Pit Bulls

Who says all pit bulls are mean? hehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2OC5Z1Fii8

I thought this was pretty cool.

Not me. My little 95lb sister has been raising pits for the past 5 years. Her dogs are some of the most well mannered dogs I've ever seen. They can act a bit strange when other dogs are around, but none of them have ever even nipped at a person.

A good example of a well trained dog. The dog will act only as good or as bad as the human who trained it or abused it!!!! We have a 43 pound boxer that is basically a big puppy but because she is a type of "pit bull" we can not live in military housing!!!! Oh well screw GMH!!!!

Tim

Here is a pic of our "aggressive" breed dog!!!!

I could not agree more. I have a friend who rescues pit bulls. She has one that was abused and ready to be put down two years ago. Today, its ranked #31 in the nation for obedience in its breed and is as happy and well-adjusted of a dog that you could hope for.

Boxers are considered dangerous?!?!

While I hope I'm not jinxing myself by saying this, I've NEVER met an unfriendly boxer. Those are the most affectionate and hyperactive dogs I know... well that and my Aussie.

All "aggresive" breeds can be great dogs... until they feel threatened. Then they can snap. It's the unpredictablity of these breeds that makes them dangerous. I once saw a pit jump into a car window and attack a guy who was just turning around in the driveway. Obviously the dog doesn't feel that those chicks are a threat, but who knows what the dog will percieve as a threat next time... the chick, a kid, you, your wife, other dog, etc... There's a reason that these dogs are feared!!

Boxers are considered a dangerous breed according to GMH which handles Army Housing...bunch of crap if you ask me....

Any animal will attack if it feels threatened not just a so called dangerous or aggressive breed. My 12 year old shepard/retriever mix will take your hand off if he feels threatened while the boxer rolls over with her legs up in the air.

The problem are all these trashy people (my family has been on Cops before) that buy these dogs abuse them and then they equate humans with abuse or a threat and react how nature has programmed them.

Dogs are not "wild" animals but they are still animals with insticts that will never be suppressed.

The good part is that dogs are pack animals and easily trainable if you know what your doing. Ceasar Milan is an amazing man who also has a great show which demonstrates that all the time.

Tim

My neighbors pitbull was a dumbass. I say WAS, because it appears that me leaving my garden gate open at my old house resulted in the dog escaping when it hopped the wall into my yard, which I complained to them about for months! lol.

My wicked plan paid off.

Pitbulls are great dogs. WHen they get bad owners is when they become dangerous.

The same can be said for any type of dog.

You get bitten by a chihuahua with a bad owner it might be a few hours before you actually realize it is still hanging off of your ass.

A pitbull is a different story.

Dont blame the dogs, blame the owners.

Pitbulls scored 83.9% on temperment testing done by the American Temperment Test Society, compared to 77% for the general dog population. Though they can be DOG aggressive, they were purposely bred not to be human aggressive. There's plenty of info out there, don't believe all the myths.

Got a Youtube clip? We/I need to hear more on this subject that is awesome.

I wish I did but its not a highlight at family reunions!!!!

Tim

Here's my killer. You better look out, she will lick the crap out of you.



It really is the environment that the dog is raised in. My pup was a stray, but she is in a loving home and has never been aggressive toward anyone.

She will protect her family though. She's flipped another dog over and pinned him without harm when he came at us with teeth barred.

Every pitbull I have come across has been super friendly to me. I agree with most people in this thread its not the dog its the owner. All these little gangsters think its cool to have a pit and they mistreat the animal. In my opinion a pitbull should be treated like a gun. There should be back ground checks and liscense distibuted. Just to keep the idiots from owning them.

Bah, I'm not eating that, there's no 11 herbs and spices...

All these cute pictures just prove what a dangerous breed these dogs really are, they have managed to brainwash you owners into thinking they are cute family pets and won't rip your neighbours kids to pieces given half a chance. It's a sad day for XOC when people are Oooo'ing and Ahhhhh'ing over the cute Pit Bull Puppy pics, when we all know these dogs should be shot on sight.

Their cunning ability to disguise their true underlying malice makes them a formidable foe.

Sounds like Pit Bulls and politicians have more in common than we thought!!!!!!

Tim

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Boxers are wonderful beautiful dogs.

Here is our ferocious girl Leesha. She passed away almost 2 years ago now from cancer. She was and still is the light of our family. You couldn't ask for a better dog but people were scared of her because of her looks.



And here is our foster boy Bryson that we had last winter for 3 months until he went to his forever home. He was quite the handful but was just a big lap dog.



We currently are dogsitting my mother's 2 yr old ShitZu while she is in NFLD and this dog is just so yappy. Drives me insane and I wouldn't trust her around any small children.

My wife has a two inch scar on her hand from trying to peel two pit bulls that escaped from a neighbors garage and were hell bent on turning my utterly harmless and completely non-agressive golden retriever into roadkill. There's another thread on here about pitbulls that details the incident.

The two pitbulls that attacked my wife and dog were raised in a loving home by loving owners.

That crap about pitbulls acting as nice as the owners is complete and utter bullshit. And that temperment score is irrelevant. It's not about how aggresive the breed is in general, it's about how much damage they can do when they go nuts.

Fortunately for the safety of the population at large, money talks and bullshit (most of this thread) walks. Insurance companies now drop pit bull owners that report even a single dog bite claim faster than I can type this sentence. The homeowners are also then blackballed from getting other reputable or reasonably priced insurance. And I couldn't be happier about that. Unfortunately, most people that I've come across that own pitbulls aren't too concerned with insurance of any variety.

And that is exactly why its unfair to single out any single breed. No one thinks about Golden Retrievers being dangerous, yet an elderly neighbor of mine was attacked and hospitalized and her dog torn open down the gut by two Goldens that had gotten out of their yard. Her dog did live, but not without several nights at the vet and a line of stitches from stem to stern. Nothing like coming home from work and seeing blood all over the sidewalk.

I am sorry about your wife. A neighborhood dog once charged my wife and dog while she was out walking and it still boils my blood to think about, so I know how you feel.

Unfortunately, we only hear about dog attacks on the news. No one reports the tens of thousands of Pit Bulls (or other "dangerous" dogs) that went through the day (or their life) without incident.

A dog is nothing more than a domesticated wolf. A wolf is much more powerful (especially the jaw muscles) but that inherant animalism can never be "breeded" out. Ive trained my dogs to act aggresively based upon verbal cues that my wife or I give to the animal...it can be turned on and off but I still dont trust them as I will never completely trust any animal for the above reason.

Be that as it may they have never attacked or threatened to attack but it is in them same as for a Yorkie or Toy Poodle. In addition they are never off a lease, we have a 5ft tall rock wall with an extra 3ft of chain link so they can not get out with a case hardened chains and locks on the gate. If someone gets into my backyard or enters our home without us inviting them the dogs are trained to act accordingly.

We take great responsibility in ensuring that when people we know or invite arrive the dogs act fine but then there is the switch that can be thrown.

Pit Bulls have been breed to be non-aggressive towards humans..but aggressive towards other dogs, especially another dominate male dog.

I agree that owners should be responsible for the animal but it is not the animals fault that Joe Dirt keeps the animal tied up behind his trailer and throws beer cans at him....you live like that and see if your not aggressive towards humans. Nor do I agree that lawsuits should be filed unless severe negligance can be shown on the owners behalf.

I am sorry about your wifes attack but proper training would have eliminated serious hand injury. My best friend is an MP and they train their dogs with what is called a "wrap". Basically a large extremely padded sleeve that fits over your arm. Once the dog latches on they wont release until the handler calls them off. For that reason you can use to your advantage if attacked by a charging dog.

If the animal is charging you with its ears back, mouth open guess what....it wants you. Stand your ground like a wrestler would and present the dog with what it wants your weaker arm. The dog will go for that target as it will be closer and easy to grab onto since it will be perpindicular to the animals mouth. Meanwhile retrieve a small pocket knift (I always carry one while walking my dogs) and since the dog has attacked your arm you have a perfect opening to slash the animals vulnerable underbelly or neck. You may not have to kill the animal but your goal is to survive at this point. It will hurt you but puncture wounds on your forearm are better than a ripped apart hand.

Just some advice that unfortunately I know works. Take it for what you will.....

Tim

Just so happens it was two pitbulls. I would bet my sweet little Pit/Lab mix on the fact that if you get between ANY breed of dog while they are engaged in combat with another animal, you become a threat and will get the nasty end of the dog.

Your wife is the dumb shit in that situation for sticking her hand in there. She is lucky all that happened was a two inch cut. Bad decision on her part. Hopefully next time she looks at her scar before trying to stop a dog fight. Sometimes lessons come the hard way, don't take the easy way out by blaming a whole breed of dog.

ALL dogs have centuries of instincts that tell them they are hunters, hunt in packs, and as with ANY predator, they prey on weaker animals. Your little sweet innocent Golden Retriever has the same instincts, but happend to be the weaker animal in this situation. Dogs sense fear, if you show it, you become the weaker animal...i.e. the prey.

I was bit by a damn cocker spaniel when I was a kid. Doesn't mean I go around spewing out propaganda that Cockers are vicious and should be shot on sight. People can be vicious, does that mean we get to shoot whoever we, as individuals, think are vicious and dangerous? Nope. I personally don't really like a lot of things in this world, doesn't mean I get to go destroy whatever it is I don't like.

I think the real issue here is FEAR. You people that hate Pits are the same people that clam up and get nervous when you are in an environment where YOU are the minority. "Uh oh..don't know how to act around the colored people, uh oh...I saw on MTV how they all hate us whiteys and they all carry guns and want to rob people, just look at the ground and they won't bother me." C'mon, are ya'll really that afraid and ignorant, stop being a bunch of f'ing babies. Stay your asses in your little suburbia with the white picket fence and keep the covers pulled over your head so nothing can get ya.

I have a shepard/border collie mix and a Pit bull/lab mix. The pit/lab is highly excitable and full of energy and bark, but that is all. My other dog is much calmer and nice to familiar hands, but has engaged other dogs at the same time when they came after my wife, and cornered family that stayed over and got up in the middle of the night. So as for that unpredictablity of Pits...that is BS. No one can predict a dogs' behavior 100% of the time, not even the owners.

Bottom line: If you don't have first hand experience around Pit Bulls, shut your mouth. Second, if you have had a "negative" experience, ask yourself if it was really the result of the breed or could any dog react the same way.

If you think a every dog in a breed is "dangerous", you are an ignorant human being and should get over your fear so you can hold an intelligent conversation without sounding like a fool who thinks all _____ breed of dogs should be shot.

No more so than every single living breathing human being. So...should every person be shot? After all, everyone has the capabilty to be a danger to themselves and/or others, and many people that "snap", show little or no signs. We are talking about a DOG. An animal that we have controlled over centuries, it is not a "foe". It is a tool first, and a companion second.

Nice looking dog. How old? M/F?

Me being a proud pitbull owner I will definitely stand up for this breed. My pit is 3 yrs old and has never once harmed anyone and has grown up around my 5yr old and 18mo old and is very very protective of both of them. Like it was said before, Its not the dog, but the environment and treatment throughout its life which influences its behavior as well as its natural instinct.

I have a questions for a couple of people in here... Auditor_Kevin : WTF!?! Was your wife thinking when she reached right in to separate two highly pissed off canines?? Noone in their right mind would stick their hand in a open mouth of a great white now would they? Same should apply for a dog fight! I would venture to guess that that was a case of stupidity and she was indeed lucky for the 2in paper cut.

As for you Rinky: Do you have any first hand accounts of an actual Pit Bull attacking you or any of your family and causing malicious damage? Or are you one of those "jump-on-the-bandwagon" idiots that run their mouth without being educated in what they are talking about? I would love to see you pull out your gun when you see my pit and definitely would love to see you grow the balls to "shoot it on the spot" Youre all talk, with no formal education in this background to back up your half witted 3rd grade statements. You soak up what the news feeds you and instantiously form an opinion on things you think you know about but honestly dont have a clue. My advice to you which will benefit you greatly is to gather as much data and information as you can before you start to open your mouth. You will defintely look like less of an a55!

-Rob

T Ray - I guess the highly educated actuaries working at insurance companies are all dumbasses, too. They take emotion completely out of the equation and just analyze at the money - yet they come to the same conclusion I do. That whole predator/prey analysis you gave me speaks more to your misguided (and frankly, disturbing) set of principles than to some kind of excuse why it's ok to own highly dangerous breeds that can cause destruction on a scale unlike most normal dogs.

As for you claiming everyone smart enough to stay away from a breed of dog capable of killing a grown man means they're racist.....wow. I don't know where to begin with that one. I'm glad you included it though, as it did more to take away from any arguement you had rather than helping it.

And as for you calling my wife a "dumb shit" for intervening instead of letting the two pits kill a member of our family, again - thanks. It's attitudes like that that will make anti-pit legislation that much easier to pass.

All I'll say to you other proud pitbull owners out there is enjoy the high deductible/no coverage/deny-every-claim homeowners insurance you'll have to pick up if your dog bites someone.

The couple that owned the pits that bit my wife eventually had to sell their house. Probably from a combination of not being able to get insurance and being completely ostricized by their neighbors. The local kids weren't allowed anywhere near that house.

Why put yourself in a position where that's even a possibity when there are so many breeds of dogs that were bred to be companions, not bred to be blood-thirsty killing machines? If your answer is that you need an animal bred to be a killing machine for some kind of protection, then I highly recommend that you increase your skill sets so you can move someplace safer.

I don't care what kind of pets you have if you live someplace isolated, but in the middle of a neighborhood full of kids running around, everyone has to play by the community rules. And #1 on that list is being responsible enough to not put others in harms way. It's no coincidence that this breed is most popular in the worst neighborhoods. Dangerous people gravitate towards dangerous activities.

Finally, I realize I'm painting with a broad brush here. I'm sure there are plenty of well-intended people on the other side of this debate. It's a shame so many irresponsible and reckless people have identified with the breed you love so much - but they have, and something needs to be done about it.

Shit, my dog can kick your dogs ass

Here is a recent pic of me out for a walk with Spot.

T-Ray's post is a classic. He goes off on a rant about painting Pit Bull's and their owners with a broad brush and then turns around and paints all Pit Bull haters with the same broad brush and even throws racist crap into the argument. He then manages to insult someone for trying to stop a fight where a family member is being attacked. Classic stuff there T-Ray.

Pit bulls are a popular topic here on XOC. There seems to always be a new thread regarding these dogs that pops up.

Some people love them and claim the owners are always at fault for any bad behavior by the breed. Some people claim they are a bad breed of dog and prone to aggression and attack.

One thing is certain. They are physically capable of doing more damage than most breeds of dogs due to their superior bite pressure and their aggressive nature once it is triggered.

I don't know who is correct in this argument. I only know my personal opinion of pit bulls. I would never completely trust one of them. The same goes for Rots. (I don't care much for Dobermans either. But I do love most other breeds of dogs)

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) published a study concerning deaths from canine attacks. They found over a period of time, about one third of such attacks were done by pit bull type dogs.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

Can that high percentage of attacks by a particular type of dog all be due to bad owners or does the breed play a large factor?

What constitutes a normal dog?

Quote:

As for you claiming everyone smart enough to stay away from a breed of dog capable of killing a grown man means they're racist.....wow. I don't know where to begin with that one. I'm glad you included it though, as it did more to take away from any arguement you had rather than helping it.

Most medium to large size dogs are CAPABLE of killing a grown man. Particularly those dogs which have stronger wills.

Quote:

And as for you calling my wife a "dumb shit" for intervening instead of letting the two pits kill a member of our family, again - thanks. It's attitudes like that that will make anti-pit legislation that much easier to pass.

What happened to your wife is very unfortunate. However, it is not the even close to being the average pit encounter.

Quote:

All I'll say to you other proud pitbull owners out there is enjoy the high deductible/no coverage/deny-every-claim homeowners insurance you'll have to pick up if your dog bites someone.

I am no insurance admiral like yourself, but I do know that this was the case my parents friends. Their Dalmatian bit a guy a couple years ago. Bye bye insurance. Let’s not limit this one to pit bulls.

Quote:

The couple that owned the pits that bit my wife eventually had to sell their house. Probably from a combination of not being able to get insurance and being completely ostricized by their neighbors. The local kids weren't allowed anywhere near that house.

That's just sad. Again, it’s very unfortunate for your wife to be put in that position and she has every right to protect your dog from harm. I consider her being a causality of war for lack of a better term and not necessarily attacked.

Quote:

Why put yourself in a position where that's even a possibity when there are so many breeds of dogs that were bred to be companions, not bred to be blood-thirsty killing machines? If your answer is that you need an animal bred to be a killing machine for some kind of protection, then I highly recommend that you increase your skill sets so you can move someplace safer.

Blood thirsty killing machines. Use your head for more than a hat rack. If this were even remotely close to being true the military would own all rights or the breed would've been extinguished long ago.

Quote:

I don't care what kind of pets you have if you live someplace isolated, but in the middle of a neighborhood full of kids running around, everyone has to play by the community rules. And #1 on that list is being responsible enough to not put others in harms way. It's no coincidence that this breed is most popular in the worst neighborhoods. Dangerous people gravitate towards dangerous activities.

Are you on medifuckincation? Did I just read that you would like to be able to dictate where people could live depending on what kind of pet they own? Maybe, I didn't read that correctly. Anyway, from what I gathered from your story this was an anomaly. Those dogs were contained, but managed to get out. So, it's not like the owners were putting anybody in harms way. It seems like they were doing their best to comply with your #1 rule.

Quote:

Finally, I realize I'm painting with a broad brush here. I'm sure there are plenty of well-intended people on the other side of this debate. It's a shame so many irresponsible and reckless people have identified with the breed you love so much - but they have, and something needs to be done about it.

What should we do? Hey, I have an idea. Let's inform all the people you consider irresponsible and reckless that you (Dictator_Kevin) have been promoted from highly educated actuary to grand master of universe and that you want them to disassociate with pit bulls because you said so. Then, if they deny your demands you can cast them into isolation (because you don’t care what pets are kept in isolated places) where they could live outside of your scrutinizing ways and enjoy the company of their blood thirsty machines. So yeah, let me know how ya make out with that, chief.

X2

You just managed to sum it up in many less words than it took me.

What constitutes a normal dog?

How about one that isn't capable of this:

The Enduring Agony Of A Pit Bull Attack

This happened two communities away from me, and it happened only a year and a half ago - so it ain't like I'm stretching for an example here. And don't give me the "media hates pit bulls" excuse on this one either. Had it been a person wandering a neighborhood causing this kind of destruction to man, woman and child it would have made national headlines.

If you want about a dozen more examples of what a normal dog ISN'T, do your own homework and use the search words "pit bull" and "malevolence" to find the thread where we've been documenting local instances of attacks. It's 7 pages long.

Clearly any dog that is capable of this...



Needs to be banned from our communities!

What I would like to know is, where do you draw the line? I have not done the research, but I will take the statement as true about Pit Bulls being involved in more reported attacks than other dogs. So if that is true, then are you suggesting that ALL Pit Bulls be put down, regardless of their individual temperament? At what point do you stop eliminating the worst dog on the list? Because after you get rid of the Pit Bulls, then the next worst dog is now responsible for the most attacks. Remember, probably all breeds have documented cases of aggression (even Toy Poodles and Dachshunds).

I hear a lot of ranting and raving, but I have yet to hear anyone clearly state what they think the solution is to this.

Personally, I think the owner ALWAYS gets punished. And if the situation warrants, you also deal with the dog. But taking away a person's right to choose the breed of dog they want for a pet is just wrong. And that is no different than the debate over gun ownership. Many own potentially lethal weapons with good intent and handle them responsibly. Others knowingly get things because they want the destructive force they are capable of. If that person allows that weapon to be used in a destructive nature (by them self or another), then we have to hope that the legal system acts appropriately.

As I see it pit bulls are a huge problem in our communities, and I firmly beleive the only solution is to introduce an animal that can control their population for us



Here kitty kitty...

But seriously, by in large I fall into the camp that there are few bad dogs, but lots of bad owners. However, Pit Bulls appear to have certain traits or tendancies that provide less of a cushion for a boneheaded owner. For that reason, I probably wouldn't be opposed to some sort of special licensing requirement or something along those lines. I've never really been around Pit Bulls before, so I admit I'm not speaking with a lot of experience on the topic.

I tend to like herding dogs such as border collies and heelers (smarter and no tendancy to kill children.)

Discussions like these make me glad I have a toy dog. I don't need a big, nasty dog to show how tough I am. I'll gladly have the "rat dog" and homeowner's insurance. I'll take "your dog is like a cat" over "Jury awards the plaintiff $2.2 million dollars..." If it happens that someone busts into my home, the pug will let me know, and they're gonna have a lot more to deal with than some stupid-ass pit bull...plus I'm pretty sure I won't rip the neighbor kids' faces off any time soon.

As for T-Ray, well, what do you expect from a guy who stalks the border at night...armed to the teeth...looking for Mexican families to exterminate (on his blog)?

I have no problem with 'Mexicans', just Illegals. There is a huge difference, so don't go throwing it out there as if I am a racist. I have a friend from Sudan who obtained his citizenship legally and a close friend born/raised in Mexico who also recently obtained his citizenship. Neither came here illegally or were ever here illegally. They work and pay taxes just like every other American.

Sharam, I thought you left and were never coming back anyway...?

Anyway, back to the dog debate. Whatever...to each their own. Just don't make ignorant comments like all of breed X should be shot on sight (Rinky) or that you got bit because it was a _______ breed. You get bit when you stick your HAND into a dog fight no matter what kind of dog it is...your wife (Auditor Kevin) should have gotten a stick or Mace or ANYTHING to put between her and the dogs...she IS a dumb shit in this case for putting her HAND in with the mix.

I love it when racists think that by saying "I'm not racist", it's like "cootie protection" or "safety zone", it automatically makes it so.

I missed Madman's snuff-film lovin' ass. I needed to be reminded of his moral and intellectual superiority, as I was gettin' all chock full o' Jesus Love and self esteem. I need someone to look up to. Someone disgusting and hateful and gleefully pathological.

I think the line has to be drawn somewhere, and that somewhere is with personal responsibility. The real kind, not this twisted new sense of personal responsibility you right wing socialitsts keep wanking off to.

I look at it like this: some people will say that no one should be able to own a .50 BMG. Some say that anyone should be able to own a .50 BMG. I say that it's not my decision, but if someone does own a .50 BMG, that it is their weapon, and their weapon is their primary responsibility. If the weapon is stolen, they must prove that they provided due diligence in the proper locking and storage of the weapon. If they cannot, they should be charged with improper use of a firearm, which should be a felony.

Same goes for a dog that is dangerous, or could potentially be dangerous. If you don't lock your dog up, or cannot contol the behavior of a potentially dangerous dog, if the dog bites someone, it should be your responsibility. You should go to jail for the improper handling of a dangerous dog, because you did not provide due diligence in the handling of a dangerous animal.

Unfortunately, people will always stand around and scratch their heads and say "Gee, my Presa Canario was always such a nice dog...I never thought she'd use her instinctive hunting skills to kill a toddler, so didn't bother with a leash. Oops, my bad." When people wake up and go, "Fuck, I could go to jail for ten to fifteen if Fluffy rips that kid's face off, maybe I ought to do whatever I can to prevent that from happening."

I could not agree more on the responsibilty issue. That is why ALL dogs (in most municipalities) must be on a leash when out in public. There is no designation as to which breed must be on a leash, which tells me that the officials deem all dogs a potential danger. It is the ultimate responsibnilty on the owner always with any animal. My point is not that Pit Bulls are NOT dangerous, but that ALL dogs carry an inherent danger by their very nature. No single dog is born more dangerous than another. Pit bulls just get more bad press/attention, and are typically owned by BAD OWNERS to begin with! Some gangbanger goes and makes a schnauzer the popular breed and it starts attacking people that dog will get the same rep eventually.

The difference between guns and dogs is a mental capacity and instinct. Guns are no more dangerous than a hammer unless put to use by a human being. Dogs need not be forced to destroy, they can at any moment for any reason. ALL Dogs.

Explain a 'right-wing socialist' to me? I am not following that one...

Was it not obvious that my post was just a foolish drivel aimed at livening up this thread a little? I guess not! lol.

For those attacking Kevins wifes actions. You're trying to tell me if another dog is attacking your beloved family pet you aren't going to try and step in? My crazy ass dog drives us insane, coughing and farting and just generally being a pain in the ass. But bet your ass if a Pitbull is ripping him to pieces I'm gonna try and save the poor little fucker. I sometimes have to save my dog from our cat tho, he's such a wuss.

As for my experience with Pit Bulls, I really don't have any - Other than my neighbours dog who used to jump into my yard. Who was a bit of a pussy really, it would dive back over the wall if I went out in the yard. My post was a complete bunch of bullshit, like I would shoot someones dog on sight. If I was gonna do that I would have shot my neighbours dumbass dog.

I grew up around German Shepherds, another dog that gets a bit of a bad rap sometimes for being a vicious breed. As with any dog, I truly believe that it's the owner to blame when dogs attack people. With that in mind, Pit Bulls often attract a certain type of owner - The kind of person who just owns the dog as a Status Symbol and doesn't train it, or make it part of the family. When a dog is treated that way and then escapes from the house, then it becomes a problem. There is a house right by the school near my old place, they have 2 pitbulls in their yard and the y run up and snarl / bark at the chain link fence and generally scare the crap out of me and anyone who walks by the yard. They may only be protecting their home, but I sure as hell woldn't want to be around if one of those fuckers got out.

Republicans...Neoconservatives...whatever you want to call them. I call them "Right Wing Nationalist Socialists" because that's the best description of what they are. Big government pussy paranoiacs suckling off of Rush Limbaugh's left tit and Ann Coulter's left nut. JESUS WANTS FEDERALLY MANDATED PUBLIC EXECUTION types. Hang out in here for a while. They run in and out, stepping on their tongues and screaming out in retarded unison the anthems of media-induced fear and poorly feigned tough-guyisms.

"THE MEXICAN STOLED MY FREEDOMSES!!!"

WoW!!! I will throw my two cents in here in a sec. Gotta go outside n wash my truck
brb

Well now that everyone has spoke their piece, I think that it is safe to say that it has become more of a pissing match and a race to see who can claim that they have a bigger unit than everyone else rather than a very informative disscussion on a breed of dog and how it is percieved by public.

We could go on for hours upon hours stating each others opinions on a certain dog, and no everyone is going to agree on it. I know that I have better things to do rather than argue amongst people about such a open ended subject. So you dont like the breed of dog I own....Then dont come over to my house. So you think that they are extremely dangerous?? Then go in your house, lock the doors and dont come out. There are so many things that you could do to prevent such an attack on you or your family.

The whole thing about the lady who stuck her hand into the middle of a dog fight, I didnt mean to come off rude, but you sort of have to snicker when you see an act of stupidty. She could have used some type of weapon to help with the situation (i.e. broom stick, bat, mace, etc.) Common sense will tell you that you dont use your hand to flip burgers on an open flame, YOU USE A PAIR OF TONGS, OR A SPATULA. The same goes for a dog fight.

You guys can go on and argue about who is right and who is wrong until your blue in the face, but you will never get the other person to agree with you in a debate like this.

Sometimes you do have witty and funny comments. You were even headed in that direction for a while in this thread.

But that statement above just put you into "loon" territory. Maybe even future "moonbat" territory. You're too deliberate to be a true moonbat or loon. Is it a Los Angeles thing? Maybe a Tehrangeles thing?

If you think socialists and big government pussies are Republicans, or even on the so-called extreme right that you claim to fear... that says a lot about you. It says a lot about either your ignorance or whatever propaganda you are trying to push. I'm hoping we won't see a return to your days of outright anti-Americanism.

It seems more than obvious that you don't understand nor have any respect for the rule of law in this country. Maybe that too is a Tehrangeles thing. I don't know. I'm not sure I want to know.

You have a lot of pent up hatred Shahram. This isn't the only place you show it either. Did the Toyota board get tired of you?

Do you think anyone cares about your line of bullshit that I am somehow a purveyor of snuff films? You can cry all you want about that bullshit and manufactured outrage, but it is getting you nowhere.

Come back to reality Shahram. If I wanted to be an individual who liked to post stuff like that on XOC on a regular basis, there is more than enough things like that provided by your brethren from the Middle East. Their anger seems similar to yours.

For some reason it seems like you have a serious dislike of me. I refrained from saying hate, because I don't hate you. We have our disagreements, but that doesn't mean we always have to be disagreeable.

I didn't even bust your balls after you ran off the forum and then came back.

Basically... this a thread about dogs. Let's not get carried away insinuating racism, National Socialism, and every other kind of bullshit you want to throw into the picture just because someone happens to dislike certain types of dogs.

Can't we all just get along?

I feel you on that one NY

Do you know how many breeds fall into "pit bull type dogs"? Lots...If you put boxer/ pit/ amstaff/ american bulldog/ cane corso/ presa canara next to each other, most people couldn't pick out the APBT. And they all get lumped into the "pit bull type" That's not a breed, it's a generalization of a group of similiar looking (completely different) dogs. get your knowledge right.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by T-Ray:
[QB]My point is not that Pit Bulls are NOT dangerous, but that ALL dogs carry an inherent danger by their very nature. No single dog is born more dangerous than another.

Huh? So my Great Pyrenees is not more dangerous then Shahram's Pug? If Shahram's pug snaps and goes on a rampage what kind of damage will he do? My dog can do more damage when he's playing then a pack of Pugs could do pissed off. Size and physical strength are a VERY important factor of a breed's danger. To think otherwise is idiotic in my opinion. All dogs may have the same chance of biting but that doesn't make them the same in terms of being dangerous.

No offence to your Pug Shahram, I've owned several Pug's and they are a great breed.

Talk to any dog trainer or security dog trainer and they will tell you that 95% of dogs will NOT protect their home or owner from attack by an intruder, no matter how much they bark, growl, snarl when someone walk by the fence line or knocks at the door.

Rinky, I get it that you were trying to incite some fresh blood into the water here and I agree with you that the environment the dog is in makes all the difference...just like kids. No single dog is born 'bad', something happens along the way that triggers a response.

Im more worried about my moms cocker spaniel biting some one then I am about most of my friends pit bulls.

In my experience small dogs are much more likely to bite then big dogs, but I'd rather be bitten or attacked 10 times by a cocker spaniel then once by a pit bull or other strong/bigger breed.

Who's more dangerous to you Pee Wee Herman or John Cena? If Michael Jackson or Mike Tyson snap who do you want to fight?

I'm not against Pit Bulls at all or for banning them, but to say they aren't dangerous is stupid. All big breeds are dangerous because of the damage they can inflict. My Great Pyr is known as a gentle giant but I know he is dangerous just because of his size.

You guys are missing all of this. You have no idea how innocent a Pit Bull is compared to the dogs I had growing up.

When you looked at the 2 dogs I had when I was kid growing up, you would be feared. For you had never seen such a gruesome face in your entire life. I would almost guarantee you that if you saw them, you would run.

Pit Bulls got jack on my two basset hounds - Annie and Johnnie (no joke - Annie after the movie and Johnny because he was the fifth of the litter...you know Johnny 5?!).

You ever seen the EARS on them suckers? Oh...my...gosh..they could suffocate you from putting one of those gigandor ears over your mouth while you and you would never know..all you would get is the taste of wax...and by then it would be too late.

RIP Annie and Johnnie.

Um....huh?

Uh.....no.

Hey - Sharam's back!

When I said that 99% of people who claim they are leaving internet forums always return, usually in grand Han Solo-showing-up-and-shooting-the-tie-fighters-off-Luke's-six-while-he-blows-up-the-Deathstar like fashion, I never imagined it would be me he'd be swooping in to help.

As for what I advocate municipalities doing from here? How about licensing guidelines for people that want to own any dog breed that was originally bred for fighting. Make it a strict two strike and out policy. Anyone with a criminal record is not allowed period. Anyone that does get licensed and buys a pit bull will either have to move out of town or get their dog taken away if it is reported loose more than once. If your licensed pit bull attacks someone or another pet, same deal - license revoked for any further vicious breed ownership and you either move or find a new home for the dog. Depending on the individual incident, I'd be willing to give this last one two strikes before the owner had to give up their dog.

Lets not forget about the negative property value implications owning a vicious breed introduces. Hell, my town tickets if you keep your Christmas lights up too long. These laws are designed solely to keep property values up. There is a positive fiscal incentive to introduce regulations to owning vicious breeds. After all, what "typical American family" with 2.2 kids wants to move right next door to a house with pit bulls running around?!?

Would these regulations be too strict? I don't think so. My idea would still leave plenty of "outs" for all of you that have truely harmless pits and are responsible owners.

That seems sort of dumb. I'd rather not be attacked at all. To each his own I guess. Ill get that circus of angry Cockers together. grab my buddies and some beer and sit back and watch an army of angry spaniels devour your ankles. itll be a blasty blast!!

Evidently you struggle with reading comprehension. I said bitten 10 times by a Cocker Spaniel, not bitten by 10 Cockers. The choice was being bitten 10 times by a cocker or once by a big breed...your choice.

I realize you were trying to be funny, but I think you swung and missed.

Well my cock is bigger than your cock which means I can f**k more chicks, so that makes me cooler than you.

Yeah, but my F-150 is waaaay taller than yours, and my tribal skull paint job is waaaaay tougher.

I've seen many news stories crying 'Pit Bull' regardless of the breed. Remember, they are the assault weapon of the dog world. :rolleyes:

I think (hope?) Rinky was being funny.

Most people have no idea what a Pit Bull even looks like. Do you?

Well Calmini stuff is better than SLR and I know because I have a Calmini sticker on my truck. (kidding of course)

Nice link, pluvo.

COOL IN DENIAL

Well Tim, in all honesty it took me 3 or 4 tries to get it right & I like to think I know a thing or two about dogs.

Damn I am good I picked it right on the first try.

Of course RiNkY was (trying) to be funny. You know I am a responsible Glock owner and don't go around shooting peoples dogs for fun.

I guess Pit Bull on the 2nd guess. First one I went with #7 because of the ears, which was:

hmmm...As I stand here in an utter daze and amazement I do realize that I might have a problem with reading comprehension. Thanks for pointing that out guy! But I dont think that I am alone. To clarify things a bit, I will explain what I meant. "cockers" would be an abbreviated term for Cocker Spaniel. I know that is rather tough for you to comprehend. And no I wasnt really trying to be funny. I would love to see you get mauled by 10 "COCKER SPANIELS" That would sure make my day smart ass. LOL

hmmm...As I stand here in an utter daze and amazement I do realize that I might have a problem with reading comprehension. Thanks for pointing that out guy! But I dont think that I am alone. To clarify things a bit, I will explain what I meant. "cockers" would be an abbreviated term for Cocker Spaniel. I know that is rather tough for you to comprehend. And no I wasnt really trying to be funny. I would love to see you get mauled by 10 "COCKER SPANIELS" That would sure make my day smart ass. LOL[/QB][/QUOTE]

Jesus Christ you still don't get it. I'm aware a Cocker is short for a Cocker Spaniel. My point was I said I would rather be bitten 10 seperate times by 1 Cocker Spaniel, not bitten by a pack of Cocker Spaniels. My original point was that in my view smaller dogs are likely to bite more often but do less damage, hence the "I'd rather be bitten 10 times instead of once by a big breed." I'd don't think I'm too worried about your roaming pack of wild Cockers.

Buy a fucking clue next time....dumb ass.

Sorry, but I can't help but laugh at the thought of a pack of evil little yappy dogs on the prowl.

Rinky - you need to get Bean a spiked collar so everyone can see him for the little terror he is.

There seems to be plenty of news stories regarding pit bulls. Almost all of them bad.

A quick Google News search yields these results....

Link...

Even 20 pages into the search results and almost all of the stories are still relatively recent.

Most of the time, as far as the media is concerned, there are only 3 breeds of dog:

Pit Bull - scourge of society, eat children, should be banned and/or shot on sight.

Police dog - not German Shepard or Rottweiler, but apparently a breed unto itself & just like their human counterparts they can do no wrong.

Generic 'mixed breed' dog - used when they can't get away with calling it a Pit Bull, these are even more evil because they would slip past breed bans.

CBS had a 'fair & balanced' take on dog bites today.

In other (older) news:

According to a 27-year study of dogs in the New York City area made by Dr. Robert Oleson, of the U.S. Public Health Service, these are the 9 dogs most apt to take a nibble out of a human being. They are, in the order of their aggressiveness:

1. German shepherd

2. Chow chow

3. Poodle

4. Italian bulldog

5. Fox terrier

6. Mixed chow chow

7. Airedale

8. Pekingese

9. Mixed German shepherd

Funny, they seem to have missed the evil dogs. :rolleyes:

I did notice that German Sheperd (the de facto police dog) made the list twice. I wonder if this data includes law enforcement use of force like the firearm death stats do. Too bad I can't find the original study online to verify that.

Check out #s 3 & 8. Forget the sharks with frikin' laser beams on their heads, Dr. Evil is just one pack of feral Pekingese away from world domination.

Pluvo - that stat has absolutely no bearing on our discussion.

As was stated earlier, the danger isn't in the likelyhood of a dog to bite - it's in the destruction a dog can do while biting.

And simply looking at one town is flawed as well, since NYC is an urban area - of course smaller dogs will be higher on the list since that is the preference of those living in urban areas.

C'mon man. We've covered this already.

Didn't you leave out "working dogs" like seeing eye dogs for the blind?

I don't think I've ever seen a pit bull type dog used as seeing eye dogs or too many other categories of working dogs. Am I wrong?

I also think that animal control services in most cities know the difference between a pit bull type dog and other breeds of dogs. Animal control is usually involved in these incidents prior to their being reported in the media.

Quote:

According to a 27-year study of dogs in the New York City area made by Dr. Robert Oleson, of the U.S. Public Health Service, these are the 9 dogs most apt to take a nibble out of a human being. They are, in the order of their aggressiveness:

New York City is very close to banning pit bull ownership. There is a bill currently in the New York City Council that would ban ownership of these types of dogs.

I'm not saying I agree with it. The NYC Council is loaded with an assortment of kooks that want to ban all sorts of things.

I think there may have been restrictions on pit bull ownership enacted in the Bronx and Queens counties within the last year or so.

These dogs are favorites of drug dealers and all other types of vermin here in New York.

I think you may have missed the CDC report that claims pit bull type dogs are responsible for a third of all human deaths caused by dog attacks.

So by your "of course" statment, you are saying a German Shepard and a Chow are "small" dogs? Considering they're #1 and 2 on the list?

Not to mention, a Pit Bull Terrior, is just that; a Terrior, and is actually a relatively small dog, so once again, by your own "of course" line of thinking, the Pit OUGHT to be higher on the list, but alas, is not.

It appears the results do not justify your conclusions. And THAT is relevant to the discussion.

Disclaimer:

I just had one of my dogs killed last Thursday morning, May 3rd, by a Pit. I do not blame the dog. I blame the owners (my inlaws) who thought it would be a good idea to put our pugs in an enclosed dog run with a dog that doesn't get along well with others, and then leave the house for an hour. So don't even try to get on your high horse with me about how it's all the dog's fault.

In almost EVERY situation, it's the OWNER'S fault for doing something stupid that allows a dog (any dog, for that matter) to be in a situation where they may bite another. Whether that's allowing a dog to roam freely, leaving a dog to be an "outside" dog with no interactions, essentially creating a wild animal, or in Vick-like cases where there's actual dog fighting training camp, it STILL falls back on the dumbass owner's shoulders.

In my case, the other dog could have been anything higher on the food chain than my pug, and the result would have been the same.

What kind of news stories were you expecting? Pit bulls lick more people in the month of May than April? News stories only cover problems in society. Type in anything and you will get "negative" stories. Gun, weapon, even cop (just for you MM) brought up articles not generally supporting any of those topics.

Type in the names of other breeds of dogs into the Google News search and you will find the answer for yourself.

Sorry for your loss Porsche.

Oops, I sure did forget working dogs. These just might be the most dangerous since they pretend to be helpful just to gain access to helpless victims. How sinister. :rolleyes:

Do you mean this report:

"A CDC study on fatal dog bites lists the breeds involved in fatal attacks over 20 years (Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998). It does not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy-making decisions related to the topic. Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 12 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill." (emphasis mine)

To paraphrase Inigo Montoya (from The Princess Bride): "I do not think it means what you think it means."

The only thing that study shows is that the most dangerous 'breed' is 'unrestrained dog' (82% or deaths) which isn't exactly a breed now is it?

I'm not sure what caused these dangerous creatures to suddenly appear in the last 50 years or so. Maybe it was the A-bomb. Can you imagine what would've happened had our ancestors been faced with cohabitating with canines for, say, the last 20,000 (some say 100,000 ) years or so?

With no nobody to ban them, they would've eaten all the babies & early man would've died out.

Otay!!!

Here's the first 5 news stories for "German Shepard":

1) Camden Co. Boy Attacked by German Shepard
2) Police looking for dog that bit girl
3) Agression between Dogs
4) Cicero police investigate dog attack
5) Dogs bite five-year old girl to death.

What was your point, again?

If in fact it's in the destruction a dog can do while biting well then why the hell have you been singling out pits? I don't think anyone disagrees that a pit can really damage another animal with their bite, but to not mention the sheppard’s, akitas, great danes, rottis, etc... makes me question your statement above. Do you not believe the dogs I mentioned are capable of a maiming bite? News flash, slick. They are and they do.

So,help me understand what the real point of your gripe is. Is it about the or is it
???????

You are avoiding the question.

Why aren't pit bull type dogs used as working dogs? If these dogs are as great as you seem to be claiming, surely they would be worthy of joining the ranks of other breeds that are chosen as working dogs.

Quote:

I'm not sure what caused these dangerous creatures to suddenly appear in the last 50 years or so. Maybe it was the A-bomb. Can you imagine what would've happened had our ancestors been faced with cohabitating with canines for, say, the last 20,000 (some say 100,000 ) years or so?

With no nobody to ban them, they would've eaten all the babies & early man would've died out.

You are getting very ridiculous and not even taking the subject seriously.

Regarding breeds of dogs, it is my understanding that most breeds of dogs have been created by man within the last 100-150 years.

The pit bull types of dogs were bred for a specific purpose.

It may seem to you that I am taking sides in this debate. I am merely pointing out that the argument that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners, is not a very strong argument and doesn't really hold up too well in light of statistics.

The argument that pit bulls just get a bad rap because of some ingrained bias on the part of the public doesn't hold water.

The point was more than obvious.

Nothing even comes close to the sheer volume of articles and data regarding pit bulls and attacks by pit bulls.

You can go 30 pages into the Google News search on pit bulls and still not even cover the last month alone.

That doesn't tell you something about these types of dogs?

Because they're TERRIERS... I don't see a whole lot of other Terrier breeds doing a whole lot of working, either. A Cairne, Scottish, etc. terrier wouldn't exactly be a good hunting dog, herding dog, or other WORKING dog, either... Doesn't make them less "great".

Or do you believe a dog has to be a working breed in order to have a use? My pug has absolutely no "working" function whatsoever. My two Great Danes are technically "working dogs," but I can't get them to get their lazy asses off their futon for anything other than food...

Best I can tell is, your "point" is that you have an opinion that isn't backed up by actual facts. And that's fine; everyone can have their own opinion. Right up until you try to claim your opinion IS based on facts, in which case you just come across as extremely misinformed. It's like a racist that tries to say a black man can't be a quarterback, 'cause his brain is smaller, even after all the research, literature, etc. PROVES that opinion is a crock of shiite.

Your opinion is not based on facts. Again, that's perfectly ok. Most opinions aren't fact-based...that's why they're OPINIONS...

At the end of the day, anybody can make a fighting dog out of ANY breed of dog, and anybody can make a fun-loving, family oriented dog out of ANY breed of dog. It's the owner, not the dog.

LOL. I just ran a Google news search on "Golden Retriever" and got nothing but hearwarming and entertaining stories for the first two pages, so I moved it up to "Golden Retriever attack".

The first hit on that search? A story about a pit bull crashing through the screen door of someone's house and ripping some poor guy's lab to shreds (and this happened in the county that I live in!). Here's the link (by the way, this happened Tuesday night!!)

Yet Another Pit Bull Attack

One of the people on the county's task force to come up with viscious dog legislation owns a 1 year old Golden. That's why the article hit.

It's only that many stories, because sensationalism sells newspapers, and the majority of Americans are stupid. (There, I said it; the "average" American is just that; average. Which ain't all that bright....)

There are so many different breeds of terriers, and only 1 is technically the American Pit Bull. But anytime any dog attacks, if he happens to have short hair, weigh between 30 and 50 lbs, and have a bull-nosed head side profile, it'll be called a "pit bull" or a "part pit-bull" regardless of whether or not it even has any Pit Bull blood in it. But the "average" American has no earthly idea as to what a Pit Bull even is, let alone be able to know the difference between a Pit and, say, the Stadfordshire Terrier. They aren't the same (as I've learned in the past few years), but when it comes to a police report, they'll be considered the same regardless.

So that is your answer.... American's are stupid?

The dogs are wonderful. It is Americans that are the problem.

You didn't notice that some of the articles describing attacks by pit bull type dogs were from other countries like Australia, Canada and England too?

The UK regulates pit bull ownership. I think parts of Canada also regulates or bans ownership of these dogs. Is that also the fault of these "stupid Americans"?

The only fault I find with some Americans regarding dogs is that many have a tendency to "humanize" them to a certain degree.

Upon further review of "Golden Retriever Attack" - the majority of stories revolve around Goldens getting attacked and ripped to shreds by......you guessed it - pit bulls.

The amount of "coincidences" here are astronomical.

The second hit on Goolge for " Golden Retriever Attack "

No, I'm saying an awful lot of attacks are made by dogs that are not actually Pit Bulls. Or when a dog is a complete mixed breed that happens to have a similiar profile as a Pit, and all the sudden it's a "Pit Bull mixed breed," instead of the mutt that it really is.

I agree that most dogs are mutts or mixed breed.

I also agree that the term 'pit bull' probably does cover a few varieties of dogs within the general vernacular.

However, I think most dogs pegged as pit bulls all probably have some pit bull in them or are mixed versions of mutts all within the Molosser family of dog breeds. That makes them almost the same as genuine pit bulls with the same traits.

You do realize that you're linking to a pro-pit bull propoganda website, right?

See - that's why it's so tough to get the obviously needed legislation passed. The silent majority isn't out there creating goofy ass 9/11 conspiracy-esque websites to defend their point of view.

If you want anyone here to actually put stock in a link, try NOT using a we-didn't-land-on-the-moon single purpose driven website.

Adding to that - I'd EXPECT nothing but stories about Golden Retriever attacks on people and property if I search on "Golden Retriever attack".

So why is it that over half the stories deal with other breeds (mainly pit bull) wreaking havoc??

Geezus, the first story on there is about a pit bull from MY COUNTY busting through a closed door like the Kool Aid Man in order to kill one pet and thrash another.

How much more goddam evidence do you people need??

I also noticed the Google News search for "Golden Retriever attack" yielded only 105 hits.

Many of them referred to pit bull attacks on Golden Retrievers or owners of Golden Retrievers.

Here was an interesting one from Austin, TX:

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/stories/050207kvuedogs-bkm.2f2df250.html

Agreed. That was a piss poor example on my part.

I read that one, too. Here are a couple quotes from the article:

and

As I said earlier, my concern isn't so much when a dog leads in bites, since a small dog can lead that category and it's not going to do major damage. But when a dog with brute strength like a pit bull ALSO leads in the category of most bites - that's a double whammy that needs to be dealt with ASAP before more people die.

NY: if you would feel better about it, try this google search:

Golden+Retriever+bite

With a sample from a Golden Retriever rescue

Oh my... A rescue society that deals specifically with Golden Retrievers acknowledges that there are some retrievers that bite...

And here's a VERY good read from the "Dog Whisperer" website:

To Bite or Not to Bite - C.W. Meisterfeld, Ph. D.

And a quick quote:

What made it interesting was the article started out giving statistics about pit bulls.

Then it took a bizarre twist with quotes from the over the top pit bull dog lovers. This one was the most bizarre...

To think that idiot is a doctor.

We are searching for news articles. Not pro-pit bull or pro-dog web sites.

Do a Google News search for those same words "Golden Retriever bite" and it yields only 104 hits. Some of which are duplicate stories and a few are about pit bulls.

Link...

NBC news item

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say a retreiver bites as often as a Pit. What I'm saying is, a dog biting/attacking has virtually nothing to do with what breed it is, but rather has everything to do with how its raised. It's a learned behavior, NOT a genetic one.

What's strange is, it seems the media goes through different phases on what breed of dog to blame things one. When I was a little kid, it was the Doberman Pinscher that was the spurn of the earth. Then for a while it was the Rotties. And nowadays, it's the Pit.

I just wish they'd focus more on the dead-beat owners that raise their dog wrong, and are the root of the problem in the first place.

Maybe that's just reflective of whatever the "popular" strong breed is at the time. The more people own a breed, the more attacks there'll be. *Anecdote Alert* Seems to me that Dobermans were way more popular 20 years ago than they are now.

I'm sure Jack Russell Terrier bites are up 1000% over what they were 10 years ago, too. A punctured thumb isn't likely to make the news though.

There is only partial truth to what you have just said.

With dogs like Pit Bulls and Rotts ... maybe even Dobermans, you have to work harder to keep them behaved and disciplined. More so than other breeds such as say ... Collies.

The statistics and numbers don't align with the 'it's always the owner's fault' line of thinking.

Pit Bull type dogs aren't even the most populous dogs in the country, yet they rack up the largest numbers of deaths of humans and attacks.

That negates the argument that it is always the owner's fault.

Are you trying to say that bad and lazy people tend to gravitate toward owning Pit Bull type dogs and Rotts?

I would tend to doubt that.

The web site Wikipedia is loaded with a lot of false information, but according to them, the most popular dogs in the US are the following....

* 1. Labrador Retriever
* 2. Yorkshire Terrier
* 3. German Shepherd
* 4. Golden Retriever
* 5. Beagle
* 6. Dachshund
* 7. Boxer
* 8. Poodle
* 9. Shih Tzu
* 10.Miniature Schnauzer

I will try to verify that with another source.

If other breeds of dog have larger populations, why are pit bulls racking up the largest number of incidents and carnage?

What about the story I just linked to? The attack that happened two days ago in a community 20 minutes from my house (I linked to it on the last page)?

I sincerely doubt that the owner trained that pit bull to crash through closed doors and go on killing sprees in other people's homes.

Sounds to me like a clear cut case of a pit doing what a pit was bred to do. Pure genetics at work.

Again - this isn't sensationalizing at all. I'm using an example that happened less than 48 hours ago in my own county of residence.

Wish I was filming the day I had been walking my Akita (on a leash) in a public park, when a moron with his equally moronic Golden Retriever, allowed his dog to walk right up to Shoki's face, whereupon he (moron dog) growled and snapped at Shoki. "Oh, I didn't know he'd do that.." was moron humans response.
What kind of dog do you own again Kevin?

As to the "most popular" dog breed, it would be awfully difficult for anyone to say with certainty if "pit-bull mix" dogs are or are not the most numerous, 'cause frankly, the majority of "mutt" owners in general don't have any means of being tracked.

From looking at the AKC registrations, you can see that the following dogs that are commonly called, "Pit Bulls," by the previously defined stupid Americans are:

Boxer - #7
Bull Terrier - #61
American Staffordshire Terrier - #66
Staffordshire Bull Terrier - #80

AKC 2006 registration rankings

There's no ranking for "American Pit Bull," because that's not a breed the AKC recognizes, so all of the rankings that are out there, and based on the AKC rankings are useless. An Amstaff is different than a APBT, even though some dogs can be registered as an Amstaff to the AKC, and a APBT to other registration organizations.

I would also go with the assumption that the majority of "pit bull" owners are not registered with the AKC, or any association for that matter... It is not usually a purebreed & registered APBT or Amstaff that is involved in attack incidence.

It was a screen door...

Let me give you something to think about. About 3 years ago, I was at my in-laws house. Our two pugs were with us. The older one (incidentally, the one that died last week) all-the-sudden shot out of the living room, through the screen door w/o even slowing down or missing a step, grabbed a cat in its mouth, and then both animals fell off the deck, 'cause Peanut's momentum was WAY too much for him to stop...

Was it because I trained him to, "crash through closed doors and go on killing spree"? Was it poor ownership? Probably not. In my particular case, it turns out that Peanuts just plain didn't like that f*ing cat. He never had any problems around any other cat; just that 1.

I don't know what happened in your county with this particular dog-on-dog attack. It could have been similiar to my situation, where 1 dog just plain didn't like the other one, and took care of business. Or it could have been something different.

But I can say one thing with certainty: it had nothing to do with what breed of dog it was that caused it to "break in" to the house and attack the other dog. There was something mentally going on between those two dogs, not genetically, that caused the attack in the first place.

Couple quick hit thoughts:

First of all auditor, who gives a crap that the attack happened in your area.

Everyone keeps harping that the most popular breeds don't include pit bulls so that the attack number per capita is huge. What you aren't realizing (and should be thanks to the find a pit quiz link reference earlier) is that pit bull isn't a breed, but a category. When you search a list and see german shepherd or golden, you aren't going to find pit. You will have to add up all the different breeds' numbers to get an accurate count of "pit bulls." Do this and the attack per capita is no more shocking that german shepherds and akitas.

Also, when NYMM says "Are you trying to say that bad and lazy people tend to gravitate toward owning Pit Bull type dogs and Rotts?", that is exactly the case. Pit bulls have a negative image and if you are trying to own a dog for a less than savory purpose, you go with what you know. Someone trying to train a junkyard dog isn't going to spend time researching or paying the high price of a trainable purebred. They're going off of perception and availability. Pit bull covers a huge swath of breeds and most are a mix. These dogs don't have to come from a breeder, but can be found at rescue shelters. To someone looking for an intimidating dog, a "pit" can be found easily and will have the desired effect since apparently 90% of the population (as evidenced by this board alone) are afraid of these killers.

While I have contributed nothing to this thread, it appears to me a lot of exchanges are based on personal views. My proposal is to go back to the Rosie discussion and talk about something really important.

"Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals - coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds live to chase and maul rabbits and even dog-like coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will slaughter a rabbit, given the chance.

And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the pit bulldog. His work through the years has been control of other animals - never humans. A correct pit bull is more often than not submissive toward all humans, and adores children.

A pit bull that snarls, lunges or growls at non-threatening humans is NOT typical of the breed." (Written by Diane Jessup)
Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans are not typical of the breed and should be humanely euthanized.

Understanding the pit bull's possible dog aggression is a necessary part of responsible ownership.

I wonder if a Pit can "Beat a dead horse to death " too

Hey, I've never said the breed is perfect and always predictable. But the incidents that DO occur with Goldens are far less often and when they do occur, usually involve far less damage in comparison to pit bulls.

Akitas can be some pretty nasty dogs, too, but the ones I've come across seem to be exponentially smarter than the typical pit bulls I've interacted with.

Again, both of our interactions are based on anecdotes - so take it for what it's worth.

Well......me? Being a strong supporter of strengthening the laws on owning viscious breeds in my area, every local incident is worthy of note.

When I can pull out examples of "pits gone wild" less than 48 hours old and in my immediate area, I think it also demonstrates vividly to the participants of the thread just how often these attacks are occuring.

I can pull the same stuff on just about any other type of dog!!!!

Thats just as dumb as saying that Great White Sharks have the most amount of human attacks so lets go kill them even though we kill millions of sharks compared to a few people a year!!!!

Tim

are ya'll still arguing about this.

Yep its like the question:
Should Vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Ruh-roh....

How can you tell a good breeder from a mere average breeder, or worse a for profit only backyard breeder?

One that actively focuses on their bloodlines and genetics, and breeds for temperament as much as looks.

Certain breeds were breed, often for centuries, for certain tasks.

I subscribe to a local CSA . They have a great peranese. Sweetest dog in the world - on open house days, kids will be hanging all over it - an aside from looking pained it would never do anything (and hasn't in over 10 years). But bring any animal - including another dog - into her territory and it's dead. They specifically warn people to NOT bring their animals with them to the farm. It's a working breed, and has been used by farmers for centuries to protect their farms. It's genetic, and it's part of the breeds temperament. Every try to keep a boarder collie from herding small animals or kids? I have friends with BC's and it's fun to watch them freak out while the kids are playing soccer

You can rationalize all you want - but if you have kids, or there are kids in your neighborhood and you own a pit bull, your an idiot. Probably going to piss some people off - oh well. There are reasonable risks in life, and there are unreasonable risks. There are too many breeds out there to have to "prove a point" by potentially mauling a child or someone else. The statistics and body of evidence simply aren't on your side. Do idiot owners who intently make their dogs anti-social worsen the situation? Sure - doesn't take rocket science to see that. But it's far from being the sole factor.

Lets see here:

65 Million Dogs in the USA.

Roughly 2% of the US population is bitten a year

of that 800,000 require medical care.

368,000 go to the ER for treatment. (not just bactin and a band aid)

1 in 151,565 of dying by a dog.

From 1979 to 1996 304 people were killed by dogs...wow!!!! thats a whopping roughly 18 people a year DAMN!!!!!!!! Here are some pretty good examples of bad dogs....or stupid ass people.

A man was bitten in the forearm by a Pit bull. The bite was not serious but introduced into the wound was a virulent and fast spreading bacteria. The man died 4 days later from this virulent bacterial infection.

A teenage girl give birth to a infant, distraught and frightened, she tossed the hours-old infant into a neighboring-junk-strewn yard where two Pit bulls resided. The dogs killed the newborn.

A German shepherd mixed breed dog went into a bedroom, lifted a newborn out of a crib and carried the infant (by the head) into the living room where the adults were seated.

A man restrains his girlfriend, while ordering his Pit bull to repeatedly attack her. He is eventually convicted of murder and is serving a 20-year sentence.

An elderly man attempts to stop his German Shepherd dog from fence fighting with his neighbor's dog, the dog turns on his owner, severely mauling him, inflicting fatal head and neck wounds.

Lets do some more stats shall we now:

You stand a better chance of dying from the following than from a dog:

Railway accident 1:6170
Motor Vehicle 1:80
Pedestrian 1:578
Drowning 1:7401
Bee Sting 1:77466
Volcanic Eruption 1:83000
Bathtub 1:10564
Suicide 1:113
Death Sentence 1:10344

So it looks like we have lots of other worries like a Volcanic Eruption to worry about as opposed to a dog killing ya!!!!!

Now for the sobering reality:

In 1997 alone there were:

56% of dogs that are sheltered are euthanized

only 15% of dogs are reunited with their families

only 25% of dogs are adopted

That comes out to 9.6 million animals (dogs and cats) killed each single YEAR in the US.

Even if a modest 20% of those are dogs (which is acutally much higher) 1,920,000 dogs are killed by humans each year.

So we have 18 humans killed by dogs a year versus 1.9 million of them......sounds like we should be protecting dogs from humans and not the other way around huh!!!!!

Tim

Toddler's mother charged
By Nita Birmingham (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Saturday, May 12, 2007

A Dorchester County sheriff's detective on Friday arrested the mother of a toddler fatally mauled by the family's pit bull but said the criminal charge of unlawful conduct goes beyond the animal attack.

The Department of Social Services had a long-term involvement with Natasha Wilson's family, Detective John Garrison said, though he declined to be more specific.

"There's so many things involved in this. The animal attack made it a tragedy. The crime still existed," Garrison said.

Unlawful conduct toward a child includes abandoning a child; risking life;,physical or mental health or safety; and inflicting physical harm. It's a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

The affidavit states that Wilson put her 18-month-old son, Brian Palmer, at unreasonable risk of harm by leaving him in the care of other young children in a home with a violent animal.

Wilson, 24, surrendered to sheriff's deputies around noon Friday. Magistrate Tera Richardson set bail at $25,000. Wilson made no comment during a teleconference appearance from the jail.

Wilson had gone to see about some rental housing April 23 when Brian was attacked by the 2-year-old pit bull. The 60-pound dog was a stray taken in by Wilson about seven months earlier. Wilson has been a dog groomer for about a year, she told the magistrate Friday. Her cousin said after the attack that Wilson works six days a week.

The dog had gotten out of the utility room in Wilson's Hunters Ridge Lane townhouse in North Charleston and chased a 16-year-old girl who is afraid of dogs upstairs to a bedroom, where it attacked Brian. He died the next day at Medical University Hospital from bite wounds to his neck and airway.

The dog had killed a relative's cat the week before, family members have said. They said the dog was never aggressive toward people and attributed the attack to a dislike of other animals.

Garrison's affidavit addresses the dog's prior aggression but also cites other issues that pre-date the April attack by eight months.

The dog wasn't properly cared for, and had never been examined to determine its health but was allowed to mix with children in the home, Garrison said. In addition to the cat, detectives learned that the pit bull had attacked the dog of a visitor, Garrison said.

Wilson would leave Brian in the care of other children with no adult supervision, the affidavit states. The day of the attack, there were four other children in the townhouse, ranging from ages 2 to 16, Wilson's cousin said at the time.

Wilson's conduct toward the children continued even after repeated visits by DSS, Garrison said.

"This is cumulative. It wasn't one incident," he said. "The dog is not on trial. It's the care or lack of care that led up to the attack."

Wilson could still have faced the charge of unlawful conduct toward a child, even without the attack on Brian, if the issues had come to the attention of deputies, Garrison said.

The Sheriff's Office was never notified of problems in the home, he said.

"It's a DSS judgment call. That's left up to them. They do the best they can do with what they have, just like we do," he said.

The pit bull also could have been declared a dangerous animal under a Dorchester County ordinance had someone told authorities that the dog had previously attacked a cat, Dorchester County Animal Control Supervisor Officer Melissa McKee has said. The dog was euthanized after the fatal attack last month. A rabies test was negative.

The animal rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals asked Dorchester County Council to ban or restrict new ownership of pit bulls after Brian's death. Protesters against banning the breed showed up at Monday's council meeting, but the issue wasn't on the agenda. State law doesn't allow the county to declare a breed of dog dangerous, Administrator Jason Ward said.

Well done Tim.

The vocal minority at it again......

Because they're TERRIERS... I don't see a whole lot of other Terrier breeds doing a whole lot of working, either. A Cairne, Scottish, etc. terrier wouldn't exactly be a good hunting dog, herding dog, or other WORKING dog, either... Doesn't make them less "great".

Or do you believe a dog has to be a working breed in order to have a use? My pug has absolutely no "working" function whatsoever...[/QUOTE]

Actually, that's not true. Terriers are essentially working dogs, and their functions, historically speaking, were for hunting, especially varminting. If you want a dog to burrow down into a hole and kill a badger, you couldn't do much better than a Scottish Terrier.

Your Pug, on the other hand, was bred purely for entertainment and companionship. I have an English book, printed in the late 19th Century, that describes the Pug's history in England as misunderstood. A Chinese text, used for decades as a history of the breed, was mistranslated. It was originally understood that the Pug was not only a companion, but a "fighting" dog, meant to entertain royalty in matches which would go on for hours. This was puzzling, considering that a Pug is hardly capable of killing anything, much less another Pug. A subsequent translation revealed that the text indicated that the Pug was not a fighting dog, but a "wrestling" dog, which would "fight" with other Pugs for hours. Which makes a lot more sense.

So, there's your dog geek tidbit for the week.

Pit Bull Attacks Citizen At The Same Moment City Council Debates Breed Ban

Eh, I was going to link to more pit bull attack stories but to be perfectly honest - it would take the hours of a part time job to document them all. Just google news search "pit bull attack" to see daily attacks from every corner of the country.

Holy fuck dude.......your just an idiot.

Like I posted before....

18 dead people a year=sad but thats life versus

1.9 million dead dogs=maybe we are the problem here!!!!

Tim

I came face to face with a whole pack of Pit Bulls the other day.



I ran the hell outta there Full Throttle.



When I got home, I though some Cocaine might settle my nerves.

[img]http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/xoxide_1947_103387088[/img]

Instead it got me all Crunk.



And I was all Amp'd up.



I felt like some kind of Rock Star.



But when crash I always turn into some kind of Monster.



And wake up feeling like somebody kicked me in the Bawls.

booo!!!!!

Who's advocating killing 1.9 million dogs here? And where did that number come from??

Wouldn't better regulation and stiffer penalties for breaking those regulations actually benefit the pit bulls themselves, since they wouldn't fall into the hands of the scumbag owners that use them to fight?

Vicious killers I tell ya\'..