Ignition System Upgrade?

I've done a fairly large amount of time working on Volkswagen engines - from stock to all out race (which is currently the state of my race car). I've done a large amount of research on ignition systems to go along with that. However, my experience is limited to normal aspirated engines and without electronic ignition systems. The most often electronic upgrades on these engines comes in the form of replacing the points with a magnetic sensor or installing an electronic ignition computer.

With the Xterra, I'm wondering if the old methods still apply and are beneficial, or if the electronic system just kind of "evens out" your upgrade.

Here's what I was thinking.

Platinum plugs are crap. They have a tiny little electrode and it's main benefit is providing a better spark for weak ignition systems and not fouling as quickly.

I'm thinking about the first tune-up, and replacing the wires with better quality aftermarket ones, replacing the plugs with traditional plugs or maybe multi-electrode ones and looking into the coil and spark plug gap.

By putting in a hotter plug and coil, along with the wires to support it, you can open the plug gap more and get a nice juicy spark. This ensures good, complete combustion and increases power output (read: hp) and efficiency (read: mpg).

Now - will the brain of the X circumvent these modifications? Or will it improve the system overall? Has anyone tried playing with the ignition system?

I'm suspecting that it's not a bolt-on miracle cure by a long shot, but will certainly help boost a typically underwhelming system of most engines out there. Not so much for hp, but at least mpg and knowing you got some good stuff under there.

Huge waste of time and money

Fuel burns just fine in my X, no need to try to improve it.

I perfer NGK copper electrode plugs.

I don't think so, Ian. ;>

Call me back when you see an improvement of more than 10%.

I have my faith in Nissan R&D, and doubt anyone will see any performance gains out of the VG33E without resorting to force fed induction, or expensive flow work.

I'm just talking about beefing up the ignition system here... Which is a typically weak link in most stock engines. Will it give you any "bolt-on hp?" No, probably not at all. Maybe 1-2hp if the stock system is really bad. ;>

I'm sure you're right though - the stock X system does what it does just fine. I'm just saying that it can probably be improved - certainly if you make other modifications. ;>

But as for real modifications like a wider throttle body, POP charger type intake, cat-back exhaust and headers - that's a juicy power gain when it's all said and done. Boning up the ignition at that point is icing on the cake.

It won't make your stock motor into a rocket, but it'll definately make it a little more powerful and efficient. At what cost/performance ratio, well, that remains to be seen. Hopefully Spencer Low Racing will provide more facts and figures for our consumption...

So no one's thought of this? Hmmm.

I'd have thought someone at least approached the waterproofing aspect of it...

I haven't began to modify the X YET -- but I have a lot of experience modifying Nissan Z's.
I think you are on track to make gains in the stock ignition system. Hotter coil, better/larger wires, better plugs (stay w/ NGK), opened wider = better fuel combustion (increase hp and mpg). All factory systems are geared toward the middle of the performance spectrum. Nissan has a long history of improvability. One of the things that keeps me in their stable is that I CAN make it better, faster, stronger. They build a great engine to play with. Go for it. Post what you try (I know you will). If I get to mine soon, I'll post what I do...



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Sean 'ZCaptain' Kester
Rockwall, TX
'01 Alpine Green XE 4X2 3Pack
'82 280ZX Coupe (modified)

Hi I am new here so forgive me if I am repeating something that has already been said. A site called Spencer Low Racing has all kinds of bolt on performance upgrades. One package for the xterra includes a new cam, lifters, headers, cat back exhaust and intake. The combined gain in horsepower is said to make the horsepower 220 and torque 237 ft. lbs (http://www.spencerlowracing.com/technotes/technotes_dynoresults.html)

One thing to watch for in ignition wires, like those from Spencer Low Racing is that they're non-supressive. That is, they're not shielded for noise and will make your radio and communications gear near useless - or certainly noisy.

I'm probably going to change the plugs, coil and wire at some point, but I'm looking at the Spring or early Summer for these mods. I'll be doing research in the meantime, though.

Thanks for the input - that's pretty much what I was thinking.

I don't know if they make one for the xterra but Jacobs Electronics makes a "Digital Controlled" ignition set that they swear will increase power and economy. I had one on an old mustang of mine and it worked well. It consists of a new coil, wire, and control box. www.jacobselectronics.com
is supposed to have the details although I have never visited the site.

Yep, I've had the Jacobs system in a VW and it does certainly help. I don't have that system anymore, but I still have the coil. The wires were replaced with Accel 8.8mm yellow jackets.

I hqve the Jacobs Omni-Pak installed on a 1991 Pathfinder. It does make a difference! Jacobs claims 8-10 hp for the VG30E engine. All I know is I get 1-2 mpg better miliage and an increase in power starting in the 2000 to 4000 RPM range. I also used the orginal cap & rotor button for 114k miles, just cleaning them every 10k or so. I run AC plugs gapped @.055. The 2000 Xterra I have has a different igntion system from the Pathfinder. It has a HEI system similar to the GM units so would not show as much of a gain if replaced. By replacing the stock wires with a quality set you can increase the plug gap by .010 without changing the coil. You can also increase the timing a couple of degrees without the computer trying to compensate.

The comment about platinum plugs being designed for weak ignition systems is not correct. They were designed to last for 50k before replacing and they will. They are also designed to require less power to fire reducing ignition noise and coil heat.



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Coolerman
1991 XE V6 5sp Pathfinder
2000 SE V6 Auto Xterra
1972 Toyota Land Cruiser

Read that one more time. "They are designed to require less power..." Like I said, they're good for weak ignition systems. ;>

Nothing beats quality wires, a hot coil (spark wise) and good plugs with a nice gap.

The coil on the VG33E is integrated into the base of the distributor. Take a look - only 6 wires on top of the cap. Nobody is installing that old Accel Super Coil from the back of their garage into their X without a fight.

Well now, that's a bummer.

Perhaps another, similar fitting part might serve to replace the cap/rotor - or worse comes to worse, a new distributor...

But I doubt I'd go that far. If you're gonna do that much work, you might as well add a cam, headers, throttle body and so on to make it all worthwhile.

Some day maybe, but not today.

I called Jacobs last week and they said that there is no inprovement for the X right now. Burke

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I have been doing some research too. I am going to upgrade plugs to split fires and upgrad wires and then get a POP charger. A friend did this with his JEEP Cherokee and improved his fuel mileage by 2 mpg. I know, I know some of you may think split fires are crap but I have used them in all my vehicles and have noticed a improvement in power and mpg.

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'00 Solar Yellow XE
Automatic
3-pack

why would anyone want to upgrade their ignition? Its useless unless you are going to supercharge it. Stick to bolt-ons, like Intakes and Exhaust.

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I USE MY "X" TO TOW MY RACE CAR AT THE TRACK.

LOL.

Do I really have to answer this? Sure, why not...

If your ignition system is weak, then you're not burning all of the fuel mixture that you could be. That means lost power and lost fuel economy.

Yes, it helps to have other modifications, but you'd be surprised at how much an affect your ignition can have on overall engine operation.

As for "sticking to bolt-ons" well, that's just a silly comment. Do you consider a "Type R" sticker a bolt-on also?

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2001 Solar Yellow SE 4x4 V6 5spd

so you mean to tell me spending money on Wires, Plugs, and ignition boxes is better than buying exhausts and intakes? Oh yeah and Bosch +4 and Split Fires give you 30 hp at the wheels.




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2000 X V-6 2WD
mods: JWT Pop Charger (soon HKS CAT-BACK)

i use my X to tow my race car to the track.

Nah..im talking about Roof Racks and Brush Guards and Calvin pissin' on Ford or Chevy Stickers...thats real "bolt-on" power!



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2000 X V-6 2WD
mods: JWT Pop Charger (soon HKS CAT-BACK)

i use my X to tow my race car to the track.

I never said it was "better." It helps, and it's part of "the complete package" - if I were to modify other parts of the engine as far as intake and exhaust, you betcha I'd upgrade the ignition. Even without those mods, it's an improvement - albeit a small one. Depends on how hardcore you want to go.

Remember - "how fast do you want to go?" is in directo correlation to "how much do you want to spend?"

What kind of car do you race, again? You should know these things if you "race."

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2001 Solar Yellow SE 4x4 V6 5spd

see, thats the old way. I dont own a Mustang or Z-28. Its how fast can you go with the little money you have..all this talk is making me hungry, i think its time to make a run at the Boarder.



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2000 X V-6 2WD
mods: JWT Pop Charger (soon HKS CAT-BACK)

i use my X to tow my race car to the track.

It has nothing to do with how fast you can go, anyone can drive in a straight line.

It's how fast you get into the corner, how late you brake, and how fast you get out of the corner. And for me, that's much more fun on 2 wheels than 4.

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Regards,
Ian

Ahhh, Ian, I must wholeheartedly agree. As an X motorcycle racer, I must say there is no rush like hitting 150, grabbing a handful of brake, laying the bike down on your knee, carving a corner, and then accelerating to the next corner. I can't imagine too many feelings more incredible than that. Certainly flying a jet would be better, but that's about the only one I can think of. But hey, I've never taken a Civic to a dragstrip so I guess I can't say.

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Eric Konarske
'01 Solar Yellow XE 3 Pk. 4x4

I think you should lower the X, it will make it more aerodynamic when 4 wheeling.

And of course type R stickers help too.

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Super Black
00 XE V-6 4x2

are nology wires suppressive or non-suppressive?
they don't mention it on their website
http://www.nology.com/hot.html

[This message has been edited by xtothez (edited 02-16-2001).]

I wouldn't go to a hotter plug. This could possibly screw something up. I'm sure there are resources out there backing this up. Whatever the stock plug gap spec is, run your plugs on the upper spec, as you already know a bigger gap = bigger spark.

IF the stock ignition system is BORDERLINE, you will notice an increase in fuel economy and maybe power if you beef it up with a better coil (Does the XTERRA have a single coil, or does it have distributorless ignition with coils for each wire?) Then you can also run a slightly bigger gap.

The clubs I belong to (Merkur XR4Ti) have found platinum plugs last longer than normal plugs, but their performance level is lower than normal plugs. On our cars normal plugs last 1 year then they start breaking up at high RPM under high boost levels. We opt to run Champion Copper plugs and change them every year. We have also found the MSD-6 systems cause a power LOSS in our cars, but our cars have an extremely strong ignition system that has no trouble producing 650 hp (4 cyl turbo) in one past Ford engineer's Bonneville top speed race car.

How hard is it to change the plugs in the XTERRA? If its easy, I'd stick with normal style plugs (Champion copper, NGK copper) and change them every 1-2 years. They are cheap, and work good.

I'm on this board to learn about XTERRAs, I plan to buy one this summer.

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got this response from Nology.....
don't know why this guy used ALL CAPS and don't know why he would rather talk on the phone than to simply respond to my inquiry regarding cost of a set of "hot wires"


WE HAVE MADE HOT WIRES FOR THE XTERRA, IT WOULD BE

EASIER FOR ME TO EXPLAIN THE BENEFITS OVER THE PHONE.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CALL ME AT 760-591-0888

Probably so he can pitch the schpiel.

Just go here for HotWires details and save your nickel...

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2001 Solar Yellow SE 4x4 V6 5spd