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#214482 - 10/09/03 07:32 PM Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
What does everyone think regarding what has been done and what has not been done in the two years following the worst attack ever committed on U.S. soil?

An attack that was perpetrated by Middle Eastern Muslim terrorists against our country. An attack that not only targeted our military and leadership, but also primarily targeted our civilian population and symbols of our country's engineering and financial prowess.

It will be a sad day for me. Not only because of the magnitude of the attacks, but also on a personal level. I knew some of the people who were murdered that day. A former bartender (fireman), two guys from my neighborhood (firemen), a grammar school friend (fireman), and at least a dozen former colleagues from working as a consultant for Marsh & McLennan (many happy times socializing and many beers and many laughs). Even more people from that company who were computer users I knew on a passing level. Marsh lost over 250 people that day.

I didn't personally know any of the police lost that day.

I can still vividly remember the shock of seeing photos of the faces of some people I would see on an almost daily basis riding the express bus into Manhattan published in my local newspaper.

I loved The World Trade Center and the whole complex. I loved some of those people like they were my own brothers and sisters.

I'm not happy with a lot that has transpired since 9-11. I'm especially not happy with the way a lot has not changed for the better since 9-11.

I'm still just as angry about the whole thing as I was on Sept. 12......


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#214483 - 10/09/03 07:57 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
XOC Offline
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Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Let's see...

Terrorists attack the USA.
USA increases security for about a year.
USA then decreases security and kicks back, then attacks a country known to have terrorist ties.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again tomorrow.
_________________________
nom nom nom

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#214484 - 10/09/03 08:11 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
The world will never be the same, So many things changed tduring those 40 minutes on Sept 11.

I too think it will happen again in some way shape or form.....
_________________________
Sharam can have my sister

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#214485 - 10/09/03 08:22 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
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Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by xoc:

I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again tomorrow.
Neither would I. But not for the reason you mentioned.

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#214486 - 10/09/03 08:34 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'd say I was pretty happy with the decision to pursue terrorists seriously after 9/11.

While I support the troops, I can't help but question the logic that placed them in Iraq. This may be the biggest blunder in US history, and it sets a bad precident (America as an aggressor).

From a post 9/11 point of view, it seems that our homeland security, our fire departments, our police departments, and related support services (including the power grid) would have been much better served if the $87 billion (and previous expenditures) was spent here at home instead of Iraq.

I hope this 9/11 is uneventful, and that the current administration will again ponder the lessons learned on that day.

As for Iraq, since we're there, I hope the vast majority of Iraqi people appreciate the efforts of our troops. If a successful, peaceful nation could emerge there, all might be worth while.

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#214487 - 10/09/03 08:54 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by retro:
If a successful, peaceful nation could emerge there, all might be worth while.
No a chance in hell that will ever happen, The country is made up of fractions, clans, tribes and Muslim fanatics, Like Afghanistan they will never conform to living in peace and accepting fundamental differences between race,religion etc. The only thing the western world can be happy about is that they do not have the ability to organise and carry out their true feelings on a mass scale.

Those who have the guns has the power....
_________________________
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#214488 - 10/09/03 09:17 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by retro:

While I support the troops, I can't help but question the logic that placed them in Iraq. This may be the biggest blunder in US history, and it sets a bad precident (America as an aggressor).

From a post 9/11 point of view, it seems that our homeland security, our fire departments, our police departments, and related support services (including the power grid) would have been much better served if the $87 billion (and previous expenditures) was spent here at home instead of Iraq.

I hope this 9/11 is uneventful, and that the current administration will again ponder the lessons learned on that day.

As for Iraq, since we're there, I hope the vast majority of Iraqi people appreciate the efforts of our troops. If a successful, peaceful nation could emerge there, all might be worth while.
Come on pal... in no way are we an aggressor. You watch too much CNN or Peter Jennings. Iraq was one of the best things we have done. My fear is that it will be fucked up by the current administration buckling under the pressure from our largely anti-American press and vocal appeasement crowd.

Too many years of appeasement and doing nothing about international terrorism led to 9/11 .... along with our insanely ridiculous visa programs, etc.

The mistake we made with Iraq was we didn't realize how fucked up the internal structure of the country was prior to the war. You can blame a lot of that on the UN. They were supposed to make sure all the money Saddam received over all those years of sanctions went to the people of Iraq in the form of food and infrastructure. It didn't and the UN never said a damn thing nor did a damn thing. Another mistake was not sending in enough troops.

Of course the other usual mistake we make is not clamping down on the other terrorist supporting nations like Iran and Syria. You can put much of the blame for this squarely at the feet of the U.S. State Deptartment. (The State Dept. also has a degree of culpability in the attacks of 9/11)

As far as domestic security. If we did the right things it would cost us almost nothing. The Dept. of Homeland Security is a joke. Pure smoke and mirrors. Why would you want to give them more money? We now have a state like California that will be giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens. In order to get these licenses these illegal alien criminals need a taxpayer ID number from the federal government. The feds give out these numbers to illegals who are here in violation of Federal Law. (WTF is this?... the feds encourage this shit in violation against their own laws...) Where the hell is The Department of Homeland Security on this issue? Where the fuck is Tom Ridge? What good are they if they don't enforce their own laws and actually aid and abet terrorists and criminals entering this country? Not much Homeland Security going on as far as I can see. The primary responsibility of the federal government is national security. What good are they if they don't fulfill their responsibilities and even enforce their own laws?

The 87 billion should go directly to the military. More troops, more weapons.

9/11 happened because we were asleep at the wheel. We obviously still are on the domestic front.

Iraq will turn out alright, but we must be much tougher with those countries helping the terrorist effort in Iraq. We also must be much tougher with the Iraqi's themselves. They don't feel very secure with the terrorist element walking amongst them. Iraq is not Germany after WWII. Stabilizing an Islamic country is no easy task. It doesn't take too many fingers to count the number of stable Islamic countries in the world (Maybe one).

With our current State Dept. and tendancy towards appeasement.... also let's not forget this buckling under pressure to allow a bigger UN presence. The UN means nothing but more appeasemnt, more terrorism, more anti-Americanism. A big mistake. I wonder how it will turn out. With UN involvement.... it will never turn out to anything but a disaster.

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#214489 - 10/09/03 09:41 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
gmaxis Offline
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Registered: 21/08/00
Posts: 2179
Loc: America's Finest city
Tomorrow is also my wife's birthday and she requested not to be treated special. I am not saddened that 9/11 happened two years ago. I am saddened EVERYTIME I think about it, not just every anniversary.

This is what I did since then...I studied to be an EMT and I applied to DMAT (Disaster Medical Assistance Team) which is under the Department of Homeland Security.

Maybe there's very little I can do to help improve homeland security, but I'm pretty sure I have a lot to offer when the next disaster strikes.
_________________________
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#214490 - 10/09/03 09:54 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Accasbel Offline
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Registered: 15/09/00
Posts: 1070
Loc: Chanhassen, MN USA
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
...I'm still just as angry about the whole thing as I was on Sept. 12......
i too wish that the evil act on 9/11 had never happened. let's not forget the pennsylvania and pentagon deaths - the destruction and innocent deaths do not stop in new york.

it is past time to be mad. it is time for creative thought, debate, and forgiveness. it is time to find another solution, one beyond killing another human being because that is easier than talking, forgiving, and changing root cause of hate.

would our friends and family that died on 9/11 want the resulting bloodshed on their souls? i know mine would not. hate is easy, and it is time to stop taking the easy way.
_________________________
lee@vl.net
Former member of Arizona Xterra Club
Live free. Dine well. Drink good beer.

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#214491 - 10/09/03 10:09 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Accasbel Offline
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Registered: 15/09/00
Posts: 1070
Loc: Chanhassen, MN USA
ny madman, where do you come up with this, rush limbaugh?

bush's post-invasion policy for afghanistan & iraq shows his myopia. he was way quick in stomping his foot and rooting out his evil and way toooooo slow in changing the environment that caused the evil in the first place. afghanistan - kick butt and secure kabul, but let everything else go to pot. iraq - kick butt and secure the oil fields, but let everything else go to pot.

teddy said to speak softly and carry a big stick. george seems to have forgotten how to speak. to the rest of the world he's no more than the bully-president.
_________________________
lee@vl.net
Former member of Arizona Xterra Club
Live free. Dine well. Drink good beer.

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#214492 - 10/09/03 10:21 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Accasbel:

i too wish that the evil act on 9/11 had never happened. let's not forget the pennsylvania and pentagon deaths - the destruction and innocent deaths do not stop in new york.
Evil act.... You're damn right it was. It was an evil terrorist act and the world is loaded with both evil and terrorists.

No one has forgotten the Pentagon or PA. The only thing that may have been forgotten probably requires a little reflection on your part.

Quote:
it is past time to be mad. it is time for creative thought, debate, and forgiveness. it is time to find another solution, one beyond killing another human being because that is easier than talking, forgiving, and changing root cause of hate.
Listen guy... is there something wrong with you? WTF are you talking about?... Creative thought... Forgiveness. FORGIVE WHAT?

Quote:
would our friends and family that died on 9/11 want the resulting bloodshed on their souls? i know mine would not. hate is easy, and it is time to stop taking the easy way.
I don't know how many of your friends and family were murdered that day. Only you can say what they may have have felt.

Plus you got some fucking nerve implying that any retaliatory strikes against "said" evil terrorists rest upon the souls of totally innocent victims. You are a sick fuck and thinking like yours only led to 9/11 occurring in the first place.

Everyone I know who died would have thought thinking like yours was nothing but the ramblings of a fool.

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#214493 - 10/09/03 10:42 PM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Accasbel:

ny madman, where do you come up with this, rush limbaugh?

bush's post-invasion policy for afghanistan & iraq shows his myopia. he was way quick in stomping his foot and rooting out his evil and way toooooo slow in changing the environment that caused the evil in the first place.
Let's hear your reasons for the environment that caused this "evil" in the first place.....

Take your time. No reason to be "way quick" about it. Think about your response. I wouldn't want some typical myopic "hate Bush" answer.

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#214494 - 11/09/03 05:10 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
MBFlyerfan Offline
Member

Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
I will never forgive or forget. We should be applying much more pressure to Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and even Pakistan, (which is where Bin Laden is rumored to be.)

We need more troops in Iraq, then we need a resumption of major combat operations. Enough of this waiting to let them shoot at our guys non-sense. Democracy needs to be put on hold, Marshal law needs to be established and all these Bathists, foreign terrorists need to be eliminated. Everyone seems to know that but the the State Department.

The State Department needs to be gutted and replaced with men and women of fortitude, not the liberal, appeasing, fearfull of what the world "thinks" undermining dim wits it seems to be filled with now.

Lastly, the US Government need to take their hands off the shoulders of Israel and let that dog hunt once and for all. Terrorist groups like Hamas, Al-Queda, etc do not want peace. Israel has the fortitude to get the job done and we should just let them get it done. There was never any roadmap because the Palestinians never had any intention of going down that road. They want to drive the jews into the sea, thats it.
The only thing these people respect is power and strength. They attacked us on 9/11 because they saw we never did anything after they had attacked us before; 1993 WTC, USS Cole, Somalia, etc etc etc. It became sort of a doctrine for terrorists in general, if you bloody our nose we will run home like babies. Well, I like the fact that we are starting to get it right and taking it to them. War of aggression my ass.

Here are my two new campaign slogans for the democratic party.

Vote Democrat:Making the World safer for terrorists.

If you like being taxed out the wazoo, If you like being overun by Illegal immigrants, if you like living in fear of terrorist attacks: Vote Democrat.
_________________________
Chirpa Chirpa Bockala!

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#214495 - 11/09/03 05:13 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Xterra Rick Offline
Member

Registered: 18/12/01
Posts: 839
Loc: Malta NY
Well...all I can tell you is that if it does happen again, it will not be here in downtown NYC today. Security down here is locked up tighter than a drum. I work in the building across the street from the sight and I needed to show id 7 times to get anywhere near the building.....Damn tourists! mad
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Blow me.

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#214496 - 11/09/03 06:50 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
off2cjb Offline
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Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
I will never forget what those cowardly bastards did to us here on our turf and our sites overseas. We need to quit the political correctness of war and finish the job.
I don't care how many sissy-mary liberals we have to hurt to get the job done either. I don't care how many innocent bystanders get killed in the process. The job needs to be done. It needs to be done by dirty little men no one wants to talk about.
Yes, we need to clean up Saudi Arabia first and foremost. Then Syria and Pakistan.

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#214497 - 11/09/03 07:02 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Accasbel Offline
Member

Registered: 15/09/00
Posts: 1070
Loc: Chanhassen, MN USA
good morning ny madman. go read the new testament, go read the koran. find an alternate to drumming up hate and more death.

i don't hate bush, i just do not trust him.
- has he taken care of osoma? NO
- has he taken care of al queida? NO
- has he made us safer? NO
- has he diverted troups away from the hunt for osoma and al queida? YES
- has he diverted money and resources away from the hunt for osoma and al queida? YES
- has he destroyed a country with no ties to 9/11? YES
- has he taken care of his oil friends? YES
- has he expanded the ability to spy on americans? YES
- has he made us paranoid? YES
- has he incited other free countries to mistruct the usa? YES

it is our job to question our leaders. it is our job to resist intrusions into our personal liberties. and it is our job to not let ourselves slip into the slime of hate used by others.

i refuse to perpuate the circle of hate and death.
_________________________
lee@vl.net
Former member of Arizona Xterra Club
Live free. Dine well. Drink good beer.

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#214498 - 11/09/03 07:49 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
MBFlyerfan Offline
Member

Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
- has he taken care of osoma? NO
- has he taken care of al queida? 3/4 of the way there
- has he made us safer? YES
- has he diverted troups away from the hunt for osoma and al queida? NO, all the same hunt.
- has he diverted money and resources away from the hunt for osoma and al queida? NO, all the same hunt.
- has he destroyed a country with no ties to 9/11? NO
- has he taken care of his oil friends? HOW?
- has he expanded the ability to spy on americans? YES, as the ACLU and all liberal pussies are trying to remove the abilty to spy on terrorists.
- has he made us paranoid? NO
- has he incited other free countries to mistruct the usa? WHO CARES.

I am glad you refuse to perpetuate the circle of hate and death. So why you are hugging your tree and turning the other cheek, the terrorists will still be perpetuating that circle without you.

Liberals will never understand that the only thing these evil people understand is a giant proverbial foot up thier ass. They are like the bully on the playground who gets what they want out of fear of violence to get all the kids lunch money. They will keep doing it until they take on someone tougher who beats em down. (FYI, we are not the bully)
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#214499 - 11/09/03 08:05 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
OffroadX Offline
Member

Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13692
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Quote:
Originally posted by gmaxis:
I am not saddened that 9/11 happened two years ago. I am saddened EVERYTIME I think about it, not just every anniversary.
There ya go!!! Just like I said last year, what's so significant about the fact that the earth has completed yet another trip around the sun since then? Nothing. Every day since 9/11/01 is no more or less significant.

Business as usual today,
Brent
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#214500 - 11/09/03 08:22 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
XOC Offline
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Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 17103
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
I don't care how many innocent bystanders get killed in the process. The job needs to be done. It needs to be done by dirty little men no one wants to talk about.
Wow, you sound just like a terrorist.
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nom nom nom

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#214501 - 11/09/03 08:29 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
GeorgiaXterra Offline
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Registered: 27/05/02
Posts: 1119
Loc: SXFC Home Office
nice to know that on a day like today we can still be an ass to each other when two years ago today we would ALL fight side by side to get the evil people that did this to us.
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#214502 - 11/09/03 08:30 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Bucweet X Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Houston TX
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
...I don't care how many innocent bystanders get killed in the process...
Kill'em all, let God sort'em out?
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When money talks, nobody pays any attention to the grammar.

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#214503 - 11/09/03 08:46 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
XOC Offline
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Registered: 16/08/00
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Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by GeorgiaXterra:
nice to know that on a day like today we can still be an ass to each other when two years ago today we would ALL fight side by side to get the evil people that did this to us.
We got the people who did this, they all died when the planes they hijacked hit their targets.

Since those 3000+ people died on 9/11/2001, 40,000 Americans have been murdered in America by Americans.
Why not focus on that problem (or the thousands of other problems plaguing this country) instead of driving around other countries, spending billions of dollars, looking for people to blame for our own lack of security ?
_________________________
nom nom nom

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#214504 - 11/09/03 08:50 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
babyX Offline
Member

Registered: 20/04/01
Posts: 2852
I don't think you truly can be rid of terrorists all together. You can squish the ones that are in power today, but you will never kill the thought process that leads up to the actions. So what if you kill Bin Laden? You don't think there's a few hundred young men that are chomping at the bit to fill his shoes?

I think the answer lies in tighter security within each country. Secure our borders (including those on the ocean), do background checks on everyone who buys a plane ticket -- whatever it takes. I'll subject myself to all the metal detectors and searches you've got if it means a safer flight or workday. I'll leave my fucking pocket knife at home. I'll take my ass to the airport four hours in advance if that's what it takes.

Killing Al Qaeda members won't fix the problem.
_________________________
Whatevs.

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#214505 - 11/09/03 09:07 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
GeorgiaXterra Offline
Member

Registered: 27/05/02
Posts: 1119
Loc: SXFC Home Office
Originally posted by xoc:
We got the people who did this, they all died when the planes they hijacked hit their targets.

i'm not going to say this or that about this or that BUT i will say about this statement is 'you're wrong". they were the bodies not the brains behind 9/11.

i'm the kind of person that just because someone said it or looked it up on the web does not mean it's true. i truly hope we all can and will remain safe, each and everyone of us.

greg
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Top 5 thing's you should know...
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(5) "there's people like GeorgiaXterra, that ruins it for everyone else..." Originally posted by Rickster43 2003

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#214506 - 11/09/03 10:36 AM Re: Sept. 11, 2001 ... Two years later...
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am no longer able to remain silent regarding all the talk about 9/11, terrorists, the USA, etc...

In my opinion, the "problem" is so much bigger than what we can discuss and solve in this forum. It goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years. The cycle of hatred and intolerance of people different from us has been around since the beginning of time.

There are so many reasons and theories as to what and how 9/11 happened: the USA was "asleep at the wheel", Osama bin Laden did it, the Israelis did it, it was God's wrath on the USA for embracing homosexuality and other immoralities, etc, etc, etc...

I personally believe that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is one of the main factors which resulted in 9/11. That entire situation has gotten out of hand. The Jews, backed by the USA, are fighting for a homeland and a right to exist in a land that the Muslims had occupied for hundreds of years. This land, and particularly the city of Jerusalem has religious significance, not only to Jews and Muslims, but Christians as well. If that is not a recipe for disaster, I don't know what is!

Until we are able to find a solution in the Middle East, I think we are in for more attacks. And remember: one man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter".

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