4x2 to 4x4 Conversion?

I'm wanting to convert my 4x2 '03 SC/SE Xterra to a 4x4. After getting the 4x2 (and at the time didn't have the extra 3 grand for the 4x4) I didn't think I would ever use it... Now I'm regreting it. Trading it in would cost me thousands... So...

I have determend this as possible... it what parts and how I haven't figured out yet.

The plan so far... Getting a 3" suspension package for a 4x4
That should have all the major front end components.

Next would be an ARB Locker for the front

Now from here i start getting lost. I know i'll need a transer case and some form of a front axle...

I'm wanting to use Nissan (or NISMO) parts anywhere aftermarket isn't already avalible. The other major concern is telling my cars computer it has 4x4 as an option... I have a very rare Xterra so outside of the 4x4 parts from a normal V6 from a junkyard (if i can even find them... also what other years would be compatible with an '03?) the CPU would be the hardest to get.

I'm up for doing most if not all the work i can... if anyone can help me figure out what parts i'm needing and the basic howtos for the part changes. I'm guessing the cost around $3,000 due to installing the front locker right out (will do the rear locker when money allows or if it will make this upgrade easier, the rear would also include ring & pinion changes for larger tires).

Now as fro searching the board (just to cover my bases)... only results i got were to trade it in. and the $10,000 loss or so is keeping me from doing that... So help or direction would be appriciated.

How much money do you have?

You need a transmission, transfer case, front diff., driveline, wheel hub assemblies (the whole thing!), wheel driveshafts, different frame crossmembers, mounts, brackets, Shift linkages, interior parts, and a bunch of other stuff. You're in it for at least $5K to make the switch using junkyard parts and doing the work entirely yourself and that doesn't include the extra stuff you want like a locker. Then your warranty is toast and you are at high risk of having problems associated with the change that will cost you even more money.

I find it hard to believe you would take a $10K loss on your current truck. If that's the case then it has the same value as my 2000 with 100K miles on it!

Sell it and get what you want.
:rolleyes:

Well trade in value from www.kbb.com puts me at about $19,000 and I owe $29,500 so yeah... about $10,000. High mileage... about 17,000 miles already.

For what i have been about to find for other cars with similar setups (IFS fronts) its only about $1,500 in parts (all factory). So i would figure that the Suspension package would ba a trade off on some factory parts... and the Locker would also trade off on a front diff. putting me around an eastimated $2,500-3,000. Now what i don't know for sure (might goto a dealer and crawl under a 4x4) is what type of transfer case i would need. If it is not part of the trasmission then it would be a bolt up job.

It's not like these cars never had 4x4 options... the biggest part change would be the transfercase depending on what type i would need (for got what the two types were... married and something else).

Closest post on another board i could find on the same subject.

CHANGE 4X2 PATHY TO A 4X4 LE

Incase anyone else is searching as well.

the suspension is identical. so it would jsut be added cost to add the lift.

In fact nearly everything is identical so It is almost a straight bolt on job.

It is possible, it would not cost 5k in parts... It's between 1-2k depending on where you get the parts... If you can do the labor yourself then the only cost is time/parts/tools.

so somewhere around 2k and you will lose your truck for a few days.

Also don't forget you will need to get a Frame Trust(SLR sells them) as the 2wd Xterra did not have one.

I'm not much of a mechanic... so I don't really understand what all is involved - but whenever this question comes up, the response is always overwhelmingly "Sell it and get a 4X4".

I think if I were you, I'd buy a nice older 4x4 Wrangler and a tandem axle trailer so you can drag it out to the offroad park with your X.

It is true, though, that the used car market SUCKS right now. Ask Austinbartndr... he owed something like 17K on his '00 or '01 4X4 X, and they offered him $8500.

Xorand thats for the post... Thats alot of insite. But is the transmission change a must... or was that a preference.

And if the lift is just a bonus to the deal then i can skip that for now and do it latter. Would rather get it converted to a 4x4 and start making sure everything works first before adding in parts that aren't nessisary.

The link i posted earlier to 4x4parts.com forum about some or the cars having a capped off transfercase... I'll crawl under mine tonight and see if that is true here (doubt it though... too easy). If so... this would be extrealy easy... the rest of the work would/should be direct bolt-ons.

-MMX

the fronty guy mentioned having to move frame pieces becaus eof the different drive shafts used in the 4x4, aside from that I don't see why it wouldn't be bolt on.

Don't get me wrong, I want to stress THIS IS NOT AN EASY JOB.

But it is possible.

You can't afford to finance the extra cost of a factory 4x4 to the tune of an extra $40/month for 5 years, but you can afford to cough up a few thousand dollars in parts and labor in the span of a few months or less, AND you can afford footing the repair costs on any issues that would otherwise be covered by the warranty you're prepared to severely compromise?

Transfer case is "married" meaning it and the transmission are essentially one piece, vs. a "divorced" (capped off as you put it) unit which is an independent unit from the transmission. In other words (in the case of the Xterra), if you want a transfer case, you need the transmission that goes with it.

You're out of your mind,
Brent

Now we are getting somewhere...

I'm always up for some hard work... And where did you find that diagram?

brent, your not paying attention.

when he bought it he couldn't afford the 4x4.
now he can afford the swap. but he is upside down in the X because of the shitty resale value.

so its smart to take a 2k hit and do some work than to take a 10k hit and have his monthly payments also go up for a new 4x4

I considered this mod as well... but decided instead to buy an old beater 4x4...

just saw wher eyou are form MadmanX... let me know if you need help... I'm reletively mechanicly inclined, just lack tools. But This would be a hell of a project to be proud of when its finished.

What would the electornics intell?

And would this be somthing i could get from a wrecked X of a different year and a non SC... or is there too many differences?

no. you would want a wrecked X years shouldn't matter.

Your lookin for an Xterra that ha sbeen though a roll over...

Idealy you could get all your front components out of an X thatgot rear ended buy a large truck (seems to be a lot of them in the valley)

The tought part is gonna be finding the X's(or frontiers) that have been recently wrecked and not yet stripped.

Not sure on electronics... what could there be? "4x4" and "4x4 low" indicator lights? Electroken would have the answer to the electronics question.

so your lookin for a 99-2004 Frontier or 2000-2004 Xterra, automatic 4x4.

Might have to take you up on the offer Todrick. But i'm the same.. lack tools... so i buy them as needed.

Yeah the 4x4 was out when i bout my X... the extra couple grand couldn't be done do to being upside down on the truck i traded in...

So... on to seeing what a conversion would take. Now as for waranty... Just so everyone knows. What ever you report as a problem must be directly (and provable) cause of your modifications. So yeah if i snap the axle thats my problem... if my engine goes wierd.. they have to deal with it or prove my changes caused it.

as for the transmissions... can the married transmission be avoided?

-MMX

seems a divorced trans/transfer would require some fabrication... if your going that route your better off just going solid front axle... since your getting into the fabrication realm anyway.

Its just time consuming, you have to spend whatever available time you have on the phone/visiting junk yards... looking for parts

the other thing to try is tow/impound yards... not sur ehow it works in AZ but in CA they would impound CHP and Police wrecks at tow yards untilt hey went up for auction... you might e able to pick up an entire truck if the wreck was severe enough and get the parts that way.... then selling off whatever is left

Was more just courious on the divorced tcase... if the year and model (edoesn't matter... then shouldn't be to hard to find an X that has been rearended...

nah, thats what im saying the X/Frontier have remained the same mechnaicly since their introduction... so a divorced Tcase would be something of an oddity for an X... and require some fab work to fit I assume.

While I normally agree with you on a lot of things I don't see any way in hell a conversion could be done for your price. A 4X4 manual transmission alone from the junkyard runs about $900; I know because I had to buy one. I can only guess a transfer case would be at least $500. The front suspension is similar but not identical. The the hub assemblies and such are completely different, which means the brakes probably are too. Plus he'll need a new clutch and maybe even a flywheel? The list just keeps going.

Basically, parts would have to be stolen to get to your price. Maybe with a lot of shopping around and getting absolute rock bottom prices he could get it down under $4K, but still would likely encounter problems and would be without a warranty.

This SO reminds me of the people who buy 2WD Audis to save $1,700 and then want to spend $6K or more to add quattro later.

It just makes no sense.

Anything is possible. Manned space flight from your backyard is possible. Possible doesn't mean anything. This isn't worth your money or time.

If you think there are only 10 or so parts that are different then you need to be prepared to need 30 or 40 different parts and about 100x's more work than you thought. It sounds like a good way towards a 4000 lb. piece of lawn art.

If you had a totalled 4x4 Xterra you could swap stuff over on then that would be the only way I would even think of attempting that.

I think you should just get some lockers for the 4x2 and see if you need more.

two words that could get this guy in a whole lot of trouble.

With the $$$ that you've spent on the SC/SE...you should have gotten a XE V6 4x4 with all 3 packages...you would have ended up paying either the same amount or even less...BTW, the 4x4 package is only $2,000 extra not $3,000....

All I have to say is that in the 3 (going on 4) years the X has been around, there haven't been any documented cases of someone doing this conversion. There's a reason for this. It takes too much time, expense and simply isn't the smartest thing to do on such a new, otherwise perfectly running truck. It's hard enough to do a solid axle swap on an X that already is 4x.

If you pull it off successfully, I applaud you - but so far your conversations and expectations seem pretty unrealistic. Maybe you'll prove us wrong, but I'm highly doubting it.

I live in an area with some of the best auto salvage yards/resources in the country and I've had trouble finding any Xs for even the smallest spare parts. And that's a minor beginning to your saga.

Best of luck.

This thread has become somewhat.... amazing?....AND...The MadMan is worried about depreciation and low re-sale at this point, I cannot imagine what it will be after this killer mod...! Go Get 'Em!

Here’s to the crazy ones.

The misfits.

The rebels.

The troublemakers.

The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things differently.

They’re not fond of rules.

And they have no respect for the status quo.

You can praise them,
disagree with them,
quote them,
disbelieve them,
glorify or vilify them.

About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them.

Because they change things.

They invent.
They imagine.
They heal.
They explore.
They create.
They inspire.
They push the human race forward.



Maybe they have to be crazy.

How else can you stare at an empty canvas and see a work of art?

Or sit in silence and hear a song that’s never been written?

Or gaze at a red planet and see a laboratory on wheels?

While some see them as the crazy ones,
we see genius.

Because the people who are crazy enough to think
they can change the world, are the ones who do.

Yeh Mr Todrick....That's what I do for a living. Invent shit and sell it.

This is not a creative idea at all and no genius is required to have the idea of spending many hrs and $s to get to what one should have bought in the first place. I know a guy that he AND his wife buy a new ride on average evey 6 months because they can't figure out what they need / want. They have the same problem with boats. Absolute idiots but they think they are so smart @45 and 52 yrs old. No genuis involved with them either.

Go Get 'Em...!

Here’s to the crazy ones.

Well... This started out a civilized conversation of if this is possible and how and ended up the same as most thrieds i have seen. Buy a new truck.

If your here to insult or critize me not having a 4x4 then don't waste mine or your time. This conversion is totally possible. its how it's done that everyone seems to be afraid to find out. Xorand posted a link of someone in the process right now converting a Frontier (a nearly identical truck).

And just to humor all you that want to complain about me having the SC/SE... I got the 4x2 then because it was exacly what i was needing... and in time i decided i want to go more extream (well after getting stuck in a couple places i shouldn't had). Money has never been an issue... Its how to do it that is.

-MMX

I have faith in that you guys can do it and have some fun along the way....So...

Go Get 'Em!

Nice Apple rip off, Jason. You forget some of us work in advertising. Matter of fact, a good friend of mine helped write that positioning with Lee Clow at Chiat/Day (Apple's agency).

Like I said, I applaud this guy if he pulls it off, but we all know that it's not the smartest or most groundbreaking mod to do to an X.

In fact, I think it's an insult to compare what groundbreaking things others have done to REALLY change the world, when all this guy did was make a regrettable mistake.

There you go. Xorand has found the 4x2 very competent. Why not try to do some off-road mods to your 4x2 first to see how far that can go? It's all cheap and simple.
disconnects, lockers, tires, maybe you want to lift it...etc 4x2 is a good ride, fix it up a little. If the 4x2 was good enough to buy how could it be so desperately wrong for you now?

I don't know why Todrick is more excited about a conversion than you are but he's not going to be there 24/7 trying to make it work. You are. Do you know how easy it is to armchair quarterback? It is also putting yourself way behind being someone that doesn't already have tools or wrench alot. And then to take advice from someone that also doesn't have tools or wrench their own vehicle. Doesn't sound like a sound start.

And you aren't doing anything worth your money-or more importantly, your time. People put alot of time into their 4x4's but at the end of the day they have something completely different than stock to improve capabilities, be unique and tackle some big obstacles.

What you are proposing is something anyone can simply buy in an hour. And it will be better because it will still be under warranty and manufactured to Nissan standards.

So at the end of the day what will you have compared to what you have lost in time and money?

NOT worth your valuable time or money.

Hey MadmanX...check out the "Buy and Sell" forum, OffroadX has a wrecked Xterra and is auctioning parts from it...it's a 4x4....

um, ok.

[SARCASM] Yeah I figured no one would know where that came from. [/SARCASM]

-------edited for those who missed the obvious------

I'm not "more exited" than madmanX is... im simply excited that someone is considering doing it.

It will happen, sooner or later someone will do it. It is quite common on older Jeep cherokees, the xterra is simply a newer vehicle, as time passes it will be debate dmore and more, finaly someone will do it.

Thats it.

If it is gonna be done do I want someone local to do it so I can help/watch? so I can see it done with my own two eyes? hell yes.

As for working on my own vehicles... I do. Or did till i moved and left my tools in CA.

Constructive critizisum is just as much help as turning a wrench. You don't have to have all the right tools to do something either. It just makes it easier.

Now if were were spending out time figuring out how to do this we might find mods that weren't normally considered. Such as a solid axle conversion. Maybe even a divorced tcase. Figuring out how to accompish it is only the first step before ever turning a wrench. I may never do it... But i would like to know how.

The simple understanding on how it works is where new ideas come from.

And yet again.. thanks still goes out to Xorand for constructive critisisum. I plan to go your route even if i don't do this conversion. A rear locker has been on the wishlist since first going off roading. And tires are just about due.

I also have to thank Todrick for backing me... He won't learn (as someone put it) if no one will discuss it or try it... I am very mechanically inclined... but even i will gladly ask for help...

I Like my X very much... at the moment to my knowledge is the fastes on the street (and if anyone wants to challenge me... hope your in AZ cause i only race on tracks)... I've already done enough work to it to not want to drop it for a different truck.

So all that are interested in a technical discussion... can we get back on topic and figure out how this can be done (for all those that want to say buy a new truck... money not being an option)... how do we do it? ... what needs to be changed?

-MMX

You want to encourage independent, off center thinking and you quote a corporate tagline? Oh brother.

lol... its not where it came from its what it says.

Everyone is being constructive when it comes to your desire to consider a conversion.
99% think it's a waste of time. This isn't a put down, but telling you its a waste of time and money is just as constructive as telling you how it might be accomplished.

I didn't know you were just web-wheeling.

When you go and tackle some of the real stuff (not meant as an insult, btw), you will find that wrenching and learning how to wrench go hand in hand. You gotta walk the walk and talk the talk at the same time (that's got to be a quote from some Apple ad). Web wheeling gives you no real understanding.

Go max out your truck off road and this conversation will be a drop in the b.s. bucket.

Ok.. I guess i need to define what i mean by critisisum...

How bout what part goes where... and maybe even a why. Not the typical got buy a different truck answer.

It's mine (or anyones elses) choice that wants to do this to consider as a waste of time. What is a waste to some is a great learning experience to others.

I would like to attempt this at some point... but untill i can find something (or some one) that can lead me in the right direction this post will just die with the same old response in it.

-MMX

Very few people in this thread said "go buy anther truck". What I have read is people saying it is the cheapest alternative to a 4x4.

The whole beginning of this thread is technical info on why it will/won't work. My very first post to you was go get some lockers for your 4x2 and go wheel.

I also notice your strong supporter opted to buy a second 4x4 to modify. If this is such a great idea why didn't he modify his 4x2 a long time ago? Actually it doesn't matter because the bottom line is it wasn't done and, imo, not a good idea.

Why?

Becasue when it came down to it i needed two vehicles... my harley doesnt work very well to get the kids to/from places

so it was buy a honda and let my wife drive that or buy a beater 4x4 and beat the piss out of it.

the second option sounded like more fun to me.

Edited? Actually, I think you got called on something and responded appropriately. Then when you realized it made you look less than authoritarian, you backpedal and throw a sarcastic twist on it. That Apple positioning is not common like you're making it out to be. It was put in a book for select Apple employees, on some t-shirts and a few other less than widely distributed materials...not national ads. How do I know this besides my advertising background you may ask? My sister also works for APPLE.

If you got the time, the money, and the patience...then by all means, make it happen. I would love to see the first 4x2 swapped over to a 4x4. Don't let these jealous clowns spoil your dinner.

Jealous of...?

Wow, thats a really big assumption to make... and honestly I find it very insulting.

I truly didn't know that it wasn't common knowledge. If i wanted to plagiarize I would have taken out the "We see genius".

I figured that everyone had seen these ads
It was the main ad that ran during the "think different" campaign. Had Richard Dreyfuss doing voice over while they showed clips of Einstein, Edison, etc. it even has Its own page on Apple.com. In fact it is the only TV ad I remember seeing for the Think Different Campaign... the rest of the TD ads where billboards and magazine adds.

------edited to ad-------

here i dug a bit:
"This ad kicked off the "Think Different" campaign. It shows short clips of several influential figures in this century. Such include Albert Einstein, Mohandas Gandhi, Alfred Hitchcock, Pablo Picasso, and several others. Richard Dreyfuss, the narrator, says how these were "the crazy ones", how they were the only ones crazy enough to think they can change the world, and did. The main theme though is that Mac users "think differently" as Steve Jobs said in his keynote speech at Macworld Expo Boston '97."

more investigation shows that this commercial was in fact the basis of the entire campaign. It Premiered on Sept 27th 1997 during ABC's world television premiere of "Toy Story", last I checked ABC was in fact "national". In reality it was not a national Campaign, it was a global campaign that even required apple the remove the Dalai Lama from the ads in Hong Kong. It was also in part a celebration as it was the first ad campaign following Steve Jobs return to Apple.
heres the .mov of the commercial

I really did just assume others had seen this.

Calling someone a plagerist is very insulting. I simply take pride in my knowledge of current events and pop-culture.

You go and check your sources, and while your at it Google:

"here's to the crazy ones" Television Commercial

and whenever you are ready to apologize I'm all ears.

oh man, how far do you have to dig before you look up and realize you're in a hole?

Suck it up and just take it like a man.

Jason,

I'm well aware of the spot that you linked to, and if you want to get down to brass tacks, it's a :60 sec spot that I was aware of running only a few times simply because :60sec spots are a pretty uncommon media buy. Not as many saw the entire Think Different as you think.

It indeed kicked off the campaign that was then, yes, taken globally with all the great figures you mentioned and a simple "Think Different". However, this campaign was nearly entirely print oriented and slated only with the Think Different tagline. The longer Think Different positioning statement as you have quoted was not largely seen in its entirety. Was I wrong in saying it never hit a national audience? Yes, I'm a big boy. I admit to that. My bad especially given my ties to not only Apple, but their ad agency and the art directors/writers behind it. Honestly, as brilliant a piece of writing as it was, it was largely relegated to sales materials, smaller things, and one limited edition Think Different book that I'm privileged to have a copy of as it was never sold publicly.

As far as my insinuation of plagarism, that's not what I was going for. You merely took it as such because someone actually called you on something for once. You're always on this board getting into discussions where it seems like your main aim is to show how much you know and how little everyone does - be it politics, religion, xterras, whatever. Look at your sig for god's sake:

I hope it feels so good to be right. There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?

Jason, we've hung out together and got along great. I don't think you're a bad guy. I just have a habit once in awhile of breaking people's balls a bit when I perceive their horse to be getting a little too high for them. Just so you know, man, there's a few other of us educated folks out there.

No hard feelings.

This thread has gone from 4x2/4x4 to, let's say, apples and oranges.
If it continues off the posted trail, it will be locked.

dave and xtoy - resident kill-joy moderator

Oh leave 'em alone Dave....Go study more thermal dynamics. These guys are way beyond tire pressures.

Hey I started this whole mess and I kinda agree with Dave... We are so far off topic it isn't even funny.

So aperently no one here thats is willing to post has any technical knowledge of the differences from the 4x2 to the 4x4... I'm better off getting the tech manuls and digging through those myself.

-MMX

I'm over it, I know what I meant.

MadmanX, call me if you need help.

Parts to change/replace/modify/upgrade/whatever (in no particular order):

Transmission
T-case
Trans x-member
Rear Driveshaft (I ended up going custom)
Exhaust support bracket on passenger side
Front driveshaft
Front axle centersection
Knuckles, including hubs and rotors
Front brake calipers
Shifter console (including inspection cover, rubber isolators, and boots)

While your under there go ahead and get:

Calmini crawler gears
Calmini steering
AC lift
SLR Drop kit
SS brake lines
Revolvers
Manual Hubs
R200 LSD from a 300ZX for the front
AOR Springs
Rancho Shocks (soon to be Bilsteins or OME)

Then at least when you are done you have more than a factory 4x4. (oh, but it would look like my truck then).

Anything is possible. You want a personal anecdote. No? I didn't think so but you are going to get it anyway:

I was a college kid saving up like crazy to buy a new truck, but when the time came during Junior year my old truck was dying and was still thousands short of buying a 4x4. So instead, I bought the 2wd. Last year I graduated from college, got a real job, and decided that it would be fun to play a big easter-egg hunt and scour the country (literally) for parts to build up my truck. Why? Because I wanted to, get over it. I'll buy a Titan next year to tow this thing around so I can go all over the place and have fun with it. Isn't that the point though? Do whatever you want just as long as you are having fun along the way?

In retrospect, I do not recommend this type of work to anyone. You WILL get nickel and dimed for this and that along the way. I bought nearly everything used (including the Calmini parts) so I made out pretty good, just a tad over my target for the project. Then you have to sell your old stuff or plop it up on the mantle to be a constant reminder of why you ever decided to do that in the first place!