The Arbitration

Today was arbitration with Nissan over the blown rear diff they will not warranty. Here are some hight lights.....Random thoughts....

1. They sent a heavy hitter from Tenessee with substantial credentials.
2. They continued to behave VERY badly.
3. They are spending thousands to fight my diff replacement, while standing on shakey ground.
4. They brought up the "abuse" line again, but seemed to retreat on that issue.
5. The main thrust of there argument remained after market parts. They gave up the brush shields argument, but became well prepared to argue the Calimini lift is responsible for the diff exploding!!! Guys, I am NOT joking. They claim the Caliminin lift is un-authorized and caused an out of spec pinon angle...ok, yeh that is the STUPIDIST thing I ever hear of. The arbitrator was chosen due to vehicle knowledge, and was by this point becoming clearly agitated by the rediculous statements from Nissan. I had to have the thing towed to the arbitration. I pointed out the pinon angle IS correct(even though that would never blow a diff)and the shims. They totaly sand bagged Calimini, I cannot believe it. They HAD Calimini design the freakin lift.
6. Nissan requested a third party vehicle inspection, another delay to wait on...then a ten day wait for arbitration results....
7. The whole event was so rediculous that my attorney basically decided going to court is an excellent choice if they dont honor the arbitration.
8. Nissan continues to seal there fate on future sales.
9. The Nissan rep had NO KNOWLEDGE of the differential design flaws, including the spider gear fiasco!
10. He insisted the Titan diff is different because of a different part number. Well, yeh, it has different mounts and such. But the internals are the same....GOOD GRIEF! They were prepared here also, knowing the Titan disaster would surely come up.
11. Also claimed I fourwheel too much, 6 times in 2 years.
12. Argued I didnt use the 4x4 right???Ok, uh...

Sounds like they're looking for a needle in a haystack.It is strange how others have had no problem getting theirs replaced, but you've had to engage Nissan to have yours replaced. And of course they're gonna fight you tooth and nail: they don't want to set a precedent. At least it seems the arbitrator may be unbiased and knowledgeable
Good Luck.

Keep fighting it. It took nearly a week of me fighting Nissan consumer affairs and the dealership to get mine covered. Tell them you want the proof on paper in your hands about why they will not honor your warranty. Include the exact way the lift caused the failure. Mention the magnusson moss act, and talk to the dealership general manager.

Damn.
Got a front bugflector? Better take it off before they tell you the additional downforce it caused on the front lifted the rear of the truck by which changed the pinion angle just enough to cause the diff to fail.

Good luck, I hope you get your truck repaired.

Just walk a picket on the sidewalk in front of the dealership. Saying something like ' DON'T BUY A POS NISSAN XTERRA----ASK ME WHY

That will get their attention. This should have been honored by the dealership. You bought the truck from a dealer, not Nissan direct. the dealership should have repaired it and took up the fight with Nissan. Not you.

He's well past the dealership general manager. He's now to the big shots at Nissan. I have a feeling that by the time he is done it's going to cost him more than if he just paid for it, but I am glad he has faught it.

Geez. An 18-wheeler fuel truck totalled my car in May. Hadta go back and forth with them for weeks to get them to pay the right amount. It's amazing how much these companies will spend to avoid setting a precedent of any sort.

Good luck. What dealership are you dealing with? I have had nothing but bad luck with the Nissan Dealerships in CO Springs. I've heard there's a great one in Denver, though.

Start looking around for a rear out of a Jeep. I know of 2 Titans up here that are using Jeep rear axles.

Won $12k in arbitration with my wifes injury claim after she got rear ended. The chicks insurance company then appealed and it went to court, where we only won $4800 (Not even enough to cover medical bills). Going to court isn't always best. Glad you are sticking it to them tho, if you win then that case can be used as a reference for anyone else going through the same kinda crap.

You didn't get enough to pay off medical? Wow. How does that happen? I figured you would be guaranteed at least that.

Lloyd, good luck if it goes to court. If Nissan allows it to go that far (aka, they don't agree in mediation to pay you off), they're going to try to make an example out of you, in case there are others out their in the future. Corporations are VERY protective of their designs, and if you're challenging their design (which you are) in a court of law, no offense, but I'd expect you to lose.

We don't know the true specifics of it all, so honestly, we don't know what really happened to the differential. It *could* be a shitty design, or it *could* be a defect, or it *could* just have been your unlucky day. No way web-warriers can make that call!!

But one thing is for certain. If Nissan is actually spending more money than the differential is worth to replace, then they're doing it for other reasons than to just piss you off. I hope you have enough $$ to play in this hornets nest, 'cause if they want to justify their design in a court of law, they will bleed you dry. Any company would, 'cause they can't afford for the next hundred dozen people standing in line behind you to get replacements unless it is absolute certain the diff exploded due to a design flaw. Good luck!

Well, see, if it's a design flaw, Nissan would go back to Dana. Nissan did not design or build the diff, Dana did. So, if it comes down to a design flaw that they have to spend lots of money to fix, then they will turn around and go after Dana.

Jury decided that the $5800 of care for Whiplash was to much after the insurance company brought in their $400 an hour (He testified to that) Professional Chiropractor Witness who testified accordingly. So we got screwed. Luckily we had $5k in cover from our own insurer Geico.

Yeaa - we got fucked! lol

This much I do know about the law: If this case goes to trial and Nissan prevails with their arguments and wins the ruling...It will establish a precedent whereby all subsequent claims for damages to diffs on lifted trucks could be summarily (summary judgment) denied without additional recourse.
Within days Nissans legal dept's will memo dealerships with new instructions on how to deal with subsequent cases.
This is way bigger than Lloyds diff.....They will fight tooth and nail.

All that I can say is "Wow". This is why I use an older beater for off roading. It does suck though. They built an Off Road X with a diff, and they try to tell us to keep driving safely on the street. That off roading is not allowed. What a crack of Sh*t. For anyone reading this, try to make buddy/buddy with the service manager. If you're make good enough friend, he will jump hoops for you. If not, just make friends. Best of luck in this case though. I personally think that Nissan will not hold up in court, and everyone will know that. All parts were designed for Nissan with their input and authorization. Make sure that the lift was installed by authorized rep. Or, at least have paper work to prove that. But sh*t happens.

Well, by the VM I just got from the dealer, my rear diff must be in. They ran across a problem installing it with the the rear AAL (they don't know what the shims are for).

What shocks the hell out of me is that these poorly designed diffs got past two different engineering groups. Both Nissan and Dana engineers. My guess is someone said something about it and they didn't do anything about it and probably never will until they release a whole new model.

It amazes me that when a company puts a badge on a vehicle, suddenly people think it is capable of high-demand situations.

I bought a 2003 Spec V as a work beater---purchased new. Now, because it had red letter "R's" all over the vehicle that supposedly signified "race", did not mean that this thing was built as a serious race car. That did not justify 4G drops at the strip or multiple speed shifts around a road coarse; it's an econobox.

I can't begin to tell you how many people blew engines, tore up transmissions, chewed up diffs only to go onto a forum and complain that Nissan, as a manufacturer was junk. Now there are guys going over 150,000 miles with no oil consumption when many said that would/could never happen--- oh yeah, they do use the car for the occasional road coarse with some of them and some even have been boosted and hold up with no ill aftermath.

Now adays, if a company slaps a badge on something doesn't mean sht to me. It's a plastic badge meant for marketing. If you hammer anything through mud, high water, corn fields or whatever, stuff will eventually break. I can guaruntee that Nissan's first goal wasn't to beat the Rubi, but to offer lockers because their competitor has, not because they want to see a plethora of X's becoming mean rock crawlers. Use and abuse is a very, very fine line in an automotive manufacturers mind; especially when it comes to replacing parts under warranty.

I've seen a local position for the Dealer Technical Specialist for Nissan and I can garuntee you that the first place I would search is the forums so beware. Angry people b*tch about poor service as they should, but when they post their cool wheeling stories online there is the black and white evidence. Don't forget that anything on the net can be used against you because it is in writing.

As far as the differential, as soon as you lifted the vehicle, in Nissan's eyes, you have manipulated their original intention.

Different shaft angles usually burden joints more than the diffs themselves. What blew out on your truck? Was it the side gears or the spiders?

I remember when the lS1 Z28's were hot and heavy. They were notorious for chewing up diff's because GM under specified the rear axle assembly not taking into consideration the amount of abuse the Z could dish out.

Not to be the asshole here but read your warranty that you agreed to when you bought the truck. It specifically states that any part not authorized by the OEM is grounds for warranty voiding in part or whole.

IMO I wouldnt warranty your diff consider there is a lift on the truck for the mere fact that you did alter the driveline angles...granted maybe not much...but still altered from what the engineers intended.

You bought the truck...lifted the truck...wheeled the truck...and the truck broke. Stop bitching fix the machine or dont wheel it and drive a stock one.

Tim

Maybe you idiots ashould read up a little! Only a few wheeling trips, and people are blowing these things with hardly any use. Yes, the diffs are junk and I am done forever with Nissan. They DESIGNED THE FREAKIN LIFT WITH CALIMINi AND RUN THEM ON THERE OWN TEST TRUCKS! AND NO, a freakin driveline angle will not cause spider gears to break apart.

Nissan rigged the TE as well, and sent someone in to claim the lift now causes not enough fluid in the diff to lube the gears! We WILL sue them in court.

Lloyd, you took your brand new X to Moab...remember your old sig? Bragging about running the X in Moab during the "break in period" maybe the break in period is over cautious these days, but it's still in the owner's manual.
Now, before you go off on a tangent about how Moab trails aren't that difficult, I agree with you. But, being that slickrock gives you so much traction any wheelspin followed by sudden traction can and will weaken your driveline components, leading to break down further down the road.
I bet you didn't mention that to Nissan during the arbitration did you?
Good luck in court, hope you have deeeeeeep pockets

Lloyd,

I know your pain man I really do...but from an OEM stand point you did this to your vehicle by adding non-Nissan approved aftermarket parts. All of the OEM's contribute to the aftermarket...it's a good business deal for both of them but the fact is that a mechanical inspection of the vehicle will 100% prove if the breakage was an internal fault (warranty) or owner abuse. If there is a gray area then the warranty work will be approved. Even if your rear diff did just "go out" by driving up with a lift and other mods you become a big red flag to the dealer.

Dont waste the time or money in court because you will lose. The magnusson moss warranty act only protects you if the breakage had nothing to do with your aftermarket part....ie a new intake kit and the T-case grinds to a metal ball.

Nissan can and will easily show that you did knowingly violate their warranty by lifting the truck and modding it out and you will not win...sorry to say it but it's true.

Thats why I personally waited till my warranty was up before I did any major work to my truck.

For what it's worth good luck....

Tim

It's like the time a young individual was arguing that all of the ground straps on his arc plugs just happened to melt off all by themselves.

I told him that I could lean the thing out until it ate a head gasket at the end of the 1/4 and it still would not melt the ground strap off the plugs. I said first, this won't be covered and next time use a bigger fuel jet in your kit and tune it right on the dyno. If I only could have taken a picture of his face.

OEM trucks are built for comfort, not for manly rock crawling.

I know that your pissed because you felt that it should have taken the abuse. As soon as I looked under the front end and saw and alum dif, I knew this was for light duty only. It gives us snow birds warm fuzzies to have 4x4.

Then don't create an Off-Road model with a locker. Don't have commercials with it bouncing around on the rocks. Don't sponsor an off-road team.

...if you don't want it off road.

Just because it has an aluminum diff housing doesn't make it automatically junk. But when you fill that aluminum housing with junk gears, you have a problem.

I feel your pain about exaggerated advertisment.

The problem is though 9 out of 10 times you have to read the fine print that you can't read at the bottom of the screen because it is so small; everyone covers their butt.

Also, just because an axle center section is comprised of aluminum does not automatically wave a red flag as junk---you are correct--- but with my limited 15 years in the automotive industry, advanced level master certification and various other wall hung pieces of paper, I can pretty much guaruntee that an OEM one won't handle much abuse. Remember that abuse is labeled as anything other than it was designed for. Now because it has off road badges, does it really deem it worthy to hang with crawl buggies, or does off road mean a dirt path in Nissan's eyes?

My frustration lies with excessiveness. I say the same thing about Corvette, GT500 and so forth, why build it to do 190 when the fastest limit during the day time is 80 on a narrow stretch of Texas. Now the funny thing is I don't see many corvettes speeding, unless you go onto Youtube. What I do see is a plethora of minivans runing 90 mph with kids in the back. Why build a minivan to limit it's speed at over 100 mph? Why would anyone need to go over 100 in a minivan? I suppose it's a good thing the kids are in a car seat so when the van goes upside down it can be sure to chop the chillin's heads off. SUV's used to be built for the manly men with big forearms who's sole purpose was to use the vehicle through some extreme conditions. You look at Willy's, Jeep, Original 66-77 Ford Bronco.

All tough as nails, but none could easily hit the ton, if they could much get past 60mph, but they would climb like a mountain goat and would not break. Comfort comes at a sacrifice.

If I was a hardcore enthusiast, and wanted to keep my X for some rock crawling, I would call Currie up and set a real axle in place. May cost you 2500-3, but it won't break.

Even those three mountain goats I listed above became legends because of modifications. The Bobtail, you could order a big bearing 9" rear w/ limited slip and compliment the Dana 44 up front with Posi.

You have to remember that most SUV's never see off road, even with cool badges. With that in mind, would you design a harsher-stronger ride and lose your altimate goal---sales--- or a comfy plush ride that can so-called hang with the best on the dirt?

I was wheeling last year with some friends from a Nissan club.

There was this ledge on the trail that was climbed by 1st gen Xs, 15-year old pahtys and hardbodies, etc., all with all kind of lifts, oversized tires, wheels etc. Everything was running smoothly until it was the turn of a 2nd gen frontier. Driver takes the ledge, does nothing wild and BANG! There goes the front diff.

You can argue that the 2nd gen has a lot more torque than the older trucks, but then it wasn't designed for the torque of our trucks.

So it's very stupid from Nissan to put a lot more torque on a truck and put a POS of a diff on it and then blame owners for doing the same people do with older Nissans.

I can see both sides of the argument. I bought my X as a grocery getter, wintertime travel truck, and for something to drive on dirt roads and sand from time to time.

People are fragging the front (open) diff on stock tires. The previous gen had a larger r&p plus the cast iron. If nissan would have retained that, we probably wouldn't be talking much about it. I bet they saved $17 per unit with the aluminum one. I'm also sure engineering told them what would happen.

If Nissan came out with a bigger front drive, I'd trade-in or buy the parts. it's a nice truck, but not for the trail, IMO. I had something else smaller for that anyhow.

This is true, but why then did Nissan take the time (i.e. spend the money) to put in 40:1 crawl ratio, solid rear axle, clutch cancel, hill decent control, a clean undercarriage?

The Pathfinder has IFS because it's a camping/mall vehicle. If that's all Nissan intended the Xterra to be, they could have just used IFS on it as well and saved on having two different rear ends. In fact, if that were the case, they would have just dropped the Xterra altogether and only marketed the Pathfinder.

So Nissan wanted an Off Road Xterra. Not a Jeep Rubicon, no, but a solid OHV. But for whatever reason, they put lousy diffs in it. Maybe it was bad enginering, or maybe the bean counters didn't want to pay for heavier duty stuff.

My personal guess is it was the bean counters. Nissan released a lot of new vehicles from 2004-2005, which meant a lot of engineering costs. Nissan's not a real strong company financially, which undoubtedly limited how much they could spend. So somewhere along the way it was decided to go the cheaper route.

I'm sure they know now that it was a mistake, and I bet the next redesign of the Xterra sees better front diffs, but it's late enough in the current product cycle that nothing's going to happen.

Of course, Lloyd had his rear diff go out, and I gotta think that's bad engineering on Dana's part. A D44 should be strong enough for our Xterras, at least with 32s or 33s.

But no, I'm not buying it that Lloyd abused his Xterra.

Sorry y'all. I'm going to throw in my $0.02 worth, which in real dollars, that's really only about 1/1000 of a cent.

At any rate... The Dana 44 (in its stock form) is a strong enough diff to be used on the rear up to about 31" tires, possibly 32" if you're staying on the street. Anything more than that, and you better do some differential upgrades and/or replace it with something stronger. I'm not talking front differential; just rear.

Lloyd, as much as you may hate Nissan, you did wheel your truck, and it did break. Offroading is not a cheap sport. And it doesn't come without risk of breakage.

You will lose your arbitration. You went online and wrote, on numerous occasions, your offroad "testing" of the new generation Xterra. And because of that, you will lose. Nissan does not have to go very far to show you took the X above and beyond its intended purpose. Warranties only cover defects, not user "abuse". And the term "abuse" is interpreted by the manufacturer, NOT you.

Everyone here knows the aftermarket parts did not cause the breakage. But they don't have to be the cause; they only have to contribute. You see, the manufacturer doesn't have to prove an aftermarket part caused the damage; they only have to prove the aftermarket part COULD cause the damage. I don't think there's anyone that could prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that they did not contribute. Which means you lose your battle with the aftermarket question as well.

If you want to wheel your truck, then you have to pay to play. Start with a stronger vehicle base if you want to get serious in offroading. Or spend the money to make yours capable. Offroading a stock rig is asking for parts to break, plain and simple. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". And that goes for a stock Xterra, stock Rubicon, stock FJ, etc. NONE of them in their stock form are made for any "offroading" beyond a moderately rutted dirt road.

BS, I am running D44's in my Rubicon on 35" tires, beat the hell out of it and I have not had the diff blow. Sure, an axle shaft, but never a diff. If I was blowing half shafts in the front or axle shafts in the rear, i would not be complining. The fact that the diffs are going first is complete BS.

Ok. So you've blown D44 axle shafts running 35" tires.. And you disproved my point, umm, how?? Last time I checked, axle shafts are STILL a part of the axle... If you're running 35" tires on a D44 rear and stock internals, you deserve whatever breakage you get.

I'm not defending Nissan for putting a D44 into the Xterra. Frankly, I thought that was a grossly undersized differential all-around for this purpose. A D44 was GREAT in the Cherokee of yesteryear; but a cherokee is not even close to the same size as a new Xterra.

What part of the axle broke really doesn't matter; the Xterra is a street vehicle, just like every other vehicle that's sold by major manufacturers these days. If you're dumb enough to believe the advertising, well.....

I had a Rubicon with 33" for 4 years, and my friends with 35' tires, and we did wheel hard, and never had any diff issue with the D44
[/QUOTE]BS, I am running D44's in my Rubicon on 35" tires, beat the hell out of it and I have not had the diff blow. Sure, an axle shaft, but never a diff. If I was blowing half shafts in the front or axle shafts in the rear, i would not be complining. The fact that the diffs are going first is complete BS.[/QB][/QUOTE]

No, it does matter what part. Axle shafts are easy to come by and for a couple hundred bucks you can get custom alloy shafts, which on a D44 would be plenty strong to handle the weight and power of the X (that is if the diff held up).

On my Rubi I trashed the ouside of a front axle shaft. The outters on the front Rubi axle is actualy froma D30, so the part of the axle shaft that I broke wasn't even a D44.

Bottom line, diffs should not be exploding...preiod.

X2

This is always good to read

http://www.dana.com/

"Dana and certain of our U.S. subsidiaries are operating under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code as debtors-in-possession. Information about the bankruptcy proceedings can be found at: http://www.dana.com/reorganization.

WARNING: While we continue our reorganization under Chapter 11, investments in our securities will be highly speculative. Although shares of our common stock continue to trade on the Over the Counter Bulletin Board (OTCBB) under the symbol "DCNAQ," the trading prices of the shares may have little or no relationship to the actual recovery, if any, by the holders under any eventual court-approved reorganization plan. The opportunity for any recovery by holders of our common stock under such reorganization plan is uncertain and shares of our common stock may be cancelled without any compensation pursuant to such plan. "

I would do further research to see if Dana skipped on proper heat treating or proper preload on the carrier or gears.

OK. So maybe/maybe not the X diff is under-engineered. Maybe/maybe Nissan practices slightly misleading advertising. Maybe/maybe not Lloyd looses his case. Maybe we now all feel less confident going off road. Perhaps we have polarized the forum into a heated debate as to who is right/wrong.

The real question is what do we do moving forward? Do we have after market available now so if we need to do a repair we can install new bombproof hardware, or will we need to again use the Nissan stock components?

The cards have already been delt. What's the new plan man?

http://dana.mediaroom.com/index.php/press_releases/1511

Dana Corporation Earns Nissan Quality Awards

Dana Corporation Supplying Propshafts, Axles for Nissan Vehicles

http://dana.mediaroom.com/index.php/press_releases/52

Dana’s propshafts are featured on both the two- and four-wheel-drive versions of the Pathfinder, Frontier, and Xterra vehicles. Dana and its subsidiary operations are also supplying rear axle assemblies with standard differentials for the Frontier and Xterra two- and four-wheel-drive vehicles. Design enhancements have improved the durability of the axle, while increasing its torque limits.

“We’re delighted to supply Nissan with durable, high-quality driveline technologies,” said Michael J. Burns, Dana chairman and CEO. “These products help satisfy the high level of performance Nissan truck owners have come to expect.”

For those of you having problems, I would take an educated approach to solving the axle issues. I would not be surprised if they could not talk opening about the rear axle unit, but it may be worth a shot. Good luck.

Technical Resource Park Test Track
Dana Technical Resource Park
8000 Yankee Road
Ottawa Lake, MI 49267
419.887.3441
419.887.3941 (Fax)

World Headquarters
Dana Corporation
P.O. Box 1000
Toledo, Ohio 43697
Phone: 419-535-4500

Hey, I would be all for aftermarket helping us out. I would spend the money. But I'll be damned if I am spending $3000 to replace the front diff with the same POS that it came from the factory with. Same with the rear. If I have to pay, either don't rape me on the stock crap, or give me something better for a higher price.

I'll pay $2500-3000 for a new front diff (including house) with gears of my choice, locker, and new half shafts.

I am just comparing it to what a SOLID or Currie axle costs.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/projectbuild/129_0506_2004_nissan_titan_custom_dana_60_axles/index.html

They ate up two rear diffs. Supposedly the grapevine is that Dana outsourced the spider gears, which are powdered metal and were not properly heat treated; again grapevine material---take it for what its worth.

It does suck to break parts but especially if the part was defective (which has not been proven) but the fact remains that when you make a decision to wheel a truck and break something...well too bad.

I havent had any issues with my 02 but I drive the truck smartly and know what it can and cant do that is the key.

If you dont want to break your truck dont take it in the dirt...and if you do break it dont go rolling up with all sorts of hot off the shelf SEMA crap and expect them to help you.

Tim

You guys really don't get it do you? I understand that you have to pay to play and I am willing, trust me. But my rear diff blew while doing 15mph down a residential street.

Diffs should not be exploding like they are. Hell, even guys with D35's in Jeeps have better luck than we are having, and we are supposed to have D44 rear diff. And no matter what is posted above, a D44 should be plenty strong for our vehicles.

As I stated, I wouldn't care if I was blowing shafts, I can carry spares and swap on the trail if I have to. I can't easily do a diff swap on the trail, and even if I could, my pockets are not deep enough to afford a $1500 spare carrier/locker and R&P gears.

Trust me, some of us do get it. I agree 100% with what you and others are saying here - there is obviously an issue here and it should be addressed.

At least to me, it appears that Nissan is trying to take the easy way out instead of the right way out. Even if this turns out to be completely unfounded, from the way this particular complaint has been handled (again purely based on one point of view at this time) I do not have a huge amount of faith in Nissan right now.

What's worse for Nissan is that this thread (as little as it may seem) is actually starting to pop up in Google searches for Xterra differential issues. While Nissan may win this case, they sure do seem pretty reckless with their image - these aren't the 80's afterall - the internet can ruin people - and companies reputations are not exempt (whether it turns out they were right or wrong).

Just do a search on Nissan.com and why Nissan does not own the domain name - and what it's done as a company about this. Again - take it with a grain of salt as it too is written not by Nissan - but by the owner of the Nissan.com domain.

The proof is in the metal chunks I got out of my Rear Diff when I changed the fluid. I even gave them to the dealer and when I picked up my truck they were in it. They had the opportunity to keep them and case closed, but the Dealer I go to knows full well that the failure I had has nothing to do with the application of my vehicle.

I've seen first hand two separate '05 Rear diffs that blew, one being raced and well the other, mine. Same issue with the spider gears.

I had my diff replaced at 24K Miles and as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed and Nissan can feel free to replace it under warranty 2-3 more times before my warranty period expires. If there is enough love of my X by then I may go the route of changing out the drivetrain to keep it or just trade it in on the Next Next Gen in 2010.

If you didn't see this the first time I posted it. Pictures of broken Spider Gear teeth.

You can very clearly see that there was insufficient hardening and the tooth was just pushed off after the 1/32nd " hardened outside was fractured.

My service advisor (Brad @ Peoria Nissan) told me they test drove the X before tearing it down and they blew the diff the rest of the way and limped it back to the shop.

Perfect timing and all thanks to Shrock and an Oil leak when I tried to put the protection on. I could have been stuck on a trail somewhere.



A shear test on an unused component is all that is needed to prove this point, however there is most likely no possible way to determine exactly which vehicle has the defective parts until they come in for this issue, then they replace the diff with a '06 or newer that has 4 spider gears instead of two. A birdie told me that this elimates this issue. We'll see!

Best of luck to anyone who has this issue.

The Front Diff is a whole other story that I haven't had any issues as of yet, but I'm sure that chapter will be rearing it's ugly head soon. Until then, I'll not comment other than to say I know of two people who have had issues and they were repaired under warranty w/aftermarket parts on one of them, '05 and the other was a stock '07.

The point you don't get is that what usually breaks on a pre 05 Nissan truck is:

1-Bent tie rod end: Easy fix on the spot. No pore than $30 in parts. Aftermarket solutions for $500.00, no more breaking.

2-Blown CV axle: Easy to replace. If you don't carry the part, go to AutoZone and get one for $200.

3-Blown auto hubs. Easy to replace. Aftermarket manual hubs available for less than $200. You can even get a fuse for the aftermarket hub for $20.

On 05+ Nissan trucks:

1-Blown diffs: Not easy to replace unless you carry a whole axle spare, who of course nobody does. Cost to fix: over $2,000. No aftermarket fix available. No disconnecting hubs, so if you don't want to tow your truck back home, you would need to disconnect both CV axles (not to fix it, just to drive home).

So do you think that the diffs being the fuse on 05+ truck is not a design flaw and the solution is just don't wheel your truck and don't believe in advertising?

Yep, pretty much. It was pretty obvious that the '05+ Xterras and Frontiers were built for soccer mom comfort, and not for offroading.

Not to mention, Nissan has been using the Dana 44 in the TITAN since it came out, and the only problems it had were ring gears exploding because the case wasn't large enough for enough oil for proper cooling. They realized, and fixed that problem VERY quickly after coming out with it.

So how, from an Engineer's point of view, if a Dana 44 is "strong enough" for a v8 w/ well over 300 hp and 370 ft-lbs of torque, isn't strong enough for the new Xterra/Frontier with significantly less power? From a design standpoint, it is PERFECTLY fine to use that axle on this type of vehicle, for its intended purpose.

IF there is any FLAW, it rests somewhere in the actual production of the axle, and not its design. Therefore, it is NOT a design flaw.

Now I'm not going to say there isn't a casting defect w/ those spider gears if they're blowing up. Then again, out of the total vehicles sold, we're ONLY talking a very, very small minority of vehicles with the issue, most of which have been replaced under warranty.

My best guess is Lloyd approached this in a much more demanding way, and when he didn't get his way right off the bat, he went ballistic in one fashion or another. Once it escalated, Nissan most likely did a 5 minute search, and realized he had offroaded his rig, and now out of spite, they aren't going to do shiite for him. And by now, their lawyers have let then know that they WILL win the case, because Lloyd has screwed up at almost every step along the way to get this covered under warranty. So for this particular instance, I think Nissan is making an example out of him.

Moral of the story: if you think you have a warranty claim, don't go bragging about offroad adventures, pull into a dealer with aftermarket suspension in the area of the damage, and sure as hell don't go running your mouth detailing the whole saga until the saga is OVER... Those 3 things alone will pretty much lose a warranty claim all by themselves; add them together and you can pretty much guarantee there isn't a courtroom in the US that'll listen to your side of the story....

You are wrong about one thing, the Titan's are still blowing up rear ends. When I was talking to the service manager when I got mine replaced I had asked if he had seen any X's or Frontiers with blown diffs and his response was, "No, we we see a lot of Titans". Poke around on the Titan boards, you will see a lot of failed rear diffs. They do seem to be all M226's with lockers.

I would poke around, if I believed internet messageboards were a decent sample of the average user. However, I don't. Nobody gets on a messageboard to say they don't have any problems... Internet message boards are a place for people to bitch about products, not praise them. So reading messageboards to see if there are ample amounts of failures is pretty much a waste of anyone's time.

Umm, ok, then what the hell are you doing here? That makes no sense.

No matter what it's a good gauge if it's a reoccuring problem or not. If you search for "blown rear titan diff" and you find nothing, well, then it would be safe that it's not a common problem, but if you do the same searcha nd come up with even a dozon people with the same problem, well, then you know it's a reoccuring problem.

So you're an engineer and for you it's better to have the diff as your weakest point rather than an axle shaft, CV axle or hub which are easier and cheaper to fix?

Tell me who you work for, so I don't buy products from them...

yes, I am an engineer. What I'm saying is, and you evidently missed it so I'll say it again, is it's NOT an engineering problem. It's a casting problem. The design engineer didn't physically make spider gears that are weak...

Don't confuse engineering with manufacturing. It's two different processes, and a screwup at either can have the same effect. However, since ALL of the spider gears aren't exploding, and the D44 variant has been used in Titans for quite some time, I'd say that is MUST be a batch of poor quality spider gears that made it into the diffs.

That's NOT an engineering problem; that's a manufacturing problem. Blame the jackass quality control person at the factory that let a bad batch of metal go through; don't blame the engineers that are designing things several hundred miles away...

You won't find me on here bitching about something I broke offroading, and try to pawn it off as a Nissan problem, either...

My truck has some faults; they all do. But I've taken care of most of 'em, and will fix the others as they come along. I sure as hell won't do something that causes breakage, then get pissy because Nissan won't pay for it. Last time I checked, my warranty doesn't cover stupid. Does yours?

It might not cover supid, but it should cover something that is broke, and broke, not because of any other reason then either poor engineering or crappy manufacturing.

I think it might be a combination of both. Xterra Racer said that the side gear on the M226 w/ locker is very thin. It had to be shaved down to fit the locker in. He said that is what he has seen fail.

If that is the case, then that is an engineering flaw.

As for the Titan, as I said, people are still blowing up diffs and the dealer is still replacing them. So have they fixed a problem? Doesn't look like it. Looks more like they are just willing to replace the diffs with the same crappy item.

yes, I am an engineer. What I'm saying is, and you evidently missed it so I'll say it again, is it's NOT an engineering problem. It's a casting problem. The design engineer didn't physically make spider gears that are weak...

Don't confuse engineering with manufacturing. It's two different processes, and a screwup at either can have the same effect. However, since ALL of the spider gears aren't exploding, and the D44 variant has been used in Titans for quite some time, I'd say that is MUST be a batch of poor quality spider gears that made it into the diffs.

That's NOT an engineering problem; that's a manufacturing problem. Blame the jackass quality control person at the factory that let a bad batch of metal go through; don't blame the engineers that are designing things several hundred miles away...[/b]

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Well, I think you're not aware of all the problems with 05+ diffs:

-Front diffs are blowing w/o doing anything wild. Engineering or manufacturing? Who cares, even cover under warranty won't make it up for the hard time you had.

-Some rear diffs came with 2 instead of 4 spider gears. Engineering?

-D44s with e-lockers are blowing because Nissan machined down one of the sides gears to make room for the locker. Engineering?

Anyhow, engineering or manufacturing, Nissan should stand up for their products and issue bulletins or recalls to fix the problem and not blame it on "driver abuse".