Zeitgeist - The Movie

Originally posted by MidnightX:
It's 2 hours long. Much better than 2 hours of crappy TV.

Originally posted by MidnightX:
Anyone seen this? I'm curious as to what you all think. We got sucked into this last night and afterwards we were convinced of everything. How can anyone dispute it?!?!

It's 2 hours long. Much better than 2 hours of crappy TV.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

In addition to attracting significant public interest,[8] it has been criticized for relying too heavily on anecdotal evidence,[10] and for using unidentified, undated, and unsourced video news clips, voice-overs, quotes, and book citations without page numbers.[11][12][13] In a piece entitled "Internet idiocy: the latest pandemic", the Arizona Daily Wildcat refers to the film as "internet bullshit", saying that "witty sayings, fear tactics and a cool, assertive air all enable them to convince the unwitting public of their points".[14] The Irish Times called it "unhinged" and accused it of offering nothing but "surreal perversions of genuine issues and debates."[8]

Jordyn Marcellus of The Gauntlet felt it was ironic that the film's viewers "have blindly followed the documentary without doing their own research." He states that, though the film is "well-edited and is truly compelling", it "glosses over inconvenient facts," uses "deceptive filmmaking" and that "for a film that rails against deception, there's a lot of deception implicit in its creation."[13]

On March 10, 2008, director Peter Joseph removed the "Clarifications" section from the film's official site, which The Gauntlet believed "alluded to dishonest filmmaking tactics that would otherwise help to discredit the film." It was replaced by a "Q&A Section". The new section responds to the film's critics stating that "All Part 1 'debunkers' do one or more of the following: (1) They attack/marginalize the messengers. (2) They do no real research. (3) They blindly ask 'Where are the 'Primary Sources'?' (4) They projected their own subjective interpretation of a piece of information by using 'semantic manipulation'"[13]

Originally posted by GrayHam:

Quote:

Originally posted by MidnightX:
[b]It's 2 hours long. Much better than 2 hours of crappy TV.

Wrong!

"Hell's Kitchen" and "Deadliest Catch" were on last night.

:p [/b]

Originally posted by TravelingFool:

Quote:

Originally posted by GrayHam:
[b]

Quote:

Originally posted by MidnightX:
[b]It's 2 hours long. Much better than 2 hours of crappy TV.

Wrong!

"Hell's Kitchen" and "Deadliest Catch" were on last night.

:p [/b]

[Thread=Hijacked]
Sig Hansen is the man.[/b]

Originally posted by NY Madman:
Come on Midnight. You certainly can't be saying you believe this garbage. I thought you were better than that. Stuff like this is the realm of the uninformed and ignorant. People driven by emotion without intellect.

Originally posted by MidnightX:

Am I dumb? Or are other people dumb for not opening their eyes? Unless someone gives me exact explanations for everything that movie claims, why shouldn't I believe it?!

Originally posted by MidnightX:
If someone showed me video of humanoid reptilian creatures trying to control our universe, I may believe it!

My head hurts.

Originally posted by MidnightX:

I dunno. I could argue this all day. I think you should actually watch the video and tell me how some of that stuff isn't true. It's not just people talking about conspiracy theories. It shows evidence and explains things!

My head hurts.

Originally posted by MidnightX:

I'm not saying I believe. But I haven't heard anything to prove otherwise! Why did certain things happen they way they did? They question things and provide evidence against what the American people are told. Where's the counter-evidence against the "conspiracy theorists". For all I know, they could be TRUTH theorists!

Sorry you're disappointed in me. I cannot go on living anymore if you think I'm dumb. :p

Originally posted by MidnightX:

Watch the movie and tell me all the scientists, engineers, physicists, witnesses, employees, etc. are all wrong and explain to me why. I'm open to what you have to say! I'm serious. "So serial."

There's an irony, though. For a film that tries so hard to tell the viewer to think about what they experience in the world and to reject authority, many people have blindly followed the documentary without doing their own research. This is why, more than anything, a hard look at the ideas of the film is needed.

Originally posted by trout lake tuna:

Madman, you sound like another lamb being led around with the rest of the flock. No one can force you to watch this movie, but until you do your previous comments on this topic are worthless!

Originally posted by trout lake tuna:

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy? Is it not possible that there are people out there that still have questions, and perhaps evidence that does not lend itself to popular belief?

Originally posted by NY Madman:
I don't have to watch the film. I know exactly what is contained in the film. There has been enough written about it and I am very familiar with all the conspiracy theories discussed in the film. Nothing contained within it is new. There is nothing contained within it that hasn't been widely written about and discussed. It just packages the material in a more clever manner.

But it is all the same old conspiracy theory nonsense. Usually bought and believed by a certain profiles of individuals.

And yes... certain types of people are more prone to conspiracy type theories than others. That is something else that has been written about and researched.

Originally posted by MidnightX:

Dude, you're totally telling me to research and form my own opinion, but you're basing YOUR opinion on other peoples' research and thoughts. I based mine on the research and thoughts of the people who made this movie. I think you should watch it and tell me how the stuff in it is NOT true. It presents evidence that questions/contradicts what the American people are told. And it's damn convincing!

Where are the movies that debunk the conspiracy theories? I wanna see one! I just want someone to prove otherwise!

Originally posted by NY Madman:
These are probably some of the whackiest conspiracy theories....

-Apollo 11 Moon Landings were faked by NASA

-September 11 was orchestrated by the U. S. government

-Barcodes are really intended to control people or are related to the "mark of the beast" as in Satanic

-Area 51 has aliens and a space ship

-Kentucky Fried Chicken makes black men impotent

-Princess Diana was murdered

-AIDS Is a Man-Made Disease

-Lizard-People run the world

-The Illuminati run the world

People who believe any of the above have serious problems.

Originally posted by PDXterra:

You forgot one though:

Pearl Harbor was intentional, we gave the Japanese our position, told them when to attack, where the ships were, etc. I always get a good laugh out of that one.

Originally posted by Stonecoldchavez:

We all know who killed JFK - It is a 'family thing'.

S.

Notes....

- Blank screen. Just hear an old man's voice talking a bunch of philosophical claptrap.

- Movies proceeds to show various images. An image of someone writing 1+1=2. More imagery depicting war, destruction, and 9-11, soldier funerals, etc. It seems to go on for an eternity but it is only at a little more than the 8 minute mark. All clearly intended to illicit an emotional response in the viewer and provide the foundation for an emotional investment in the material.

- We hear the voice of lunatic, major conspiracy theorist, fraud and scam artist, Jordan Maxwell, and he starts ranting and saying everything is a lie. Religious institutions were put there by the same all controlling powers that gave people their government and all other institutions. Basically everything is a conspiracy or part of one large conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Maxwell

Off to a real good start so far.

-- George Carlin voice over of one of his routines attacking religion.

Part I: The Greatest Story Ever Told

- Starts out by attacking Christianity and the old claim that the Christ story is the same "messiah" story in numerous ancient cultures. Claims the Christ story and other similar stories are based on the movement of the sun and other astrological and pagan beliefs.

- Compares statements from the New Testament to astrological ages and time frames. Claims other stories from the bible are the same stories in ancient pagan cultures.

- Claims Judaism and Christianity are based on ancient Egyptian pagan stories.

- They are basically saying Judaism and Christianity are based on complete bullshit.

- Voice over of Bill Hicks comedy routine making fun of evangelical Christians.

- Makes the claim that Jesus didn't even exist. Goes on to claim that Christianity was a political creation of the Romans to institute order.

- Now we get into deeper conspiracy shit because it claims that religion is the root soil upon which other myths for control can be built.

- Can't wait to see what they say about Islam.

The end of the religion segment and they never mentioned Islam. I guess the people that made this film wanted to keep breathing and their heads attached to their bodies. It's safer to attack Christianity.

-- Part II: All the World's A Stage

- Voice over of conspiracy theorist, lunatic moonbat, and member of "9-11 Truther movement" David Ray Griffin talking about myths.

- Lots of 9-11 television video footage. Outright claims with text on the screen that 9-11 was a "myth".

- Blatant lies are told that the hijackers were agents of the US government. Other lies such as there were no Muslim names on the plane passenger manifests (relies a lot on this asshole moonbat David Ray Griffin)

- Lunatic conspiracy theorist Alex Jones is ranting. This movie is nothing but the "9-11 Truther" movement bullshit.

- Movie claims some of the hijackers are still alive. (In reality some were misidentified. The man who sold them fake ID's was a also caught and charged, but no mention of that in the film)

- Lunatic and conspiracy theorist Michael Ruppert is on screen saying Bush and Osama Bin Laden are connected. He's basically playing conspiracy theory version of '6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon'. The screen identifies Ruppert as a "former police officer". It doesn't say he was forced out of the LA Police Department. (Ruppert wrote a book claiming Dick Cheney and Wall Street moguls were behind 9-11)

- Some more allegations of Bin Laden family members. No mention that Osama's father had 55 kids with numerous wives and that the family is one of the wealthiest families in the world.

- More conspiratorial bullshit about the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Same bullshit allegations as "Loose Change". All have been debunked.

This film is loaded with the slightest coincidences and circumstantial bullshit all put together to cater to the conspiratorial mindest. Idiots.

- It alleges that the crash in Shanksville, PA was a fraud.

- It goes back to the same old tired bullshit regarding the World Trade Center Towers. Makes claims they were intentionally exploded and demolished in a controlled demolition. All of it has long ago been debunked many times.

- Moonbat conspiracy theorist Dr. Steven Jones is on the screen claiming the towers were intentionally demolished. The screen says he is a physics professor. The viewers are not told he was fired from his job because of his 9-11 conspiracy lunacy.

Popular Mechanics did a good scientific series on all these WTC conspiracy theories. It was even worded so that the most conspiratorial of moronic mindsets could understand.

Originally posted by fog:

You need to say "lunatic" and "moonbat" more, it gives you more credibility. Go ahead and link or cite all of the parts that were "debunked", or should we all just take your word for it like usual?

The one thing I want the government I send my tax dollars to to show me is survelliance of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

They won't.
Why not? This is my country, I have the right to see it.

Until then, I will continue to be open minded and not a sheep like you.

Notes Continued......

- More bullshit claiming that Islamic terrorism is a fabrication. The government, according to them, fabricates it as a false enemy in order to increase their power.

- 9-11 conspiracy theorist and all around crackpot, Webster Tarpley, rants that terrorism is a government created myth.

- Former FBI agent turned nutcase, Ted Gunderson, rants that the FBI and American government are behind all terrorism including the 1993 WTC bombing and Oklahoma City bombing.

- The loons believe the London 7/7 train bombings were also the work of the British government

- Text on the screen blatantly claims the US government orchestrated the 9-11 attacks. One of the premises is that an "Arab guy" like Osama bin Laden in a remote area couldn't possibly do anything like that.

- Film claims 800,000 have been killed. Claims all the Bill of Rights has been subverted with that claim in text on the screen. Doesn't interview anyone whose rights have supposedly been subverted. No judges interviewed. No Supreme Court Justices interviewed who have ruled on these laws (maybe they are part of the conspiracy)

- Fade in to the famous "I'm as mad as hell" scene from the film "Network" with character Howard Beale

- Photos of people jumping from WTC towers and recorded messages of people trapped in the buildings

- They play excerpts of speech from racist anti-semite and Nazi supporter Charles Lindbergh from Sept. 11, 1941 railing against war (they don't tell the audience that Lindbergh was an anti-semite and Nazi sympathizer)

Part III: Don't Mind The Men Behind The Curtain

- This segment starts at 1:14

- Starts in on central bank conspiracy theories. Presents a lot of misinformation. Film doesn't mention the role of the treasury, securities, or anything else. Clearly designed for those ignorant of the monetary system.

- Film jumps to early 20th century and standard conspiracy theory that has been around for 100 years of prominent banking families creating the Federal Reserve for their own interests.

Here there is so much that the film leaves out because it knows most of the public is completely ignorant of the Federal Reserve System and how it operates.

The film lies and claims the Federal Reserve Act was rammed through Congress without the required votes.

- Claims income tax is unconstitutional. That is also an old conspiracy theory. It is a lie. The film never backs up it's argument with any constitutional proof. Claims 16th Amendment was never ratified. Another lie.

- Claims all your tax dollars go to the "bankers" that run the fed and the world.

- Interviews some former IRS agents who claim there is no law requiring you to pay taxes and they couldn't find the law. I guess that is why they are former agents. They also claim they no longer file their own taxes.

Wesley Snipes must have beens unavailable to be interviewed for the film.

- From the Federal Reserve on to war. The international bankers who run everything love war. It makes them money. They claim the bankers got us into all the wars since the Fed was created of course.

- They claim the Lusitania was intentionally sailed in order to be sunk and drag the country into war.

- Film claims FDR and his banker cronies got us into WWII. Film claims FDR intentionally angered and provoked Japanese into initiating war. Another tired old bullshit conspiracy theory.

- Film makes claims about US businesses and banks doing business with Nazi Germany. Fails to mention many international corporations did business with Germany until they became an enemy.

- Film claims the Gulf of Tonkin incident was phony and staged. An old conspiracy theory started by left wing journalists in the early 80's. Film doesn't mention that North Vietnamese General Giap (in charge of NV forces) admitted to the first attack during the 90's.

- Film claims Vietnam was a war for profit... by the bankers of course. It was correct about the ridiculous rules of engagement during the war. However I'm sure the reasoning is wrong, but fits the conspiracy theory mindset.

- Back to 9-11 being staged so the country could go to war so the evil bankers could make money.

- The film claims 9-11 was also staged to create war on US citizens. To destroy your civil liberties and destroy your ability to fight back.

- Film goes on to tell all kinds of lies about what the government can do to you. Claims they will torture you too. This is typical new conspiracy theory shit that has emerged in the past few years. No proof to back up any claims.

- Says the Nazi's staged attacks to increase domestic power so in their mind 9-11 must be the same thing.

- The tired war for oil conspiracy theory rears it's head. Film claims the invisible people controlling everything want Iraq to be unstable. They claim Iraq will be a launching point to attack other oil producing countries (They mention Syria, but Syria is not a major oil producer)

- Voice over of well known crackpot Lyndon LaRouche claiming our objective is to have Iraqi's destroy each other.

- Film claims U.S. public education system has gone downhill and are making people stupid. That may be true, but certainly not for the reasons this film claims. It claims the federal government wants a dumb and stupid population.

Well... without a dumb and stupid population, the producers of this film wouldn't have had an audience.

- Film claims the proliferation of mass media and entertainment are part of the conspiracy to keep people dumb and unthinking.

- Another scene of a Howard Beale rant from the film "Network" is shown (I should have watched the film "Network" instead of this garbage)

- A photo of Rupert Murdoch and heavy imagery of FoxNews logos are prominently displayed. Extremely little of the MSNBC or CNN logos. It seems according to the film makers FoxNews must be more evil.

- Now on to the North American Union conspiracy bullshit. The US, Canada, and Mexico will be merged according to them and this whacky conspiracy theory.

- Shows a Lou Dobbs clip alluding to this whacky conspiracy theory. It's going to end the United States as we know it.

- Claims a new currency is coming after the "merger" called the Amero.

The North American Union is a conspiracy theory that has been around for the past few years.

- Goes on to talk about the conspiracy leading to one world government controlled by said bankers and capitalists.

- The film quotes David Rockefeller. He is a renowned internationalist, and many of these conspiracy theories for domination involve him and his family. There is a member of the Rockefeller family in the Senate, Jay Rockefeller. He is David Rockefellers nephew. It's funny how he is never interviewed by any of these whacky conspiracy theory people considering they allege he is making money and his family are part of the "men behind the curtain" and the global conspiracy.

- Voice over of the late Aaron Russo who claims he heard all types of plans for world domination from a member of the Rockefeller family. Russo was in the entertainment business and is a former tax cheat who had IRS problems. He later made a film called "America: Freedom to Fascism".

The film deceptively does not tell the viewer that the voice over is from a call he made to the Alex Jones Show (Jones is the king of loony conspiracy theorists).

- The film is deceptive and lies about the Real ID Act passed by Congress.

- The film claims the goal of the conspirators is to have everyone eventually implanted with an RFID chip. That's so they can track you, control you, and be used for financial transactions like an implanted credit card. If you don't cooperate or are a dissenter, they can shut down your access to electronic finances and economic activity.

According to the film, even patriotism is bad.

- Film ends with a bunch of voice overs and images flashed on the screen of people like Ghandi, MLK, John Lennon. Then some final text... "The Revolution is Now".

Maybe they mean the Ron Paul Revolution. Conspiracy theorists were attracted to him too like flies on shit.

Originally posted by Claus:

The Rockefeller part is quite interesting too.

Originally posted by 20001frontier:

Sounds like a perfect film for Paulbots.

Originally posted by NY Madman:
For such an operation to occur, hundreds of people (maybe more) would have to be part of such an operation at varying levels for it to succeed. How does any government keep all these people quiet? The government can't even listen in on a terrorist's phone call without it appearing on the front page of the NY Times.

Originally posted by NY Madman:
If the evil diabolical government was going to do something like that as an excuse for war... why didn't they make the hijackers Iraqi's and frame Saddam? Wow... I guess that would have been too easy.

Originally posted by NY Madman:
If you are looking for some of the surveillance camera footage from the areas surrounding the Pentagon, a lot has already been released. Have you actually looked for it? I'm sure more will be released in the future.

You can find links to video footage here....

http://www.judicialwatch.org/6068.shtml

Originally posted by fog:
Probably a typo, which is why George used the wrong name in the press conference.

Originally posted by fog:

It takes "hundreds" of our government to pull something like this off, yet terrorists can do it with just a handful... interesting.

Originally posted by NY Madman:

Quote:

Originally posted by Claus:

[b]The Rockefeller part is quite interesting too.

Are the Rockefellers controlling your central bank up there too? [/b]

Originally posted by fog:
You need to say "lunatic" and "moonbat" more, it gives you more credibility. Go ahead and link or cite all of the parts that were "debunked", or should we all just take your word for it like usual?

The one thing I want the government I send my tax dollars to to show me is survelliance of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

They won't.
Why not? This is my country, I have the right to see it.

Until then, I will continue to be open minded and not a sheep like you.

Originally posted by spalind:
Oh...and Midnight---Your boyfriend is a moron...

Originally posted by MidnightX:

Quote:

Originally posted by spalind:
[b]Oh...and Midnight---Your boyfriend is a moron...

That's nice. You know he fought for 10 years for you to be able to sit at your computer and freely type your thoughts. He was a member of BUDS in the Navy (underwater demolition diver) and has a medal of Valor for rescuing people and got stabbed and his face kicked in in Iraq and had to have reconstructive surgery. He's had to wipe his *ss with plant leaves in the jungle in Thailand. He's been in two helicopter crashes. That's a really nice way to respect a member of our military. He knows a lot more than we know. Let's give him some credit.

And yes, there are photos of plane wreckage at the WTC. It's on that Popular Mechanics page that Madman posted a link to.

If people are going to resort to name calling in this thread, I'm done with this argument. I was just exploring the claims that this movie presented and asked for everyone's thoughts and solid evidence to disprove them. It was quite compelling.

But I know I'm just a fool for falling for the conspiracy "bullsh*t". I just don't see anything wrong with investigating everything our government tells us. I think it's foolish to believe everything they say as the ultimate truth!

Have a nice day![/b]

Originally posted by MidnightX:

The videos, eyewitness accounts, scientists, engineers, and facts brought up by the Zeitgeist Movie were much more convincing to me. I'll research more, though! I promise. Don't get all huffy and puffy!

Originally posted by NY Madman:
You are writing some troubling things Midnight. Even though we don't know each other and I only know what you write on the message board, I have always been able to see that you are a good person and a person with a good soul.

Originally posted by MidnightX:

Seriously, I'm done with this thread. The general consensus is that I am an idiot and maybe I need to sit down at night and think about why I am that way. Thanks for opening my eyes!

Originally posted by Chris Mc:

Quote:

Originally posted by MidnightX:
[b]
Seriously, I'm done with this thread. The general consensus is that I am an idiot and maybe I need to sit down at night and think about why I am that way. Thanks for opening my eyes!

I think in reality the general consensus is that NY Madman is a crackpot escaped from the looney bin and that the fascist right-wingers aren't worth the effort of trying to argue with due to their real-world blinders and general lack of intelligence. That's why noone else is bothering with this thread. [/b]

Originally posted by MidnightX:

Seriously, I'm done with this thread. The general consensus is that I am an idiot and maybe I need to sit down at night and think about why I am that way. Thanks for opening my eyes!

I gotta get back to work.