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#212821 - 08/07/03 09:20 PM Now what?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
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So now info Bush had given in his state of the union has been shown to be bullshit.

Guess Clinton isn't the only one who fibs a little...

I like this quote from Tom DeLay: "The overall reason that we went into Iraq is sound. The American people understand that and they support it."

Sorry...now what exactly WAS the reason? I could have sworn Bush said in his "48 Hours" speech:

"In the case of Iraq, the Security Council did act, in the early 1990s. Under Resolutions 678 and 687 -- both still in effect -- the United States and our allies are authorized to use force in ridding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a question of authority, it is a question of will."

GAME ON.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212822 - 08/07/03 10:11 PM Re: Now what?
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Yup and now he is committing to another Viewtman, Iraqi's killing American serivcemen in hit and runs, slowly turning the general population against them...where are the WMD?. Where is Bin Laden?. How is Afghanistan?.Africa's next.

How does he do it? How do they do it? Uncanny and immutable.
This is such a happening tailpipe of a party.
Like sugar, the guests are so refined.
A confidence man but why so beleagued?
He's not a leader he's a Texas leaguer.
Swinging for the fence. Got lucky with a strike.
Drilling for fear makes the job simple.
Born on third. Thinks he got a triple."
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Sharam can have my sister

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#212823 - 09/07/03 05:44 AM Re: Now what?
MBFlyerfan Offline
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Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
Prove to me he was lying, and not just going on the intelligence that the British supplied to him. Prove to me that he knew the British doctored the intelligence. Plus the fact that him saying the Iraqis were trying to buy Uranium in Africa was such an insignificant point in his speech. PLUS they already found a centifuge that Qusay had buried in a scientists backyard. There is only one reason to have a centrifuge, and only one reason I could think of why he had it buried. Read
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#212824 - 09/07/03 06:31 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
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Quote:
Originally posted by mbflyerfan:
Plus the fact that him saying the Iraqis were trying to buy Uranium in Africa was such an insignificant point in his speech.
This is what I find rather amusing. Bush makes a claim that was known to be false, and it was an "insignificant" point. But Clinton says, "I didn't have sexual relations" is cause for impeachment.

Which one involved American troops putting their lives at risk?
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212825 - 09/07/03 06:39 AM Re: Now what?
Andre the Giant Offline
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Registered: 28/06/01
Posts: 2081
Loc: Cape Girardeau, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by mbflyerfan:
[b]Plus the fact that him saying the Iraqis were trying to buy Uranium in Africa was such an insignificant point in his speech.
This is what I find rather amusing. Bush makes a claim that was known to be false, and it was an "insignificant" point. But Clinton says, "I didn't have sexual relations" is cause for impeachment.

Which one involved American troops putting their lives at risk?[/b]
Clinton's quote was under oath and he lied thus committing perjury which is defined as "The deliberate, willful giving of false, misleading, or incomplete testimony under oath."

Bush was not under oath and has not committed any crime. Furthur investigation will show if he "misled the public" but that, my friends, is a common occurance in politics. Bush is no different.
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#212826 - 09/07/03 06:40 AM Re: Now what?
2001frontier Offline
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Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
The question is, did he know it was false at the time? If, as far as he knew, it was true, then he did nothing wrong. This is nothing like Viet Nam. We were losing 500 soldiers a week in Viet Nam. Do you expect it to be easy, with no casualties? If so, you are a moron.
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#212827 - 09/07/03 07:16 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by mbflyerfan:
[b]Plus the fact that him saying the Iraqis were trying to buy Uranium in Africa was such an insignificant point in his speech.
This is what I find rather amusing. Bush makes a claim that was known to be false, and it was an "insignificant" point. But Clinton says, "I didn't have sexual relations" is cause for impeachment.

Which one involved American troops putting their lives at risk?[/b]
Clinton's quote was under oath and he lied thus committing perjury which is defined as "The deliberate, willful giving of false, misleading, or incomplete testimony under oath."

Bush was not under oath and has not committed any crime. Furthur investigation will show if he "misled the public" but that, my friends, is a common occurance in politics. Bush is no different.[/b]
Fair point. By I still say Bush's comment has more impact - and repercussions.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212828 - 09/07/03 08:02 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
This is nothing like Viet Nam. We were losing 500 soldiers a week in Viet Nam.
Exaggeration. 1966-1971, 72 months. In only 20 did casualties reach 500 in a *month*. That's not to take away from anyone, as each one is too much. Source

Quote:
Do you expect it to be easy, with no casualties? If so, you are a moron.
Yes, anyone who thinks that IS a moron.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212829 - 09/07/03 08:23 AM Re: Now what?
2001frontier Offline
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Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Oh sorry. Got my numbers mixed up a bit. Still my point was made. Thanks for the correction.
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Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#212830 - 09/07/03 08:28 AM Re: Now what?
MBFlyerfan Offline
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Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
I agree that it is a problem that the British admitted they doctored intelligence. I really think Bush believed what he was saying at the time of the speech. That being said, it has been proven the Iraqi's were trying to build a nuclear (no Lisa, its Nucular laugh )weapons program. If they didnt buy it in Africa, they purchased materials from somewhere. (France?)
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#212831 - 09/07/03 08:52 AM Re: Now what?
X-Yotaluva Offline
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Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Rural Hall, NC
Mobycat, Your time will come. 2008 will be the year. Until then grab your bwankie and get back in the corner for time out, you bwad bwoy. [Crybaby]

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#212832 - 09/07/03 08:56 AM Re: Now what?
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
It kinda proves a point, If he forged ahead with Iraq depending on an "Incorrect" source of intelligence does prove that there is something wrong?. why would could the US Government get the facts needed to make a qualified decision?.

Not saying that Saddam did not have to go, but who here sees a happy ending to the escalating shit that is going on over there?. will it end with the troops getting out of dogde with unfinished business as politics dictate Dubya needs to be re-elected and the price of dead serivcemen is too high?. Would you like to loose a borther or a sister for a cause that is obviously unwelcome and with out any longterm soloution?

We need to implode the UN building in NY, then can the whole concept of the UN and start fresh, share the responsibility of keeping the world stable (economically and politically). Create a World Law enforcement agency that has the powers to act quickly, bring shitheads to justice based on crimes against humanity and treaths to world peace and world stability.
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#212833 - 09/07/03 09:00 AM Re: Now what?
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
Do you expect it to be easy, with no casualties? If so, you are a moron.
You can get killed walking your doggie, there is a risk to everything. Risk is part of life BUT the coalation between risk and reward should and can be calculated. 60 some servicemen killed since "the end of the war" can you show me the reward?
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#212834 - 09/07/03 09:17 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by X-Yotaluva:
Mobycat, Your time will come. 2008 will be the year. Until then grab your bwankie and get back in the corner for time out, you bwad bwoy. [Crybaby]
Yes SIR! Right away SIR! [Sleep]

It's really sad if you sit there and believe everything that is told to you...by ANY administration...and don't question it. REALLY sad.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212835 - 09/07/03 09:19 AM Re: Now what?
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by X-Yotaluva:
[b]Mobycat, Your time will come. 2008 will be the year. Until then grab your bwankie and get back in the corner for time out, you bwad bwoy. [Crybaby]
Yes SIR! Right away SIR! [Sleep]

It's really sad if you sit there and believe everything that is told to you...by ANY administration...and don't question it. REALLY sad.[/b]
Read my sig . . .
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Does anybody remember laughter?

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#212836 - 09/07/03 09:31 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by mbflyerfan:
Prove to me he was lying, and not just going on the intelligence that the British supplied to him. Prove to me that he knew the British doctored the intelligence.
Blair does seem to be in a bit of hot water now. Question is, will it spill over (and would we ever find out if it was more involved, anyway).
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212837 - 09/07/03 10:32 AM Re: Now what?
number41 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 2906
Loc: Tucson, AZ
To me it just speaks to a trend if nothing else:

Afganistan
Iraq
Africa
.
.
.
Building new nukes?
North Korea?
Syria?

W. is a warwonger, plain and simple. By the time he is done cowboy upping the world this country is going to be in deep shit. Instead of giving us a color coded scared meter I would prefer if he would help America out a little, educate our kids, or help cure some diseases, or get homeless people jobs, SOMETHING.
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Small hands in third world countries make quality products.

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#212838 - 09/07/03 10:43 AM Re: Now what?
X-Yotaluva Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Rural Hall, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by number41:
To me it just speaks to a trend if nothing else:

Afganistan
Iraq
Africa
.
.
.
Building new nukes?
North Korea?
Syria?

W. is a warwonger, plain and simple. By the time he is done cowboy upping the world this country is going to be in deep shit. Instead of giving us a color coded scared meter I would prefer if he would help America out a little, educate our kids, or help cure some diseases, or get homeless people jobs, SOMETHING.
Maybe he should get homeless people homes and jobless people jobs? Who the hell is scared? and what the fuck is upping?

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#212839 - 09/07/03 10:50 AM Re: Now what?
X-Yotaluva Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Rural Hall, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

QUOTE]Read my sig . . .[/QB]
Boooooo!

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#212840 - 09/07/03 10:58 AM Re: Now what?
number41 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 2906
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by X-Yotaluva:
Maybe he should get homeless people homes and jobless people jobs? Who the hell is scared? and what the fuck is upping?
You ever hear the term "Cowboy Up?" Apparently it has something to do with being a cowboy. W. is a cowboy and its sending his little deputies all over the world -- anyway it was a joke, calm down little buckaroo.
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-Xavier

Small hands in third world countries make quality products.

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#212841 - 09/07/03 11:03 AM Re: Now what?
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by X-Yotaluva:
Quote:
[b]Originally posted by Graham:

Read my sig . . .
Boooooo![/b]
confused
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#212842 - 09/07/03 11:22 AM Re: Now what?
X-Yotaluva Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Rural Hall, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Quote:
Originally posted by X-Yotaluva:
[b]
Quote:
[b]Originally posted by Graham:

Read my sig . . .
Boooooo![/b]
confused [/b]
Forget it, carry on.

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#212843 - 09/07/03 03:11 PM Re: Now what?
FANOF5 Offline
Member

Registered: 22/04/03
Posts: 263
Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
What if we did not take down Saddam and he finished his weapons programs and used them, then Bush would have been skinned alive and blamed for the deaths that Saddam could have caused.I can understand why people do not agree with the Iraq issue, because yes, soldiers are still dying, but what else could we have done. Does anyone think that Saddam would ever had stopped doing what he did diplomatically?
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#212844 - 09/07/03 03:26 PM Re: Now what?
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
What if we did not take down Saddam and he finished his weapons programs and used them, then Bush would have been skinned alive and blamed for the deaths that Saddam could have caused.I can understand why people do not agree with the Iraq issue, because yes, soldiers are still dying, but what else could we have done. Does anyone think that Saddam would ever had stopped doing what he did diplomatically?
well the issue is what excatly DID he do?. No WMD has been found the alleged solicitation of material from Africa was bogus...was it a "wag the dog" scenario?. hard to say, I would say so far this whoel mess has not shown any great results, the dictator is still loose, Terrorism is alive and well yet lives has been lost and every man woman and child in the US owed about $2000 due to this. Could the money have been spendt on homeland security?. Healthcare and the likes?.
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Sharam can have my sister

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#212845 - 09/07/03 04:41 PM Re: Now what?
FANOF5 Offline
Member

Registered: 22/04/03
Posts: 263
Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
[b]What if we did not take down Saddam and he finished his weapons programs and used them, then Bush would have been skinned alive and blamed for the deaths that Saddam could have caused.I can understand why people do not agree with the Iraq issue, because yes, soldiers are still dying, but what else could we have done. Does anyone think that Saddam would ever had stopped doing what he did diplomatically?
well the issue is what excatly DID he do?. No WMD has been found the alleged solicitation of material from Africa was bogus...was it a "wag the dog" scenario?. hard to say, I would say so far this whoel mess has not shown any great results, the dictator is still loose, Terrorism is alive and well yet lives has been lost and every man woman and child in the US owed about $2000 due to this. Could the money have been spendt on homeland security?. Healthcare and the likes?.[/b]
good point. i am a little confused about owing the $2000 though confused
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