lethel injection: cruel and unusual?

you decide! what are yall's opinions on the subject?
http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=53929

I googled the guy and appearently he killed a cop also.

lethal injection is fine by me. Uses less energy than the electric chair, so really, it's the "environmental friendly" way to kill someone.

(sorry; just read the "why are there so many inconsiderate arseholes that bought a X after I did and are wasting all the fuel??" thread.)

Lethal injection is better than the chair, I think. And I support the death penalty - costs less money than to keep them in there for life.

good, idea! environmentally friendly....i never looked at it like that.

Bottom line -- fuck those guys.

I'm so tired of these assholes on death row receiving more legal and societal considerations than their victims. How about the people leading this legal fight put the victim's needs first, for a change.

I've never seen a study that says that. All the one's I've seen say the exact opposite - the death penalty ends up costing more than life in prison.

Now, that could change IF they reduced the appeals process. But that's a dangerous road to go down, especially when you consider the number of people exonerated by DNA. Even one person exonerated should prove that the appeals process is needed.

Right, appeals process needs to be changed. Dangerous or not, some people should not be kept alive, period. Many prisoners end up costing the state over a Million dollars. Now that's just rediculous.

Kill them and be done with them. Prisons are often overwhelmed with inmates and something needs to be done.

Death Penalty to all those who deserve it regardless of the Victim's or special interest's opinions. There's no "Cruel and Unusual" to someone who inflicts it on others.

As to method; I would prefer to see the cheapest and easiest as the standard and allow the States to decide for themselves.

You mean like Curtis McCarty ?

21 years on death row - exonerated because DNA proved he didn't do it.

I'm not saying this happens all the time - it is rare. But we're talking about killing someone for a crime. This is final. You have to be absolutely 100% sure about it. There is not taking it back once it's done.

I agree FUCK THOSE ASSHOLES!!

Very true, it cannot be undone. And there will, most likely, be more exonerations due to DNA testing.

But geez, spending 21 years on death row? How many people are out there spending decades on death row? How many of those victims are put through the ringer time and time again to relive things, only to watch people convicted of horrible crimes -- crimes strong enough to warrant a death penalty verdict -- continue to take advantage of a system that, IMHO, is in desperate need of an overhaul?

Arguments for or against the death penalty aside, how about a little more effort on behalf of the victims?

I agree if you are 100% sure that someone is guilty of a heinous (sp?) crime then they should be killed for it. Maybe give them at most one appeal. Lethal inject s about as painless as being killed gets, so there's nothing cruel about it... especially considering what kind of cruel crime you have to commit to be charged with the death penalty.

Personally I think they're being let off too easy... and wasting our money with life imprisonments and lethal injection these days.

What's the current price of a .45 round?

No such thing as 100%. We've killed the innocent before and we'll do it again... it's just something you accept as part of having a death penalty.

As for the cocktail being cruel and unusual - I don't see why there's so much controversy... if there is some suggestion that they might not be using enough anesthetic - just up the amount of anesthetic in the cocktail and be done with it. A bit more drug can't cost much compared to the cost of the overall process.

AAR, they should just do what they do with cattle... stun them with a cash knocker or a bullet or something and then slit their throats 'till they bleed out... that is considered plenty humane enough for a cow... and I have less respect for these folks than I do for cows

At the end of the day - taking someones life is cruel and unusual in my book. So change the out of date constitution already to allow for it and kill some of these fuckers rather than sitting them on Death Row for 30 years first.

I say go with something like the Sadaam Hussein appeal process, trial ends - 30 days later string em up.

Eighth Amendment protects us from a cruel and unusual punishment. Once we start saying "fuck that let's kill them all with a hammer" where will this end?
Please note, the argument is not about death penalty -- it is about lethal injection. Such arguments have been brought up before the Supreme Court before and I do not see what is wrong with it. As societies and people evolve, our norms and laws have to evolve too. Questioning and changing our laws is not the end of the world.

Death penalty itself was a subject to questioning because the wording in the Constitution is loose. I highly doubt that we can have a decate w/o case where somebody challenges it. What is cruel? What is unusual? Does capital punishment fall into that category? If we do something more often will this become usual and not cruel? I am sure people will figure things out.

I'm against lethal injection, but for the guillotine, preferably about a week after the guilty verdict.

For those against lethal injection, what method would you prefer?

I'd rather get injected then BBQ'd. Hanging? Firing squad? Tickled?

I say bring back the firing squad.

Utah used the firing squad on Gary Gilmore in the '70s, didn't they?

Sounds pretty good to me.

Yep ...lead pills are cheap and easily obtained.

Boil them in oil during halftime of the Monday Night Football games, and sell advertising.

Sponsor: Crisco!

(George Carlin)

I dunno...the definition of cruel and unusual is a little different for everyone. I'm more for the eye for an eye approach. If they shot their victim, shoot them. If they raped and tortured their victim....then do the same to them. The only thing in my mind that could be defined as cruel and unusual is something more cruel and unusual than a murderer did to his victim.

The big hangup with capital punishment is that 100% certainty factor on a conviction when no one actually witnessed it. There's always that modicum of doubt that goes in, and no one wants to be the one who executed an innocent person.

For those who don't believe in it all together, I don't know what to say. You can stomach what the murderer does, but you can't stomach him getting what he has coming to him. Why the hell should we pay to house, clothe, and feed him for the rest of his life? He's already costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in legal fees through the appeals process. 10-20 year stays on death row are ridiculous. It should be 2 years. If you can't put together an appeal in that amount of time, then there's something even more wrong with our legal system than I thought.

You think if they went back to firing squad they would have to disinfect the bullets first? They actually wipe down the spot of injection with alcohol wipes... I've always found that amusing...

......why DO they do that?

Un-fucking-real.

Look at this list: Exonerated

Look at how many took more than 2 years.

So basically you are saying, "oh well...too bad." To a person CLEARED of the charge.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there needs to be an overhaul to the legal process that keeps these cases from dragging out that long.

I believe in the appeals process for exactly the same reason you do. I just don't believe in the amount of time it takes to work.

"Environmentally Friendly," ya say? Why not strip them naked and bury them alive? At least for the ones where there's no doubt... like they raped a minor on video or something.

I'd bring a shovel!

Hmmm. Uh, yeah, that'd work great:

Q: So, what do you do for a living?
A: I'm a death-row executioner.
Q: Whoa, really? So, do you flip the electric chair on or give the lethal injection?
A: Uh, no. I'm the guy they call in to rape and torture convicts until they're dead. It's a gruesome job, but someone's got to do it. Next month, that guy Mike Rowe from the Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs is coming to film a segment.

:rolleyes:

Why not just put them in a room, and fill it with CO? They'd just fall asleep and die, right? Why don't we use the "gas chamber" anymore?

Ah, ok.

But there is definitely something wrong with the system - look how long it takes for them to schedule a trial. This isn't necessarily the fault of the accused.

That'd work in Texas.

We've got fire ants . . .

Oh come on...you dont think there'd be takers for that job?

Never thought about the "Dirty Jobs" reference. That'd be downright hilarious.

Ok, so maybe we won't have an anal rapist on the payroll, but you get the idea. I think lethal injection or the gas chamber is too humane for some of these animals.

Ok, figure bullets cost $1 each. Just for the sake of argument. Firing squad is usually 5 shooters, one has blanks. That's for the psychological impact, each shooter can say I had the blank, I didn't kill him/her. Here in NH it costs $38k a year to house a minimum security inmate. Maximum security is in the vicinity of $60k. That's more than alot of people make in a year. Hmmm, spend $1 and get it over with, or spend a few hundred thousand dollars to house, feed, and guard them. Or better yet, turn them all loose in the yard and let them fight to the end.

ever shoot a blank? You know it's a blank....doesn't have the same recoil as a live round.

Just saying.

Carry on.

I always thought with a firing squad it was the opposite - there was only 1 live bullet.

I'm curious where you found that data. From THIS source , the average cost in New Hamphire for ALL prisoners is only $28,000. What group is bringing it down, if not the minimum security population?

Counties are also included in that data. They pack them in like sardines, thus its alot cheaper. Plus, county here is for less than a year, they don't have squat for the rehab programs either. I know a couple of guards at Merrimack county plus a few at the State Prison, state pays better but its higher risk.

Nope.

http://deathpenaltyinfo.msu.edu/c/about/methods/firingsquad.htm

Hate to have the one dude with the bullet get nervous and wing the dude, and have him bleeding while they reload.

There have been cases with inmates on death row who had to fight to actually receive the punishment. Some of these sickos actually have the balls to say they did it and want to die. But even they have to wait years and years for the penalty to be carried out.

Think about this tho - As a parent of someones child who has been murdered, would you want the murderer to receive a swift punishment? I personally would like the fucker to rot and suffer rather than getting an easy way out quickly.

Emotions get the best of people.

I would think them sitting in a cell for the rest of their life would be a much harsher punishment than a quick death penalty.

If they are convicted of *murder,* then don't give them any chance of parole. Why do we bother with giving Manson a parole hearing every year or two?

""conviction when no one actually witnessed it.""

"witnesses" are the problem. Often they don't get the look they think they do. Or they are in hot water themselves and "help" the investigators naming someone for a crime.

I like to see the evidence other than witness tesitmony everytime.

Something that makes me cringe is when they interview jurors after a conviciton in a high profile case. I hear things like " he didn't have a good demeanor in the courtroom" He didn't seem to have remorse"

That scares me.

And as for the lists provided showing multiple cases of exoneration, many of those listed aren't really exonerations to the point the person was innocent. Just that there was a techinal reason or otherwise to allow the conviction to be overturned.

I saw James Robison on the second list posted. Very much involved in the death of Don Bolles, along with Adamson and Kemper Marley.

I didn't see (glanced at the list) Ray Krone however.

Convicted of murdering a bartender after hours one night. Convicted using bite marks. Exonerated later when better evidence showed the bite marks could not be his, and I believe DNA also helped clear him.

At any rate, certainly there are some people on death row who did not do the crime that landed them on death row and that really scares me.

But if there is overwhelming evidence of guilt and the penalty applies, it should be much swifter than is usually is.....

Lordy. How about the "idiot factor" for the jury? Remember O.J.'s jury? "We din see what no blood type had to do wif it!" wow. Could work just the opposite way too, my Mom was the foreman on a jury for a murder trial. She said one of the jurors spoke of the defendant (a "well to do" Dentist) and said, "He was too handsome to have her as a wife, I'm sure he killed her because he knew he could do better." Uh.. can we consider the actual EVIDENCE here?

I know what getting fucked by a jury feels like after my wifes injury case after being rear ended. Jury didn't even award medical bills.

Back to the topic at hand

Interesting graphic showing which states do what.

I found that website very interesting. Does that mean I'm fucked up or something?

It wasn't *just* overturned in his case, though. In the second trial, he was acquitted.

From the details I can find, he *might* have been involved...Adamson sounds too fishy to believe 100%. He would only testify if they reinstated his plea bargain. Can we say questionable witness?

just out of curiousity, how can a state justify not having a death penalty? so basically go to one of them, kill someone and you spend the rest or four life behind bars.......free food and living?

If you call living in a cell with TV living...so be it.

How can a state justify HAVING a death penalty?

The death penalty serves only one purpose - revenge. It does NOT act as a deterrent. If it did, why does the population on death row continue to grow?

From 688 in 1980 to 3314 in 2004.
From

It grows because of the swelling appeals process and the lack of follow through on sentences.