/30/5427331-sun.html

That one made me laugh MM.

I will do some searching and see what I can find about the tar sands stuff. Can't be true, just can't be... I trust you, but that would be... well, I can't think of a better word than retarded.

I think it's more than just control; it's anti-development, anti-growth. These people are like the Amish, they want to freeze time, no more development, leave the third world in poverty. As long as they can still drive their little POS prius and drink expensive wine, they don't care at all and never will.

Ah...you slam the Amish. You'd never catch an Amish person in a Prius.

I'm sure you are familiar with the web site MineWeb.

They had a recent article about the tar sands and Congress intentionally fucking things up...

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page38?oid=50551&sn=Detail

Even the Arabs are talking about it....

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=6§ion=0&article=108556&d=4&m=4&y=2008

Unfortunately, you won't hear the Nightly news with Katie Couric or Brian Williams EVER telling the American public how much their own Congress is fucking them over.

Quote:

I think it's more than just control; it's anti-development, anti-growth. These people are like the Amish, they want to freeze time, no more development, leave the third world in poverty. As long as they can still drive their little POS prius and drink expensive wine, they don't care at all and never will.

It's all about control. If you can control energy, you control the nation, it's wealth, and almost every single aspect of people's lives.

California recently wanted to pass a law where people would have to have thermostats hooked into a government network where the government could control the heat and temperature of your home. According to the thinking of those politicians, if the temperature went higher than they believed you should have it, a fine would have been levied.

Thankfully the idea never made it out of committee in the CA legislature, but ideas like this will be back and back with more force the next time around.

It's all about control. Don't ever believe otherwise. It's also about weakening the country too.

I'm amazed no one has mentioned the falling dollar .

And yeah, sure it's congress. If that was true, the oil company's would be hurting. They\'re doing okay

Also.. no one mentions how much in taxes the oil companies pay every year. I believe I read that Exxon pays more in taxes than the lower 50% of US citizens combined. That equals around 30 billion in taxes for one oil company. Good for them they are making profits.

Congress sucks. (or any career political person for that matter)

But you are comparing corporate taxes to individual taxes.

If my company gets taxed higher, I'll just pass those costs along to the customers. I can't do that with my personal income tax.

(Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the upper 50% pay in income tax?)

Here are the number that I found:

According to the Office of Tax Analysis, the U.S. individual income tax is "highly progressive," with a small group of higher-income taxpayers paying most of the individual income taxes each year.

# In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.

# The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.

# Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.

Gotta love socialism.

I am just pointing out that they are not just making money and nothing more. With all those profits come higher taxes.

I blame Congress and energy speculators more for the current price of fuel than big oil.

More info on the people contributing the most taxes..

You might be suprised.


The IRS data below include all of the 132.6 million tax returns filed in 2005 that had a positive AGI, not just the returns from people who earn enough to owe taxes. From other IRS data, we can see that 90.6 million of the tax returns came from people who paid taxes into the Treasury. That leaves 42 million tax returns filed by people with positive AGI who used exemptions, deductions and tax credits to completely wipe out their federal income tax liability. Not only did they get back every dollar that the federal government withheld from their paychecks during 2005; but some even received more back from the IRS. This is a result of refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit, which are not included in the aggregate percentile data here.

Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI, those taxpayers with an AGI of $145,283 or more in 2005 constituted the nation's top 5 percent of earners. To break into the top 1 percent, a tax return had to have an AGI of $364,657 or more. These numbers are up significantly from 2003 when the equivalent thresholds were $130,080 and $295,495. Top incomes in 2005 are also continuing to surpass the peak they reached in 2000. At the height of the boom and bubble, $313,469 was the threshold to break into the top 1 percent, and then it fell to $285,424 in 2002 only to finally recover fully last year.

God.. I feel like NYMadman cutting and pasting all this crap..

Edit. Here is where I got my quotes http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/250.html

True (and I don't disagree about the speculators at all).

But those profits they made - the 30 Billion...is AFTER taxes. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any individual who even comes close to a fraction of that. All the richest people (namely Gates and Buffett) are getting their worth on paper only. They aren't profiting those billions.

Who cares how much profit they make. Since when is it any of your business? Since when is it any of the business of any politician? Since when is "profit" a dirty word?

If oil companies made $30 billion in profits, that means they paid far in excess of $30 billion in taxes.

Plus, those profits go to pay shareholder dividends and the bulk of the money is re-invested back into the business to develop oil and natural gas resources. You think it is cheap to pull oil and gas from the ground or the ocean?

Since 1992 the oil industry has invested $1.2 trillion of those profits you people complain about back into oil and gas development. That's TRILLION with a "T".

If they didn't have that money to constantly re-invest back into the business, who would be doing that investment to make sure the oil kept flowing? The government?

You people believe and repeat any type of populist, bullshit, socialist rhetoric any candidate throws in your direction without giving it any further thought.

Politicians treat the public like idiots. That doesn't mean you have to make an effort to prove them correct.

Some more realism as compared to the bullshit being espoused.....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977019142563957.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks

Read the whole thing. For an industry that has a little over 8% return, they get beaten over the head a lot for sheer propaganda reasons.

And the idiots buy it.

FYI, Oil Sands:
“Second only to the Saudi Arabia reserves, Alberta's oil sands deposits were described by Time Magazine as "Canada's greatest buried energy treasure," and "could satisfy the world's demand for petroleum for the next century".

Oil Sands are deposits of bitumen, a molasses-like viscous oil that will not flow unless heated or diluted with lighter hydrocarbons. They are contained in three major areas beneath 140,200* square kilometres of north-eastern Alberta - an area larger than the state of Florida, an area twice the size of New Brunswick, more than four and half times the size of Vancouver Island, and 26 times larger than Prince Edward Island. However, only about two per cent of the initial established resource has been produced to date.”

Link to Info

Alberta has no provincial sales tax and is the fastest growing province economically and socially in Canada.
In comparison Ontario has an 8% sales tax.
New Brunswick residents are taxed 13% by the province.

A typical McDonald’s employee in Fort MacMurray, Alberta makes $14.75/hour.
A typical McDonald’s employee in Cornwall, Ontario makes $7.75/hour ($8.75/hour as of March 1).

Ottawa, Ontario: regular gas $1.19/liter = $4.52/Gallon

Calgary, Alberta: regular gas $1.25/liter = $4.75/Gallon

Montreal, Quebec: regular gas $1.34/liter = $5.01/Gallon

New York, NY: regular gas: $3.77/Gallon

Los Angeles, CA: regular gas: $3.75/Gallon

You think YOU’RE being fucked by your government?!

Not quite related, but interesting...

Just one example.

There's tons of information on this, just look...

My brother and I plan on building one of these contraptions, but in the plans it specifically stated that using it on a modern (Computer controlled) engine would not do any good. I guess the computer messes with the mixture and negates the gains. I have an old Baja that we'll use, if we get a good working setup.

Anyways, if we could find more ways to reduce consumption without hurting the environment or Economy, I'm for it, but still skeptical as people are just going to jump into the latest Tornado or "Performance Chip" (Resistor) without doing all the research to see if there is any benefit.

I'm pretty sure that most of those sorts of things are bogus. If it's some random plans from the intratubes, I'd avoid it unless I can get some sort of viable and actually scientific proof.

I just wanted to clear up some confusion on basic economics in the oil industry.

1. Oil supply is controlled by a cartel (OPEC). This is a group of oil producers who get together and determine how much they will produce in order to control the price through supply manipulation. They are acting almost like a monopoly, except that they control the price by supply rather than directly setting the price. These countries could increase oil production, but why would they increase supply to drop the price to $28/barrel when people are willing to pay $120/barrel?

2. The supply of oil has not changed significantly since the start of the Iraq war. The current prices are largely being driven by speculation-people are buying oil futures with the expectation that the price tomorrow will be higher than the price today. It becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy through their continued investments. This market is based more upon fear than supply/demand and rational thought.

3. Exxon Mobile had record company profits of 10.9 billion dollars in the first quarter of this year. They paid over 29 billion dollars in federal taxes during this same 3 month period. This means that they only made $1 for every $3 they paid in taxes. And we want to tax them more? It was mentioned earlier that companies pass new costs on to the consumer. Taxing oil companies' profits will NOT drop the price of gasoline, they will pass this increased cost to the consumer--you and me.

4. If you look at Exxon's filings with the SEC, only 8% of their income came from gasoline sales and refining. 92% of their income came from selling oil for other petroleum based products such as plastics. That's right, they made more money from that water bottle you're drinking out of than that last gallon of gas you bought. Gasoline is just the scapegoat.

Oil companies make a lot of money. But, they pay a lot of taxes. The price that you are paying at the pump is not controlled by Exxon, as Hillary would have you believe, but by OPEC and the speculators who are buying oil futures today.

Gasoline is also made more expensive because of these fucking different "blends" that the refineries have to create.... in very few refineries.

One state has a different blend than the neighboring state. It's bullshit.

We also have states like California that also want to force the automakers to make cars for that state to different mileage and emissions standards than the federal standards. If that is allowed to happen, think what that will do to the price of vehicles.

It's almost like in the 1800's when railroads were first invented. Different and competing companies at first used different gauge tracks. People realized the lack of a nationwide standard would impede and inhibit growth.

To Jorge's point, the devalued dollar is doing a lot to impact this too since that's the currency used by oil markets.

Bullshit like this tax credit and bailing out bad lenders and stupid borrowers is making that much worse too.

Point taken and as I said, I'm skeptical, but hopefull

I'll let everyone know when I get something worth posting, but until then...

Now where can I get one of those Performance Chips?

The housing bailout is another problem that Congress is getting involved with that will ultimately have unintended consequences that the taxpayers will again be fucked.

There are very few sentient, intelligent beings in Congress and the majority of our society's problems are because of Congress.... and the consequences of their actions.

They are voting on more housing bailout this week I believe. The taxpayers will be in the bag for well in excess of an additional $300 billion in bad mortgages plus everyone who owns 401K's and mutual funds will be taking a hit because the market is going to have to absorb billions of dollars in losses mandated by Congress.

The devalued dollar and the futures market on oil is also being manipulated by overseas and international interests because of politics.

We are now in the age where international entities can manipulate the US economy and maybe even have a dangerous amount of control over it than we do ourselves.

If I paint a wooden nickel silver... will you buy it for a nickel?

OPEC only controls about 50% of the world's oil supply. (That's NOT saying they don't have the power to influence it.)



Not to mention the lack of refinery capacity. That being said, it's not quite as easy as your explanation. Institutions and investors are buying oil (and other commodities - like Gold going higher in price) as a hedge against the falling dollar. If the dollar starts rebounding, watch the oil prices drop.



You might want to explain that. Only about $10 billion of those taxes were income taxes.



Which makes one wonder...when will we start seeing glass returnable bottles again?

Yes, they pay a lot of taxes...but it's not much more than the taxes the richest people pay. Highest personal income tax is what, 38%? Exxon paid 41%.

Who's fault is that? Who prevents this country from building refineries? Who prevents this country from building more nuclear power plants? Who prevents EVERYTHING regarding energy and growth?

You are a member of the primary impediment to all of these things.

Quote:

You might want to explain that. Only about $10 billion of those taxes were income taxes.

You are wrong on the income tax issue. Plus oil... or gasoline and other petroleum products are taxed by the government at varying and multiple stages. One of the largest being at the retail level where multiple governments add up to a total rape of the consumer at the retail level.

Quote:

Which makes one wonder...when will we start seeing glass returnable bottles again?

You won't see that. The environmentalists and the nanny state they control will not allow it. Some child might cut themselves on a glass bottle.

Quote:

Yes, they pay a lot of taxes...but it's not much more than the taxes the richest people pay. Highest personal income tax is what, 38%? Exxon paid 41%.

Rich people rarely pay all of their income through income taxes. WTF?

Unless they are idiots, almost none of it is taxed as income.

Income taxes are for employees. People who work for other people and punch a clock.

Rich people's income streams come in the form of capital gains and some of it is even insulated from taxes through trusts and even fraudulent non-profit entities.

Madman-

For some people, individuals and companies cannot pay enough taxes. I heard a lady on the radio say that she would pay 75% of her income to the government if we had free healthcare.

People like you and me don't like income taxes. We are getting taxed for being productive members of society. Being a business owner, I get taxed twice; once for my company profits, and yet again on any personal income from the company.

I am much more inclined to pay a consumption tax like the gasoline tax because 1) I am consuming a good and 2) I consume the roads, the traffic lights, and the road maintenance workers so I can get about in a timely manner. I am strictly opposed to an income tax, and I am especially oppposed to taxes being taken from one consumption and used in another area (i.e. property taxes being used for anything else besides public education.)

Sure, but you'd have more then 5 cents into it, so you'd be the one getting screwed.

BTW - Complaining about the price of anything is a little mute. If you need it, you'll buy it at whatever market value it is. If you don't have the money for it, you'll either borrow it, or save it. OR you'll get it through ill gotten means. Either way it is the same in the end, won't effect anything.

Also, I think that "Big Oil" is getting screwed by the masses of whom depend on them for their livelyhood and standard of living.

Let's say it together, "Class Envy" is all this is chocked up to.

Too bad gas isn't cheaper and won't be in my forseeable future as I have a '70 Barth Motorhome I would love to be able to use, but it hasn't been registered since gas was about $1.20. (IIRC) It's cheaper to drive someplace and then rent a room. :rolleyes:

Guess I just have to make more money, but stay under the threshold of paying for everyone else.

Also, I'm surprised I've never seen this Car Running on Water thing here, when there was so much debate on the Plane V. Treadmill. Should be good for at least 100 posts. When/If I can make something that works and can prove it, I'll create the thread and watch the sparks fly.

They made $30 billion in profit, but that was only a 10% profit, so they didn't do too well relative to their size and investments. They are just such a massive company. Their stock prices fell when their profits were announced.

You can paint a hell of a lot of wooden nickels with a can of spray paint. I wouldn't bet that the face value would be less than the cost of the can of paint.

I think you may be buying a painted wooden nickel with this water kit idea for better gas mileage.

Quote:

Let's say it together, "Class Envy" is all this is chocked up to.

I'm getting very tired of this "class envy" being pushed by certain politicians and the media.

I'm getting even more tired of the public buying into it.

Maybe it is true that this country is finished. If the people of this country think they have a right to what someone else has just because that other person has more... then we are finished. That is not what America used to be about. The sense of entitlement without having earned the right to be entitled is dangerous and destructive.

That is all I hear from the scum running to lead this country.

Quote:

Also, I'm surprised I've never seen this Car Running on Water thing here, when there was so much debate on the Plane V. Treadmill. Should be good for at least 100 posts. When/If I can make something that works and can prove it, I'll create the thread and watch the sparks fly.

It's a scam. Don't bother.

Oh... by the way.... I almost forgot...

North Carolina and Indiana...



May 6, 2008.... VOTE HILLARY CLINTON

The lesser of two large evils

Since when am I a member of that? If you read my post earlier, I said it's the NIMBY crowd.

Prove me wrong.



Wasn't talking about the other taxes.

[/b]

I really wouldn't doubt that. I assume as of right now, it's still cheaper to do plastic than glass.



I was merely pointing out the tax bracket.

Moot...not mute.

You're a Democrat and Democrats are the LARGEST impediment to energy independence in this country.

Special interests such as the radical environmentalists are just one of the many destructive special interests that OWN the Democrat Party.

When you smell NIMBY, you are smelling Democrat shit for the most part drifting back in your face. Especially wealthy Democrats.

There is nothing to prove to you.

Oil companies have a lower margin than many other businesses. Then their products are taxed to death at varying and numerous intervals during the consumer chain.

What the fuck else is there to talk about? The most highly regulated and taxed industry in the US is the oil and energy business.

That is ALL the fault of liberals. People like you.

Democrats have a plethora of policies they want to institute that will make energy even far more expensive.

Where the fuck is the public debate on all of this? It's non-existent. That is one of the biggest shames and scams in the history of this country.

It never seems convenient for liberals to talk about all the taxes levied on a commodity used and needed by the public on a daily basis. It might make someone think liberals are taking advantage of the public.

Who cares about tax brackets? Smart rich people aren't included in tax brackets.

The only people who care about tax brackets are people who pay income tax rates and withholding taxes.

Rich people don't pay "income tax" rates. They are not that stupid. That is why they are rich.

When asshole socialist politicians of your party talk about taxes, they are talking about taxing people who pay income taxes.... not rich people.

There are too many idiots in this country. There is too much corrupt media who don't educate the public as to the difference.

---------------------

Oh... by the way.....

North Carolina and Indiana...



May 6, 2008.... VOTE HILLARY CLINTON

The lesser of two large evils

Get a motorcycle or something from these guys: http://www.teslamotors.com. Arguing about gas prices is a lot like arguing about horse buggies. Well, at least it will be in 10 years or so.

Yeah sure.

The federal government spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year giving money to radical environmental groups.

If that money had been spent giving it to companies like Tesla, we may have already had a viable electric car.

You just don't get it. The policy of the Democrat Party is for there to be no viable energy policy.

If we had a viable alternative energy policy... almost the entire Democrat Party energy policy platform would be destroyed and revealed as fraudulent.

There is no advantage to current Democrat Party and environmental lobby policies as far as actually creating an alternative source of energy.

They lose their political power if anything like that came into being.

Political power lies in problems with energy. Not solutions.

Some seem to misunderstand profits vs. gross revenue. Profits are what are left over after taxes and all other expenses are taken away from the gross revenue (the total amount of dollars the company takes in).

I don't want to look back at the Exxon statement for Jan-Mar of this year, but their gross revenues were around $50 billion. After they paid 29.3 billion in taxes (only 10 billion was income tax, the other 20 million came from other royalties and penalties installed by your local Senator), and then took out other expenses, they were left with 10.9 billion in profits.

Their return on investment was 8.3% for the period. All industries in the U.S. averaged a 7.8% return on investment. So, Exxon was slightly above average in their return on investment, but they are statistically in line with every other industry in the nation. We must conclude that they are not profit-gouging, nor making "excessive" profits despite the rantings of Hillary and Obama. Those two do not understand Economics 101.

How many on this forum would be happy with an 8.3% return on the dollars you put into the stock market? I suppose most would fire your stock broker if that's all you got back, yet that's exactly what Exxon got.

Oh yeah...I forgot..... by the way.....

North Carolina and Indiana...



May 6, 2008.... VOTE HILLARY CLINTON

The lesser of two large evils

X and Halo +1 for an explanation that makes perfect sense to everybody. Everybody. Right...?

MM, thanks for taking the bait! Love it!

Original post:

Get a motorcycle or something from these guys: http://www.teslamotors.com. Arguing about gas prices is a lot like arguing about horse buggies. Well, at least it will be in 10 years or so.

Your reply starts with:

Yeah sure.

The federal government spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year giving money to radical environmental groups.

If that money had been spent giving it to companies like Tesla, we may have already had a viable electric car.

You just don't get it. The policy of the Democrat Party is for there to be no viable energy policy...

WTF? Can you do all of us a fucking favor and point to a logical and proven link between buying a motorcycle or looking at http://www.teslamotors.com and the mother fucking Democratic party? You see, most of us on this board know that you hate Democrats. Most of us don't give a shit about that too. But that is not the point. Stop brining you fucking _I_hate_Democrats_shit because it is fucking annoying as hell. Can you have a post where you don't blame Democrats for every fucking thing that happened to this country? Can you do all of us a favor and at least pretend that there are some aspects of this life that are not being fucked in the ass by some angry Democrat? I mean, sheesh, people have political views and this is understandable, but replying to every single post with something related to politics is getting hella annoying.

Rank on, mother fucker, rant on.

[/b]

So, you are a Republican. McCain is a Republican. So you must support what he thinks.

That's basically what you are trying to pin on me. Not all Democrats are NIMBY people.



Nice. COMPLETELY avoid my request. You didn't talk about income tax at ALL.



Funny. I was comparing income tax to income tax. And you say it's not convenient. You would rather me compare Exxon's COMPLETE tax burden with an individuals income tax? Talk about an unfair comparison...

[/qb]

Must not include many conservatives then...because they seem to be the biggest whiners on taxes.

(My apologies to conservatives...I don't think you are stupid...but that was just too easy.)



I tell you what Madman...when you can prove I'm a registered Democrat (I'm not), I'll accept that argument.

Introducing that all-new Schaeffer X9. Re-designed from the ground up with all safety features STANDARD!

I think you mean billion. :-D

I think with the market the way it is right now, a LOT of people would be happy with 8.3%.

Moby,

I don't want to be rude, but even a weekend trader would know that 8.3 percent is nearly 4 percent below the market average for a medium risk portfolio. If you are happy with 8.3 percent return on your investment, you might as well buy no-risk bonds or keep you money in the bank. That's hardly enough to keep pace with inflation this year and you'd be better off consuming that money than saving or investing it at such a low rate of return. Hell, my portfolio is up almost 25 percent in the last 12 months even though I have stock in major companies that have been losing value for a while now. I just diversify, look for up and comers, and I don't bail when a couple of stocks drop a few dollars.

Show me consistent funds that make 12+% this year and I'll be first in line!

Make me second.

The fact that this guy is making it sound like it's 'common knowledge' that 12% ROI is the floor just furthers my initial impression that he's just using this thread for bragging/lying.

It's the internet, so I'll side with the second option.

And now for a goofy picture:

Hey asshat... the energy policies in this country ARE politics and political. Surely even someone as stupid as you can see that.

Democrats aren't the only problem either. Liberal Republicans are part of our problem. People like McCain are part of the problem.

My point was that liberals for the most part are NIMBY people. Yes, some Republicans are NIMBY liberals too.

Who's talking about income tax. You asked about the oil companies.

They operate at a fairly low profit margin compared to overall revenues.

But they make good propaganda targets for political demagogues.

I don't know where you get that Moby. I'm not the one who originally brought up individuals income taxes. That was you. We were talking about the oil companies.

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Must not include many conservatives then...because they seem to be the biggest whiners on taxes.

Taxes in this country are TOO HIGH.

Even corporate tax rates are too high. We have the second highest corporate rate in the developed world. We are going to be losing out to other countries unless we do something about it.

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I tell you what Madman...when you can prove I'm a registered Democrat (I'm not), I'll accept that argument.

You're not a Democrat?

Well, you certainly are a doctrinaire liberal. Who would have guessed you're not a Democrat.

You two are right, there are not many mutual funds that are making money right now. I said that the average roi is 12 percent in the market. That statement is correct if you are willing to keep your money in the market. The market rewards patience. You may have a roi of -6 percent this year, 16 percent next year, and 26 percent the year after when the market rebounds.

Here is a fund that will probably give you 12 percent this year. The 1, 3, 5, and 10 year returns are excellent.

CGM Focus Fund-a small cap fund

http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=MUTF:CGMFX

Riddle me this, then, Batman...er...Madman...

1. I think we SHOULD build nuclear plants.
2. I have no problem with corporal punishment in schools.
3. I think ALL states should follow my home state of Indiana with photo ID requirements for voting (they have the strongest law, btw).
4. I have no problem with limiting the time someone is on welfare.
5. I have no problem with people owning guns.
6. I believe in near absolute freedom of speech.

Yeah...those are ALL die-hard liberal views, aren't they?

Come on bro... or should I say "my friend" in 'McCainspeak'....

You're always on the left side of most issues. It doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you wrong on most issues.

While I appreciate your willingness to allow us to keep our guns and not restrict our freedom of speech... (the US Constitution not withstanding).... many of your comrades on the left do not feel the same way.

However, I've always thought there was hope for you Moby.