Searching...inefficient, but Effective.

Wasn't sure where to put this post. It could have gone in the following sub headings:

Prob. and Annoyances
Performance
Backyard Mechanic
General
4wd
Suggestions for XOC

As you read further, you'll know why.

I was on a trail this weekend (4wd) and my X started to overheat (Prob. and Annoy. OR Backyard Mech.) I was puzzled, b/c it wasn't that hot of a day, my X has never come close to overheating. I got up Sun. morning and did a search on possible causes. Like the title says, the search took longer than expected and was inefficient but was rather effective. I ruled out a thermostat and faulty fan clutch. I discovered a post by Ian saying that mud, as trivial as it may be, was the reason why the cooling capacity of BOTH radiators were very poor causing my X to start to overheat.

Now I said all of that (admittedly inefficient) to say this...

The searching funtion is a great tool, but it needs some enhancments (does this mean this post belongs in the Suggestions for XOC sub heading?)

I would like to say that I appreciate this Forum and it's searching function b/c it allowed me to diagnose a problem before my big trail run this coming weekend.

IceChickenX

I read further...

I still don't know why.

What "enhancements" do you suggest? I searched four topics for the word "overheating" and got responses in every one of them. What more would you like it to do? There's many different possibilites of why an engine overheats, I'm guessing that's why there's several topics in different areas.

I'm a little confused, it found what you were looking for but you want it to do more? Please add to your comments of how it could be better.

Thanks.

Don't get me wrong...it returned exactly what I needed, but I think it could have been faster.

Can we add an option for searching the whole forum and not specific sub headings? If that option was chosen, the results would return the user's input 'keyword' and what subheading it's contained in. It would help in narrowing down search topics and their respective locations.

I guess my trouble in searching came in what topic does/did "Overheating" fall under? It could have been in one of the five sub headings:

Prob. and Annoyances
Performance
Backyard Mechanic
General
4wd

I also didn't want to be accused of cross-posting.
I don't know the board as well as Ian and Brent. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a retard if I've missed something.

I'm an engineer, so anything and everything has the potential of being better (or maybe I'm being to anal...who knows?)

IceChickenX

Full-forum searching has been enabled and disabled (and discussed) in the past, but Ian has it off because it's such a system resource hog.
If people were more intelligent about where they post in the first place, the searching would be more effective. Every time a post is in the wrong forum (like this one and gets moved (like this one it puts another glitch in the index resulting in a "you have requested a topic that does not exist" notice. If you search General for "overheat" in the last day, you'll get a hit on this thread, but if you click it, it'll do just that... See what I mean?

Brent

Yeah, I see what you mean. That's cool...I can understand that the full forum searching can be a resource hog. Didn't mean to cause trouble.

IceChickenX

No trouble, at least you're thinking!

Brent,
You have a PM.

Someday it will all be fixed. Someday. Patience

What the hell does that mean? Am I supposed to have ESP to know ahead of time where all the "appropriate" topics are?

That's why this whole subject is so silly - let the @%#$ computer do the work - we need global search. Until Ian either switches software or hardware (i.e. changes the resource side of the equation) this is a moot point.

Quit trying to push it off on people, it's not a people problem, it's a technology problem.

If you really are going to complain that people don't post in the right forum, then there needs to be a defined list of subjects per forum, and the moderators need to (gasp!) move posts to the "appropriate" forum - whatever the hell that means.

Sorry, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine. It's EXTREMLY annoying and time consuming to do what IceChickenX did, and I feel his pain - but it is NOT the problem of people posting. If it matters that much than the Mod's need to do the clean up.

If the existing mods don't want to, hell I'll do it as long as someone defines the "right" place for everything to go so these little guessing games are a thing of the past :p

They already are. Each forum name is very descriptive, and includes a sub-heading describing the forum in more detail.

Many times (for example) I see someone post about wheels in the General forum, and that's just plain lazy.

If people can't take 1 minute of their time to figure out where their post belongs, they shouldn't bother posting.

My question would be then...where would a subject like "overheating" go? It's not clearly defined. According to the current descriptions, the only appropriate heading would be "Drivetrain" b/c it lists "Engine" as a topic.

I agree about the posting of wheels in the General forum though.

IceChickenX

I'd say overheating is a problem, wouldn't you?

Could also be "Warranty, Service and Repair"

IceChickenX

And I wholehartedly agree. But we aren't talking about that. I think IceChickenX is brining up a somewhat valid point - at least no one has answered his original question yet... If people are going to be expected to know where to post things, then as things like these come up it would be nice to see them added to the descriptions or put somewhere - like a taxonomy. Good god, I've been hanging out in too many tech classes this month :p

And Ian, I'm not beating up on you for lack of global search - OK, I am I understand what it takes to keep a site like this rujnning - doesn't mean I still can't be impatient about the (hopefully!) upgrade

No, that is for warranty service or repair.

If your post was "My Xterra is overheating", it would go into Problems and annoyances.

If your post was "How can I stop my Xterra from overheating?", it would go into Backyard Mechanic.

If your post was "Is overheating a warranty issue?", it would go into Warranty, Service and Repair.

If your post was "My Xterra is overheating, where can I get a new radiator?", it would go into Parts and Accessories.

It all comes down to the wording of the question and the answers you wish to receive, don't think of it strictly as one term like "overheating".

This isn't rocket science, it's very easy to do. I have 13000 posts and have yet to make one in the wrong forum.

Yeah, but you made up the rules - I hope it would be easy for you

I'll bet the yellow pages makes perfect sense to the folks that set up the index too

Now that's not quite fair...your the creator of this forum...so you know exactly where to put things.

I don't mean to be a pest...but when you say, "It all comes down to the wording of the question...", I agree. But, I took your first example, "My Xterra is overheating" and I cut and paste these exact words in the search function, specifically to look in the "Problems and Annoyances" section like you suggested...

It was returned with "Your search did not return any results". The other examples you gave wouldn't fit into the "Search Words" field. Now, I'm using your argument against you (playing devils advocate) for this reason: I'm familiar with the board well enough to know that the example above wasn't going to work. But, a new person who comes to the board doesn't know this won't work...whence the reason why they ask redundant questions.

Another way this might be fixed: The search tool searches for all words in the "Search words" field. Or does it already do this?

This is a good debate...hopefully I'll be proved wrong, or the XOC gets that much better.

IceChickenX

Uh, you can choose "match all" or "match any" in the search form. "Match all" is for very specific searches, "match any" is for less-specific ones. Of course, either is OK if you just use one search term like "overheating" which is a better choice. Now, if you wanted to search for how to do something about overheating, you might try "overheating fix" and select "match all" vs. "match any" because "match any" will also pull up threads about fixing anything else too.

That's not how search engines work (except for Ask Jeeves, which is a pile of shit). Simple search engines don't parse languages well, and work much better when you just give them keywords.

This isn't Google, so don't expect miracles, but use words you want to match instead of phrases.

The search engine (like all search engines) also ignores certain words which are useless, like "a an are as be but for how in is it of the to was with".

It's not my job to explain how simple things like search engines work to the noob.

You said noob... That's funny.

I stand corrected with Brent's previous statement...I was unaware that you can select a "match all" criteria.

Yeah, ask Jeeves is pretty useless...to simple in fact.

Well, with all this debate, I have learned more on how to use the XOC search engine (NOT just search engines in general).

Maybe, I'll put it to good use next time.

IceChickenX

How about listing the forums in some sort of logical sequence in the drop down menu? They're not listed alphabetically, nor are they listed in the same sequence that they are on the Forums page. Makes it hard to pick out the forum you want to search when you're scrolling through.

Ooh ooh...

I know this one, the forums are listed that way because the board puts them in the order that they were created! If I recall Ian said that there was nothing he could do about it.

Did I win? Did I beat Brent? Or did I still lose because I forgot to word my reply in the form of a "You should've searched first" reply?

Seriously, I remember reading about that before, and that was why they were in that order. So all you really have to do is remember which forums showed up when (or ask Brent) and you'll know where to look. (fake British accent) It's quite simple really (end accent).

MV

I don't care why they're listed that way, I'm saying it's the least user-friendly way you could possibly list them and they should be reordered. That's my suggestion.

I'm in the suggestions forum, right?

Good to know why, thanks for that, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.

Yeah, I agree. If it can be changed, it should be. But I think he said just wait until the board gets upgraded...
MV

Search engine is fine... Just post a question and wait for Brent to post the links. Works every time.