ABLS is useless... (video)

I just traded my 2000 X in on an 06 Xterra S (both 4x4). My 2k would go just about anywhere. I loved it!

I took the 06 up to Steamboat for the holiday. While exploring the town, I decided to turn around on a narrow road. I didn't realize how deep the snow was on the side and got stuck.

I put it in 4x4 and tried to get out. No good. I put it in 4x4lo and tried to get out. No good. The tires on the road just spun while the tires in the snow did little to nothing. The ABLS kicked in a couple of times - made that same annoying sound as when the ABS kicks in during a slide - kinda sorta made the truck rock a tad - and then stopped kicking in altogether.

Personally, I think this ABLS stuff is totally useless.

Here's me stuck:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1479718385301948847

Note - the ABLS did not kick in during this video - you would have heard it. It's loud (is it supposed to be???).

I ended up getting pulled out by a Chevy.

I wish I had the lockers... still, I expected more. I honestly think my 2000 would have been able to get out just fine.

If this is the direction the xterra is going, I've just bought my last one.

It seems that people have problems with the ABLS and snow. I don't know why. I have not had the chance to experiance it's capability in snow yet as for the past two winters we have had none!

One of the things about the abls is that it likes it when you take it easy on the gas. If you are spinning wild, then the brakes can not grab the free tire. Some people also think that it's the VDC causing the problems as when it detects too much spin it will cut power.

I'll keep that in mind in the future. I played with everything, including the VDC, in a parking lot here. The VDC actually works pretty darn well. It really prevents you from sliding. I can post a video of the difference later if anyone is interested.

However, I still feel pretty strongly that the ABSL is crap compared to real LSD. One of the things I noticed when playing around was that the ABSL didn't want to dis-engage until the vehicle came to a complete stop - even after both tires were full spinning.

A couple of observations:
1. You have stock tires, they suck in the snow.
2. It looks like your passenger side is really stuck deep.

I best most 4x4's with no lockers off the lot would have been stuck. Most 4x4's are only 2x4's. I don't even know if the locker would have helped that much.

Its a bummer, but don't let that one instance jade you forever!

Those are BFG ATs.

Yeap, it was about knee deep. However, if I had some significant torque on that side of the vehicle I think I could have climbed out. I had actually used the snowboard to shovel out a lot of the snow on the passenger side. I had good contact with solid packed snow/ground on the passenger side and wasn't leaning against the snow bank very hard at all. I was deep, yes, but I had good traction on that side.

Most 4x4s are only 2x4s? What do you mean??? 0_o

-edit to avoid double post-

Here's the depth of the hole I was in:


And here's a video where I was starting to dig out while the girl was pick'n on me =D

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1774011591749814165

The snow is between at the middle of the back rim and top of the front rim and just starting up the bumper in the front... Still looks to me like I should have been able to back out the way I went in.

"run it off a cliff" is another story entirely...

BTW - I do feel pretty dumb for getting stuck to begin with. I should know better than to go driving off into snow when I know nothing about what's under it. I just assumed it was like everywhere else I'd been that day... but apparently it was a deep drainage ditch along the road. :-/

I just doesn't look like you have enough weight on the drivers side to get traction... it's just one of those situations where you are screwed.

Most 4 wheel drive vehicles only drive 2 wheels in 4 wheel drive. Otherwise going around turns your tires would skip and chatter. In my 05 X when I have the rear locked and go around turns one of the tires skips. If your rear is locked both tires spin at the same speed, which makes it hard to go around a turn.

It looks like the edge of the road where your drivers side tires were is ice. I think the only thing that would have helped is a locker.

Hard to say without being there in person.

Good observations. We were saying - afterwards - that we might coulda gotten out if one of us stood on the back left corner and kinda bounced.

I have good experience with ABLS since the Disco I had for 5 years uses essentially the same system. It was very difficult for it to get stuck in snow/ice, but I'm sure it would have been stuck as well in that situation. Heck, even with a locker you may not have gotten out and just dug further since the weight was shifted too much on the passenger side. Lockers tend to "walk" sideways and can get you stuck in a bad way if you aren't careful.

Another question, were you high centered? Also LSD will get messed up at weird angles and perform just as poorly. I have found the ABLS unbelievable off-road, nearly performing as well as lockers in some situations.

Actually I just watched the video, and the ABLS was performing as best as it could under those conditions. You can clearly see it transfering power back and forth as any LSD would. And when you turned the tires applying some upward force to the street tires, both hook up. Unfortunately they are hooking up on solid ice. I can tell you that if you had the locker, a flick of the switch and you would have EASILY driven out of that situation. Remember, not only does the locker have far superior traction, but the ABLS re-programs the front to a more agressive profile with the locker on. Lesson learned? Buy the off-road model.

Actually, I think it's "if you plan on driving into a snow filled ditch, buy the off-road model".

I have to agree with most everyone else... the ABLS wasn't your problem.

I have been severely impressed with the ABLS so far. I remember a couple months ago when some friends and I were at an OHV park and I was trying to crawl up a really muddy, uphill, rutted trail (and it was raining). At one point about 1/3 of the way up the hill the X came to a complete stop in a rut. I just kept a little bit of steady pressure on the gas and a few seconds later I could hear the ABLS kicking in. A few more seconds later the X just lurched out of the hole. My passenger (who doesn't do any off-roading) was pretty impressed. I've had a lot of moments like that. I'm glad that Nissan gave it to us for free and didn't make us pay for a push button "A-TRAC" like Toyota did to the FJ buyers.

Oh only if you had a locker... i was in the same situation and i was testing the 4wd. Was stuck in regular 4wd. Locked the rear dif (OR model) and i got right out. What a difference the locker makes so cool.

I wasn't high center. I had packed snow under me, but I wasn't on anything solid..

When the ABLS kicks in, it seems to make a sound. If that's not the case for other people, then I have serious issues as the system makes a VERY loud sound at times. I never heard that sound during the part of the video othat was filmed so I'm assuming the system never kicked in.

And I totally don't understand what you're saying by "appllying some upward force to the street tires".. ??? Why would the system apply force to the STREET tires when those are the ones spinning freely???

The road wasn't all that icey, really. Definitely NOT solid ice. There was some packed snow on the edge making it kinda slippery, but not solid ice by a very long margin.

Yeah, I wish I'd gotten the offroad model.

When my ABLS kicks in it is the same sound as when the ABS kicks in.
Not sure exactly how it works, but since the B in ABLS stands for braking I guess the ABS and ABLS use the same control thingie, but of course different sensors.
My ABLS works very well. I havent been in a situation like yours but I purposely put the 2 right tires on pure ice, and the left tires on pavement.
The pavement tires got the traction.
Same thing with snow covered icy roads.
I also have a pure winter tire on my X.

If that is indeed the case, then mine never kicked in for the full duration of the posted video.

Well I am sure this is what ABLS sounds like because my "slip" light also comes on with the sound.
Was the slip light coming on when you were stuck?

I'm surprised after 2 pages of replies that no one's mentioned feathering the brake to redistribute power to your the opposite tires of each axle...

Yeah, i'm looking at that first video and i'm sorry but that doesn't look like glare ice. both your front and back tire had traction at one point or another.. and it looks to me that it could have been driven out of there with someone bouncing on your back bumper.

I know ice.. if that was ice and you had a tire spinning on it, there would have been zero movement.. and a spinning tire will make pseudo-ice even worse.

You gave up too easily.. you could have coaxed her out of there with 4Hi and some conjoling =)

I just got done playing around in some serious snow for the last few days (over 24 inches in 48 hours!) and I'm very happy with the way the new X performed. Around town, the electronics kept the truck very safe- straight and controllable. I was able to deal with some pretty intense conditions. I had to turn the VDC off where the snow was very deep (as it wanted to slow me down too much)- but really the only complaint I have is crappy stock tires!

You could of been locked front and rear and the odd are you were not going to get out of that without some serious digging or a tug.

We just did some snow traveling of our own, I'm very happy with my truck's performance, but my own, well, mediocor.

I can see why he's stuck and 4 low with the locker probably would have helped, that or a half dozen friends.

First Gen (SoldierX) Stuck

I actually backed back down, got stuck, went back up, backed down again and then strapped her up the ice. At first I didn't think it was going to be able to do it, but I just kept feathering the throttle while the VDC/ABLS was going nuts. Too bad I don't have it in Video though.

Second Gen Locker helping DBAX on ice?

If there was ice under that snow it got MUCH worse with spinning tires like that.

Carry some kitty litter in the winter.. works great for traction on ice.

I need to get me one of those little shovels.. i've been down on all fours digging the snow out with my hands. It's a site to behold =)

Here's a guy from SoCal giving snow advice (I grew up on Chicago's south side).

It looks like if you would have been able to dig yourself about 18"-24" worth of clear space for your tires to get some momentum you would have gotten out.

Without computer controls over the spinning tires there was little traction and several trucks behind. We got her up though and digging out the ice for 6" or so made a big difference in getting some momentum.

As for kitty litter, I didn't think there would be so much snow and I've only been in it a few times and never as deep. I think I'll get some chains for that kind of travel.

Dude,
I own an 05 and it is positively the WORST snow going vehicle Ive ever had. I wont waste the time to tell you every vehicle Ive own or owned but Im members of MANY Toyota boards and a few Ford Boards and even a Jeep and Suzuki board.

Anyhow, what ever driver assist features Nissan put in its computer, they missed the mark totally when it comes to snow. I constantly get stuck on excursions with my Xterra to a point where it has been assigned grocery getter duty on the pavement most of the time.

Honerable Mention: 2 weeks ago we used our Xterra to recover my Ford Crewcab diesel which had broken a front axle thus effectively leaving me with 2 wheel drive in deep snow. I was leading a group of 4wheelers with my Ford in the snow and my wife was driving behind me. I was using my Ford to make a path in the 3ft snow for the others to follow. After the breakage, I flattened all 4 tires on the Xterra to gain enough traction for the recovery. It worked and we tugged the Ford down below the snow line and then returned to the snow for some more playing.

ABLS is no substitute for a locker. ABLS and stock tires in snow did fine at Big Bear New Years Eve. Drive within the limits of your tires.

Hmm maybe you should have opted for the OR model. My OR blows me away with what it can do.

Not had mine in snow, but in loose sand, the ABLS works great. Even steep dunes are no match. The slip light flashes, and you can hear the brakes chattering to transfer power, and the vehicle never loses momentum. I have the VDC turned OFF when off-roading.

Those that don't think their ABLS is working, have you looked at the tires on BOTH sides to see if they are spinning also?

Looked to me in the video that the tires on the passenger side were in deep snow with no hope of traction. The ABLS transferred power to the driver's side, but the road was icey. If the road had been dry, it "might" have dragged itself out. Being that stuck, and with the belly of the SUV in packed snow, SOL at that point. Don't think lockers would have bought you much at that point either.

1) VDC and ABLS are separate systems. AFAIK, you can't turn ABLS on or off.

2) The ABLS never made a sound during the filming of that video and only kicked in once while attempting to get out.

Note: I have since been told that ABLS tends to kick in if you're easy on the accelerator. In the video I was attempting to get the truck rocking so I might have been tapping the gas a bit hard and quick.

Yeah, ABLS really works best with light and steady gas.

First of all both tires on one axle spinning while on a slippery hill makes for a diaster. I don't mean by hitting the slope straight on but by trying to travel parallel to it.

After watching the vid, even lockers would not have walked out of that mess with the current driver.

One, if you dont have traction, spinning the tires faster does absolutely nothing.

Two, if the majority of your vehicular weight is on the opposite side of traction, you suffer a major disadvantage.

4 low is more than a trail gear, it is a tool to be used in limited trac environments...even with fancy computer technology.

This example seperates the men from the boys.

If I were to simply open my laptop and pound on the keys, get no response and label it as worthless piece of plastic; it would only be mislabeled.

This is why you also see many vehicles upside down in a ditch during a snow storm; the drivers reply with well the stability and traction control didn't do their job; I'm suing. I tell them, well unfortunately at 80 mph in a snow storm that's asking a bit much from your vehicle.

Many people look at an automobile as means to get from point A to B and nothing more. I like to think of it as a fine instrument that can make beautiful music and accomplish great things in the hands of a craftsman.

We learned that rocking the Xterra when it is stuck does not allow the trac-con to work properly.

This is VERY true, but if the VDC detects slipping, it'll chop the throttle, and the ABLS won't have a chance to work! This is why I turn the VDC off when off-roading.

FWIW, when my ABLS has kicked it, it ISN'T a loud grumble like the ABS. Unless you're paying attention, you probably wouldn't hear much other than the engine/exhaust... and swearing!

Yeah, a locker would have done the trick.

btw, yeah I like that Nissan lets us turn off our VDC, unlike Toyota, which owners have to patch in a wire.

That is what I thought too. The ABLS is working, otherwise the tires in the snow would have been the only ones spinning.

I made the same mistake when I was in high school with a 1/2 ton chevy 4x4 pickup, and it couldn't get out either.

mitt

After having some major snow fall in the Vancouver area this winter, I have to give three thumbs up to this truck.

It is an excellent vehicle in the snow, of course the driver has something to do with it's success or failure. After reading previous posts on this board about how it sucks in snow and got stuck on the side of a road (not this thread which in my opinion was stuck in a ditch not the side of the road!) I was afraid of the snow a bit. Totally without foundation.

Here is the situation: Stock truck, stock tires.
I purposely put two tires on sheer ice and two tires on pavement and on snow alternately. From a standstill I could move forward without any problems. Regular drive gear used in my auto.
Uphill on icy road. Again, no problem.
It takes the curves on snow like it is on rails.

Of course I have previously driven in deep snow having lived in the prairies (If single snowfalls of 2 feet are deep enough for you), and even with my civic I would rarely get so stuck that I could not get out.

The key to driving in snow
- never spin the tires. It is not like driving in mud.
- You also want to avoid leaning your truck to one side where much of the weight is on two tires (it is not a motorcycle)
- If your going to drive across a ditch - make sure it is not too deep first, and go in with the front - not side first.
- Don't drive on ice - drive on fresh snow if possible.
- If you get stuck, rock back and forth - while keeping a foot on the brake to prevent slipping. Your tires will dig a channel as they spin you do not want that to be directly under your tires, but you want it to give a bit of runway so you can get some momentum.

After having viewed this video, I cannot say for sure that a locker could have got you out, but I would bet a change of driver could have also got you out as easily as a locker. You made several mistakes that I could see. You turned your steering wheel between trying to move forward and backward - why? keep on the same path. You spun the wheels very fast - I doubt abls could kick in. You had nothing on the side of the tires with the weight but snow underneath - of course it will dig in - and if the truck did not dig in it was far more intelligent than you think!

hmmm...well I did a test up a semi tough hill climb and the locker was leaps and bounds more effective.

the abls did manage to get up the hill...haven't tried ice, but my manual trans does spin the wheels freely when the vdc is off...at anyrate you could pull the fuse out of the abs and all the traction control will be disabled.

snow is a bitch with street tires. you have to yank the e-brake handle and tap the brakes to transfer torque when you just can't quite make it. cutting brakes would be awesome.

I posted before on this subject and just now watched the video. I assume you know what momentum is? Momentum is the tendency of a moving object to stay in motion. Well everytime you got some momentum going, I heard you let off the gas....wrong answer.

Dont get me wrong, Im no fan of the VDC or the ABLS or the accelerator by wire... but a little more agressive driving and you could have gotten out of that.

Should have bought the offroad with the locker.

This past week we had an ice storm here in the mid atlantic states. I have a 2006 S 4x4 and had absolutely no problem in the snow and 3/4 of an inch of ice that covered the roadways. I even took it up a completely ice covered side street that was about an 8% grade. The abls and lsd kicked in and it worked like a champ navigating up the hill (3/4 of a mile). This is with a totally stock vehicle including the stock BFG long trails.

If the truc is hung up on the frame then your pretty much screwed and will have to be pulled out. Try using the parking brake, slowly, as a ghetto locker to help out....its worked in my Jeep before, not really practical on my 02 X as it is a foot brake, not sure what the setup is on the second gen but if it is a hand brake try it.

Tim

The VDC sure does it's job. We had about a foot of snow last week and I went looking for unplowed lots to play around in. At one point, I was in a drift ~2' deep (pavement underneath offered all the traction I needed), but the VDC kept me from spinning out quite well. I couldn't figure out what was 'wrong'...every time I'd get the rear end out trying to spin it, the VDC would kick in and keep me in line. I finally turned it off so I could play a bit, but I was surprised how well it worked!

Lots of snow here in Winnipeg.
The X is more than capable in snow. Drifts up to 2', no problem.
My X does not have VDC.
I ride on winter tires which provide the ultimate in traction.
It really comes down to your tires.

If your tires suck, so does your ride.

I won't comment to much on some of the other responses as a few seem to inform you a bit more off road driving experience may have come in handy.
I have owned more than 20 vehicles in my 35 year life and have to say my 06'X OR is by far one of the most capable vehicles in the snow (or anywhere) I have ever driven.
Here in the Mid-West we have had it all lately, lots of ice, snow, sleet...
I have been pushing this vehicle every chance I get and been very aggressive with where and when I drive. It has not let me down yet. Night before last I was heading down I-44 right after a light dusting witch caused the freeway to ice up. I counted 21 cars in or off the ditch, 9 really bad wrecks requiring medical, and even 2 coroners.
Semi's were keeping the speeds below 35. I still didn't have problems blazing by everyone at 50.
I have pulled so many cars and trucks out this winter I cant begin to count. I have to say I've only used the Lockers twice, once in 2' of mud, and once pulling a Honda out of a ravine in the snow/ice. (Actually I ripped it out...lol)
Go play in the X, take it out in bad weather every chance you get. You will get to know what you BOTH are capable of.