Axle...

Care to explain these ?

Damn... thats gonna be a little more than buff and wax !!!

Hope everyone is OK !!!

Good god that looks painful.

WHOA, Whos is this & how did it get turned over?

The more I look at the pics the more confused I am.

Come on axle lets hear a good story. Somethin like someone jacked your truck and thats where you found it. Did you honestly think you could climb that hill? Judgin by the pic (doesnt always tell the true story) that apears to be a solid 60-70 degrees??

Looks to me like a loss of control on ice resulting in a trip into the side of the hill. Doesn't look like there's a trail there or anything; just a very steep and snow covered hill alongside a road. Good news is it looks to have gone over easy! Really not much damage at all.

Now I can't find the thread (Hill Climbing one?), but he said he was catching up w/ the rest of the group, came around a corner and had to either go one of three places

1. Into the trucks he was with,
2. Over a cliff, or
3. into the ditch to slow himself down.

Number 3 was enough to do the honors. Bummer.

Someone else on the run posted it over a week ago and then deleted it.He posted the link to all the photos.

But yeah, he stopped for a piss break and then was catching up when he rounded the corner and everyone was stopped. 3 choices, left and down the mountain, straight and hit everyone, or right into the ditch and try to stop. If I remember, he said the tires bit on the hill and he couldn't turn back left and it rolled. This is what was posted IIRC.

Originally posted by Axle: I'm glad no one was hurt and the Xterra wasn't too beat up after getting it uprighted. What did the wifey have to say about her truck?

I'd be interested in how you got it rubber side down again. Did someone have a winch in the group?

Yep, Snoopy found it. Since I was the only one in the group with a winch we had to wait a few minutes for someone else to come down the trail. The Jeep in the second pic had a winch and they were kind enough to help us out. Had to put a strap around a tree on the backside of the Jeep to keep it from skidding along the road.

Axle

Here's a few more pics to help with the story. You can see the corner now and the drop off on the other side of the road as well as the rest of the X's that were stopped in the road.

Axle

I won't even bother to comment. :rolleyes:

You just did! Oh yeah; I agree!

Too late, you already did.

Hey, shit happens. What would you have done? Use your powers of divine intervention to miraculously stop the truck?

Axle

I'll come right out and say it (and that doesn't mean I've never made judgement errors while driving). In order of importance:

1) You were driving too fast for the conditions.

2) Your group shouldn't have stopped in a corner like that. That's just asking for it.

3) Someone in your group should have radio'd you to tell you they were stopping; especially since they stopped in a reduced visibility area AND on a slippery surface.

Like I said, I've made mistakes too and I'm sure even XOC has...nobody's perfect. Don't take it personally, just learn from it. Glad nobody was hurt.

That's 3 times you have fucked up your truck driving too fast. I doubt you will ever learn how to drive safely. You are truly embarassing.

If that was our club, I would have left you there.

Shit happens once, not 3 times, all of which were preventable with just a tiny amount of common sense. I can guarantee you something that stupid would never happen to me or any member of our club.

3 times?? Name them.

If you're referring to the crossmember then that wasn't speed that was a new bumper weighing the front end down enough to catch a rock that I'd driven over dozens of times before.

If the second one is the bumper getting bent then that wasn't speed either. 4LO locked in 1 crawling around a corner is speeding?

And I was only doing about 10 when this one happened. Downhill on ice + big heavy truck = no quick stopping.

That just goes to show what a great guy you are. :rolleyes:

That would be the 3.

You said you were doing 60 when you hit that rock, and from the looks of the destroyed cross-member, I would agree.

I recall you saying you went around the corner too fast when you fucked up the bumper too.

If you really were going 10 MPH on hard packed snow (not ice, go look at the pictures), once can only wonder why you couldn't stop in 200 feet (go look at the long shot picture).

You suck at driving, I've seen it first hand.

From the original post. You have a pretty shitty memory.

It's from listening to people like you all day.

At least I can drive.

"Ian's being an unconscionable ballbuster."

"I could have tipped my truck a million times. Then I wouldn't owe dick.."

"What am I, a schmuck on wheels?"

OMFG !!!! WTF !!1!!!

NY Madman posted outside the Club House, Tailgate or ALR !!!1! 1!!

Same exact thing happened to my school bus in 9th grade.

going around a blind corner too fast (35) on wet leaf covered pavement, another bus and line of cars were stopped at the bottom of the hill. she braked hard, swung the rear end across the street, hit the curb, changing the forward direction to straight up a steep embankment. when the bus got too tilted it rolled on it's side. you think it's jarring to tip in an Xterra. Try doing it from one side of a school bus to the other sans seatbelt. ouch.

Anyway... enough of who's fault was it... How's the truck, Axle? Is it gonna be a pretty expensive fix? It's kinda hard to tell from the first pic due to all the shadows... Glad everyone's ok, though... it could have been a lot worse...

Nope, the dent's I'm not worried about. A new mirror is $50-60 online. I'll take it to a body shop and have them pull the dent out where the mirror pinched off the window track keeping me from rolling down my window and that'll be that. So probably around $150 to get it back to working order.

Axle

You don't leave people behind douche bag. Not even in jest.

Ian wouldn't leave anyone behind. I have always wondered why Axle gets the shit storm when he posts a mishap. I went down Odessa Canyon with my steprails on and didn't hear shit. I think seeing the uh ohs keeps me coming here as much as the good stuff. I've met both of you guys and seem to have no problem getting along with either one of you. Did somebody rat Axle out about pissing in the hot tub at GOX right before you got in?

Whenever I see a sideways or upside down truck I always think about what a great opportunity it would be (under different circumstances) to work on the underside.... I mean, you can see EVERYTHING, there's plenty of light - no sliding around trying to get to bolts...

what a great chance to put on some armor or install a locker!

We need to have hydraulic tables like they do for cow surgeries.... you walk the sucker up to the sideways table, strap 'em in, hit the button, and the table-with-cow-attached just pivots over until you have the cow on its side for easy access.

Imagine what the people in the white and silver X's (rear of the stopped group) were thinking when they saw it happening.

I'm sure they appreciate that Axle sacrificed his truck instead of hitting them. Kudos for that at the least...

Kudos indeed!


If I remember correctly (from reading a previous post) the Silver Xterra saw Axle coming and moved to the side of the White Xterra to give him more room. Once on the side of the white Xterra, the Silver one began to slide sideways and came within ONE INCH of smacking into the side of the white Xterra.

I think they had to be strapped out by the Jeepers to prevent another accident.

Ice is scary.

the mirror is about 150, when i broke mine nissan don't just sell the housing you have to buy the whole dam thing, it suck for me cuz a rock hit me on the freeway and just killed my mirror. Axle i give you props for what you did. Where did you find the mirro for 50 to 60 dollars i tried to find it online and had no luck, that was 1 year ago tho.

Anyways, glad everyone is ok.
Axle if i know you are good with mechanical stuff, but that door pannel is a pain to take out, took me a while to figure it out. if i remember right there are altease 4 screws to remove, then 3 screws for the mirror, and you have to pull pretty hard upward to get the pannel off.

i must say the X held up pretty good no broken glass or anything. a new front fender and you are good to go.

www.car-part.com

Guess those "short buses" are pretty unstable!

Since this whole thread pretty much evolved into a pissing contest, I will just say that I am glad that no body got hurt, and that Axle's Xterra will be back on the road soon. Ice is bad shit. Really, no one should have been out driving in that mess. Oh, one more thing: General Grabbers tires suck major ass. I should have ditched the '02's tires as soon as I rolled off the lot. Had some major shit happen around here last week, rain, then ice, then rain, and a bunch of fucking mud. Try getting to work at about 3 mph in slick ass red-dirt mud found here in central Alabama.

My office is undergoing some work around the facilities, and there are two ways to get in. One, is backed up 10 minutes. The other is an unpaved, nasty, pigtrail that only the brave and trucks generally access. So, I take it. Those tires never stuck, but they slid all over the place. I doubt 4wd would have helped one bit.

Anyway, let's all take care in our winter driving fun.

LOL, OK then... I will.(if only because of the irony of ian getting blasted for leaving people behind)

Thats 2 for SCCX, you guys goin for a 3rd?

Seriously, SCCX needs a newbie seminar on how to drive, so you all can stop rolling your trucks when you drive way faster than conditions or common sense allows.

yeah Chris, i saw that... after i posted to this thread, guess the respect goes both ways.

I have lightened up...

its no secret that i have had my issues with SCCX in the past... but that was two years ago... or so most of you thought.

to be honest It feels really good to know that after 2 years of helping keep skeletons in the closet and biting my tongue in order to try and keep the peace... I don't have to anymore.

I'm not gonna just let loose on the people who deserve it, that wouldn't be fair. But when things like axle blasting Ian for his comment come up... Oh do I have stories

BTW, I'm not burning any bridges that actually existed since the last WestX anyway(and some were gone before that)

WHO asked you to remove them? I would like to know you can PM me. I believe that that call should have been made by me or Allen.
BTW you can post them all again if you like.

RENEE

Respnse to each comment...
1. No he wasn't
2. The leader ran into a tree. No way that he could keep going.
3. JJ was grabbing her radio as it happened.

It would be truly sad if one day you had something bad happen and everyone left you behind and you were hurt and noone cared.

Why does it matter so much to you what happens to MY truck? Do you not have anything better to do?

without the .

You know what happened in Doran. I had to leave to take my wife to work. Brian said that he would lead the rest of them out but ended up taking off also. I found out at about 11:00 that night. It would have been almost 1:00 in the morning by the time I got to them if I went back. I was there the next morning though to go and get everybody out but Logan had already gone up and gotten them, remember I wasn't staying at camp. If my wife hadn't of had to be at work I would have been out there all night with them also.

By the way, what the fuck are you still doing here? Shouldn't you be over at JU or something. :rolleyes:

I don't know why the fuck you people are all up in arms about this. It's my truck that I've wheeled and screwed up a couple of times. I haven't hurt anybody else during any of the times I bent or broke something and I paid to have everything fixed myself. It's called a learning experience. I guess unlike some people here I wasn't born knowing the outcome of every possible situation.

Axle

And Logan was going how fast when his rolled????
In case you forgot it was sitting still.

Oh and there have been three rolls in SCCX but one of them won't say anything because they knew that this shitstorm from the almighty dogooders here wouldn't be worth it. That's why it took almost two weeks for me to post any pictures of this also because I was leary of it. I know that Ian has a bug up his ass about me for some reason and I was pretty much expecting this sort of reaction. I guess that I will use this a learning experience and not post up anything that may cause contoversy again.

Axle

Why doesn't that surprise me ?

The bug up my ass is all you people destroying your trucks. Learn to drive, or find someone who can teach you how.

I don't understand why it bothers you as long as they don't destroy the environment or other people's property. I could understand you bitching about the quart of oil on the ground. You do single Axle out when he does these things. You still haven't bitched me out for driving down Odessa with steprails still on. I almost flipped my truck on a muddy hill when I first got it. All I heard was that the hill wasn't as steep as I imagined it to be. I even floated it in a mudhole just to use the winch. I posted here about all of those things and was never called an idiot. All of those were stupid things to do in retrospect, but they all seemed like good ideas at the time. I think you are a little rough on Axle sometimes. It's not because I got in bed with him while I was naked at GOX is it?
You're both good guys, too bad you don't get along.

By the way, I nominated you for an episode of "Monster Garage" tonight. I think you'd be an interesting team member on the show. I think everyone here should e-mail a nomination in as well. Don't tell me you wouldn't like a big pile of free tools.

As far as Toderick is concerned, I think you blow the WestX thing out of proportion. I think it's because you felt betrayed when people you picked to lead didn't do what you felt they should have. I wasn't there that night, but if I had been, I would have gone out to help them myself when the trail bosses had to leave. I stayed to make sure Logan's truck was running and that he would get home the time he flooded it on the Mojave road. I wasn't running that trip, but you just don't leave people behind. I understood that other people had obligations and couldn't stay, so I stayed. There is no way I would hold that against those people, even if it had been me that was flooded. I don't think Logan holds a grudge against those that left and I don't think those peole at WestX are holding it against Axle. Let it go bud. Friends are too hard to find to dump them over crap like that. Love y'all.

I try to have a sense of humor, but I'm just tired of seeing this stuff. I have wheeled with a lot of people on this board, and I have my secret list of people who have no idea what they are doing. People I don't want to associate with, or drive with because they are a hazard or hindrance to people around them, especially at the large events or runs like those I host every year.

Sadly, it's a very long list, full of people who can't drive over any obstacle without a spotter, people who drive dangerously, people who have no common sense. People who are supposed to be improving their off-road driving skills, but aren't.

I talk to a lot of people off this board too, people who I respect, people who are skilled, people who confirm my thoughts about the people on my list because they have first hand knowledge as well.

This message board is for people to learn about their Xterras, and learn about safe 4 wheeling, but every couple of weeks I see something stupid and preventable like this and it just makes me wonder if it's worth the effort.

I lead all the trail runs for RMXC, and I lead trail runs at GOX and goneMOAB every year and there has never been an incident with any of them (with the exception of Weelit, but he was showing off) because I won't allow it.

I want all the club leaders and the people who are supposed to be showing the new people the ropes to step up and quit fucking around. A 4000 lb truck is not something to be playing with so casually or wrecklessly.

You were stroking yourself when you wrote that, weren't you?

I think you'd best step away from the keyboard and leave the room now before your head gets too big to fit through the door.
:p

I guess I must have made the list. I do things with my Xterra that a lot of people might feel are foolish(especially my wife). I let my nine and eleven year olds drive it on a dry lake bed. They are learning valuable lessons that may keep them from doing something stupid in the future. Just last week my nine year old learned why I tell him not to do a tight circle while moving quickly in a top heavy truck and my eleven year old learned why you shouldn't stomp on the brake unless it's an emrgency and I learned that when you are letting an eleven year old drive, you should wear your seatbelt no matter where you are and how short a time she will be driving. I've let them do this since my son was seven. I am always careful to make sure that no matter what happens, I won't hurt others or damage others' property or the environment. I can live with the damage I do to my truck, but I could never live with the damage I might do to others if I weren't safe about it. I've been with Axle on several trail runs and he always seems sane and safety concious. He has had bad luck and I don't doubt that he was driving in a sedate, sane manner when this latest mishap happened. I think he did the stand up thing when he put his truck in a ditch, rather than damage others. I think that given the same situation, many others would have just plowed their big steel bumper into the soft plastic ass of the people in front of them. That's probably what I would have done. I think Axle is a better offroad driver than I am. He walked up the easy side of the wall in one attempt during GOX. I had to try a few times to get the right line to clear my bumper. He's always the first one to help others when they're in a tight spot. I think it's OK to rag on him, but I don't know why he gets special attention. I never saw him cut down a tree(sorry Brent, but at least you know why Ian rags you). I can only guess that it's his non-apologetic, "I did what I thought was right" attitude. I prefer that to blaming his mishaps on the incompetence of others(not saying that you do that). I think the two of you just need to spend more time together.

Anybody second my "Monster Garage" nomination yet?

you know at first when i read Ian's posts i figured he was just being a prick like usual. Now that he has fully explained himself i think he's right. People need to step up and learn to drive before someone dies.

Of all the typos...

I am curious as to how the leader ran into a tree. Not judging or anything like that. Just curious. Was that also because of the ice?

We wanna see the list!!!

Oh wait never mind I am probably on it. I freely admit I am kind of a dumbass driver.

So axle what does it look like now. Are you gonna leave the scars on it?

can't we all just get along

No f'ing way! I had to go to word and do a spell check. It just doesn't look right like that! I'm usually pretty good at spotting stuff like that, but I never would have gotten that one.

No, you're on the other list.

You're on a different list.

Fine. Ignore what I have to say. Do what you want. Drive how you want. Learn nothing.

I do post on JU, but visit here periodicly to see whats going on... i post when i feel compelled...

which brings us to the second part...
I only posted because of the irony of you and now renee bitching about ian saying he would have left you behind... when it was actually YOU TWO that left others.

that and the irony that the two SCCX xterras that have rolled have been the two people whop have no regard for their vehicles, saftey, or the well being of those around them... it has been proven time and again.

you post does make me wonder.... So why did the leader hit a tree? that trail looks wide enough, was he going too fast also?

a lie concocted to save face when ian posted the pics... and you know it.

Cats out of the bag now. no more lies.

he was going 45 - 50 and hit a bump, caught air and landed too far to the right... he hit the brakes and stopped with two wheels barely on the trail.... after some time and a failed rescue his truck rolled.

That is definately part of it... Honestly i wa shurt that he would do something so stupid... tell peopel in stock xterra's that a 4 - 4.5 rated trail that normally takes 6-8 hours could be ran in 2... it was foolish irresponsible and dangerous.

Honestly i sort of understand why axle left... i think he was wrong, if his wife had to work, she should not have been with him... a leader doesn't leave.

BUT, Xtoolbox is the one i was really pissed at... cause not only did he leave people, he heard them say they were stuck and for him to wait over his FRS... and just drove on, later claiming he didn't hear it...

Wow. Logan had me fooled for a long time.

Am I on your list Ian? I know there is at least one ex PNWX member on it. THere have been a few on the official PNWX list for sure.

your original caption of "2wd + speed <> 4x4" freaked him out, and a elaborate story was concocted to try and make it not look so reckless and to also take the "2wd" out of the equation... which was i think unfair of you... 2wd had nothing to do with what happened... driving faster than conmditions allowed did

RENEE,

BTW, I am sorry to hear about your truck... I have been there when it was slightly damaged in the past and I know you really do care what happens to it... Its a shame to see ANY Xterra go through that.

Whatever you want to think of me, fine. I'm done arguing with you over it.

Todrick, you weren't doing shit out there anyways so somebody had to. I didn't force anybody to follow me up that trail. And if your such a great offroader why don't you get your pansy little ass in your jeep and come out here and show me how it's done, or are you afraid to scratch it?

Holy Crap!

this thread has really gotten nasty. Alot of dirty laundry is being aired out.

I hope nothing is being said that will be regreted later.

This thread is all about elite off-roading skills...

I don't know about you guys but I off road to enjoy myself. Not to harass or criticize on a message board. Axle made a decision... he lived with it. Why people can't leave him alone, I don't know... it's not like he rammed into someone's truck or another person. He made the choice that only affected him.

As far as I am concerned... this thread seems to be all about who has the BIGGER E-PENIS when it comes to off-roading.

People need to learn how to chill.

Well.... back to the original Oops it fell over part of the topic...

Got an estimate on the damage yet? How did it run after being put shiny side up?

Hey "Shit Happens", mine did just before getting online, and I feel much better now.

no axle... im not afraid to scratch it...
but i don't enjoy laying it on its side...

and "show you how its done"????!!?!

LOL, you just don't get it.

He said e-penis.

to "e-penis"

great line

Come get yur heep dusty in KOFA Jason.

Average size is 6". My truck is still basically stock. Let's do a little math using my current rig... XOC style!

Mod - E-Penis Size
Stock Xterra - 6"
Round Headlights - -2" for not having square headlights
BFG AT/KO's - +2" for tires
Having 32"x10.5" - -1" for not having 32"x11.5"
Steering Stabalizer - +.5"
Calmini Idler Arm Brace - +.5"
Shrockworks Sliders - +2"
Not having them installed yet - -1"

According to my calculations I have a 7" E-Penis. Once I get my lift and upgraded steering I'll be adding a few more inches to it!

Oh yeah, as long as I don't roll my truck I will maintain my E-Penis size. If I roll it or get into an accident then I automatically goto a default 4 incher.

Doesn't matter anyway...

It's all virtual.

hey like it was said before "shit happens." everyone is ok and that is all that matters. and by the way isnt that why we carry insurance??? act like adults, live with your decisions, and move on with your life. i do enjoy watching supposedly mature adults argue over a stupid computer.

No. That's where you, and many others are dead wrong. It's about safe off-roading skills, and a complete lack of them by many people who claim to have them.

I've been forced to watch it for 4 years now, and it's not getting any better.

Well, I fail to see why people feel the need to jump all over Axle. Everyone is entitled to mess up, he didn't kill anyone and he didn't commit a felony.

Maybe you guys need to get your minds on something else...

You're right, let's go back to talking about pointless crap in The Club House...

Well, I for one think Axle did the right thing, seeing as how I was there. It was said before that it was either slam into the back of the X's in front of him, go off the side of the mountain and kill his entire family, or do what he did.

I was second in line. We were not going too fast. The leader hit a downed tree that was halfway in the road. There was no way to avoid it. I did the same thing that Axle tried to do and steered into the ditch to avoid hitting the vehicle in front of me and it worked. As soon as I stopped I reached for my radio (as did everyone in the group) and tried to get the message out that we had stopped in the trail but it was too late. Circumstances were such, that there was nothing that he could do.

As far as people preaching, please step down off of you soap boxes. Everyone has done something foolish or reckless in their lives, so don't try to be all high and mighty.

To Axle,

Only those of us that were there know what really happened. Don't worry what the armchair quarterbacks have to say. You did the only thing that you could.

Jason

you wanna see people do some really stupid stuff?

http://www.highriders.ca/albums/album30/aab.wmv

http://www.highriders.ca/albums/album30/aac.wmv

i am sure you will love there tread lightly skills, and how the kids are just sitting around in the mud while these idiots go through completely out of control...

i dont think that axle did anything bad enough to warrent this huge debate, but than again, i havent met you guys so i dont know how safe/reckless you guys are, but it sounds like he did the right thing to me (by ditching it). everyone makes mistakes, and he did the most he could to rectify the error at the time.

although i also think that everyone could be a little more safe.

Based on the pictures and the explanation, the bottom line is that the tipped-X was simply going to fast around a blind corner in slick conditions.

This isn't worthy of 6 pages of arguments.

Axle fucked up.

See ?
That right there means people were traveling too fast and following too close for conditions. What part of this is so hard for people to grasp ?

Are you people f'ing clueless? The definition of going too fast for conditions means that you are not able to stop in time for what may lie ahead. This takes into consideration road conditions, visibility, and your vehicle's stopping ability. If he was going around a turn the he couldn't see around, and the conditions were less than perfect, he should have been going slower. Its no different then rounding a blind turn on a country highway. You don't fly around it at 70 without considering if there's a broken truck or wildlife on the other side, you slow down to a safe speed for the conditions and proceed with caution. I don't understand why anyone is even bothering to argue this point.

You're missing the whole point here (along with several other people). I'm not talking about one mistake, I'm talking about people who continually make mistakes and exhibit poor driving skills and judgment.

We had someone in our club who showed poor driving skills on the street the day they joined our club, and they were immediately put on probation by the officers. A while later they did something dumb on the trail and they were ejected from our club. The person was incapable of learning proper, safe driving techniques and we didn't want the liability.

So I take back what I said about leaving someone behind, because that person would never be with me, or with my group in the first place.

How the hell does driving through the mud on coyote lake bed constitute unsafe driving? People go out there just to drive through the mud. That is Axle's home turf, so to speak. He led us on a night run out there and knew every square inch of that place.

Also, please do not lecture me on safety. It is what I do for a living.

Jason

The almighty Ian has spoken.

Jason

You're a crossing guard? that's cool. I always wave to the nice, old man who watches the intersection by my house. Keep up the good work!

I consider myself an excellent offroad driver in mud on fairly flat terrain. That's what I learned to drive in. I consider my self a fair neophyte driver on hilly, rocky terrain. I have a lot to learn in that areana. I suck on ice and snow, but am much better than anyone I ever saw do it in Texas. I've never slid an inch on ice or snow, mostly because it scares me to death. I'm flattered to be on the other list, I think. I'm just guessing that the other list is the list of competent off road drivers. It might be the list of drunken table dancers. I still think that overall Axle is a competent and safe driver. He's had some mishaps and I had noticed the mud covered windows in that one picture. That said, I would go off roading with him any day.

The Logan thing caught me completely off guard. I had no idea that was all a lie. I wouldn't lie about a mishap. Others can't learn from your mistakes if you make up the circumstances under which they occur. I have had accidents and will probably have more in the future. It's all a matter of assessing risk and making informed decisions. That doesn't mean we always make the right one, but we will most of the time.

Axle thanks for posting the pictures.

I for one do not see why some people have the need to feel so superior on this board all the time. I feel for your mishap and hope you keep having fun doing what you love to do and don't get to bent on the *ssholes here. Wish we where all perfect like some on here!

think of Laura
laugh dont cry
I know...
she'd want it that way :rolleyes:

So to prove your point you post another picture of him covered in mud with a dented and cracked front bumper. Not a good arguement.

BTW I am not taking sides here I have my own opinion amd will keep it to myself. Just pointing out something.

How did he drive home without being able to see out any windows but the front ? Should have wiped that off with a rag or a stick.



That's like those people who only clear off a tiny porthole on their windshield when it snows.

Why did Chris delete his moronic posts?

Did you come out of the crack high and realize what you had wrote?

I have to agree with Ian on this one. If you couldnt stop in time to avoid it, you were going too fast for road conditions.

Click for fun

hehe

Thats the best post I've seen so far!

Aight... So I've read through the entire thread, reference links and all, and my input would be this... Bottom line... No one got hurt... No one got killed... And the only thing done was damage to Axle's X... I can understand both sides to this... Ian and other members make great points as well as Axle and the people who were actually there... Just add another learning notch to the belt...

But then again, who the fuck would listen to this fool (me) who's only got a 4x2 and doesn't offroad, right?! ... Flame suit on...

Sorry to hear 'bout you're mis-hap Axle... Glad to see no one got hurt except your truck... Tread lightly my friend!!!

- Air B

The real problem here is that it is the kind of irresponsible driving exhibited by SCCX members that give ALL off-roaders a bad image...and in these cases it appears to rightfully earned.

Especially in SoCal it is appearent that four-wheelers are feeling a "pinch" from the government as more and more places are shut down...Dare you ask why?

FWIW: I rolled my 1st 4X4 acting like a jackass in Azusa canyon...I payed the price for that STUPID mistake. Though, I learned the lesson. Where are all being watched

That's the best you've got douche?? A blowup doll at a bachelor party is the best you can come up with???

You're pathetic. Go roll your X, since you think it's ok to do so. Make sure to post pics!!

Give me a break everybody...

-dp

Wow! He had to do some searching on HXOC to find that pic!

How is him sitting with a blow up doll make him a prick.

Is that all you can resort to now since your argument was blown out of the water and lies were brought to the surface about past fuck ups. Seriously that is the mentality of a 3 year old man.

Ian,

I'm sure this is how the real God feels about you and your life (not something to be playing with so casually or recklessly). The point being, God forgives you and you should forgive Axle.

ps. I hope everyone enjoyed the religious analogy

Well this whole thing is never going to resolve itself between the two sides.
I was only trying to stick up for someone who I know to be a be an OK person, and who would help anyone in jam.
Why everyone got so worked up (which is what pissed me off) is still a mystery to me.
I've seen some sides to people here that are just plain mean.

I won't go so far a to say this is my last post, but I need a vacation from here, so I'm out of here for now.

-and yes, my all posts on this are history-

he'd help them if he didn't leave them on the trail first.

Look, I posted on this for a couple reasons...

SCCX has a long track record of stupid and reckless behavior... most of which they have done a fine job of hiding... aside form Axle and Logan bragging about some of the stupid shit they have done, most has gone untold... I know very little of it, as i chose to distance myself from SCCX after seeing some of it first hand... but i know far more than most on XOC.

People wondered shy i wanted to move westX t havasu... simple, so axle & toolbox wouldn't know the area well enough to lead a run.

As for Logan's story, when his roll happened i tried to get him to tell the true story, so others could learn from his mistake... but at the time I was very concerned about what people on XOC and particularly in sccx thought of me(due to running westx) so kept my mouth shut.

now we all have the opportunity to learn from axles mistake(same one Logan made)

but sadly I'm pretty damn sure axle wont learn from this... he apparently hasn't and anyone defending him in this incident obviously can not grasp a concept this simple so the lesson is lost on them as well...

in the end, it seams anyone capable of learning from this already knows better.

------------edited to add-------------

wow the front page of sccxterra.com has got to be the most ironic page i have ever seen

Last I checked Ian didn't believe in god so forget forgiveness.

Don't turn this into a religious debate either you will never win as we will never win so let it be.

No it is not safe to drive like that. I am not sticking up for every action that Axle has ever done. In this instance, in the snow, there was not a lot that he could have done.

There are some in our club that have made some bad decisions, but it is not fair to lump an entire club together for the actions of a few. We do a lot of good in the off-road community. How many of you out there donate your time to make your wilderness areas a better place to be? I am sure that there are some out there.

Todrick?

Jason

as a matter of fact, wise ass... I do.

aside from organized trail clean ups, I now make it a regular habit to bring and fill 2 large hefty trash bags EVERY time i hit the trails... not just when I'm gonna get a pat on the back. but more importantly, I do not claim to provide useful information and guidance to people new to the sport while simultaniously condoning the outright reckless endangerment that some sccx members display.

I never said all of SCCX are reckless, I thought i was clear in stating that its just several of them... and the lack of common trail etiquette. A good leader, leads. they are responsible for everything and everone on the trail(or in the club) with them. They don't leave people on the trail, and they don't allow dangerous and reckless drivers to participate in runs so they can endanger the lives and property of others

axle always seemed like a decent guy... but i would not want him driving anywhere near me, my family or my truck...

Todrick please just :rolleyes: .

First off I was not trying to be a wise ass. Also, I do not think it is necessary to resort to name calling. What are we? Three? I have never had a problem with you, or anyone else on this board for that matter.

I think it is commendable of you to participate in organized clean-ups. I too carry spare trash bags with me (cache in trash out) and not for a pat on the back.

I do not condone the reckless behavior of others. As far as his rollover in the snow goes, I still think that he did the only thing that he could do. (as I have stated before) Were not going too fast. We were not follownig too closely. It was just a accident. That incident, and only that incident, am I commenting on. Take care.

Jason

you guys should go back and read you you have said. this thread has cause so much neg. around this board, i say lets just close the topic. yes a mistake has been make and thats that no point of fighting over it. Everyone is entitle to their op. if you keep aguring there will be no end to this thread and everyone on this forum will just end up offending each other and no one will come to this site anymore.

i'm not saying this was the intention of any of the posters here, but there can be a serious backlash of negativity caused here that can stay a lot longer than this thread.

there WILL be people who will develop a bad image of sccx as a WHOLE from reading this, just as some in the southern california area who will automatically become hostile towards everyone else.

this is oviously the right place to discuss offroad safety/courtesy, but there are some personal jabs here that need to be taken elsewhere.

we already have a reputation of giving newcomers a hard time (posting subjects that could've been answered through searching, etc). we don't need them to start thinking sccx as the black sheep of xterra clubs.

those of you who aren't affected in the way mentioned above, good for you. but don't deny that there are hundreds of readers who haven't even posted in this thread but are susceptible to falling into at least one of the two sides.

Scorpian7051

OK, first, sorry for the name calling, i felt that you were implying that i don't do anything of that nature and was offended, it appears that is not what you meant, so i apologize.

no, he could have driven within in the limits the conditions allowed. basically, if his only choice was to swerve and hit the ditch.... he was going to fast. think of it this way, would it have happened if he was going 2mph slower? how bout 5mph? or 10mph? stop me when i hit the right number, because that is how fast he should have been driving... same goes for whoever the leader was.... if they hit a tree in the road they were going too fast. this is not rocket science.

-----------------------------

LAXTERRA

Bite me.

Prove Me Wrong.
-Explain how Axle was driving safely for conditions.
-Explain how the leader was also.
-explain how anyone in the group that had to swerve AT ALL was.

since i brought it up, i assume you meant about the other things too.... so:

-explain how its OK for a trail boss to leave the group hes leading in the middle of a trail WELL above what they are equipped to handle, and leave them in the hands of someone who has never been on the trail.

-Explain how it is then OK for the replacement leader to leave a group of broken trucks... when he could clearly hear them on the FRS telling him to stop, and an hour later at camp(with the guys still stuck on the trail), claim he never heard it.

Do that for me LAXTERRA and i will gladly

until then you need to play hide and go fuck yourself.

No, that was not my intent.

Although, now that you mention it... they kind of are.

A fellow Xterra owner I know, upon meeting SCCX for the first time, said to me
"you know whats odd about sccx?"
"what?" i asked
"sccx", he responded

its not a bad thing, not really. Its just sccx is not like other clubs

I know there are many new faces in the club that are good people... A lot has changed since i left the club... not all of it for the better. My biggest issue with this whole thing is that these new people are learning from "the old guard" as another owner put it in a recent PM... Scorpion is great example... he is defending axle, "he did the only thing he could" instead of saying "hey axle, you really need to slow down and be more careful, someone could have been seriously injured or killed" thats not right.

its the job of the old guard to teach the new people how things should be done... Am I the only one that sees this?

ok i just browsed the sccx site a bit...

I will lay off on some of my comments. as i now see that certain long time members of which i was speaking have sold their xterras. so i asusme they must not be heavily involved with SCCX anymore as they don't own an Xterra, or even a nissan for that matter.

WOW, what a shock.

I need to start FORMERXterraownersclub.com there seems to be a lot of us old school owners that have recently moved on to other vehicles

Um, I'll take "What is 'drive slower' for $400"...

Um, Todrick, you might wanna make that "former2wheeldrivexterraowners.com"

That's rich - nice dig!

Hey Todrick - LEAVE!

I never knew people felt this way about SCCX. The only thing I ever saw that made me feel uncomfortable were the high speed runs across dry lake beds. I did ride across the lakebed with a group of people at West X though. Once the dust started getting thick I dropped out due to fear that somebody would come out of the dust and hit me. I think things like that are interesting to watch though. Hell, the most dangerous thing I ever saw was the "Chaos" scene for the Nissan commercial and even then it was a controlled situation. Logan was the only guy I ever saw have trouble during a run and that was the time he swamped his truck. I didn't see him ford the river, but the people that did stated that he wasn't going any faster than the others there. I agree that it is important to be sane and leave room for mistakes and unexpected things, but I also feel that there are instances where even the best judgement won't stop you from having damage occur. I'm not going to say Axle was wrong for two reasons:
1) I wasn't there.
2) If I did, then I would probably have the exact same thing happen to me no matter how careful I was.

I was up at Big Bear the following weekend and watched several people slide into ditches. You don't have to be going fast for it to happen. All of the people I saw sliding around were moving at a crawl. I parked my truck far from the area where people were driving because of it. The roads there are rarely flat and the snow was packed on top of a sheet of ice. I had to crawl in 4 lo in first gear and still felt nervous. I parked as soon as I was clear of the traffic area and made my family walk several hundred yards to an area where we could safely play in the snow. My kids were sliding around on the road just walking. If anything the only thing they did wrong in my opinion was to be driving up there at all, but like I said, I wasn't there. That might have been the first ice they ran into. I stand by my statement that Axle is a good guy and a safe driver. He pushes his truck to it's limits, but I've learned a lot from watching him drive, even if it is sometimes not to do what he just did.

Toderick, I had no idea that you felt this strongly about all of this. I remember times that I stood up for you in discussions on this board. You have done some things that some here might think are unwise as well. I know I have. I think you've let a lot of things build up instead of venting at the time you were originally pissed off. You need to let people know how you feel when they do something that irritates you. Holding it in just makes you a lot more pissed later. Hopefully this thread has gotten a lot of stuff in the open and we can all be one big happy family again and just rip on Brent.

scorpion7051 is correct. It is not fair to blackball an entire club because of the actions of a few of its members. And while some of the "more experienced" off-roaders do bring up valid points regarding safety and etiquette, the tone in which they present their arguments is at times condescending, patronizing and holier-than-thou--not to mention instigative. As a result, the members of SCCX have understandably become defensive and this thread has been reduced to an egotistical turf war. Yes, maybe Axle was pushing his Xterra beyond its limits. And yes, maybe certain SCCX members have exhibited questionable off-road behavior in the past--but not all of them. I'd like to think that people can learn from their past mistakes. Can't we all take the higher ground on this matter and just move on?

-dp

Todrick,

I am defending Axle in this instance because I was there. We were going slow down the trail. None of us were driving recklessly. At one point later in the day I was going, literally like 2 miles an hour, and tapped my brakes. All I did was let off of the brake. My whole front end slid sideways 5 or 6 feet because it was icy and I was on a hill. I have seen people at a dead stop slide 10 to 15 feet because it was icy. In my opinion, which I am entitled to, the only thing that we could have done differently to avoid this mishap would be to have stayed at home. What would be the point of owning a 4X4 then? What we do involves a certain amount of risk.

As far as me being a newbie and learning from the old guard from SCCX, I have been driving off road since before I even had a liscence to drive. My dad used to let me drive in the woods in NJ. I am sure some of you on this board will jump on me for saying that now too, but he taught me the safe and proper way to do it at a young age. Those lessons have stayed with me throughout my life.

Jason

As a newbie member of SCCX (even though I have been with them for over 2 years, but don't get a chance to offroad much) I have to give my 2 cents here. Part of offroading is seeing what are trucks can do and what we can do, some are more incline to push those limits farther than others, we have all made mistakes and learned from our experiences. The incident with Axle's truck was an accident and nothing more, could of been worse, I don't know if it could have been avoided, I wasn't there. As for Todricks comments I can't keep my mouth shut about it anymore. The hostility that he has for SCCX stems from the fact that most senior members do not like the way he handled WESTX, he made alot of promises and fullfilled none. He had no itinerary of what was planned, basically it was a free for all and certain SCCX members picked up the pieces and took the lead. As for personal experiences with Todrick in regards to irresponsible behavior, he took a 2wd truck knowing that he had a bad battery to west X, expecting somebody to give him a jump everytime he turned his truck on, I gave him at least 2 jumps while I was there. He took his 2wd on a night run on a 4wd trail, in the process tearing up the trail really bad, determined to make it up the incline and in the end having to be winched up not once but on two different occasions, and holding up the entire group for over an hour. I could go on but I won't. Like you Todrick I try and keep all personal feeling aside, but if there is one thing that I can't stand its hypocrites. Enough said. we have all made mistakes and hopefully we have all learned from them.

From an earlier post.

Oh really?

hey Marshal ( included)

but no, it would be formerxterraownersclub.com unless you think xtoolbox, Xfactor and soon xrock(just to name a few) owned 2wds

Rule number one, Jason.... NEVER ASSUME:

Since you are still here I guess I can be here posting too....

Notice the lead vehicle in a number of the linked pictures.

http://members.tripod.com/xclogan/photos.htm

Silver Canyon (outside Bishop, CA) is challenging for ANY 4WD/AWD vehicle. And the Volvo lead the way until we got to the first of 7 water crossings, which at that time I rode caboose in case the water was too deep and I might have to turn around...But it was not and I did not.

Remember as you quoted...SCCX -IS- different: 2WD? No problem! AWD Stationwagon? No problem! Beginner or Expert? No problem! Attitudes and hippocrites? PROBLEM! The same goes for the rest of you who were not there, who assume.

And I am still active in SCCX. As you can see from this:

http://ca-l2h.tripod.com

Not to mention that I still have a Nissan too (although I think that statement was not directed at me).

LOGAN

Yeah, I see your point... but there is a lot more to it than that.

my problems with sccx go way back, and I did vent in the past, and was banned fom posting on the sccx board for it.

WestX existed because of those problems with sccx... it was the ANTI-Xcursion, intened to go against everything that sccx was doing at that time...

it worked, things mellowed out, i spent hours on the phone with the board of directors and issues were resolved, I was cool with some of the old guard, we put the differences aside and had fun a few times.

but i think everything began to turn sour for me when the anti-xcursion i began turned into an sccx induced nightmare. first axle and logan jumped in and started doing things that were decidedly against what westx was all about, then when i tried to explain renee jumped in withthem and the three of them blasted me publicly and tried to make me look liek the prick for trying to protect what i had started. then when the event acually happened some sccx members only spotted other sccx members on a trail, eventually just leaving people when they broke down.

I was Pissed. But i kept my mouth shut, out of respect for the club as a whole. I spoke to the peopel that were trail and for the most part they were ok with it and said they didn't want to stir up shit over it. since i intended to run more westx's i followed that idea, attempting to avoid another public confrontation with logan, axle and renee... it didn't work. I intentionaly provided no itinerary for westX scheduled for oct. 2003 I was gonna go back to the roots and not allow others to dictate what the event should be, let it just be a "come as you are" event again... they pile don me again, this time not just on the forums, but on PM and email as well...

what happened, SCCX scheduled their nccx/sccx joint run, CALX(normaly held in july) for the weeked prior to westX... this obviously hurt westX, intentionaly i feel, as nccx people where unlikely to make both events and several sccx members emailed me to let me know they would not attend both.

nothing much happened after that, until this thread... Axle and others giving ian shit for jokingly saying he would leave someone behind(when we all know he wouldn't) was too fucking much considering axle HAS left people on the trail.

I think i'm done with this thread, most of the old time members know what started all my issues with sccx... those that don't can PM me if they want, just make sure you PM Xtoolbox & LAXterra as well, remember there are three sides to every story.

Pot calling the kettle black here....

As I remember when I was coordinating the 4 hr rescue effort for the stranded party that Sunday morning at WestX, you were driving home! You, the organizer just left us there not waiting to see if we got out OK or at all. Yes, you may have tried to radio us, but we did not get the message. You know the terrain there you know you have to be right there to get radio communication.

Todrick and Ian would make good off-road partners as they could leave each other if something happened.

And when my truck fell off the road...what was I doing there? I was following Snoopy back to San Diego just to make sure that he and his family got there yes 200+ miles. Remember one of the SCCX rules...Never travel alone....

LOGAN

You need to lower that speed estimate down to 15 or 20 MPH. There is NO way anyone could go that fast there...even off-road bikes could not go that fast there....You have never been there so again....DO NOT ASSUME!!!!!

Can I join too? LOL

you need to knmwo whatyour talking about before you talk man.

I hope every has learned.

The most reckless thing i have ever done in my 2wd was 100mph on the dry lake... with the closest other truck being over a mile away... and only myself in the truck. I have gone places in my 2wd most think insane, but i have always done so with safety in mind, baring one incident where my passenger caused my truck to shift(i even have that on video LOL), i have never had an accident on the trail, not with my xterra, not with my jeep, and not with any other vehicle i have owned.

I resent you blaming me for going on the night run, logan reasurred me 3 seperate times that it would be ok.

If I can not see the ground where I am driving then I WANT A SPOTTER. I am happy to say that I will NEVER be on a run with Ian again (or be allowed to for that matter). I thought that was the point was off-roading TOGETHER. So why don't you go and drive off by yourself? I am sure we would be happy to let you go.... And unlike yourself...if you had trouble I am sure we would come to assist.

And how many runs has RMXC had? Now compare that to the number that SCCX has had... Also take into account that you HAVE NOTHING in Colorado as we do in California for varying terrains. You only have moutains and rocks there. We have EVERYTHING HERE. So get your fat ass out here and see how the real world (if you can call California real) is and not Ian's little narrow minded opininated glass house World.

LOGAN

sorry, once again just going by what YOU told me... you'd think i would have learned by now.

And why did Logan and Axle jump in?
1.You had been there once in the last year.
2.Less than 48hrs prior to the start of WestX, you threw out all of the schedules and changed everything. No wonder no one came, especially the vendors.
3.I only jumped in because after a year of offering to take you there you never went (except for once). How could you plan an event if you do not know the routes and terrain and what is there?
4.As I remember you got lost on Coyote Dry Lake...IN THE DAYTIME WITH A GROUP OF TRUCKS FOLLOWING YOU!!!
5.And did you say "Logan, back off this is mine!" NO!

Shall I go on?

LOGAN

Flame on!!

damn logan, your delusional.

1. um yeah, cause you volunteered to scout the trails we didn't alreayd know and figure out the difficulties. something you and axle apparently misjudged. you did this becaus ei was up front in telling you how busy i was gonna be and that i needed help with it.
2. because you renee and axle tried to hijack the event and put in your own schedules, porta potties and all sorts of other bullshit.
3. I had a job, i was working 6, 12 hour days.
4. lol yeah, i did.. that was funny... No one was in danger, just turned around... as you know the dry lake is HUGE and from the middle you can barely see the edges, let alone the 20' wide exit trail to the south... shit happens, but at least it wasn't dangerous shit or getting people in over their head.

5. no, i guess I should have told you to fuck off... but im generaly a nice guy, you know that... I considered you a friend. you were at my wedding for god sakes... whatever man, I was far too nice with westx cause i didn't want the negative publicity that ended up happening anyway...

its shit like this that makes me glad i got rid of the xterra

Gee if we did not hear from you while we were stranded in the Canyon and you were at the gas station then who were you talking to?

Cause NONE of us heard from you until well after we were out and back to an empty base camp. You were long gone by then. Besides we were to busy turning trucks around, fixing tie-rods, fixing flat tires and getting out to talk to you. I do remember hearing some garbled messages but nothing that I could understand.

How can you organize an event with a dead battery?

DON'T even make an excuse for Coyote Lake. Axle and I can drive to any point on Coyote Lake at night without a GPS and find any thing out there including a way out. (All without landing in the mud hole). I frequently cut across it at night when I am going to/from Fort Irwin from Las Vegas (except after it has been raining) , and yes...IN THE VOLVO too.

And did I take over WestX? NO! As many people heard me say many times it was YOUR event. Everyone there knew you had not done anything for it so most people came to me for questions. I never claimed WestX, only that I was assisting you. That you can ask anyone of. We thought the porta-potties would make is nicer for us camping in Mule Canyon, that's all. Maybe if we had them there then the people who stayed at the KOA would have stayed there and then your WestX would have not been split up as you complained over. Not everyone likes to shit on the ground.

LOGAN

LOGAN

didn't make an excuse for coyote lake... just said it was funny. in hind sight it is... it sucked for the 20 minutes or so we looked for the trail head.

i know you never said westx was your event... but you did attempt to do many things without my input... and i didn't have a problem with people at the KOA, i simply commented that it would have been nice if they came to base camp at night(or stayed later as the case may be)

---edited-------

you know what, its not worth it anymore..;. i ahve been bickering with one memebr or another from sccx for the last 3 years... its rediculous.

I guess i have to have faith that others will be able to see the problems i have seen, for their own sake.

"5. no, i should have told you to fuck off... but im generaly a nice guy, you know that... I considered you a friend. you were at my wedding for god sakes... whatever man, I was far too nice with westx cause i didn't want the negative publicity that ended up happening anyway...

its shit like this that makes me glad i got rid of the xterra"

I started to fuck off and not stay there or even be there.

You had people coming from all over. And for what. "Let's just do what-ever, when-ever". That is not what the people who were there wanted they wanted to know that who-ever was leading them knew what the hell they were doing and where they were going. And what was going on. At least they did until 2 days before when you changed the format. I wanted to leave and considered it Friday night. Muchless Saturday.

I don't think anyone has any doubts of your organization of any event. Look what has happened to WestX since.

ok last post

you need to read this thread before you post on it... i already posted what happened to westx.

westx is not, dead... I don't own my x anymore and have nothing to do with it or any regional x club,

but there is a new sheriff in town.

why does Logan need to reassure you, wasn't this YOUR event, weren't you the one leading? You and Yvonne left a good impression on me and seem like nice people bu t I think sometimes your ego gets in the way of what really happened

Damn you Cali guys sure are whiney bitches. Get out and wheel your trucks. If you do something stupid admit it. If you continue to do stupid shit, after people try to help you correct your problem fuck off for being a hard head. I am not the best driver by any stretch of the imagination. When I first started though, I listened to those with more experience than me, namely Carlton, and learned from them.

Count yourself lucky. I pretty much had to learn for myself.

Geez, the things that get yall spun up.
1. Don't sweat the small stuff.
2. It's all small stuff.

Ummmm....yeah.....what he said.

Sorry I haven't answered you yet. I have been too busy playing... You can't leave well enough alone. :rolleyes:

I have to go pick my daughter up from school... help her with her home work... then deal with you hopefully for the LAST time.

Yeah I appreciated the help I received. Of course I left out the part wear I rednecked it through a deep mud puddle up to the door handles about five times and poked a stick into the fan shroud within ten minutes of each other. Almost blew up the engine that day. Thankfully for my truck my next wheeling trip was with SWXC, and I have learned a lot since, and still wheel with them all the time.

Logan, you can take your comments of me leaving anybody and stick them in your ass.

I have never left anyone on a trail run.
2 years ago at goneMOAB, I left the group on the dirt road back to town after 13 hours of Golden Spike. You all had maps, and it was a dirt road back to the highway. The trail run was over at that point. Am I supposed to have you follow me all the back to my condo and open a beer for you ?

Don't ever post false information about me again you miserable, whiny little fuck.

Man alive, do we have a lot of people in here who insist on having the LAST word on everything!

Come on, guys....

Edited to add: Not pointing the finger at you Ian. You posted just before me.

I was done until Logan showed up. I won't have him posting lies about me.

On a lighter note... :rolleyes:

If you ever head a run like this I'll make the trip.

As relative new member of SCCX (less then one year), I just want to post to say it is a great club and has a wonderful group of people. Please don't let this thread make you think otherwise of joining.

I have met all the people you all are complaining about (can you say the same?), so do not rag on them until you know them personally. A few pictures doesn't really tell the whole story.

AXLE is a great driver and has gotten people out of jam before. He helps out fixing other people's Xterras. He is a valuable and contributing member to the club. I am sure he did the best he can do given the situation. No one is perfect... except for IAN. :p

LOGAN is famous in the club as being a bit agressive. I mean who in their right mind would drive their Volvo as an Xterra? He is a great navigator and can pretty much find his way around anywhere. He doesn't leave people behind. I mean, he can technically leave the club since he doesn't have an Xterra anymore, but he stays.

Are they the safest drivers in the world? Probably not, but should they be scorn for life because of their mistakes? No. Both of them are great members of SCCX, and I am sure lots of people in the club appreciates that they offer.

Just go to the website, www.sccxterra.com and read some of the posts there. We have regular Xcursions every month. We help out the environment and got Club of the Year over other 4x4 clubs. How many other Xterra club can say the same?

Anyways, sorry to hear what happenned to your X, Axle. I am glad that you and your family are OK (the most important thing). If there is anyone who can fix it, you are da man.

Gee...then WHAT would you call the direct quote of a statement that you made below from page 3 of this thread Ian? I am sure that it was comforting to the ones who up until then were thinking of following you....

I was only quoting the source! -YOU-

LOGAN

I wondered when this would get moved here...

So who is winning?

So why the hell did I get brought into this and slammed around? I was not even there when Axle went over, I was not even in the same state.

And if you think I am going to sit back and get phone call after phone call and e-mail after e-mail telling me I need to look at XOC...I need to look at XOC.....And then I do look and see you all slamming ME for no reason...

That is why I quit posting here in the first place. If Todrick keeps his fingers out of here so will I. And we all know THAT will never happen....

LOGAN

Do me a favor and learn how to reply to posts. The quote goes on the top, not the bottom.

Here's an example...

A. Because it is hard to understand.
Q. Why shouldn't we top post ?

THANKS... I always wondered about that...

This thread is finger-lickin' good!!!!!!

nope... but you can thank Renee for bringing you into into it... i was contenet not to use your name or situation... i fyou look at my first post you can see i did not mention you by name, or give details about the situation.

then renee spewed the lie you all made up... by that point i had already said i wasn't playing that game anymore so i had to point out the revisionist history

So are you all saying that I shouldn't go on the upcoming SCCX Xcursion, which will be my first? I'm sorry, but I haven't been convinced about it being unsafe. I know enough not to follow others if I feel uncomfortable. I have always off-roaded on my own (CJ7) and wouldn't hesitate to head off on my own if I felt unsafe.

My only concern would be that I may possibly hold up the group. I would hesitate (big time) doing 100 across a dry lake and my main purpose of a run would not be to see how far I can push my X.

Joining the group was my new safe and sane way of going off road. I have always gone by myself, but a lot of people have a problem when they hear that. They are probably right. Now I'm not sure if I would fit in after reading these posts. It's kind of sad.

I guess this answers the question of what effect this thread is having on XOC and Xterra clubs in general.

never go alone...

go out with SCCX, you be the judge...

really i would suggest you wheel with people that you think share the same ideologies as you, in regards to trail choices, trail etiquette and driving techniques.

you already have a background in off-roading, so you should know right from wrong.

Honestly, I'm not telling people to not go on sccx runs. I'm just letting them know that it is important to learn what your doing from people who know what they're doing... and certain sccx members (not all, or even the majority) have demonstrated time and again that they don't.

in the end it comes down to common sense, something you seem to have...

so go, have fun, Be safe...
and keep the rubber side down

"I'd hoped that we could come here and reason together. And as a reasonable man I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to find a peaceful solution to this problem."

don't hesitate to come on the next xcursion. i have only been to one xcursion, and thus only met logan once.
while i have never wheeled w/ axle, i can thank him for installing my lift and overall being a VERY helpful person who spent pretty much TWO WEEKEND AFTERNOONS with my xterra. i have great respect for him as a family man, friend and mechanic.
as for logan: on the xcursion i went on, we had some 4x2's with us. logan intentionally went ahead and left his frontier in 2wd to see if the 2wd xterras could make it. he cooperated with the other team members just fine and had the safety of others in mind.
sccx in general: a great group of people. come on the next xcursion, xterrah. decide for yourself.

this is exactly what i was talking about a few pages before. if it's personal, keep it that way. don't brand an entire group because of personal issues.

Ha ha Madman, that was on HBO last night. I love that movie.

You guys need to go to the video section and see the picture of Ian being safe on a motorcycle in the "oh my" section.

Quite the example.

Hey Axle:

Looks like your tail pipe may need replacing. Kind of rusty!

You need to find a hobby other than hovering around this board being useless.

Awwwwww did the truth smack you in the ass again Ian?

You poor baby.

Hmm driving on a racetrack in full leathers with a helmet. How is that unsafe? For him maybe. For others no.

It probably wasn't unsafe. Right up until he took his hand off the bike to make a peace sign for the camera.

Crash a bike that fast and little metal parts fly everywhere. Is the cameraman wearing a helmet and body protection?

Besides it was a conscious decision to do that, unlike simply driving on an icy road and going in a ditch.

I wasn't there when Axle put his truck on it's side, so I can't judge if he was unsafe or not. But I can see Ian saying one thing and doing another. He was rather vehement about it too, name calling etc.

I don't like offroading with unsafe people either. I'm just pointing out yet another inequity. Maybe more peole would listen to Ian if he weren't such a prick to people who don't kiss his ass, like you Paul.

Ian proabably wasn't doing anything over 50 when that shot was taken. Certainly not the 187 he jokingly claimed.

Below is what we all think of this thread



-dp

Somehow i cant picture Ian driving in same style on the snowy streets, let alone - 4wd trails

Btw , IMHO, going even 20miles/hour on snowed+iced trail like that (with curves and blind turns) was/is nuts, but then hey.. i am safety nut

Axle - i am glad that everyone went off without injuries, but i still can not figure out how the heck it managed to flip like that.. Mind boggling puzzle:)

I have to say, I have a lot of respect for all of you. I was expecting cry-baby icons and instead I got a truck rating. That’s so cool. I haven’t taken to heart too much of this thread as far as personalities go. Being a passionate person (either side) shows substance. Again, I was just more concerned about holding the group up.

I think the way it works on these runs is that there is a predetermined trail and then stopping points with an option to either take a break or to go out on a “competition hill” excursion. That brings a nice balance so that those who want to test how their most recent mods respond, or just want to play, get that opportunity.

I feel assured from the responses I got here and from e-mails I have received, that everything will be fine. As far as “don’t go out alone.” Okay, I’ll *try* to do my best to stick to that.

Not that I need to come to Ian's defense.......but he, of course was not doing 187mph for one thing.

Second, do you non-riding nimrods know that is how you signal the racing corner officials that you have seen the race flags or the end of the race? :rolleyes: You can either lift your arm up or lift your leg up off the peg. It appears to me that is what Ian was doing.

I have lost count how many times I have ridden with one hand on the bars.

Stone

I will not try to explain bike racing techniques to you Marshall as someone already has. As for kissing Ian's ass I have never done that. Some might think you are kissing Axle's ass by taking his side if you do. I wasn't there either and really am not taking a side on this just was pointing out the obvious jab you took at Ian about unsafe driving of his motorcycle. All is good though I still enjoyed drinking with you and hope to do it again soon.

Leslie was behind a wall 400 feet away with a telephoto lens.
I was going about 50mph.
Little metal parts don't fly everywhere.

I'm going to cancel your "Don't be stpid" account now Marshall, since all you use it for is to agree with your Stone4x4 posts to make yourself look smart (which you're not).

Todrick, sort of off topic,

http://members.cox.net/westx/nfindex.html

Please remove my photo from the WestX site, I don't recall being asked if you could use it in the 1st place.

that is very off topic CCX

LOL, your funny...

you didn't have a problem with it when you saw the site when it first went live MONTHS AGO.

oh well...

not that I care, the new WestX organizer will probably like a new site anyway.

Opps, sorry I didn't know where to post it, seemed to me WestX was gone, so I saw no need for my photo on the front page.

I'm glad you think I'm "funny", cause you sure haven't been in this thread.
This is one of the most mean spirited threads ever, and some of it seems to have rubbed off on me.

no, it really was funny to me, cause i remember you being OK with it when i first posted the site. I'm sorry if you had a problem with it, being involve din the music industry i do take copyright issues fairly seriously, and appologize for my lack of foresight.

as for the thread being mean spirited... my first post was a joke, entirely tongue in cheek, just a "rib", if you will.

then i read some other things on the net, and posted the second message in response to you... you deleted your original post, but my reply remains...

still, my second post was not mean spirited, and i even said i wasn't gonna "blast people", that it would be unfair, unless they continued to be stupid.

well.

not a big deal to me.
by nature, I have a chronic case of the "fuck-its", Its the way I have always been. I think i have been very tolerant over the last couple years, watching and tolerating stupid shit after stupid shit, and mean spirited comments and actions.... i did my best for that time to "turn the other cheek", sometimes i slipped up a little, I'm a passionate person.

but now i have liberty to not worry about what xterra owners as a whole think of me, i can "shoot from the hip" and speak my mind... something i have left to Ian, for the most part, since i started westx.

It's really nothing new, anyone who was on the old yahoo clubhouse before XOC saw it... I just stopped after my initial problems with sccx, and starting westx.

Honestly, I don't mean to offend.
but if I did offended anyone,
maybe they needed to be offended.

Fuck it

http://forums.obnoxiousjerks.com/index.php

Umm..........just in case you didn't know, that is verrry strange site.

I run it, I should know.

Damn, thats a cool site....

i just joined.

Disclaimer: The opinions and observations expressed are strictly those of myself and do not necessarily reflect the views of the SCCX. :p
Any profanity in this post is due to my absolute frustration. I do not speak this way normally but... I have to get this out.
********************************************
Vendetta's:

Your personal vendetta's have to stop.

Axle
Logan
Xtoolbox

Who else do you have on your list... I should clarify... who else do you have a vendetta with... who are current or past members of SCCX?

Hey Todrick... would you like to tell everyone where you got your info about Logan rolling his Xterra? Remember the phone conversation when you called the SCCX hotline (866)2-XTERRA? No one but Logan was present when he got his X in trouble. The theory from the attempted rescue team was that he was driving too fast. No one said their theories outside of respect for what he was doing. Following XSnoopy(who had a bad clutch) out and 200 miles one-way back to San Diego.

I guess when I thought we had "buried the hatch" after that conversation... I was stupid for ever trusting you to keep the theory to yourself... as you promised. I went out of my way to get Tom Leykis stuff for you. When I was at the Playboy Mansion... I even got the Playmate of the Year (she had won a motorcycle you like) to sign a picture for you. You dug up the hatchet an as your parting shot decided to stick the hatchet in someone's back.

Fine... why don't you tell everyone about MYblackX? About your impersonations on XOC to try an get the ball rolling on your attempt to usurp the Founding Four at SCCC. It was both sad(having conversations with yourself) and pathetic to see you using other screen names on SCCX and XOC to try an further your cause. We banned you from SCCX for 90 days for violating the TOS(kind of like a time out for kids). You then went whining on various Xterra boards... an bad mouthed SCCX. I laid my cards on the table an told you we knew about MYblackX. You tried to make excuses for your actions. I told you we tracked your IP address on SCCX. We knew it was you. You can go on trying to play the blame game. Blame everyone but yourself for everything from it was your girlfriends fault that she got pregnant twice to any an all WestX problems are SCCX's fault.


********************

WestX:

As far as West X which is a lie... an which is the truth?
From the West X homepage.

08-14-2003
Finally the new and updated website goes live... However the lauch of the new site is bitter-sweet. While it has been a long time coming and is a major step forward, it also comes with the announcement that there will be no official WestX in 2003. After much debate it became painfuly obvious that trying to pull off WestX again with 2 months of planning was simply not going to produce the calibur of event we intend to hold. Thank you for your continued support, See you in Lake Havasu in Spring 2004.

Leadership/Responsibilty:

Kind of reminds me of the time you decided to drive up to Santiago Peak :rolleyes: with your son Aiden. You went along... just you an a infant. You saw the road had snow and ice on it. You kept going... hit snow and ice an nearly went off the side of the mountain. Your ego got the better of you. You had something to prove to yourself in your 2wd X. Well your lucky it didn't cost you our your infant son your lives.

Our how about the time you backed into Xterrian on the trail?

Oh... I forgot... you were just the organizer of WestX. You were not responsible for anything. You were even scared to get port-a-potties for fear of being responsible. :rolleyes: Just to bad for the person that got the case of rare Fungal Menengitis(from exposure inside the mine)... because people shit inside the mines... wipe their ass and leave it uncovered on the rock pile.

As leader of 4 Mojave Road Xcursions... I remember the Whinny Weasel Wonder(WWW) tirade of 2001. I made the decision to not allow 2wd vehicles to attend. I was following the "Mojave Road Guidebook" guidelines. It was a unpopular decision with you... that caused you to go over the edge an started the attempt to usurp the club.

So that is why at WestX 2001 you left Aiden's rotating saucer because the steering wheel was broken an "he would just get frustrated with it".

So that is why at WestX 2002 you split an left a file of trash at your campsite before the stuck people got back to the campsite. As the last to leave I halled your trash home. The Orange County magazine was interesting. :rolleyes:

I know you were talking about Axle's truck of the week picture but... do you hate us so much that you scrolled past the award:
SCCX was given the award after countless hours of volunteer work, including but not limited to, manual labor at Wildomar OHV, organizing cleanups and trail maintenance, and software development for managing the CNFOHVA.

The club was doing a little more then picking up other peoples trash. Wildomar was going to be closed permanently without the required trail maintenance.

I'm getting old, I don't remember Toderick backing in to me on the trail. Not saying it didn't happen, I just have a crappy memory. I remember using my winch to pull him out once and I remember jumping him off at West-X. That's about it. I haven't been able to do any SCCX stuff in a long time. The Army keeps me away. I felt guilty when I read the SCCX page and saw they had won club of the year, so I went to Odessa and picked up garbage to make me feel a little bit better. I think you guys are great and will be on the next run that I can. There will always be things that other people do that irritate us. I always try to see it from the other guy's point of view. I know I can be irritating too. I do try hard to get along with everyone. I guess it's just my Army induced team ethic. I just hope all of this arguing has a positive end result.

Dang, this has gone from ugly to downright NASTY!

Seriously, you guys need to hug or something. This is like a "very special" Jerry Springer episode.

Last Post as, i have just been checking this thread waiting for your reply anyway...

WARNING, THIS IS BASICLY A NOVEL, if you don't have a bit of time, don't ewven bother trying to read this

no one else really, and it isn't even a vendetta, its just a long line of stupid shit, i just seem to be the one who deals with it most... that or other people enjoy dealing with it.

well you can probably add yourself to the list, cause you always seem to use revisionist history, or conveniently forget details when shit like this comes up.

you were not the only person i talked to that day, and if you had actually read this thread you would know where the info came from.

that was very nice of you to do that, and i still appreciate it. I never put a hatchet in your back, so to speak. In fact I clearly stated that if anyone PMed me about the mess, that they should also PM you to get another side to the story... guess you saved them the time.

you are so fucking stupid... this is what i meant, conveniently forgetting detaisl...

I posted mainly at work during the day when that argument was going on... while MY WIFE was at home... let me give you a second to figure it out...
.
.
.
OH WOW, "MyBlackX", as i told you before WAS MY FUCKING WIFE, ya genius.
She vowed to never come back to XOC after that.

as for usurping the board... no, i just figured you guys would operate like most clubs and have elections...

you were clear that "you had spent too much money, and the only way you would step down was if the club paid you back"

Greedy bastard.

The only time i had conversations with myself was apparently when i talked to you.

I never violated TOS

Hey Fuck you. If you have a probelm with things i say on this board... fine... but if you have a probelm with the fact that my then girlfriend and i did not see a reason to get married(due to religios beliefs) before our kids were born then just be a fuckin man and say it... your a prick. we are married now, i hope that is okay with you, sir.

I explained "MyBlackX", the actual one that pissed ya all off was "LawlessX", I did make one post on the SCCX board using the screen name "LawlessX" AFTER getting banned... just to know I could(its an IT guy pride thing) but it was not inflammatory and in fact i just inquired politely about the club. I have always freely admitted that.

well, there ya go... is it so odd that my wife didn't like the shit going on, the way i was being treated for pointing out SCCX's lack of 4x2 friendly runs at the time... that she didn't want to "ride along", honestly look at her post, its pretty obvious from the wording(not just spelling) that it wasn't me

1st i pulled down the site yesterday at CCX's request.

READ THIS THREAD YOU IGNORANT FOOL, i have said several times IN THIS THREAD that i have had to hold my tongue and not say thing... or in this case, put on a "game face", sort of "play nice".

your almost right here, and it was the worst experience i have ever LEARNED FROM, since then i never go out alone... HOWEVER, I was driving along, there was a bit of snow on the side of the trail... not much just little patches every 50-100 feet... i round a corner and proceed up a shady side of the mountain... there was no visible ice, it just looked like some of the snow was on the trail... my forward progress stopped... as it was indeed ice... but it had nothing to do with going too fast. just lack of familiarity with snow/ice.

If that happened in anyway you might have a point?

I think you mean the time i got stuck on a hill... Ned964 was pulling up to winch me up the hill, but for some reason parked behind me... my truck slid... i never "backed into" anyone... but again READ THE FUCKING THREAD... i already openly told about the incident.

so much bullshit here, i edited some

No, there was a very clear disclaimer on the WestX site... and posted here... However it is not about liability it is about common courtesy for the people on the trail with YOU... i wasn't with them on doran, but i was there that night to try and help them. while axle sat at the camp and toolbox drove back to camp.

countless hundreds have been in the mines... I'd say 50 with me in the last 15 years... and ONE CASE of menengitis... there is no proof thats where it came from...

revisionist history again... my complaint was that mojave road was happening, not that you were not allowing 2wd's... as i recall i took a couple months off from the club following my fathers august death, in Dec. i tried to come back, 4x4 only run. Jan. 4x4 only run, Feb, 4x4 Only...

i forget the exact months, but it was 4 consecutive 4x4only runs... so i was pissed, i spoke up that maybe your club meetings shouldn't be held at lunch on trail runs...

most of these issues have now been fixed by SCCX.

Your Welcome

I don't remember aiden's toy happening like that... i remember logan volunteering to drive it out in the back of his truck... cause it was not a small item.

and as far as i knew i didn't leave anything in '02... I guess its possible it fell out of my truck... btu seems unlikely.

regardless my change in trail attitude and tread lightly really has happened gradually, and i only adopted the trash bag thing, since participating in a trail cleanup with AXZC.
(the azxc trail cleanup was started BTW, after logan pulled his usual stupid shit on a run with them and was caught by a ranger)

it was both, it was the dichotomy of being "club of the year" and being "XOC's most dangerous club"

i think there have been some facts confused over time, but regardless this will never be settled... you think i set out to kill SCCX, when i really just wanted it back to the 4x2 friendly club it was. since then i think most of the shit that has happened ands the attitudes involved are still related to that...

as your comment that you would deal with me "hopefully for the last time" shows... but honestly, i don't want to feel the need to point out your guys errors either... so hopefully everyone learned form axle's mistake.

This is my last post. Really I am serious this time.

good point.

Ok, Jason. You've forced me to chime in.

Please do not make a rash generalization like that about any club.

You're just addding new fuel to this fire and it's not doing anyone a bit of good.

Please stop trying to have the last word on everything here.

As entertaining as this thread initially was, people seem to be over it. No one is going to be left standing as the winner. Let it go (and this goes for others as well).

Todrick,
I asked you to remove a photo, I did not ask you to remove the site.

PS-
To Whom it May Concern:

Moderator - SYLLABICATION: mod·er·a·tor
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: md-rtr
NOUN:
1. One that moderates, as:
a. One that arbitrates or mediates.
b. One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate.

This thread should be locked or deleted, and everybody should move on already, enough!

its in the ALR, it shouldn't be locked unless someone actually violates TOS...

anyway, no you asked to remove the photo, so while i was in there i just killed all the links on the site and replaced the news... I'm sorry that wasn't very clear.

Krisjon... your probably right, it was a generalization, but I don't know of another club who has had as many problems, and thus found the sccxterra.com home page, featuring the award juxtaposed with Axles flipped truck to be a bit amusing. as for the rest of your post... I'm with ya.

No one person is guilty, but just about every thing listed in this part of the TOS has been violated one way or another here.

yeah, some of that has been violated...

ok time for me to heed my own advice and krisjons...

I'll be arounbd, but I'm gonna go back to lurking for now.

Anyone else scroll through all of this thinking "blah blah blah blah blah...."

I still want to know who is winning.

Wilmac is...

He always wins

Duh

Bwahahhahahahahahahahah!

Uh, Ian Dont be Stpid is from work, it exists because I couldn't get a good password for a week once for some reason.

Every knows it's me, as I generally sign my name. I don't need any help arguing with the dolts on XOC, thank you very much.

When I called you on the bike thing you said you were going 187 mph. Now, of course, you are "just kidding" I took you for your word, stupid of me I know.

Paul, I am so not taking Axles side. I wasn't there and have no idea, just as Ian has no idea if he was being unsafe. I know that 4000 pounds on ice does funny things. If we want to take the ice safety thing to the degree Ian did against Axle, then if the trails are not in exactly perfect condition, paved, with spotters every ten feet, we should all stay home.

Personally I take all the necessary gear, never travel alone, radio back about bikes/trucks on the trail, stay on trails, pick up trash etc. I don't want a idiot to hurt me on the trail, for sure.

But if you can't see by now that if Ian doesn't like you it doesn't matter what the truth is, you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Have a nice day.

Damn, I've not even managed to be the focus of this much of a shit-storm on a message board before, and I've certainly been in a few. My hat's off to you Axle

Brent

You got quite a bit of crap over your lumberjack activities as I remember.

You had to bring that up again?

I bet that 95% of the board has no idea what I am talking about it happened so long ago

=

I never said you were taking Axle's side. I just pointed out it might seem you were kissing his ass if you were taking his side like you stated I was kissing Ian's ass because I was taking his.

I am not taking either side as like you I was not there. My opinion based on everything was that he was going to fast for the conditions but that is based on more what I would have done if the accident happened on a city road here. As far as the other crap the are shoving around I have no clue about most of it and do not care.

The only time I took Ian's side was the unsafe comment on his bike.

Congrats on the Titan BTW

wow 15 pages of pure unadulturate malice hate anger and backstabbing. Can we keep it going to 20 and show everyone in the world what children we all really are. I think we can Lets all try

Just trying to help your cause

Oh, no Axle would get a citation out here. Our title 28 traffic code has a reasonable and prudent speed law. His reasonable speed would be listed as zero. Any accident comes with that little ticket. 28-701D if I recall correctly.

Sorry Paul, sometimes I let little self serving pricks get the best of me, I'm trying to work on it.

What is the story behind this?

Hey Axle,
Besides the shit going on I have a question. Did you roll your tire off the rim flipping it over or during the recovery?

"Don't buy BULLSHIT that comes off at the wrong time."



"Todrick's BULLSHIT doesn't come off!

Even underwater!".



"And remember, Todrick's BULLSIT is tested against hurricane winds.

So forget about money! You can afford some Todrick BULLSHIT, priced to fit every budget.

So call me now! 212-TOD-RICK!".



"And come in for a personalized fitting.

Don't buy BULLSHIT that comes off at the wrong time! Call Todrick's BULLSHIT Shop! !"

I figured this would come out sooner or later on this thread.........

OOOOOO Smack!

Carlton is Winning!

This was funny, in a really wierd way... i don't get it at all.

I know you haven't been here long enough to have seen most of what we were talkign about, so was yoru post saying that the shit I'm saying "doesn't come off" as in it sticks to the target... or are you simply saying I'm "full of shit"

if its the latter I'd like to know how you could possibly come to this conclusion

I'm just shocked it took 15 pages...

Not quite sure, but those pics seem to say that off-roaders = anti-tree.
As for my tale, I got a bunch of flak for cutting down a small tree to get out of a bind on a trail that narrowed into an ATV-only width on me 3 years ago. It's funny when people bring it up now.

I hadnt read this thread till now, didnt realize 'Axle' referred to a person. Thought it was 'Axle' as in truck, so I didnt give it a look.

Wow, what a thread. Interesting info and stories for a newb to read, thats sure.

Axle, glad no one was hurt. Hope you got your X fixed.

Lumberjack Song

Us East Coasters always have a great time and get along well at ECXC

Sign up soon!

It's healthy for them to get it all out.
And it gives us something to point and laugh at.

I think everybody involved in the argument should be given avatars of their mistakes as punishment.

You are all a bunch of BEYOTCHES!!!

I win.

C,mon turn the page! 17! 17! One more for Daddy, C'mon!
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HA!

Hey Toddrick..
If you are going to quote Bad Religion. At least quote a good song.

I don't kiss Ian's ass and he isn't a prick to me. What gives?

What you guys need to understand is that Ian founded this board and grew it to the position it's currently in. He has a ton of time invested in it and doesn't want it to be associated with dumb people and their dumb decisions. Especially people that wear their unsafe decisions on their lapel as a badge of honor.

This doesn't mean that accidents aren't going to happen and that the people criticizing said accidents have never done anything unsafe in their lives. It just means that I understand why the founder and moderators want to keep this kind of chest pounding to a minimum. Especially since XOC has gotten national recognition from companies like Nissan, Calmini, etc...

Do we as the XOC community really want to be seen as DUMBASSES or TRAILER TRASH or RECKLESS ENVIRONMENT DESTROYERS? I don't and I would wager that 99% of the members here agree.

I remember when I first got involved in 4 Wheelin'. I was nervous because of my stereotype of offroaders. I thought all offroaders were back water, inbred, gun fanatic racists that would chew me up and spit me out. I was so relieved when I found out that XOC/RMXC was the exact opposite of my stereotype.

I just think that we as a community need to uphold the values that the majority here abide by and not act like someone rolling their Xterra is cool. I'm glad nobody was injured but rolling one's vehicle is a serious matter and should be treated as such. It seems like in the inbred world of offroading that rolling a rig is a requirement. That is one requirement I would like to avoid at all costs.

Let's not let ourselves get caught up in the stereotype of offroading. Let's project a professional image that any local municipality would love to have in their community.

These are just my opinions.

Just out of curiosity, what racist stereo type do we fall under now? Oh, btw you just described to perfection some of the people on this board. I win!

HOlly cow what happened to just pokin a bit of fun.

PS, Nice professional image!

It's fine to have a good time and, in your words, poke a bit of fun. I have no problem with that. Let's just keep it in perspective and deviate from the norm of propagating destructive behavior.

Being from Colorado and a member of RMXC, a common campfire topic is the potential closure of quality trails. All because of a few inconsiderate oafs that think offroading comprises of blazing new trails, shooting up trail signs and leaving every piece of trash they generate in the wild. This mentality is what I'm against and unfortunately, the idea that rolling one's rig is cool, is part of this mentality.

I'm not saying that Axle or his defenders thought that rolling his Xterra was cool. I'm just saying that we as a quality offroad community should be aware of the ramifications this mentality creates. I don't know about you but I don't want to be lumped into a stereotype in which I don't belong.

We in RMXC take pride in presenting a quality image and leaving the environment in the same state in which we found it. This doesn't mean that mistakes haven't been made. It just means that we try our hardest to not make them in the first place.

As far as destructive driving habits are concerned, we in the club pride ourselves in not allowing that particular behavior. When an individual displays mannerisms that not only put themselves or other club members in jeopardy we put a stop to it. It's not fair to everyone else in the club if they are constantly dealing with the carnage of one individual.

Again, these are just my opinions and should be taken as such.

I agree I just could not believe this turned into a 16 page item I had not read it in quite a few days and was astounded to see what had happened.

We all need to Tread Lightly, and axle wrecking his truck was not cool but very unfortunate.

The professionism Item was reffering to Elf not you Vince, after rereading my post it was not very clear.

Its not an X but it is all I got.

Lets all go get on a trail and have a beer, campfire and some really good stories about the day on the trail.

Elevated thinking, crossbred, gun-reasonable non-racists.

Um... during the last few month a couple other members flipped their Xterra or got into accidents because of the snowy weather. I don't recall any major firestorm made because of that. Most people are thanksful that everyone is OK, admire how well the Xterra held up and asked for pics. Pretty much the same thing happenned to Axle. It wasn't "cool" (no where did he said it was).

The next thing XOC made a specific post targeting Axle and his ability as a driver... then the whole dam broke loose.

What kind of stereotype are you looking at? Maybe it's the type of person who kicks someone who's down. :rolleyes:

Hey MaloCS

Your a DUMB ASS!!!!

Your post is one of the stupidest posts That I have ever read.

Do us a favor and STFU!!!

You spelled "You're" wrong, and "That" shouldn't have an uppercase "T".

One post a month from you and that's all you've got ? Lame.

For your reading enjoyment, the eloquent posts of a trout

Fuck, if you have something to say, at least say something.

I flipped through a few, and I didn't see even one complete or coherent sentence!

Wade M Trout.....

OMG those were a riot to flip through.

Eek.. lets not We got few inches of fresh snow from midnight and it keep snowing.. Bloody drive to work alone is like going on trail (cars couldnt make it up to hill from which i am descending to get to town).

So in few months maybe

Wow.

I leave you kids alone for a couple weeks, and this is what happens?

For shame, little ones, for shame . . .

Your stoopid Graham!

I win!



PS Welcome back! (Where did you go?)

Hey!!! HEYHEYHEYHEYHEY!!!! I own the copyright on "I win!" You owe me some bucks, buddy!!!

Therefore, I win!!!!

Hey doo-doo head, I don't see a © symbol anywhere. So I WIN!

I got it... you both win

You're both wrong.

You can't copyright a short phrase. I own the TRADEMARK!

I WIN!

You're both wrong.

You can't copyright a short phrase. I own the TRADEMARK!

I WIN!

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Well...wasn't that just "fair and balanced." hahaha