Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not?

Posted by: Sean

Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 03:07 PM

I think this would be a good topic for debate, but first, here is a link to the latest on this subject:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-08-25-guns-cockpit_x.htm

Personally, I feel that "undercover" law enforcement personal should be the only ones allowed to carry firearms on a public jet liner. Just because a pilot knows how to "fire" a weapon, doesn't mean he or she should be able to use one on board a plane full of passengers. There are many other considerations one has to take in account (pertaining to the subdual of a "terrorist") that only a professionally trained expert in this area would know. My question is why does the weapon of choice for the pilots be a gun? Why not a Tazor or another instrument like it be implemented instead? Think about it, a firearm spraying bullets in a presserized cabin definitly doesn't sound like the best choice.
Posted by: NthLJ

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 04:08 PM

There are bullets that deal with the pressurized cabin issue.

Personally I would like to see a guy with a flame thrower up front. If the passengers don't stand up and take care of the problem, fry a couple of rows [Freak] smile
Posted by: MichaelShaw

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 05:47 PM

and aren't the vast majority of airline pilots ex-military? if so they are already quite familiar with a sidearm and how to use it. I dont see a problem with aircrews being armed... if a "problem passenger" can get through the supposedly much reinforced cockpit door you know he isnt messing around, and I dont think the pilots should have to mess around in dealing with them.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 05:51 PM

There is no guarantee that a Taser gun will completely stop a terrorist or any suspect for that matter. Plus I think the cartridges available will only go about 20 feet. A taser gun didn't stop Rodney King. These weapons will stop the overwhelming majority of people but not everyone. A well placed bullet will stop anyone.

Let's face facts Sean. You are against anyone possesing a handgun.
Posted by: jaws_o_life

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 07:01 PM

Pilots are pilots, cops are cops. There is a reason for this. I would like to hear what career pilots or police officers on this board have to say about the prospect of a dual role.
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 07:04 PM

Like was said before, I would think that a majority of airline pilots are ex-military. So one would think they would be familiar with weapons, especially small arms. I have always thought, if anyone should have guns, its the pilots.
Posted by: rrdstarr

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 07:27 PM

Hey, just do what they do on Star Trek. Anestisine(sp) gas! Terrorists, flight attentandants and passengers wake up at their destination wondering what the hell happened?
Posted by: ChuckH

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 07:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Like was said before, I would think that a majority of airline pilots are ex-military. So one would think they would be familiar with weapons, especially small arms. I have always thought, if anyone should have guns, its the pilots.
I agree 100% and support pilots having guns.
Posted by: Guido

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 08:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MichaelShaw:
and aren't the vast majority of airline pilots ex-military?
This may have been true in the past, but I don't think it is as true anymore.

I am not against them having guns, but only after extensive training (such as what the police have to pass). Like Sean said, there are other things to worry about than just taking out the bad guy (putting a hole in the fuselage, a stray bullet hitting a passenger, or the terrorist taking the gun away from the pilot),
Posted by: 20-100

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 09:13 PM

If I rember well (I have only visited one once) the cockpit of an airliner is small and full on instruments, levers, switches, etc...

I'm not sure even a properly trained person can move enough to do something usefull with a gun... while piloting a plane...

I prefer undercover armed air marshall(s) or some of the flight attendant properly trained and armed.
Posted by: Ruger1022

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 09:46 PM

I support the idea of pilots with guns, I support the idea of flight attendents with guns(both properly trained of course), I support the idea of civil law enforcement carring guns when they fly(as I understand it now, even cops can't fly with a gun), basicly, I like the idea of people other than the terrorists being armed. I agree that Bubba, or even myself, should probably not be allowed to stash a gun in my carry-on. The fact remains that when you're dealing with someone who has decided to die for their cause, there is not much you can do to 'deter' them, however, letting them die for no particular reason(ie; before their "cause" can be realized) is still a very powerful tool on your side. You can't reason with them, you can't negotiate, they've decide to throw life away, what can you offer? All you can do is hold a gun to them and say "you'll still die, you'll just die a failure"
MV
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 26/08/03 11:15 PM

You know something.....

If we actually did some common sense things prior to letting anyone board an aircraft there would be less of a need for pilots to be armed.

First off.... We need to profile all passengers boarding every flight. This crap of frisking 80 year old ladies is total bullshit.

Second... Have you seen the people who do the screening at the airports? Most of them can't speak too much English in the first place and on top of that the majority are so stupid they couldn't even work in a fast food place without fucking up every order. Making them federal employees was a real idiot decision. The feds kept lowering the standards to bring all the same idiots on board. Plus they will soon be given the same federal union status which basically makes these people impossible to fire or remove from their jobs. Just like the untold thousands of do nothing dead wood federal employees. The TSA is a total sham.

Third.... The airlines load up passenger planes with all types of commercial cargo. A lot of this stuff is not thoroughly checked. All terrorists have to do is blow up four or five planes in the same day and all flights will be grounded for a period of time. Afterwards no one will fly for a while and the airlines would be crying bankruptcy and looking for billions in federal handouts...AGAIN. This will hurt our economy and the terrorists will score a win.

Fourth.... Most of the employees that clean the planes, load food and the aforementioned cargo are not long time residents of the U.S. A lot are not even citizens. I don't give two fucking shits what any of the PC crowd says... but it is almost impossible to do a thorough background check on anyone that has not resided in this country for a good portion of his life. What good is a background check if you only know the last couple of years of an employees life and have to take the rest at his/her word. That is even if these companies that contract with the airlines and airports even bother to take the time or spend the money to even do a background check. I doubt it.

Fifth... Has every plane that lands in the U.S. (Domestic, Foreign and Charter) been upgraded with reinforced bullet proof cockpit doors? I seriously doubt that. If every plane had them, there would be less of a need for guns in the cockpit. No one would be able to gain access. There are other ways to bring a plane down without gaining access to the cockpit, but it would not be a controlled crash. The bastards that think they will be screwing 72 virgins upon their death want to crash into specific targets.

Sixth... Any foreign visitor to the U.S. must obtain a valid entry visa in his country of origin prior getting on a plane bound for the U.S. This business of letting everyone into the country on a 30 or 60 day stamped visa at the airport is total bullshit in today's world. The federal government has gotten somewhat smarter by recently requiring this of visitors from some known Middle Eastern terrorist supporting nations. But let's face it. Serious terrorists can just get phoney documents making them look like citizens of any other country not on the ban (another way profiling can help). The travel industry lobby is very guilty on this level. Fuck them. National security comes before some travel agent's bank account.

We need common sense people... If you want better security we need some legal tools. WE NEED PROFILING of passengers at airports. Profiling is and always has been an effective law enforcement tool. It is now forbidden by the radical left and being bred out of new police recruits. Any airport or airline worker who goes anywhere near a plane must be able to pass a verifiable background check that goes a lot farther than two weeks ago.

There will never be security as long as leftist PC madness rules the day. Everyone knows who wants to crash airplanes into prime targets to hurt us....and they have made it known that they wish to do it again....and they will. Does anyone think we are actually a society that cares about security when people of certain ethnic persuassions are winning lawsuits because their feelings were hurt. A Secret Service officer even sued because he felt he was "profiled" and singled out because of his ethnicity. He won his suit, kept his job and pocketed a sizeable amount of cash.

The terrorists know our fucked up PC culture and laugh at us. They use it in their favor. 9/11 would never have happened if this type of thinking was not rampant.

There will never be security and we are doomed for more days like 9/11. It's almost 2 years now and almost nothing has been done on the domestic front. The only thing that has happened is that some people who felt "offended" have gotten rich from lawsuits. The politicians don't give two shits either. All they care about is pandering for votes and campaign cash. Very few could care less about security.

So.... Until we throw PC bullshit aside and every cockpit is secure.... I say give the pilots guns. What does it matter if they were in the military or not? Weapons training is not that hard unless you are a stupid, clumsy, accident prone clod. If they are... should these people be flying commercial planes?
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 03:00 AM

I agree with what Madman says. Much more can be done besides putting a gun on a plane. There are many disarming techniques that are fast and effective. Unless the pilot is a navy seal he would lose the gun. As much as the terrorists train for an event if they knew a gun was on the plane they would work it into the plan and it would be theirs. I carry a gun everyday and am a master firearms instructor but still would not want to have to place a bullet center mass of a terrorist in a plane with upwards of 200 people yelling and screaming.

The problem lies on the ground plain and simple. Secure the doors to the cabin profile the people who actually commit the crimes against us. A friend of mine just went to Germany and back. She is 501 100 pounds white female. She was searched both times she went through the gate coming and going. They said it was random. It is nuts.
Posted by: Olegkha

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 04:23 AM

Madman: Not too many americans want to take a job at Airport security
wana know why ?

because the salary is too low ( and they are too LAZY to work for a small salary, they will flap their mouth and do nothing , but will not work for small salary! )

I worked in JFK security for about 6 month, and then i was transfered to a different part of the company that i worked for ( still inside of the airport )
80 % of security personal in Delta terminal was NON american natives
and 10 % of those had LOTS of Language problems
( This holds true for All terminals )

So unleas the rates will go up, we will not see american people working there (4 years ago salary was 6 $ )
Posted by: Trihead

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 05:14 AM

NY Madman....I truly believe this is the first time I have totally agreed with an entire post or yours. laugh Well said.
Posted by: seamonkey

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 06:26 AM

My brother-in-law is a airline pilot. He used to be a police officer and I dont think there would be any problem with him carry in a pistol.

The safety rounds are Glaser Safety Slugs

The pilots call the TSA, "Thousands Standing Around". A 20 year old TSA agent took his finger nail clipper from him, citing it was a weapon. He looked at them like, "I'm flying the plane and could run it into the ground if I wanted to."
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 07:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Let's face facts Sean. You are against anyone possesing a handgun.
Not true. I've NEVER stated I was against people posessing firearms, as long as a proper background check is conducted prior to the purchase of said weapon. What I AM against is non-military personel posessing military designed weapons (i.e. AK-47 assault rifles and the likes). I personally do not own a hand gun, not because I'm against them, but because I have no need for one.
Posted by: Andre the Giant

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 07:55 AM

Let the pilots carry a firearm. I trust the pilots with my life every time I get on the plane. Geez, if the pilot wanted to kill the passengers on the plane, he or she could just overpower the co-pilot and ram the plane into a mountian while the flight attendants frantically try to ascertain what's going on through the bullet proof door. There have only been a few of instances where a pilot purposely crashed a jetliner... most of them involve Egyptian or Saudi pilots. :rolleyes:
Posted by: babyX

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 07:59 AM

I'd rather see cops stationed on every plane than arm the pilots. I want the pilot to concentrate on flying the damn plane, not taking down a terrorist.
Posted by: TravelingFool

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaws_o_life:
Pilots are pilots, cops are cops. There is a reason for this. I would like to hear what career pilots or police officers on this board have to say about the prospect of a dual role.
Shit... this argument won't take you too far! Most pilots I've ever met (I used to be a Platinum frequent traveller with Northwest) are responsible ex-military folks who'd be VERY comfortable with a sidearm.

Most cops I've ever dealt with (most, not all) are under-educated immature "bullies" on a power trip who shouldn't have been given a gun in the first place.

I believe that all cops are under-paid. If you paid them well and raised the requirements about what it takes to be a cop, we'd be better off.

In any case, give the pilots guns... all of them. At the very least, assign one gun per cockpit or one per captain.
Posted by: Andre the Giant

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by babyX:
I'd rather see cops stationed on every plane than arm the pilots. I want the pilot to concentrate on flying the damn plane, not taking down a terrorist.
Putting armed cops on a plane, in the cabin is kinda stupid if you ask me. I don't want the guns accessable to the terrorists. All they would have to do is subdue the cop, take the gun, then who's in charge? Keep the guns in the cockpit, where they are secure. The pilots are the last line of defense. If the passengers are unable to subdue the bad guys, one of the pilots should have the means to do so.

There are two pilots on every flight... more than enough to fly the plane, AND take care of blowing a terrorist away.

Do you fly very often? I do, and I'd venture to say most of those who fly are completely comfortable with the idea of armed pilots.

The biggest question is... Why not arm the pilots? What is the harm in doing so?
Posted by: babyX

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:
Putting armed cops on a plane, in the cabin is kinda stupid if you ask me. I don't want the guns accessable to the terrorists. All they would have to do is subdue the cop, take the gun, then who's in charge? Keep the guns in the cockpit, where they are secure. The pilots are the last line of defense. If the passengers are unable to subdue the bad guys, one of the pilots should have the means to do so.

There are two pilots on every flight... more than enough to fly the plane, AND take care of blowing a terrorist away.

Do you fly very often? I do, and I'd venture to say most of those who fly are completely comfortable with the idea of armed pilots.

The biggest question is... Why not arm the pilots? What is the harm in doing so?
I don't know if I fly "often", but I do take several cross-country flights each year, and I am more than happy thinking NOBODY on the plane has a gun on them (supposedly). I would prefer it stay that way. Keep the friggin' weapons and terrorists off the planes in the first place.

I don't suppose it'll be long before we're all X-rayed, like in Total Recall.
Posted by: Andre the Giant

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 01:38 PM

Do you not trust the pilots with a weapon? If so, then why do you even get on the plane? If they are so untrustworthy, why trust your life to them? It sounds like a pretty irrational fear to me.
Posted by: babyX

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 01:49 PM

Which pilots? The drunk ones or the sober ones?
Posted by: GrayHam

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 01:50 PM

NY Madman had the best answer, one I've been saying to anyone who will listen since about September 12, 2001 . . .

The airlines need better doors to the cockpit. Guns don't matter a damn if the terrorists can't get on the flightdeck.

If the terrorists are armed, can they kill some passengers? Yes.
Can they kill all the passengers? Yes.
Can they depressurize the plane? Yes.

Can they take control and fly the fucking thing into a high-rise office building or miltary complex, killing thousands and throwing the country into a full-on pant-shitting frenzy? Fuck no . . .

What did the 9/11 guys have? Box cutters?
Maybe if the doors weren't cardboard, it wouldn't have happened . . .
Posted by: Andre the Giant

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by babyX:
Which pilots? The drunk ones or the sober ones?
[Laughing] [LOL]
Posted by: Booya

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 27/08/03 07:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-08-25-guns-cockpit_x.htm

Topic: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not?
Reinforced cockpits?... should have been done in the 1st place. This takes care of taking over the plane.

Safety of the passengers on high profile flights? Air Marshals are the best option, yet it is expensive. If not the Marshals then Hell YES, arm those pilots... with some extensive training of course.

Terrorist with box cutter vs. trained Pilot with a gun? No problems.
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 12:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:
Do you not trust the pilots with a weapon? If so, then why do you even get on the plane? If they are so untrustworthy, why trust your life to them? It sounds like a pretty irrational fear to me.
Like I said in my post it is not that I do not trust them with the guns it is just putting that gun on the plane. No human would be able to sit by and listen to others get murdered so then the pilot exits the cockpit and could possibly have the gun taken from him. Then not only is the cockpit open the terrorists have the gun.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hartwig:

Like I said in my post it is not that I do not trust them with the guns it is just putting that gun on the plane. No human would be able to sit by and listen to others get murdered so then the pilot exits the cockpit and could possibly have the gun taken from him. Then not only is the cockpit open the terrorists have the gun.
You watch too many movies.....
Posted by: InfX708

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 08:50 AM

I had to opportunity to hang out in the cockpit for about an hour on the flight over here. There are usually 3 guys up there, and only one is usually sitting near the controls at any one time. The planes basically fly themselves now. I think that if necessary, one or two of the aircrew could successfully defend the place with pistols.
Posted by: GrayHam

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by InfX708:
I had to opportunity to hang out in the cockpit for about an hour on the flight over here. There are usually 3 guys up there, and only one is usually sitting near the controls at any one time. The planes basically fly themselves now. I think that if necessary, one or two of the aircrew could successfully defend the place with pistols.
Uh huh . . .

And would they do all those cool rolls and shit, while yelling "Yippee ki-yay, motherfucker?"
Bruce Willis did it first . . .

I want an aircrew to lock themselves into a flightdeck, and be able to concentrate on getting an aircraft in distress down onto a runway where a whole shitload of armed experts is waiting . . .
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hartwig:

Like I said in my post it is not that I do not trust them with the guns it is just putting that gun on the plane. No human would be able to sit by and listen to others get murdered so then the pilot exits the cockpit and could possibly have the gun taken from him. Then not only is the cockpit open the terrorists have the gun.
You watch too many movies.....
Um no I know how easy it is to take a gun away from someone as I have been trained to do it myself. Even when I was at the academy training with other officers and I knew it was coming and how they were going to do it I still had extreme difficulty in keeping my gun and sometimes lost it.

I am agreeing with your suggestions as to beefing up the cockpits and prevent the terrorists from even making it on the plane. But as you said it will never happen that way and they will strike again.
Posted by: NismoXse02

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 11:50 AM

http://humor.gryphontech.com/pilots/

[Spit] [LOL]
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 11:53 AM

[Spit]
Posted by: Booya

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
I want an aircrew to lock themselves into a flightdeck, and be able to concentrate on getting an aircraft in distress down onto a runway where a whole shitload of armed experts is waiting . . .
Good point. Although, If I was a pilot flying over the ocean with several hours left until land, I would want a gun to go out and take care of business in a terrorist situation.

Then again, if they only have box cutters, there is always enough heroism in passengers to stop the threat, like they did in Pennsylvania on Sept. 11. In that situation, a sealed and protected cockpit would have brought that flight home.
Posted by: GrayHam

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Booya:
Good point. Although, If I was a pilot flying over the ocean with several hours left until land, I would want a gun to go out and take care of business in a terrorist situation.


Like NY Madman said (but in a different context), "You watch too many movies."

Quote:
Then again, if they only have box cutters, there is always enough heroism in passengers to stop the threat, like they did in Pennsylvania on Sept. 11. In that situation, a sealed and protected cockpit would have brought that flight home.
In each and every situation on 9/11, if the cockpit door was secure, and the pilots self-aware enough to not try opening the door until on the tarmac, every flight that day would have landed safely . . .
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

In each and every situation on 9/11, if the cockpit door was secure, and the pilots self-aware enough to not try opening the door until on the tarmac, every flight that day would have landed safely . . .
True. But in the very near future, this action towards preventing a terrorist act on a passenger jetliner will be a moot point. The next attack will come from a shoulder fired missle, possibly a U.S. made Stinger.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 28/08/03 06:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

True. But in the very near future, this action towards preventing a terrorist act on a passenger jetliner will be a moot point. The next attack will come from a shoulder fired missle, possibly a U.S. made Stinger.
Yeah right.... Of course it would HAVE to be a US made Stinger.

Let me ask you something ....Does a "blame America first" leftist such as yourself really mean it is "possible" it could be a U.S. made Stinger or do I detect the vivid stench that you are hoping a U.S. made Stinger would be used in such an attack? That would make it nice and convienient to blame the U.S. instead of the terrorist scum.

The reality is such an attack would most likely come from a Russian made SA-7 or SA-18 shoulder launched surface to air missile.... or a Chinese made system.

Shoulder launched SAM's (Surface-to-air-missiles) are known as MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems).

There is a relatively small amount of American made Stingers unaccounted for on the black market. It is believed to be less than 500 and most would no longer be operational. We only gave the Afghans 400 of them in the 80's and most of those are probably no longer operational.

European allies were also given the technical specs for the Stinger many years ago and produced their own versions. (Even the Swiss have a version out there)

There are however literally tens of thousands of MANPADS made by other countries (about 150,000 unaccounted for). Most are the Russian made MANPADS. The rest are mostly French and Chinese made units and a few are even British and Swiss.

Any American made Stingers out there in circulation are also very expensive on the black market. An SA-7 can be obtained much more cheaply. Would a terrorist prefer the American made model if operational... maybe ... but they could buy a handful of SA-7's for the price of a single Stinger. In both cases they are taking a chance whether the units would work at all.

So the odds are very low that an American made Stinger would be used. Most likely a Russian or Chinese made weapon. The communist Chinese (America's largest and strangely never discussed enemy) are selling tons of weapons all over the place and mostly to America's other enemies. Also the newer Chinese QW-2 MANPADS are supposed to be superior to Stingers. (The newest QW-4 in development should be in terrorist hands in the near future.... maybe in time for Ramadan)
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 29/08/03 07:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

True. But in the very near future, this action towards preventing a terrorist act on a passenger jetliner will be a moot point. The next attack will come from a shoulder fired missle, possibly a U.S. made Stinger.
Yeah right.... Of course it would HAVE to be a US made Stinger.

Let me ask you something ....Does a "blame America first" leftist such as yourself really mean it is "possible" it could be a U.S. made Stinger or do I detect the vivid stench that you are hoping a U.S. made Stinger would be used in such an attack? That would make it nice and convienient to blame the U.S. instead of the terrorist scum.
You know something, you really need to get over yourself, or at the very least seek medical help for your delusional and paranoid episodes. It's comments like these that show to the members of this web site how much of a deuce bag you really are. I know you're just trying to piss me off, but come on now. I love this country as much as the next guy, but I won't just stand by if I feel my government fucked up. Granted there are more Russian shoulder fired missles on the black market, but there are still over 300 U.S. made Stingers unaccounted for (the CIA buy-back program was not successful and you know it), and by the last reports I've seen, the Stingers are more accurate. We both know this will be the next form of attack from the terrorists on a passenger plane, can you prove it won't be from a Stinger?
Posted by: austinbrtndr

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 30/08/03 06:40 AM

What if the pilots name is Belshazzar Yasin or something like that? Would you want a Middle Eastern pilot carrying a gun? I'm not saying that they're all bad, but you never know who is who anymore... hell, the way everything's going now, you never know if an American pilot is on their side...
Posted by: InfX708

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 30/08/03 04:11 PM

Most of the MANPADS that we've recovered have been of the SA-7 variety. Yes, Stingers are more accurate, but so is an AT-4 - yet the RPG-7 is more widely available and cheaper.
Code:
  
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 01:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

You know something, you really need to get over yourself, or at the very least seek medical help for your delusional and paranoid episodes. It's comments like these that show to the members of this web site how much of a deuce bag you really are. I know you're just trying to piss me off, but come on now. I love this country as much as the next guy, but I won't just stand by if I feel my government fucked up. Granted there are more Russian shoulder fired missles on the black market, but there are still over 300 U.S. made Stingers unaccounted for (the CIA buy-back program was not successful and you know it), and by the last reports I've seen, the Stingers are more accurate. We both know this will be the next form of attack from the terrorists on a passenger plane, can you prove it won't be from a Stinger?
So now you say it is down to 300 Stingers on the black market.

So with over 150,000 MANPADS on the black market, you feel the need to mention U.S made equipment as a most probable cause of an attack like this?.... I would say you are the one who is the total douchebag .

I don't believe for one second you love this country as you claim. Maybe so if the "next guy" is another leftist.... and that doesn't count for shit. All of your previous political posts are proof of that. You always look to blame your own country for everything first regardless of any information or facts available. I've noticed you never even consider the "fuck ups" of any other government. This thread is very evident of that fact.

If we are only missing 300 as you claim.... we are doing infinitely far better than any other government that produces these weapons. But then again you don't have a hatred for any of these governments so why would you even consider mentioning their irresponsible behavior or outright intentional responsibility for this situation. Regarding this MANPAD issue that is more than evident. The likelihood of a Stinger being used against one of our planes is probably the same as you hitting the LOTTO. I guess that doesn't mean a damn thing to you. To people like you... even if there were one weapon out there, that would be enough for you to criticize your own country and make us as into some kind of villian.

For a guy that blames his own government for much of the world's ills... you have a lot of nerve calling anyone paranoid. An idiot American citizen like you that sees his own country as a problem in the world is a major paranoid asshole. Of course an idiot like you would also ignore the mass insanity that is rampant in the majority of the nations on earth. But they are not America right. For a coward like you it it easiest to criticize America.

After all in a PC world it takes actual convictions and character to come out and say the truth and what is actually wrong in the world today. Qualities you seriously lack. A coward such as yourself does not cross the PC line. Blame everything on America. That is safe.

Every post regarding anything the U.S. government does or has done...seethes with venom on your part. Who the hell do you think you are kidding? And no.. This is not meant to piss you off. It is the truth.
Posted by: Lincoln

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
The reality is such an attack would most likely come from a Russian made SA-7 or SA-18 shoulder launched surface to air missile.... or a Chinese made system.

Shoulder launched SAM's (Surface-to-air-missiles) are known as MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems).

There is a relatively small amount of American made Stingers unaccounted for on the black market. It is believed to be less than 500 and most would no longer be operational. We only gave the Afghans 400 of them in the 80's and most of those are probably no longer operational.

European allies were also given the technical specs for the Stinger many years ago and produced their own versions. (Even the Swiss have a version out there)

There are however literally tens of thousands of MANPADS made by other countries (about 150,000 unaccounted for). Most are the Russian made MANPADS. The rest are mostly French and Chinese made units and a few are even British and Swiss.

Any American made Stingers out there in circulation are also very expensive on the black market. An SA-7 can be obtained much more cheaply. Would a terrorist prefer the American made model if operational... maybe ... but they could buy a handful of SA-7's for the price of a single Stinger. In both cases they are taking a chance whether the units would work at all.

So the odds are very low that an American made Stinger would be used. Most likely a Russian or Chinese made weapon. The communist Chinese (America's largest and strangely never discussed enemy) are selling tons of weapons all over the place and mostly to America's other enemies. Also the newer Chinese QW-2 MANPADS are supposed to be superior to Stingers. (The newest QW-4 in development should be in terrorist hands in the near future.... maybe in time for Ramadan)
All of this is true. The Russians and the Chinese supply the world with weapons. We have done it in the past. The Russians were supplying Iraq up until the start of the war. They also supply Pakistan. The only country that we outright supply is Israel. We are very careful and attentive with our weapons. I work in Naval Intelligence, so I know these statements to be true.
Posted by: Booya

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 02:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
In each and every situation on 9/11, if the cockpit door was secure, and the pilots self-aware enough to not try opening the door until on the tarmac, every flight that day would have landed safely . . .
Obviously. Sorry I didn't point that out but I thought it was inferred.
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

So with over 150,000 MANPADS on the black market, you feel the need to mention U.S made equipment as a most probable cause of an attack like this?.... I would say you are the one who is the total [b]douchebag .

I don't believe for one second you love this country as you claim. Maybe so if the "next guy" is another leftist.... and that doesn't count for shit. All of your previous political posts are proof of that. You always look to blame your own country for everything first regardless of any information or facts available. I've noticed you never even consider the "fuck ups" of any other government. This thread is very evident of that fact.

But then again you don't have a hatred for any of these governments so why would you even consider mentioning their irresponsible behavior or outright intentional responsibility for this situation. I guess that doesn't mean a damn thing to you. To people like you... even if there were one weapon out there, that would be enough for you to criticize your own country and make us as into some kind of villian.

For a guy that blames his own government for much of the world's ills... you have a lot of nerve calling anyone paranoid. An idiot American citizen like you that sees his own country as a problem in the world is a major paranoid asshole. Of course an idiot like you would also ignore the mass insanity that is rampant in the majority of the nations on earth. But they are not America right. For a coward like you it it easiest to criticize America.

After all in a PC world it takes actual convictions and character to come out and say the truth and what is actually wrong in the world today. Qualities you seriously lack. A coward such as yourself does not cross the PC line. Blame everything on America. That is safe.

Every post regarding anything the U.S. government does or has done...seethes with venom on your part. Who the hell do you think you are kidding? And no.. This is not meant to piss you off. It is the truth.[/b]
Boy, this shit is better than anything you hear on those idiot ultra-conservative radio shows. Do you feel better now getting that chip off your shoulder? Do you really think I care what a jerkoff like yourself thinks of me? You should write to FOX and ask them to air some of your paranoid propaganda, those guy's would eat your shit right up. What I really find entertaining is the fact that you think you know me, news flash: you don't know jack. The funny part is I actually agree with half the shit you post on this web site, but yet again in usual Madman fashion, as soon as someone disagrees with ANY part of your conservative ranting, they get labeled "Anti-American, Leftist, Deviant, Democrates".

[Sleep]

You are the real coward here, lashing out onto others with false accusations and name calling when they don't agree with your bullshit or when they show any sort of individualism; you truly are pathetic. No wonder you have no kids, no female alive in their right mind would want to continue your gene pool. You are a pure asshole in every sense of the word, as well as a total waste of sperm. And yet again you have shown that you're as predictable as the tide, and as complicated as a bar of soap. Do the world a favor and throw yourself under a bus.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 07:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

You are the real coward here, lashing out onto others with false accusations and name calling when they don't agree with your bullshit or when they show any sort of individualism; you truly are pathetic.
WTF are talking about? I called you a "blame America first leftist". That is what you consider name calling? That is what you ARE. Your post regarding the Stingers are one of many examples. As far as name calling, I would say you take it to a much lower level than I ever have. I very rarely EVER attack anyone personally without being attacked first. I attack their politics and they attack mine. I don't take it personally.

The same with you. I have attacked your leftist beliefs and the politically correct hatred for America that has been indoctrinated into you somehow. There is nothing individualistic about almost anything you post. (Well maybe your love for skanky women like Thora Birch... but that's it)

Let's face it. We do not like each other one bit. You have made more attempts to attack me on a personal level than I have ever made in your direction. But that will all change starting now. If that's what you want. That is what you will get.

I not surprised you stooped to this level considering I pointed out an aspect of your "blame America first" mentality. Little feminized PC lefty bitches like yourself always do this when exposed or loosing an argument.

Regarding the fact that I don't have children... How is that pertinent to anything? Maybe one day I will change my mind and have some. What's the big deal? I am not like you. I didn't marry my first blow job out of fear there would never be another one. I would also certainly not raise my children to be little "politically correct" socialists like you. And I certainly would not instruct them in any type of genitalia lessons as you have indicated your intent in other threads. By the way... How is that "penis training" going with your little Nikita?

And also if you are going to call me names...at least spell your slang terms correctly. Douche bag is not spelled "deuce bag". You are a married man and you do not know the correct spelling of the word "douche" by now? I can see along with common sense, "freshness" may be something else that is missing in your life. This is not France.
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 08:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

I would say you take it to a much lower level than I ever have. I very rarely EVER attack anyone personally without being attacked first. I attack their politics and they attack mine. I don't take it personally.
I can see we can add liar to your extensive resume as well. I've been a member of this board for more than a year now, and I've have read countless attacks by you onto others on this site.

Quote:
I have attacked your leftist beliefs and the politically correct hatred for America that has been indoctrinated into you somehow.
Which is fine, and I attack your right-wing paranoid propaganda, but you couldn't leave it at that. The problem between you and me is you made this a personal thing. Besides calling me the usual deviant and liberal, you called me a coward and a anti-Semite, and even went as far as to make lewd comments about my wife and child. One only has to review your past responses towards my person to see you started this at the personal level.

Quote:
Let's face it. We do not like each other one bit. You have made more attempts to attack me on a personal level than I have ever made in your direction. But that will all change starting now. If that's what you want. That is what you will get.
More lies. You are the king of name calling here, you're just not used to someone dishing it right back at you.

Quote:
I not surprised you stooped to this level considering I pointed out an aspect of your "blame America first" mentality. Little feminized PC lefty bitches like yourself always do this when exposed or loosing an argument.
Of course you're not suprised, you do it yourself all the time. You've lost many an argument here, which brings on your usual and predictable personal attacks. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black here, what a fucking hypocrite you are.

Quote:
the fact that I don't have children... How is that pertinent to anything? Maybe one day I will change my mind and have some. What's the big deal? I am not like you. I didn't marry my first blow job out of fear there would never be another one.
How would you know? Have you ever met me or my wife? Just more of your bullshit. It's very typical of you to make fun of my wife and my son again. But then again, I'm dealing with the lowest piece of shit on this web site.

Quote:
I would also certainly not raise my children to be little "politically correct" socialists like you. And I certainly would not instruct them in any type of genitalia lessons as you have indicated your intent in other threads. By the way... How is that "penis training" going with your little Nikita?
Do your potential future children a favor and don't have any. If this a sample of what they would have to endure, God help them.

:rolleyes:
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
I didn't marry my first blow job out of fear there would never be another one.
Damn, that was funny! laugh
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 01/09/03 10:32 PM

Sean....

Basically you post too much bullshit and lies to quote everything. But I will attempt to correct some of your BS.

You have been a member here for over 2 years. Much longer than I have. Not one year.

I do not lie. I state my opinions. I also dispute bullshit posted by you and some others and I usually present valid facts to back up my arguments. If I am wrong about something I freely admit it.

As far as attacks with other users are concerned.... as I stated previously, I rarely attack anyone personally without such an attack being perpetrated upon myself initially. I attack political opinions and propaganda. I am also a frequent target for the same. Probably more than anyone else on this board. This does not surprise me one bit considering the majority of the board leans to the left politically. It's all part of the issues and nature of the game.

You are the only user left here who hates me and attempts to attack me on a personal level. Any others have left or have been kicked off the board. Most others I respect and keep things civil as long as they are civil with me. Such is life whether on the internet or in person.

If you don't want your family members becoming fodder for ridicule, don't bring them up as ridiculous examples of your nonsense train of thought. For example the "penis training" issue with your little Nikita. You brought that upon yourself with your own lunatic rantings.

As far as your anti-Semitism goes.... Yes... I believe you are one. Only you yourself do not realize it. You think that having an in-law or a Jewish friend or something makes you immune to this hatred. Not true. You subscribe to the same anti-Semitic thought that most of the left does in their insane support for Palestinian terrorism and painting Israel as a villian. You are just not smart enough to have thought out even your own positions thoroughly. You are a follower by nature. You are incapable of an original opinion that has not been rubber stamped by any type of politically correct thought.

There is no bigger hypocrite on XOC than you.

I feel sorry for your son. I really do. In a perfect world he would have been blessed with a father who knows right from wrong. He will never be taught love of God and country by his mother and father. He will never be taught pride for his heritage. His parents know nothing but hatred and contempt for these things.

You are someone filled with hate. The sad thing is you don't even have a clue as to how poisoned your mind has become.
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 05:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Basically you post too much bullshit and lies to quote everything. But I will attempt to correct some of your BS.
I lie? That's a good one. I haven't ONCE lied about ANYTHING I have posted on this site. You on the other hand have proven your metal many times over.

Quote:
You have been a member here for over 2 years. Much longer than I have. Not one year.
How is this a lie on my part? My exact quote was "for over a year now". Now you're just grasping at straws. Keep trying nimrod.

Quote:
I do not lie. I state my opinions. I also dispute bullshit posted by you and some others and I usually present valid facts to back up my arguments. If I am wrong about something I freely admit it.
I dare you to find anything that I posted that is bullshit or a lie. I too state my opinions, and dispute bullshit that comes from ultra right-wing dimwits like yourself. If you don't agree to my opinion, tough shit.

Quote:
As far as attacks with other users are concerned.... as I stated previously, I rarely attack anyone personally without such an attack being perpetrated upon myself initially.
When are you going to "Cowboy Up" and face the music? Then explain why you first got personal with me? Things were fine between us until you called me a anti-Semite after I expressed my opinion on how Sharon should have stayed away from the Temple Mount. Many times over, when the debate doesn't go your way, the little bitch in you comes out, and the personal attacks begin.

Quote:
I am also a frequent target for the same. Probably more than anyone else on this board. This does not surprise me one bit considering the majority of the board leans to the left politically. It's all part of the issues and nature of the game.
The first bit of truth you've posted so far in this argument. Did you ever think for one minute that you actually DESERVED the attacks from others? Face it, you come here to stir shit, you most certainly don't come here for information on your Xterra. Being the "Shock Jock" you think you are, you shouldn't expect anything less than what you deserve.

Quote:
You are the only user left here who hates me and attempts to attack me on a personal level. Any others have left or have been kicked off the board. Most others I respect and keep things civil as long as they are civil with me. Such is life whether on the internet or in person.
I've laid off the attacks on you for sometime now, I even atempted to be civil with you at the begining of this thread, but as usual, you brought it right down into the mud. I'm not suprised, you're always inventing these "little wars" that exist between yourself and the people you don't agree with. Funny thing about respect, it's earned not given, and after reading your comments about my family, you'll never earn mine. As I've stated before, if you have any backbone at all, you'll keep your future attacks focused on me and not my family.

Quote:
There is no bigger hypocrite on XOC than you.
[LOL] [LOL] [LOL] [LOL] [LOL]

Quote:
I feel sorry for your son. I really do. In a perfect world he would have been blessed with a father who knows right from wrong. He will never be taught love of God and country by his mother and father. He will never be taught pride for his heritage. His parents know nothing but hatred and contempt for these things.
Funny, I feel the same way if you were to have kids. Your children will be brought up as brainwashed paranoid and delusional homophobic hate mongers like yourself.

Quote:
You are someone filled with hate. The sad thing is you don't even have a clue as to how poisoned your mind has become.
Have you looked in the mirror lately?

:rolleyes:
Posted by: off2cjb

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 05:31 AM

NO, pilots should not be allowed to carry guns. They are not trained to use them. Even if they were trained, the majority wouldn't have what it takes to do the job. Also, most pilots are too old and lack any kind of physical or mental training to handle such a thing as stopping three or so terrorists.
This is such a knee-jerk reaction. Stupidity at its best.
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
NO, pilots should not be allowed to carry guns. They are not trained to use them. Even if they were trained, the majority wouldn't have what it takes to do the job. Also, most pilots are too old and lack any kind of physical or mental training to handle such a thing as stopping three or so terrorists.
This is such a knee-jerk reaction. Stupidity at its best.
Explain what you mean by "wouldn't have what it takes to do the job." smile
Posted by: off2cjb

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 09:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]NO, pilots should not be allowed to carry guns. They are not trained to use them. Even if they were trained, the majority wouldn't have what it takes to do the job. Also, most pilots are too old and lack any kind of physical or mental training to handle such a thing as stopping three or so terrorists.
This is such a knee-jerk reaction. Stupidity at its best.
Explain what you mean by "wouldn't have what it takes to do the job." smile [/b]
They are fly boys, not shooters. It takes a little something extra to shoot a man at point blank range. There is no way a normal pilot working on his 17th year in the sky will ever pull the trigger. It is the same figures that show guns in the house are rarely used against criminals but greatly used against the owners.

Special forces onboard all planes will do the trick. It only requires 1-2 of them and will be a great training role for them.
Posted by: jaws_o_life

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 11:18 AM

Like I mentioned earlier, where are the REAL resident experts (Career Cops and Pilots) and they commentary.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 12:05 PM

Quote:
Posted by Sean:

Funny, I feel the same way if you were to have kids. Your children will be brought up as brainwashed paranoid and delusional homophobic hate mongers like yourself.
Is that what everything involving you comes down to? Some type of pro homosexual thing. I guess that explains why you didn't know how to spell the word "douche". You have no interest in the vagina. (Obviously not a clean, fresh and trim one) I bet someone like you would never misspell the word Vasoline.

Regarding your anti-Semitism.... I have no idea when I called you on it... but I did. You have posted so much typical lefty bullshit in support of Palestinian terrorism it is too hard to keep track. You spew the same shit as all the other leftist types and you are all anti-Semites. You hate the State of Israel and the root of that is your hatred of jews. Plain and simple. I am just the only one who called you on it.

I suggest you re-read the whole thread again. It was you that sent it into the mud. I called you a "blame America first leftist". That is what you consider mud slinging? Damn... It's the truth.

Maybe we should see if some moderator wishes to start a poll? Is Sean a "blame America first leftist"? (Yes/No)

I think you would be shocked by the results lefty boy.
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 12:12 PM

Isnt any liberal leftist a member of the "blame america first" club? Seems like it anyway.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:

Isnt any liberal leftist a member of the "blame america first" club? Seems like it anyway.
Yes.... You are correct Sir.
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Is that what everything involving you comes down to? Some type of pro homosexual thing.
You should talk. I'm not the one here who pisses into gas tanks with their male friends.

[LOL]

Quote:
Regarding your anti-Semitism.... I have no idea when I called you on it... but I did. You have posted so much typical lefty bullshit in support of Palestinian terrorism it is too hard to keep track. You spew the same shit as all the other leftist types and you are all anti-Semites. You hate the State of Israel and the root of that is your hatred of jews. Plain and simple. I am just the only one who called you on it.
How much acid did you drop as a kid? Here's yet another prime example of "Madman's World", you know, the one where you "invent" an issue that never exsisted to begin with. All I said about this subject was how Israel should give some the land back they took in the 1967 war, and maybe this goodwill gesture would re-kindle the peace process. This makes me an anti-Semite? I've also noticed that just about all your arguments here on this site are built on conjecture and assumption.

Quote:
I suggest you re-read the whole thread again. It was you that sent it into the mud. I called you a "blame America first leftist". That is what you consider mud slinging? Damn... It's the truth.
I see your short term memory could use help as well. Again you started down the path of "Make Believe" and accused me of America bashing just because I mentioned that the next attack MAY come from a U.S. built Stinger. I bet you were ignored as a child.

Quote:
Maybe we should see if some moderator wishes to start a poll? Is Sean a "blame America first leftist"? (Yes/No)

I think you would be shocked by the results lefty boy.
Who bloody cares? If individualism is a crime, questioning the governments or the Church's actions on important issues is considered unpatriotic, or not blindly following the right-wing's paranoid bullshit propaganda that is spewed out these days is being a "Lefist", then consider me guilty as charged.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 07:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

How much acid did you drop as a kid? Here's yet another prime example of "Madman's World", you know, the one where you "invent" an issue that never exsisted to begin with. All I said about this subject was how Israel should give some the land back they took in the 1967 war, and maybe this goodwill gesture would re-kindle the peace process. This makes me an anti-Semite? I've also noticed that just about all your arguments here on this site are built on conjecture and assumption.
There you go again. Your leftist memory is very selective. Did you forget Ehud Barak's offer of 97% of the territories to the Palestinians? Arafat said NO. That would mean the "jew killing" business might have to stop and they would actually have to form a functioning society. It is more profitable to be a terrorist when the West is loaded with anti-Semite supporters like you.

Quote:
If individualism is a crime, questioning the governments or the Church's actions on important issues is considered unpatriotic, or not blindly following the right-wing's paranoid bullshit propaganda that is spewed out these days is being a "Lefist", then consider me guilty as charged.
That's the point. There is nothing "individualistic" about any of your positions. Everything you believe in is straight down the leftist agenda. It is all propaganda of hate and racism and you parrot every idea and concept of it. Not one iota of original thought.

Regarding anything Church related, what the fuck do you care? You're an atheist. Nothing they do affects you anyway. You have nothing but blind hatred and contempt for the Church so your opinion in these matters doesn't count for a damn thing.

The only thing new I have learned about you in this thread is that you seem to not mind dirty smelly snatch (if you even like pussy at all... I have my doubts).

EDIT: I may have figured out where you get some of your liberalism and leftism. I found this picture on your web photo album. You are one of those Star Trek freaks! (Talk about people detached from reality). Isn't that the show that is basically communists in space? No money... the government controls everything... the Star Government uses the UN flag...political correctness galore (enough to make you physically sick). You are like a little boy who never grew up. A grown man displaying all his sci-fi toys. The spaceships in the back and the batmobile in the front. Do you pretend to be Batman also? I bet the gay outfit and hanging around with a teenage boy (also in a gay outfit) was the main attraction for you. This picture explains a lot about your adult detachment from the realities of the world. It's time to grow up....

Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 08:16 PM

[img]http://www.grovestreet.com/servlet/View?pid=145137&cd=625&sz=m[/img][/QB]

Hmmm... let's see... those look to be entirely Corgi diecasts.

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Green Hornet, Beatle's Yellow Submarine, Monkee's Car, Batmobiles, Bond DB-6's, Kojak's Buick, Space 1999 ships. I only see two Star Trek toys there - the Enterprise and a Klingon Ship (I think).

Oh, and it looks like 1 Hot Wheels - Mustang or Cuda, not sure.

Those are fairly collectible.
Posted by: Lincoln

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 08:21 PM

[Spit]
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 08:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

EDIT: I may have figured out where you get some of your liberalism and leftism. I found this picture on your web photo album. You are one of those Star Trek freaks! (Talk about people detached from reality). Isn't that the show that is basically communists in space? No money... the government controls everything... the Star Government uses the UN flag...political correctness galore (enough to make you physically sick). You are like a little boy who never grew up. A grown man displaying all his sci-fi toys. The spaceships in the back and the batmobile in the front. Do you pretend to be Batman also? I bet the gay outfit and hanging around with a teenage boy (also in a gay outfit) was the main attraction for you. This picture explains a lot about your adult detachment from the realities of the world. It's time to grow up....

[img]http://www.grovestreet.com/servlet/View?pid=145137&cd=625&sz=m[/img]
Wow! I don't know where to begin. You've just about called me every name under the sun, and to boot, blamed me for everything that is wrong with this country today. What's next, I know, you'll somehow link me to Osama Bin Laden and how he's actually my love child!

You truly are the most psychotic person on this board. How the State of NY trusted you to protect the public and issue you a firearm is beyond me. It's also hard for me to believe that a normal human being could have wrote that shit storm of your's, it's just beyond comprehension. Do you have any proof of any of it? (of course not, it's all from your warped imagination). As usual you're just ducking the main issue with sophmoric humor, hoping someone else will jump on your hate band wagon. In a way though I'm kinda flattered. To think the infamous NY Madman actually took the time to enter my picture album (trying to find dirt on me no less), but all you could come up with was a picture of my toy collecton (which will be passed to my son when he's old enough). Keep trying to embarrass me, it only makes you look more like the pathetic asshole you really are.

:rolleyes:
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 08:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

Hmmm... let's see... those look to be entirely Corgi diecasts.

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Green Hornet, Beatle's Yellow Submarine, Monkee's Car, Batmobiles, Bond DB-6's, Kojak's Buick, Space 1999 ships. I only see two Star Trek toys there - the Enterprise and a Klingon Ship (I think).

Oh, and it looks like 1 Hot Wheels - Mustang or Cuda, not sure.

Those are fairly collectible.
Moby, I'm impressed. Is there anything you don't know? The collection is indeed comprised of 1968 through 1974 Corgi's, as well as some vintage Dinky's (all from England of course). There's also one Hot Wheels car, a Mustang Boss 302. I only collect the die-cast models from TV series. My collection is actually worth some good coin too, the 1st edition mint condition 1968 Bat Mobile (no box) is worth over $200 alone!

laugh
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 08:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

[b]Hmmm... let's see... those look to be entirely Corgi diecasts.

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Green Hornet, Beatle's Yellow Submarine, Monkee's Car, Batmobiles, Bond DB-6's, Kojak's Buick, Space 1999 ships. I only see two Star Trek toys there - the Enterprise and a Klingon Ship (I think).

Oh, and it looks like 1 Hot Wheels - Mustang or Cuda, not sure.

Those are fairly collectible.
Moby, I'm impressed. Is there anything you don't know? The collection is indeed comprised of 1968 through 1974 Corgi's, as well as some vintage Dinky's (all from England of course). There's also one Hot Wheels car, a Mustang Boss 302. I only collect the die-cast models from TV series. My collection is actually worth some good coin too, the 1st edition mint condition 1968 Bat Mobile (no box) is worth over $200 alone!

laugh [/b]
I have a few Hot Wheels, a few Matchbox cars. But mostly I have Pocket Cars (Tomica).

To think what I had when I was 5...makes me cry thinking how valuable those are now.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 02/09/03 09:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

[b]Hmmm... let's see... those look to be entirely Corgi diecasts.

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Green Hornet, Beatle's Yellow Submarine, Monkee's Car, Batmobiles, Bond DB-6's, Kojak's Buick, Space 1999 ships. I only see two Star Trek toys there - the Enterprise and a Klingon Ship (I think).

Oh, and it looks like 1 Hot Wheels - Mustang or Cuda, not sure.

Those are fairly collectible.
Moby, I'm impressed. Is there anything you don't know? The collection is indeed comprised of 1968 through 1974 Corgi's, as well as some vintage Dinky's (all from England of course). There's also one Hot Wheels car, a Mustang Boss 302. I only collect the die-cast models from TV series. My collection is actually worth some good coin too, the 1st edition mint condition 1968 Bat Mobile (no box) is worth over $200 alone!

[/b]


Oh... Kojak's car is there? How could I have missed that? I guess Sean must be a real macho guy to have bought that.

The Batmobile is worth $200. Well I'm sorry I overlooked your investment prowess.

Maybe by the time little Nikita is done with your penis training curriculum it could be worth $300.

Is this what feminized grown men do in your neck of the woods? Collect toys? Give me a fucking break. You are trying to pass your childish ways off by claiming you will be passing this shit on to your kid. Who are you kidding. Toys are for kids. Give them to him NOW. You won't because they are YOUR toys. Besides... what makes you think the kid will like sci-fi and comic toys? Maybe he wants a toy gun. I doubt someone like you would even consider that idea. Aren't you concerned he will someday think his father is a geek?.

When you become a man, you put away childish things. I posted this picture because it is indicative of your mentality. I was somewhat shocked by seeing it...but not much. It showed a childish man still holding on to his childish fanatasies. I also bet most of that shit was purchased after you supposedly became an adult. I was curious as to what your link contained. I bet you will no doubt remove the picture now.

Buy the kid an air rifle. Not a Star Trek model....
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 05:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Oh... Kojak's car is there? How could I have missed that? I guess Sean must be a real macho guy to have bought that.

The Batmobile is worth $200. Well I'm sorry I overlooked your investment prowess.

Maybe by the time little Nikita is done with your penis training curriculum it could be worth $300.

Is this what feminized grown men do in your neck of the woods? Collect toys? Give me a fucking break. You are trying to pass your childish ways off by claiming you will be passing this shit on to your kid. Who are you kidding. Toys are for kids. Give them to him NOW. You won't because they are YOUR toys. Besides... what makes you think the kid will like sci-fi and comic toys? Maybe he wants a toy gun. I doubt someone like you would even consider that idea. Aren't you concerned he will someday think his father is a geek?.

When you become a man, you put away childish things. I posted this picture because it is indicative of your mentality. I was somewhat shocked by seeing it...but not much. It showed a childish man still holding on to his childish fanatasies. I also bet most of that shit was purchased after you supposedly became an adult. I was curious as to what your link contained. I bet you will no doubt remove the picture now.

Buy the kid an air rifle. Not a Star Trek model....
Is this the best you can do? I see your all out of material and must resort to the personal attacks which you are famous for (keep milking the "little Nikita" joke, maybe after the 50th time someone will find it funny). Really, sometimes I don't know why I even bother with a low life like yourself, all you can do is start with the name calling when you run out of intelligent things to write about, and I'm the childish one? No I won't be removing the link, what's there to be ashamed about? These collectables are not just toy's, they are a reminder of how life was back in the late 60's and early 70's. I for one had a great childhood, are you jealous? And yes my son will get my collection, but not until he old enough to realize how much it's worth. He's not even 4 yet, and all he'd do is break them.

What I'd really like to know is what are you trying to accomplish here? Do you think simple name calling will somehow declare you the winner of this so called argument? It's true you and I will never see eye to eye, but what I think you are attempting is to somehow goad me into posting something worthy of being banned. Guess what, if I get banned, it won't be because of you. Keep trying there hate monger, I've dealt with MUCH worse than vermon like yourself.

As for buying my son a toy gun (or an air rifle), that won't happen any time soon. First off, gun's don't make a man "Macho", you should know that. My son will learn to defend himself in other way's (hopefully using his wits first). As for the air rifle, we don't live on a farm, we live in a suburban setting without any woods, so what could he possibly do with an air rifle besides get into trouble?
Posted by: Andre the Giant

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 06:29 AM

Damnit NY Madam, Sean's collectables are fucking awesome! It might be different if Sean was collecting Beanie Babies or Precious Moments, but die cast collectable cars!?! Give it a rest NY fagman.

(My apologies to any homosexuals who may take offense in my use of the word...) [Finger]
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

These collectables are not just toy's, they are a reminder of how life was back in the late 60's and early 70's. I for one had a great childhood, are you jealous? And yes my son will get my collection, but not until he old enough to realize how much it's worth. He's not even 4 yet, and all he'd do is break them.

What I'd really like to know is what are you trying to accomplish here?
I wasn't trying to accomplish anything. I was just shocked at a grown man with a toy collection. That's it. It shocks me even more that you say you received them when you were a kid. All the toys I had as a kid were used and I'm sure smashed to pieces...while I was still a kid. I had a great childhood too, but I outgrew playing with toys at an early age. I never spent much time in the house as a kid. We were always out doing things, playing ball or a favorite NY pastime... getting into mischief. I guess I just don't relate to the toy fascination...especially for a grown man. (I still think you are one of those Star trek freaks though).

As for little Nikita... I forgot he was less than 4 years old. I guess you can wait until next year to buy him a rifle. Oh and by the way.... teach him to fight with his fists. Not his wits. The other kids will be using their fists. A kid that knows how to fight and defend himself is always a much happier, confident and well adjusted kid. No matter what your liberal ideals tell you.

I still think you should give the kid the toys. What do you say when he asks to play with them? "No.. they are Daddy's toys!" So what if he smashes them. Isn't that one of the great things about being a kid...smashing up your toys?

Oh and by the way Andre.... [Finger] [Finger]
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

I wasn't trying to accomplish anything. I was just shocked at a grown man with a toy collection.
With all the fucked up things that go on in the world everyday, the fact that I own some diecast car's "shocks you"? You REALLY need to get out more.

Quote:
All the toys I had as a kid were used and I'm sure smashed to pieces...while I was still a kid.
Why am I not suprised.

Quote:
I had a great childhood too, but I outgrew playing with toys at an early age. I never spent much time in the house as a kid. We were always out doing things, playing ball or a favorite NY pastime... getting into mischief. I guess I just don't relate to the toy fascination...especially for a grown man. (I still think you are one of those Star trek freaks though).
What are you trying say here? Does smashing your toy's and getting into trouble at an early age make you more "cool" than me? Or that because I had received toy cars for gifts means I never went outside and played sports? I highly doubt I'm the only one on this site that collects things of this nature. I think deep down inside you wish you had cool toy's to play with like I did when I was a child. By the way, what kind of toy's do functionally retarded children play with anyway, please fill us in.

Quote:
As for little Nikita... I forgot he was less than 4 years old. I guess you can wait until next year to buy him a rifle.
What in the world would a 4 or 5 year old from suburbia need a real rifle for? I'd much rather get him something that can actually help him develope into an intelligent person, possibly his own computer.

Quote:
Oh and by the way.... teach him to fight with his fists. Not his wits. The other kids will be using their fists.
I plan on doing one better, I'm enrolling him into a Karate school as soon as he becomes of age. Not only will he be able to use his fists to DEFEND himself, he'll also be taught to use his wits by learning discipline, the best of both worlds.

Quote:
I still think you should give the kid the toys. What do you say when he asks to play with them? "No.. they are Daddy's toys!" So what if he smashes them. Isn't that one of the great things about being a kid...smashing up your toys?
For you maybe. Destruction is much easier than construction isn't it? My son has plenty of his own toy's to smash up, he doesn't even know my collection exists. They are stored safely out of reach from his prying hands
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

What in the world would a 4 or 5 year old from suburbia need a real rifle for? I'd much rather get him something that can actually help him develope into an intelligent person, possibly his own computer.
Definitely.... I'm with you on that one. The sooner he starts surfing the net and is introduced to porn and meeting gays and pedophiles in chat rooms... the better...right?

Quote:
I plan on doing one better, I'm enrolling him into a Karate school as soon as he becomes of age. Not only will he be able to use his fists to DEFEND himself, he'll also be taught to use his wits by learning discipline, the best of both worlds.
You know...that brings back some great memories. We used to love beating up those kids from the Karate school when I was young. Thank's for the walk down memory lane....

Quote:
Destruction is much easier than construction isn't it?
Sure.... Both can be fun

Quote:
My son has plenty of his own toy's to smash up, he doesn't even know my collection exists. They are stored safely out of reach from his prying hands
Prying hands?...... Poor little Nikita. And I'm sure he speaks well of you... Then again maybe he doesn't.

You're easy to egg on aren't you?
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 04:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

[QBDefinitely.... I'm with you on that one. The sooner he starts surfing the net and is introduced to porn and meeting gays and pedophiles in chat rooms... the better...right?[/QB]
Is this how it started for you? Or was it the Priest at your local Parish? I have one question: Did you like it?

Quote:
You know...that brings back some great memories. We used to love beating up those kids from the Karate school when I was young. Thank's for the walk down memory lane....
It seems you always have to remind everyone what a tough guy you are. Still got that inferiority complex steming from a small penis, huh? I bet your whole life is a lie, and the only people you ever beat up were much smaller and weaker than you. A real tough guy would never lower himself by bragging. Does making fun of other peoples families help fill the hole that is your life? Your how old and you're still not married? I hear Hawaii has legalized gay marriages, quick now's your chance!

Quote:
Prying hands?...... Poor little Nikita. And I'm sure he speaks well of you... Then again maybe he doesn't.
Funny how you have to make fun of a 3 yr old child, again, but that's what bullies do, right? Perhaps it's more than that, how many posts has it been that you mentioned my kid, over ten I estimate. I don't know if I like this fixation you have for my son.

Quote:
You're easy to egg on aren't you?
Actually, I thought I was doing pretty good against you these past couple day's. However bad this conversation gets, I can at least take solice in knowing that I actually have a life, and a life which includes a loving family, something you don't have, and probably never will.
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 04:38 PM

This is the funniest thread in weeks. [Spit]
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 03/09/03 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

Is this how it started for you? Or was it the Priest at your local Parish? I have one question: Did you like it?

It seems you always have to remind everyone what a tough guy you are. Still got that inferiority complex steming from a small penis, huh? I bet your whole life is a lie, and the only people you ever beat up were much smaller and weaker than you. A real tough guy would never lower himself by bragging. Does making fun of other peoples families help fill the hole that is your life? Your how old and you're still not married? I hear Hawaii has legalized gay marriages, quick now's your chance!

Funny how you have to make fun of a 3 yr old child, again, but that's what bullies do, right? Perhaps it's more than that, how many posts has it been that you mentioned my kid, over ten I estimate. I don't know if I like this fixation you have for my son.
You miss the point Sean. I am not making fun of your son, little Nikita. I actually feel bad for the kid. I never even knew you had a kid until you mentioned your intention to instruct him in the ways of the penis in another thread a while back (That was a disturbing piece of info). I am making fun of you. By my naming him Nikita, that is a dig on your leftist ideals if you are too thick to have noticed. It really has nothing to do with him. Why would you even mention him and some crazy lunatic ideas of parenting methods if you did not think those that did not like you would ever use it against you as an example of your strange upside down thinking?

Bottom line... don't use your son as a way to exemplify your own insanity. You brought it on yourself. I'll try not to mention him in any future posts. He has enough problems being born into the Lefterson family. After all I am sure he is attending some People's Republic of Taxachusetts diversity preschool. Poor kid....

As far as being a tough guy goes... I don't know. I was never a bully when I was young but I never took any shit from anyone. Did I like to fight? When I felt I was in the right... Yeah I did. Does violence solve problems? You're damn right... sure as shit it does. In the right situations. But that was a long time ago. I'm older and mellow now. The world has changed. Besides... Even I could get locked up for hitting someone now (provable self defense aside and providing there are no cameras or witnesses).

As far as holes in my life.... Yeah I have a hole in my life. Unlike you, my hole is very familiar with the word "douche". Every hole I have ever had in my life was very familiar with it. Maybe in your life it is some kind of a liberal thing. Between yeast and the little friend every month and what not... I don't know how you do it. If being married means no more douche or bush trimming then I will say right now... it's not for me. Oh.. and by the way... I never wanted kids. No little Nikita's for me.

Besides a French looking senator... do you liberals up there also have French hygiene routines?

My life is fine. I am very happy, but thanks for your concern. I have a very large loving family. It seems almost too large at times. As a matter of fact two of them are up in your neck of the woods starting school right now. You wouldn't mind if they came over for dinner one night would you? (No pun or threat intended. College kids need home cooked meals sometimes)

Maybe I should have warned them about the douche aversion of MA liberal women!....They will figure it out for themselves... Next month!
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 07:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

You miss the point Sean. I am not making fun of your son, little Nikita. I actually feel bad for the kid. I never even knew you had a kid until you mentioned your intention to instruct him in the ways of the penis in another thread a while back (That was a disturbing piece of info). I am making fun of you. By my naming him Nikita, that is a dig on your leftist ideals if you are too thick to have noticed. It really has nothing to do with him. Why would you even mention him and some crazy lunatic ideas of parenting methods if you did not think those that did not like you would ever use it against you as an example of your strange upside down thinking?
I know full well what you are trying to accomplish, but because you lack the material necessary for a decent rebuttal, you have to resort to fantasy...as usual. What's so wrong about letting your child now about sex when he or she is in the 7th or 8th grade? Is it more preferable to learn it from the streets of NY? It's not my fault your father never told you about the birds & bees, but instead was instructed upon you by an overly friendly Priest.

Quote:
Bottom line... don't use your son as a way to exemplify your own insanity. You brought it on yourself. I'll try not to mention him in any future posts. He has enough problems being born into the Lefterson family. After all I am sure he is attending some People's Republic of Taxachusetts diversity preschool. Poor kid....
This coming from someone who has no children of his own. Bottom line...keep your mouth shut when commenting about subjects you have no fucking clue about. Yet again, another post about my son. I wonder if this would qualify as an "Amber Alert"?

Quote:
As far as being a tough guy goes... I don't know. I was never a bully when I was young but I never took any shit from anyone. Did I like to fight? When I felt I was in the right... Yeah I did. Does violence solve problems? You're damn right... sure as shit it does. In the right situations. But that was a long time ago. I'm older and mellow now. The world has changed. Besides... Even I could get locked up for hitting someone now (provable self defense aside and providing there are no cameras or witnesses).
More bragging I see. I really could give two shits about your made-up life experiences. I'm conviced more than ever now you never fought a fair fight in your life. All this anger and violence just because you have a small penis?

Quote:
As far as holes in my life.... Yeah I have a hole in my life. Unlike you, my hole is very familiar with the word "douche". Every hole I have ever had in my life was very familiar with it. Maybe in your life it is some kind of a liberal thing. Between yeast and the little friend every month and what not... I don't know how you do it.
All this from my mispelling the word "douche" in a couple of my posts? I never knew you were such a connoisseur of vinegar and water. You seem such the authority on the subject, is this how you keep yourself so "fresh"? I'm sorry, but I don't read the boxes of my wifes feminine products, thanks for setting me straight NY Massengill.

Quote:
If being married means no more douche or bush trimming then I will say right now... it's not for me. Oh.. and by the way... I never wanted kids. No little Nikita's for me.
Why not just come out of the closet and admit your gay?

Quote:
I have a very large loving family. It seems almost too large at times. As a matter of fact two of them are up in your neck of the woods starting school right now. You wouldn't mind if they came over for dinner one night would you? (No pun or threat intended. College kids need home cooked meals sometimes)
Will they be attending a "People's Republic of Taxachusetts" diversity school, or are they coming up here because Massachusetts is considering legalizing gay marrage? The fruit doesn't far from the tree does it?
Posted by: babyX

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 08:42 AM

Jesus Murphy, you two should just get it on and be done with it.
Posted by: Trihead

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 08:55 AM

[Spit]

Now that is funny
Posted by: GrayHam

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 08:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by babyX:
Jesus Murphy
Irish Catholic, right?
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by babyX:

Jesus Murphy, you two should just get it on and be done with it.
Sorry you have to witness this ugliness Baby...

You are much too lovely a woman to be exposed to this brutality.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 12:43 PM

Damn Sean....

You really have a fixation on the gay, penis and priest thing.

Can't you be a little more original in your insults?

As far as the kids in college... They went up to Taxachusetts on scholarships. Believe me they are well aware of the antics up there. Believe it or not, as freshman they do have to take a course that fills a diversity requirement (how fucked up is that?). Can they still come over for dinner with you Leftersons ?

Keep the insult posts shorter. Yours especially are getting too long.... and try to come up with some new material...
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Damn Sean....

You really have a fixation on the gay, penis and priest thing.
The only fixation here is your obsession with feminine hygiene products and my son.

Quote:
Can't you be a little more original in your insults?
H-e-l-l-o, is there anyone home? Do you even remember what you write anymore? Your shit got old 10 responses ago. You can't even make it through a post without a reference to "Leftist"!

Quote:
As far as the kids in college... They went up to Taxachusetts on scholarships.
Though I don't believe the part about the scholarships, I can't say I blame them for wanting to attend a university up here The schools here are much better than what you have in NY.

Quote:
Keep the insult posts shorter. Yours especially are getting too long.... and try to come up with some new material...
That's a laugh, this coming from someone with all the originality of a 2 x 4. I've pretty much limited my responses to your tabloid journalism to one liners if you haven't noticed. Would it help if I used smaller words?
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

Your shit got old 10 responses ago. You can't even make it through a post without a reference to "Leftist"!
This one I will give you. It is actually less than 10 posts considering the overwhelming majority of my posts are in response to the sickeningly high amount of "lefty" bullshit posted on this board. I'm surprised the Xterra does not come with a lifetime membership in The Socialist International and a subscription to "The Nation".

Let's face it... lefties really hate being reminded they ARE lefties. I will definitely continue to use it. It's all part of the fun of this board... wouldn't you agree?

Besides, I wasn't talking about political insults. All your other insults are getting old. In one post you call me your favorite insult... a homophobe, and in the next you are calling me a homo. I might use "lefty" often but at least I come up with new material. Try to be more original. Our insult threads are getting boring.

Quote:
Though I don't believe the part about the scholarships, I can't say I blame them for wanting to attend a university up here The schools here are much better than what you have in NY.
Whether you believe it or not, it's the truth. The scholarships weren't full but they got some grants and other stuff. Why is it so hard to believe? Probably because they are white. It is shocking that schools in MA still have money for white students. This would make for good conversation when they come over for dinner.
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 05:57 PM

[Spit] [Crybaby] [Spit] [Argue]
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 07:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

This one I will give you. It is actually less than 10 posts considering the overwhelming majority of my posts are in response to the sickeningly high amount of "lefty" bullshit posted on this board. I'm surprised the Xterra does not come with a lifetime membership in The Socialist International and a subscription to "The Nation".
I'm not trying to start anything here, but as a visitor to this board for almost 2 yrs now (thanks for reminding me, time flys when your having fun), I just don't see a whole lot of this "Leftist" rhetoric that your're mentioning. If anything, I believe the moderates and right-wingers far out number the liberals here on XOC.

Really, I don't mind if you call me a "Lefty" because I just don't think I am one (more moderate if anything). As a registered Independent, I voted for Weld and Romney for Governor (never voted for Ted), I'm for the death penalty and full prison terms, I'm a firm believer in the MCAS testing program and "English Immersion" , I don't trust unions (it was a good concept on paper, but then the Mafia got their hands on it), and I was all for welfare reform.

I will give you the fact that I am a firm believer in gun CONTROL (I never stated anything about banning all firearms), and I don't feel that "Big Business" should have complete freedom (I think it already dictates too much of this countries policies).

Quote:
Our insult threads are getting boring.
I totally agree. I have heard though that our "tit-for-tat" sessions get a high number of viewers. I wouldn't mind having an intelligent debate with you someday, but it just pisses me off to no end when you call me an anti-Semite or when you make fun of my wife and kid.

Quote:
The scholarships weren't full but they got some grants and other stuff. Why is it so hard to believe? Probably because they are white. It is shocking that schools in MA still have money for white students.
I'm sure it's not because their white, affirmative action in this State is fighting a losing battle. In these day's of State cutbacks and all, I'm suprised that anybody gets grants or scholarships anymore. I myself couldn't afford the bill at a university, but I was lucky enough to find jobs that had tuition reimburshment. The company I work at now just about paid for my BS at Boston University.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 08:23 PM

Sorry to stray out of subject, but are we gonna give those pilots guns ?
Or should we just keep those two away from getting anything that might be used as a projectile or have a sharp edge ?

Wouldn't that make the world a better place right there ?

The Dob

( Oh, by the way, guns are dangerous ! )
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 09:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DobermanN:

Sorry to stray out of subject, but are we gonna give those pilots guns ? Or should we just keep those two away from getting anything that might be used as a projectile or have a sharp edge ?

Wouldn't that make the world a better place right there ?
( Oh, by the way, guns are dangerous ! )
The government is dragging their feet on the issue. An example of the Executive Branch of the government not implementing a Legislative mandate. Shit like this happens both ways. We won't even get into the Judicial branch.

By the way.... Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 04/09/03 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:

If anything, I believe the moderates and right-wingers far out number the liberals here on XOC.
You can't be serious. That is without a doubt not true. I can see how you don't see it because you think along the same terms. (By the way.... the post directly under your last one... Is he one of yours?)

Quote:
I don't trust unions (it was a good concept on paper, but then the Mafia got their hands on it)
The Mafia is one of the lesser problems of unions. They do not have a presence in most of them. Only those in certain sectors. Some of the worst unions are public service unions and the teachers unions.

Quote:
I will give you the fact that I am a firm believer in gun CONTROL. (I never stated anything about banning all firearms), and I don't feel that "Big Business" should have complete freedom (I think it already dictates too much of this countries policies).
We differ on gun control vastly. The problem has never been firearms or any weapons for that matter. The problem has always been the PEOPLE involved. I don't believe they should be sold on street corners like hot dogs. But it is wrong for any government to deny law abiding citizens of the right to own one. Here in NY an honest guy must apply, pay the fees, and wait upwards of 6 months. Then there is no guarantee he will be allowed the permit for the firearm. He also will never get his fee back if rejected. This is mainly for longarms. Handguns are almost universally forbidden in NY and only allowed under the strictest of circumstances. Yet criminals buy them on the streets illegally with impunity. When police try to crack down on illegal handguns they are ostracized as being racist and heavy handed. The cops can't win on this issue. We even have laws that mandate a minimun 1 year prison term for an illegal handgun. They are only selectively enforced according to the PC values of the district attorneys. What good is that? Your not going to like this, but it is the liberals that have totally fucked up the system. I was a part of it and saw first hand.

Quote:
I have heard though that our "tit-for-tat" sessions get a high number of viewers. I wouldn't mind having an intelligent debate with you someday
That's interesting. Almost like TV ratings. Maybe we should make it a regular thing. We've had rational debates before. Just don't be so touchy about being called a "lefty" on some of your positions. I'm called right winger and all sorts of shit. I never would have lasted here this long if I let every single slur directed at my politics get to me.

I guess I created a long post......
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 05/09/03 01:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
By the way.... Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous.
I disagree. Guns are dangerous just like chainsaws are dangerous and circular saws are dangerous. It just a matter of knowing how to handle them properly.

(yeah yeah, I'm talking about a different context)

And yes, people are dangerous, too.
Posted by: Andre the Giant

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 05/09/03 06:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by babyX:
Jesus Murphy, you two should just get it on and be done with it.
They should just have sex and get it over with... You know they want each other.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 05/09/03 01:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]By the way.... Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous.
I disagree. Guns are dangerous just like chainsaws are dangerous and circular saws are dangerous. It just a matter of knowing how to handle them properly.

(yeah yeah, I'm talking about a different context)

And yes, people are dangerous, too.[/b]
A ridiculous argument Moby.

What else... Cars are dangerous, hammers are dangerous, steak knives are dangerous.

By your logic everything would be dangerous.

Inanimate objects are not dangerous until handled by an idiot person.

It is people that are dangerous. All these items mentioned require personal responsibilty. Every tool does and a gun is just a tool.
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 05/09/03 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]By the way.... Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous.
I disagree. Guns are dangerous just like chainsaws are dangerous and circular saws are dangerous. It just a matter of knowing how to handle them properly.

(yeah yeah, I'm talking about a different context)

And yes, people are dangerous, too.[/b]
A ridiculous argument Moby.

What else... Cars are dangerous, hammers are dangerous, steak knives are dangerous.

By your logic everything would be dangerous.

Inanimate objects are not dangerous until handled by an idiot person.

It is people that are dangerous. All these items mentioned require personal responsibilty. Every tool does and a gun is just a tool.[/b]
That's why I said: "It just a matter of knowing how to handle them properly."

A chainsaw is inherently more dangerous than a handsaw. Scrape a handsaw against your arm. OK, you might break skin. Now do it with a chainsaw. You're going to do more than break skin.
Posted by: Sean

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 06/09/03 05:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

A ridiculous argument Moby.

What else... Cars are dangerous, hammers are dangerous, steak knives are dangerous.

By your logic everything would be dangerous.

Inanimate objects are not dangerous until handled by an idiot person.
Car's, hammers, and steak knives can't kill you from 100 yards away.

Quote:
Every tool does and a gun is just a tool.
You can't build a deck with a gun, nor will they cut your T bone steak very well. The only purpose a firearm has besides as a deterent, is to kill/mame or destroy something. You can't catagorize a gun as a simple "Tool".
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 07/09/03 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sean:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

[b]A ridiculous argument Moby.

What else... Cars are dangerous, hammers are dangerous, steak knives are dangerous.

By your logic everything would be dangerous.

Inanimate objects are not dangerous until handled by an idiot person.
Car's, hammers, and steak knives can't kill you from 100 yards away.

Quote:
Every tool does and a gun is just a tool.
You can't build a deck with a gun, nor will they cut your T bone steak very well. The only purpose a firearm has besides as a deterent, is to kill/mame or destroy something. You can't catagorize a gun as a simple "Tool".[/b]
I can.... I have it on my tool belt everyday at work. While yes a gun can kill you from further away in most instances I know many a people who are skilled with knives and such. A gun is a tool I use for work. Others use it as a tool to hunt.

Shitheads use guns to kill people however it is still their tool. If we get rid of guns shitheads will just use knives.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 07/09/03 07:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

A ridiculous argument Moby.

What else... Cars are dangerous, hammers are dangerous, steak knives are dangerous.

By your logic everything would be dangerous.
Why do you think there's safety bar on roller-coasters ?
Because their not safe !

Safety switch on your gun ? NOT SAFE !
Safety cover on pills bottle ? Not safe.
Safety guard on circular saw ? Not safe !!

Guns are just more dangerous than other stuff and not used for anything else than shooting living creature. Big game or human alike.

And you know that half the population is more stupid than the other half. I don't care which
half you belong to, but sure as hell wouldn't want to be too close to someone from the stupid half while he's handling his gun that he just bought because it says in the constitution that he should have one to defend himself against any invasion from the British...

The Dob
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 06:51 AM

Quote:
Guns are just more dangerous than other stuff and not used for anything else than shooting living creature. Big game or human alike.
So people who only target shoot with guns what about them? Guns can be used for a lot of things not just shooting a living being. A gun properly handled is no more dangerous than a circular saw or chain saw. In fact a mishandled chainsaw is more dangerous than a properly handled handgun.

Your other arguements are fruitless and prove nothing. BTW my gun nor any other glocks have a safety. Most safety devices or warnings nowadawys are to prevent lawsuits from stupid people who make anything dangerous.
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hartwig:
In fact a mishandled chainsaw is more dangerous than a properly handled handgun.
Of course. And a mishandled gun is more dangerous than a properly handled chainsaw. [Wave]

Isn't that like comparing Extra Strength Excedrin to regular strength aspirin? laugh

Anyway...I stand by my original comment...

Guns are dangerous in the same manner as chainsaws and circular saws. It's simply knowing how to handle them properly.

Amazing how an innocuous statement like that can bring out some banter.
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 09:23 AM

Actually I am agreeing with you Moby. Guns are just as dangerous as other items when used incorrectly. But that is the key they have to be used. Just sitting there a gun is no more dangerous than a chainsaw sitting next to it.
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hartwig:
Actually I am agreeing with you Moby. Guns are just as dangerous as other items when used incorrectly. But that is the key they have to be used. Just sitting there a gun is no more dangerous than a chainsaw sitting next to it.
Just sitting there a gun is no more dangerous than a nerf softball.
Posted by: Paul H

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 01:03 PM

Very true
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 04:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hartwig:
[b]Actually I am agreeing with you Moby. Guns are just as dangerous as other items when used incorrectly. But that is the key they have to be used. Just sitting there a gun is no more dangerous than a chainsaw sitting next to it.
Just sitting there a gun is no more dangerous than a nerf softball.[/b]
Just sitting there a gun is less dangerous. A slight gust of wind, the ball rolls off the table. Little 9 month old Johnny grabs it, puts it in his mouth. No more Johnny. All the while, the gun is still sitting there on the table. laugh
Posted by: MBFlyerfan

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 06:42 PM

Quote:
Little 9 month old Johnny grabs it, puts it in his mouth. No more Johnny.
Well then it wouldnt be just sitting there then would it?
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 07:52 PM

Well... If little 9 month old Johnny was put anywhere in a room where he could put anything in his mouth that could possibly lead to him harming himself ... isn't this the responsibility of his parents? That's providing little Johnny was even in the care of his parents (another responsibility that too many people are increasingly pushing off onto others).

Gun arguments on XOC are totally useless.
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Gun arguments on XOC are totally useless.
Agreed. I wasn't really trying to start any argument over it.

I'm not pro-gun, but I'm not anti-gun either. I'd never own one, but I think if someone wants to own one, that's their right (which, by the way, was a view I didn't have until discussions on this board).
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

Agreed. I wasn't really trying to start any argument over it.

I'm not pro-gun, but I'm not anti-gun either. I'd never own one, but I think if someone wants to own one, that's their right (which, by the way, was a view I didn't have until discussions on this board).
You serious? Prior to XOC, you never thought it was a right as an American citizen to own a gun?

I tell you what.... You live near DC. You need one. Maybe I will get you one for Christmas....
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

Agreed. I wasn't really trying to start any argument over it.

I'm not pro-gun, but I'm not anti-gun either. I'd never own one, but I think if someone wants to own one, that's their right (which, by the way, was a view I didn't have until discussions on this board).
You serious? Prior to XOC, you never thought it was a right as an American citizen to own a gun?

I tell you what.... You live near DC. You need one. Maybe I will get you one for Christmas....
I guess I should clarify that. I didn't see any reason people would need some of the types of guns available (basically any kind of assault weapon). I still don't see any reason to need them, but if you want them, have at it. And that if guns were to be banned, I wouldn't have any problems with it. Never thought anyone didn't have a *right* to own one. They do.

If that makes any sense. Mostly ambivalence, I suppose.

DC isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. I've been down in the worst areas of town after dark (SE, 9th Ward, two blocks from projects that had been boarded up), on my own, with a $20,000 camera on the sidewalk. No problems whatsoever, and I never felt like I was in any danger.
Posted by: NY Madman

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 08/09/03 11:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

I guess I should clarify that. I didn't see any reason people would need some of the types of guns available (basically any kind of assault weapon). I still don't see any reason to need them, but if you want them, have at it. And that if guns were to be banned, I wouldn't have any problems with it. Never thought anyone didn't have a *right* to own one. They do.
Hmmmm... "Assault weapon"... I can't help but think this sounds very "Clintonian". Personally I don't call them "assault weapons. They are "automatic rifles". The term "assault weapon" seems to be part of the liberal vernacular now, so I am not surprised you think of them in these terms. I bet you even think an AR-15 is an "assault weapon". It is not.

The most dangerous automatic weapons on the street are sub-machine guns such as Tec-9's, Mac 11's ... things like that. An automatic rifle is difficult to conceal. A sub-machine gun is not. You trade accuracy for concealment... but then again you can spray a crowd easily before the weapon jams. Liberals never seem to target these popular "ghetto" weapons in their anti-gun tirades. Is it because they are cheap? Is it because the ammo is cheap? Is it because they are not very effective in a defensive posture? Could it be because they are not the preferred weapon of the honest law abiding citizen?

Your so-called "assault weapons" are illegal. The totalitarian leftists in government don't want the public to have access to any weapons that could qualify as effective against the weapons they have.

Let's face it. Anti-gun people only want to disarm honest law adiding citizens. There is NEVER, EVER a plan to remove guns from the "ghetto" and criminal element. Only plans to remove weapons from the general population. As I said before... anytime the police step up to the plate and try to do anything about it... the same anti-gun lefties scream racism against the police.... and they scream so loud the police always back off.

You disappoint me Moby. You have no problem with guns being banned.... if they were. What other constitutional rights would you feel comfortable surrendering?

It's nice and easy to be a sheep isn't it?

Does that mean you don't want a gun for Christmas? I think you have been lucky working with your $20,000 equipment in the middle of a ghetto. Luck ALWAYS runs out.
Posted by: Mobycat

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 09/09/03 06:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Hmmmm... "Assault weapon"... I can't help but think this sounds very "Clintonian". Personally I don't call them "assault weapons. They are "automatic rifles". The term "assault weapon" seems to be part of the liberal vernacular now, so I am not surprised you think of them in these terms. I bet you even think an AR-15 is an "assault weapon". It is not.
Semantics, semantics. When I say "assault" I basically mean something that has the ability to be automatic, or has some sort of military equivalent. If you want to use "automatic" then fine, automatic.

Quote:
You disappoint me Moby. You have no problem with guns being banned.... if they were. What other constitutional rights would you feel comfortable surrendering?
Apparently I failed in my explanation again. I USED to feel that if they were banned I'd have no problems with it. Not that IF they were now.

Quote:
It's nice and easy to be a sheep isn't it?
I'm just glad I'm not a ditto-head...oh wait...those are sheep, too. :p

Quote:
Does that mean you don't want a gun for Christmas? I think you have been lucky working with your $20,000 equipment in the middle of a ghetto. Luck ALWAYS runs out.
Like I said, I have absolutely no use for a gun. Don't want one, don't need one. If you feel safer with one, so be it. No skin of my back.
Posted by: Bucweet X

Re: Pilots With Guns: Good Idea, or Not? - 09/09/03 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hartwig:
...BTW my gun nor any other glocks have a safety.
I "get" the point you were trying to make, but I'm feeling left out of the conversation and felt the need to post jack... [Wave]

Glocks : Trigger Safety

A mechanical trigger safety is incorporated into the trigger in the form of a lever. In the untouched state the trigger safety blocks the trigger from being moved backward. If the weapon is dropped or if the trigger is subjected to an off-center, lateral pressure, it is still impossible for the gun to fire.


This safety can only be released by the trigger being pulled by the trigger finger, and is automatically re-engaged after the trigger is released.