Gone but not forgotten

After 6 1/2 years our Xterra is gone. We sold our 2003 Rubicon and traded in our 2000 Rubicon Trail Rated Xterra for a 2006 Toyota Pruis.

It was a hard decision with all the outstanding selfless people in Southern California. Working weekends for nearly 7 years it was a hard decision for my family if I should take weekends off and not get paid or spend quality time with quality people.











Xtoolbox\'s hard work got national coverage of GONEMoab. He actually called the editor of FourWheeler Magazine... made a appointment and visted the office to pitch coverage of the first group of Xterra's to do Moab.


You wouldn't believe the amount of work it took for SCCX members to free my X!

gone.. and completely forgotten!

clever post.

You should be happy. You are the topic of many campfire stories. When "crazy cary" went completely off the deep end. It usually makes for a good laugh.

Yeah, everyone in SCCX is really going to miss you, too.

Have a nice life. Hope you find a rubber room that fits ya.

Seriously, or 4/1 joke?

gotta be an april fools joke. Nobody is that stupid.

WolfmanX's first post before he erased and changed it:
His current quote.

Obviously not forgotten since this one of your paparazzi pictures you took behind my back from close-up one year ago.

Your paparazzi cohort took other pictures with a long lens from 300-400 yards away. When you did absolute NOTHING but leave me. Only to mock me later on SCCX. Only to brag about who thoughtful you were later that day at CCX\'s roadside memorial.

Xterrah obviously has not forgotten about me. She mocked me in her February 22, 2006 post... 10 months after you took the picture.

The irony is she mocked me on the very same day that she did a silent post for a Fallen Friend.

Actions truly speak louder then words.
Mock me a year ago with yours and others regurgitated lies.

You obviously have not forgot how funny it is to mock someone who was pre-running the trip you were going on.

I bought my first 4x4 two years before you were born.

You are half my age but our daughter at age 9 thinks more about other people then you do.

I was stuck for 2 days not 4.
I got stuck in the afternoon not "the middle of the night".
A back-hoe broke a hydraulic line. It was not trying to get me out. It was trying to get 5 SUV's and 2 motorcycles out a MONTH before I was on Soda Lake. I got stuck in the filled in pit he dug.

Your "leader" would later hide in SCCX and blame me for everyone else's damage. He would call the BLM and offer SCCX's help in all the damage I caused. Just more internet boasting. It was actually NPS area. He would have known that if he had bothered to "jump thru hoops" to get the necessary permit for the Mojave Preserve. The three times I lead... we had a permit. How many times has your "leader" had a permit while leading? The same amount that he helped me. Zero.

That is why I said, "You wouldn't believe the amount of work it took for SCCX members to free my X!" The answer to that April Fools Joke is zero work... except for the cowardly pictures you took behind my back.

And you call me a jackass?

You ran like a puppy when Xtoolbox said on the radio, "We got to go. We have a schedule to keep". The person you and others would later brag about honoring on the internet... would never have left.

How was CCX's memorial service in Monterey? Oh, that's right you never went.

In your first post... you obviously think Xtoolbox was responsible for the things in the pictures. The true irony is he always took credit for the good and hides behind people when he screws up.



This was Xtoolbox driving my X on the Rubicon Trail. I told him to his face to let me post first when we got back. He agreed only to break his promise and post how he conquered the Con. Never once even mentioning me.

The next month he rolled his X because as the "leader" he was doing as he always does... leaving everyone in his dust literally. He then lied to everyone on the internet saying he sold it because it was too small. Lied to my face. Lied to my wife's face.


CALX 2000. I took unpaid time off work to go to Big Sur. That was when I first met CCX. In August 2000.

EVERYONE OF THE 35 PLUS SCCX TRIPS I WENT ON WAS UNPAID TIME OFF WORK.

I have worked weekends since May 1999.

Let me repeat that incase you missed it.

EVERYONE OF THE 35 PLUS SCCX TRIPS I WENT ON WAS UNPAID TIME OFF WORK.

I went up early. I was asked to save campsites for Xtoolbox and others. They gave me their tents to set-up. I pre-ran all the trails that day. The next day I got kicked out of the campgrounds for helping others save campsites. I spent the rest of CALX 2000 living in a campground 11 miles up the mountain, 11 miles away from the beach, 11 miles away from my wife, 4 year old daughter and in-laws and their kids. Law enforcement was called after Xtoolbox got it a altercation with the camp host.

How was CALX in 2005? Oh, thats right it never happened.

How was the 2005 SCCXmas Party? Oh, that right it never happened. I hosted the first three years.


You actually think Xtoolbox was responsible for organizing the Nissan Commercial shot? You actually think he was responsible for negotiations that got everyone $400 instead of $0? You think he was the radio relay between the director and the 30 trucks?

You really are gullible...

You actually think Xtoolbox\'s hard work got national coverage of GONEMoab? You actually think he called the editor of FourWheeler Magazine... made a appointment and visited the office to pitch coverage of the first group of Xterra's to do Moab? You actually think he got the national coverage for how good Xterra's are off road and promoted XOC?

You really are gullible...

Yea... I can see you will miss the maturity. Just look at what your newest immature member considers "off-roading".

Two out of the five BOD members have laughed off this immature action and the idiot now is proud of his new signature of The Infamous "Steeple Stepper".

WolfmanX a member of the SCCX BOD had suggested... "I like "Church Crawler", or "cross crawler". You must not eat sugar for 4 days now to make up for your wrong doings! (or what ever it is they do)."

I am considered Public Enemy Number One... but people are afraid "Steeple Stepper" will leave if someone makes him feel bad about his bad immature behavior.

Anyone who complains about SCCX's website being down gets more grief then the Infamous "Steeple Stepper".

I don't need a rubber room. Obviously SCCX is a big enough room for some people with small maturity and large egos. Why do you think Blueleader and others have left the NEW SCCX? You can bounce around in your Hawaii / SCCX room all you want. "Our entire club"? You have not even lived on the same continent as California for a year and a half. I missed 11 months because I worked every Saturday and Sunday and could no longer take off even as I had for YEARS unpaid.

The very first Sunday I can get off, (unpaid) my daughter and I go on the Last Chance Canyon Xcursion. CCCX said at the drive meeting, in the campgrounds, that he wanted me to lead the group. I declined knowing that Xtoolbox had raced ahead to the entrance to the canyon.

I got slammed for "web wheeling" with SCCX and not going on runs. Somehow it is okay for you since you have as much chance as going on runs as I do. I guess you provide a valuable service for SCCX. You moderate the SCCX section on XOC. You protect SCCX's image... our what you consider "shredding". Good Boy.

A BOD member lives near the Atlantic Ocean! Will at least he is on the same continent.

By the way the title, "Gone but not forgotten" was in reference to the OLD SCCX. I was also implying that our Xterra would be missed. I ordered it when our daughter was 2. We got it when she was 3. She is now closer to 10 then 9. WolfmanX was 16. Your so vain you probable thought this post was about something else. But it did prove your love for me and how gullible you are for April Fool's. :p

Dudeareyoufuckingkiddingme?



Let it go man.
Seriously.
Let it go.

UNPAID TIME OFF WORK
UNPAID TIME OFF WORK
(unpaid)
YEARS unpaid

Were you doing consultant work for the club? Was there someone who agreed to pay you to be a member of the club and participate in, lead or organize runs?

Is there ANYONE that gets paid by a club to "lead" or attend or even organize club runs in the entire country? I don't understand why taking time of work to go have fun and participate in an activity you love should fall on the backs of anyone but you.

It's your time and your job, if you have to work weekends and take the time off to go drive your truck without getting paid....Who cares? Don'tfuckinggo. I work weekends and I don't go on club runs.

Problem solved.

I will say that that is pretty fucked up using the steps of a church as an RTI ramp though.

Really now? I'm 34, so that makes you, what? 68? Not only have you lost touch with reality, but I see time as well.

Last I checked, Hawaii was part of the the United States. The United States is part of the North American continent. I bet your 9 year old daughter knows that.

And I retired from the BOD when I moved, even though I still own my place in San Diego and am in LA/SD at least once every other month. But you're out of it in more than one way, so you wouldn't know that.

And as far as the rest of your comments, I think it just reinforces my 'hope you find a rubber room that fits ya' comment.

It couldn't be more true.

Have fun.

I am not a moderator here or anything....but why in God's name is this thread of mud- and shit-slinging being perpetuated....especially here in the General Forum......Probably one of the first forums a potential new member or visitor would come to.

What a ridiculous display of he-said, he-said, she-said, he-said.

The Drama continues. dident you guys have this huge post here http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=18 that got deleted ? why start one here?

It started as a simple April Fool's joke only (4-1-2006 11:59PM).

Then two SCCX members pounce on me.

I am not going to lay down and take it.

Three have been publicly mocking me on another thread. Ten months after they abandoned me on the trail. I will not be mocked by low life scum.

I don't think you would put up with it either.

It was deleted after they lied then locked it with thier lies as the last word.

This thread started as a simple April Fool's joke only (4-1-2006 11:59PM).

Then two SCCX members pounce on me.

I am not going to lay down and take it.

Three have been publicly mocking me on another thread. Ten months after all three abandoned me on the trail. I will not be mocked by low life scum.

But in some crazy mixed up world I am the bad guy for protecting myself and pointing out the truth.

I don't think you would put up with it either.

lmao you are too funny Cary.

You pretend to be innocent, but you only posted this "april fools joke" to entice an argument, and give an excuse to throw around your frustrations.. what ever they may be.

I find you funny because you speak of this long lost SCCX thing that no longer exists. Yet, here we are, going out once a month, enjoying ourselves in the company of friends, working with Adopt-A-Trail and functioning as any other club. You are the only one that seems to be pissed off for what ever reason.

Relax man, have a cold one on me. Enjoy these pictures of SCCX, doing what we all love to do. Wheel.

















Yup, we are the evil empire alright.

Sorry about changing the topic, but. Nice pics.

So, uhm, how 'bout this weather?

Seriously, I agree with Southernx - nice pics.

At least this got moved to the ALR.

Thanks.

Here are some more horrible unforgivable SCCX activities:

Promoting Destination Xterra


Or fixing culverts


Or blocking off illegal side trails..


Enjoying a view.. oh god the horror!!


Helping fellow offroaders.. I know.. we are horrible! Hleping a JEEP, how could we.


Or maybe taking the fine Nissan cameramen on an Xcursion.


Or enjoying the multi-colored hills of vail lake.. I know, I prolly shouldn't have captured this horrible act.


Enjoy.

Time to jump in for shits and grins
I would be the BIGGER PERSON and ignore their posts if they were uncalled for and go about my business

Hey! now none of that bigger person stuff, it's just now getting good!

Oh yea, and nice pics

oh come on, it's fun to bait people in the ALR

There's really not much left to say, the guy is certifiable. All you have to do is read his myriad of completely obsessive posts. His demeanor is the reason he was eventually kicked out of our club.

He resurfaces once in awhile to stir the pot and illicit a reaction, but honestly, I'm not wasting one more second of my life on him. Sorry, guys!

Cary, you can have the last word. And the last word after that. And when the sour grapes bubble back up in you in another 6 months, you can have the last word then, too.

Thank you for the fond memories. I hope you enjoy your new clubs. Here's some links to get you going. But you might want to learn to spell Prius correctly before you begin entertaining them with your antics.

Have fun! Bye!

http://www.priusonline.com/
http://priuschat.com/
http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef21c65
http://www.topix.net/forum/autos/toyota-prius
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/f62

in case any one wants to read the whole story behind the church picture you can read it here: http://www.sccxterra.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2865

You know Cary, Honstly, I would love to talk with you offboard, up front, no other people to intervein.. ok my spelling sucks, I know. I want to know what it is you don't like about the club, and what you think could be done to fix it. Seriously, email me, aperion@mapforge.net, I've talked with older members before because you're right, the "old" SCCX is gone, but not forgotten, and I want to know what can be done to improve the club. I'm always open to new Ideas, and I always evaluate them as well.

As for the church picture I do feel the need to step up and speak out on behalf of one of our members. Well in truth I want to clarify what Cary has said, especially being that I was one of the two BOd that "laughed" at it, actually I did say I was appauled...

Whatever, anyways, If you think we handled it poorly, then I would like to know how to better handle it in the future. And no I didn't think kicking him out of the club was a appropriate action. Why? Because in the club he'll know WHY those kinds of activities are frownd upon, and harmfull to the offroad community, which was pointed out to him. If you read the thread you will notice that we did not condone his action. The whole nickname was my idea to give him a hard time, more a badge of shame than a badge of honor. It's humerous now because we've learned and moved on, We've all made stupid mistakes that we later laugh at, this is one of them.

Like I said I feel we handled this appropriately but maybe we could have handled it better. A couple other things,
1) Please don't call our members idiots, yes it was stupid but Davey and Elliot aren't idiots.
2) "People are afraid "Steeple Stepper" will leave if someone makes him feel bad about his bad immature behavior." Since that is refering to me I will clarify, "Tact is the ability of making a point without making an enemy." And when some one needs to be scolded you don't want to scold them so much that they rebel, but not so little they don't learn their lesson. Tact, Cary, Tact.

Thank you, have a nice day.

Any door dings from Jeep Squeeze?

I don't think a Gen2X could make that obsticle with the 2.5 inch wider stance

Chris: you're wasting your time trying to rationalize things with Cary. Trust me and others who have been around long enough to know. For the sake of the club, let it go. Cary never will, but at least we can.

I am going to take my chances here and jump in for a simple comment.

I dont know the whole story or who is at fault here...but, what I do know is that it was pretty fucked up on the entire club's behalf to leave a fellow offroader behind, its just not cool. Kinda like in the military noone gets left behind dead or alive. At least that is how the club I belong to do it. Just my $0.02

Seriously dude, you have no idea. The story goes way way waaaaaaay deeper. If you REALLY want to know what went down, give me a call:

951-551-9427

This was drawn out before over like 30 pages of posts. Will be easier to tell you over the phone or in person.

Snoopy,

Nope, never even toutched it. I'm not sure about the Gen2, that would be a really tight spot to be in. I bet going the other direction on that would be way harder. Then again I think it is a one-way only trail simply for that reason. Although the Pinyon Mountain dropoff does have a winch anchor at the top, so I can only assume people ARE going in a reverse direction.

Chris.. :rolleyes:

Didn't you see the other thread with 8 billion posts in which ALL of this was covered about seven hundred times? Shit SCCX was at the top of google for that thread.

Cary is never going to change his mind about anything. He will always twist and pick apart ANYTHING you write to use against you. Don't give him the ammunition.

And the drama continues.. Wu-Tang, Wu-Tang....

Yeah I remember that post, I think I was the one that posted up about it being #1 on google for SCCX. I also remember alot of name calling on both sides, not a very good way to handle the situation, don't you agree?

Edited to add: Sorry, I wasn't trying to feed the troll, I just wanted to clarify for other people reading what happened with the church picture.

Bottom line: the guy was offered help, but very pointedly refused it. Please don't add fuel to a fire when you're too new to the club to know better.

It's all good Chris, but let's please end this discussion now once and for all. There's absolutely no point to it or good to come from it. Thanks.

krisjon,

Dude RELAX and take your Prozac please...in case you did not read and understand

I wasn't adding fuel to the fire nor do I have anything against anyone here, nor do i want your SCCX issues to arise from the dead, it was a simple comment and that was it...dont overanalyze it and butcher it up and start talking down to me as a naive noob, I may be fairly new here in XOC, but I am not that new to going out wheeling and having fun with friends...so just RELAX, I am not trying to spark nor fuel an old issue. :rolleyes:

Wow...this has been some interesting reading.

I know Xtoolbox - he has joined us on the last couple AZ Runs, the GONE Moab Run I attended, and the commercial shoot. If he rolled his truck and didn't want to talk about it, so what? Did it hurt you? No. He probably didn't want the ridicule he knows he'd get from the vultures on this site. Wheeling up the church steps isn't using the best judgment, but it doesn't look like he hurt anything or did any damage either. Say it's immature and move on.

That said, I don't know anything else about all the SCCX drama, nor do I want to. Having experience keeping the SWANKy crew together, and hosting dozens of large runs including 6 week long AZ runs does give me my own perspective on some of the comments made, though.

On leaving people behind....we've seldom had to do this, but it has happened. If the offer to help was extended and was turned down, WTF is the rest of the group supposed to do? It's challenging leading a group of 15-20 trucks through trails and try to get everyone through in a reasonable amount of time. I've done it, and for those of you who haven't, don't underappreciate the effort. It's like herding cats.

Airing dirty laundry out on these boards serves no purpose but to generate infighting among friends and club members.

LAX, Move on. It seems most of your former club agrees that you should.

Looks like Brent got here before you.

Huh? I guess I don't get it. Must be inside XOC humor again

Relax and take my prozac? Overanalyze and butcher up what you said? Get a grip yourself.

All I asked was that you not continue conversation on an argument that:

A) is dead

and

B) you don't know enough background on to be legitimately commenting on. Not because in your words you're "a naive noob" - you just haven't been around long enough to know the backstory with the club - that's all.

How you take it is up to you.

You were adding your $.02 where it clearly wasn't needed. End of story.

rolling on the floor chortling

Classic. That's a backstory that IS funny.

...so do we now need to ask permission to voice one's $0.02 or opinions...geesh, whats next!
WOW...just WOW!

Sorry to voice it, I guess I have to be a veteran like you (883 post) to not be a noob..WOW I am short 550...sorry I will keep my mouth shut from now on...

Ok, BOTH of you need to take a chill pill. Krisjon the noob comment wasn't needed either, nor are sarcastic comebacks about post count, come on.

Ok, I'm curious about the brent story, care to share?

This is not about who has more posts, who has more wheeling experience and who's a noob. I merely said that you haven't been around club business long enough to contribute to this thread.

The point is the club's been trying to put this issue to rest FOREVER and you come in, admitting you don't know the story and say something that could potentially stir the pot again (i.e., saying essentially how messed up it is that our club purposely left someone on the trail - when we didn't).

Sure, you have a right to free speech, but why bother when you don't know the facts - and the fallout from an uniformed comment like that could hurt OUR club?

If you can give me an intelligent/rational answer to that question, then I'm all ears.

Some time videos are better than words, is this what you're talking about? Cat Herding

That's awsome =D

On the next episode of Springer… hope I don’t get a chair thrown my way but…

Perhaps the original poster (LAX) just feel likes he’s been un-appreciated or something. IMO he’s actually a decent fairly normal productive citizen IMO away from this message board.

Maybe his anger and bitterness are displaced but if I could find a way to help him or get over stuff I would so I’ll offer this one last time.

Thanks for productive things you did back then I appreciated them and hoped I told you enough.

Here are some of my favorite tips on life from L.Lipman:

Happiness
Happiness is a choice. We choose to be happy.

Attitude
Attitude is a choice. We choose our reactions.

Courage
Courage is how far you bounce after you hit bottom.

Integrity
Integrity is being honest when nobody is looking.

Commitment
Whatever were your results, were your intentions.

Blame
Blame is really "bla - me." It's not my fault!

Forgiveness
Forgiving others is not for them. It is for you.

Life's Challenges
This, too, shall pass.

Need to be Right
It is more important to be kind than to be right.

Changing People
We cannot change people... only our reactions to them.

To me the whole club thing is about the group dynamic…90% of the time it’s all good and the rest of time you just deal with stuff the best you can like life.

I could care less about individual recognition, credit, etc and would rather see a group of people or others get noticed, having a good time than me as an individual doing so. The pictures I post are a testament to that I hope. To me the good times are much better shared and some of the best times I’ve had are with different groups doing whatever, I enjoy team work and seeing people united for common interests & good times.

Case in point, since it’s been referred to please re-read my 03’ Rubicon Tested post and notice how I mention, thank the group, and even state that “LAX did a great job of driving the 'Con in his X”, that's LAX's solar yellow so he deserves the spot line & XOTW IMO.
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=001214#000000

Anyway, I’m not going rehash the other 1-6 year old stuff mentioned other than to tell LAX to read D.Casiber’s book bottom page 33 & top 34 to see where I was coming from.

I don’t need to be right and I apologize if I wasn’t kind enough or did enough in the past.

Irish toast:

Here's to you as good as you are,
Here's to me as bad as I am,
As good as you are,
And as bad as I am,
I'm as good as you are,
As bad as I am.

have i mentioned i love this shit?

seriously brian... Who stirred more shit and was a bigger pain in SCCX's collective ass, Me or Cary.

As I have stated before,

Cary let it go, I understand your frustration when it seems like you are the only person who knows what is right. But sometimes, its better to just walk away and accept that if you are right, then they must like being wrong...
and NOTHING you ever say will change that...

Then again there is the othe rline of thought... if your the only one who thinks you are right... then you must be wrong

I agree. I get my coffee in the morning, and open up XOC to see what juicy stuff is going on now.

The bottom line is simple for me. No matter what sombody posts on the "oh no" internet, I'll still be enjoying life wheeling with friends. Friendships created simply because of a similar interest in a vehicle and the strive to push that vehicle to its limits. I don't care what so and so says I did, and if it wasn't so damn entertaining, I probobly wouldn't even respond.

I feel bad for Cary because it seems as though he is holding so much anger and frustration, that he spends his days trolling the boards looking for some new thing to be angry about, or some new way to attack Brian. Get out man, go do what at least I think you used to enjoy. Life is too short to spend your days pissed at somone. Stress kills.

Cheers!

this thread sure has died down... of course maybe it's the silence before the storm, or maybe I should stir the pot a little J/K though it may be a little humerous I know it wouldn't be a wise thing to do

Say it isn't so

Dude, you don't know the whole story or who's at fault...lemme break it down for you.

Place: The outskirts of Soda Lake Endangered Lichen/Moss Area, a highly sensitive ecological study zone of great importance.

Time: 16:15, on the Lord's Day

SCCX was on a "peyote run", led by "Blue Leader", a 'Nam POW and self-proclaimed "kung fu shaman" that Jason (code name "Sleeper Hold") had met the day before and decided to study under as his sinsei. Of course, the lead vehicle was a tricked out Jeep Rubicon...only because the run was gonna get so hairy at some point that the 4x2's would just have to turn around and head home by themselves in the dark. There was no way some two wheel drive soccermommycar was gonna make it.

Cary (LAXterra) was all hopped up on Jesus and a new TV gig as the editor of "Daddy Dearest", a sitcom pilot starring Don Rickles. "It's gonna be the greatest show ever!" he said, "It'll go ten seasons and kick the shit out of that filthy Will and Grace....filthy dirty....you' just wait and see." And so fed up with the slow pace of the SCCX line, and instead of driving around the endangered moss and lichen area, he drove right fucking through it. All I remember hearing was "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!?!" over and over again on the FRS radio before I realized what was happening.

Cary hit the lake bed doing almost 70 miles an hour. He damn near made it, too, but he had it in 2WD HI, and the mud and lichen's suction was too strong. His IFS piece of shit finally succumbed. Unfortunately for Cary, a log he intentionally hit also ripped out various semi-important parts from under his vehicle....like the fucking driveshaft and shit.

Oil and grease and coolant and tranny fluid and saliva was everywhere, a total environmental fuck job. He might as well have used a couple of baby seals and a spotted owl as sand ladders while he was at it. Turns out the mixture of chemicals that Cary left on that lakebed created a supervirus that eventually destroyed all of the rare flora and fauna on the lake. Greenpeace now has a contract out on his life, and out of this fear Cary is never less than five seconds away from his lawyer.

When he finally emerged from the car, he was a big ball of frustration and blame. He said it was our fault because we goaded him with our slowness, it was the lake's fault for being too wide, it was Nissan's fault for giving him false hope in his soccermommycar's abilities to drive on dirt, and it was God's fault for creating the problem to begin with. He yelled and screamed and spit and cussed at everything within earshot for more than an hour before we could calm him down with the promise of more booze and pills.

Since none of us wanted to tow his car out of the muck, for fear we would get stuck ourselves, and also wanting no part of this environmental holocaust, we convinced him to call a tow truck. He had cell phone reception, and he opted to call his wife to let her know he was going to be late.

He accidentally speed-dialed his work instead, and when his boss answered the phone, he assumed his boss was at his house, fucking his wife. "JUDAS!!!" he screamed over and over again in the phone. "UNGRATEFUL JUDAS!!!! I'LL KILL YOU!!! I'LL KILL YOU YOU SON OF A WHORE!!!" He smashed his cell phone into bits, and then he doubled over in a seizure of unconsolable grief, sobbing and muttering "Helen...Helen no...oh my sweet Helen....how could you..."

This went on for about thirty minutes, before he would allow us to touch him. We rubbed his back for a minute or two and assured him there was an explanation, that everything would be all right. "Sure", he said, "you're right. I'm okay now. I'm okay."

He went to the back of his truck and produced a large Estwing axe, walked over to his wheels, and chopped gaping holes in the sides of his General Grabber tires. We were powereless to stop him. "What the hell are you doing?" he was asked. "I'm staying here!" he yelled, " I like it here! I'm gonna stay here and have a new life! You get away from me, you perverts! Go on! Get out of here! Leave me alone!!!" He was swinging the axe wildly, and so we backed off towards our own vehicles.

When he was asked if he at least had water and food, he picked up a big clump of oil- and coolant-contaminated mud and ate it down, making a contorted, pain-riddled face before forcing a gaping, muddy smile. "See," he said, "how a man can LIVE OFF THE LAND? You don't know how to live off the land, because you weren't Scouts! You lazy perverts! Scumbags! I'm gonna live off the land! LIVE OFF THE FAT OF THE LAND!!!" The decision was made to leave him there, for our own safety and others' as well.

Two days later, he was picked up by six illegal alien migrant workers travelling in a beat up '79 Toyota Corona, which they drove on to the lake, and which towed Cary's lifeless Xterra to the road with the rope they used to secure down their hood. Since they didn't speak English, and Cary doesn't speak Spanish, they couldn't understand his muted racist epithets towards them. They droped him off at the nearest police station, where it was discovered that there was a Missing Persons report filed in his name.

He was remanded to the custody of his wife, where he assured her that he would never leave her side again. Ever. To this day, he has never spoken to her about her "affair". Once in a while he slaps her real hard, though, just to let her know he's still there.

Cary comes back to XOC from time to time, when the med combinations aren't working, to remind us of our own transgressions and shortcomings. He's a good editor, good at taking a whole thing and just paring it down to just what he wants to see or hear. A professional turd-polisher, if there ever was one.

So VG33POWER, now you know the story in full, dude. Now you can pass all the judgment, make all the remarks, have all the opinions, because you are in the know. You are in the inner circle.

Welcome.

Magnum fucking opus.

Wow.

umm ok...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! You can say that again!

That gets my vote for post of the year, Shahram.
Fucking brilliant.

"He might as well have used a couple of baby seals and a spotted owl as sand ladders while he was at it"

Brilliant!.....

Oh yeah. Classic!

Shahram, dude, you read too much Hunter S Thompson. Seriously, though, you have a knack for it. You should write more often.

Great damned story!

But why is it called Soda Lake....Is there Pepsi in it? Coke? Dr. Pepper? Or Sierra Mist? Not trying to be a smartass....I just want the whole picture painted. Can lichen grow in Pepsi? Were there baby seals present he could have used if he saw fit? A spotted owl? Was the axe shiny new....or did it show evidence of other maniacal episodes? Has the axe been to Brentwood? You may want to check on that, I think OJ's still looking? Did the "living off the land" cause gastronomical distress? Did the young man develop the painful poops? C'mon.....details....WE NEED DETAILS, MAN!

that was fantastic...it should forever live on as a mark of Shahram's Brilliance

I don't think I have read so much un-castrated steer defecation in my life. :rolleyes:

Since I work the entire Memorial Day Weekend... next week I will set the record straight. If anyone even cares about the truth anymore...

Not really. You seem to be the only one continuing this thread.

Let it go man the last post here was a month ago.

Save your breath, Cary. Everyone's heard "the truth" enough in your other hundred posts on the subject. Posting it again just reinforces the truth of you needing to let it go - right or wrong. Having the last, last, last, last, last word isn't going to change anything.

Please lock this thread and ban LAXterra so this dead horse can finally be burried!!!

Sharam you Rule

wow...fucking wow...

HOLY SHIT!!!!

how the fuck did i miss this till now...

thanks dick head, there is now coffee all over my new laptop.

EDITED: oh god, i got a side cramp from laughing so hard re-reading this, my dogs think i'm nuts...

HAHAHAHAAHAH

DING DING DING.

AMEN Brother Krisjon...

can i get a "praise jesus"

ok you bastards... I just woke my kids and re-covered my recently cleaned laptop with coffee

That is F'n great!

Shahram in '08!

Work, not work, paid, not paid,after reading this wonderful thread the original poster has some serious work and money issues. And he wanted to share them with us. How special.

I call tenth to pile on the dead thread. Yeah me. :p

I didn't realize a castrated steer defecation was different from an un-castrated steer...

BTW the "truth" is always infallible, it's always black and white, truth is not an opinion or what you might think or perceive, truth is pretty much absolute. So do try to separate opinions from truth, if you can't then yes you are disillusioned, oh yeah and acknowledge that other people might have had a different perspective/understanding on the situation than you did, this something known as a "misunderstanding" which can only be resolved by acknowledging it.

Umm...

That's just a nicer way of saying, "Bull Shit", since a castrated bull is called a steer...

:rolleyes:

I can't believe I'm missed this entire thread, thanks for brightening my Monday morning.

Yeah, Jaime...we're all eagerly awaiting LAXterra's next revelation so Sharam can entertain us some more.

ahhh Thanks for the ummm steer/bull clarification...

Am I the only one actually looking forward to the entertaining list of garbage that Cary is about to throw out? C'mon guys, we need more campfire stories!

Bring it on.

This has been very amusing to follow . . . eagerly awaiting the next chapter.

no, You're not the only one following it. Although in general I don't like to see people get ragged on, but every now and then some one doesn't seam to learn from previous attempts/mistakes and then they usually get what they had comin to em, such as Wenzel...

Of course the thing that really pisses me off is the low blows and Jabs Cary tries to pull, like in Xtoolbox's Old school meets new… thread. I mean seriously, what does the church picture have to do with Brian's thread, and why do you pull that picture when obviously you do not understand what went on your self, even though you got the picture from the original thread.

There are alot of people pissed at you to no fault but your own.

You exterra owners sure bitch like a bunch of chicks.

Perhaps it's because most Xterra owners ARE chicks, and it's a crazy voodoo chick-vibe that has us all in a bitchy mood?

I find it funny how never once at ANY actual in-person event or gathering have I ever even detected the slightest hint of an argument. Throw a computer in front of somone though, and everybody is a tough guy.

How did I miss the "old school meets new" one? That was a nice diversion.

As for the Frontier owner's comments: I've owned 3 Datsun/Nissan trucks over the years, even back then I would have found this stuff amusing. Don't think it's an X thing. Maybe I'm just easily amused.

Guess I should get back to work now.

Sounds like someone's got IFS...that crampy, not-so-fresh feeling from a lack of articulation and stubby, bloated control arms.

Time for...

I'm new to the SCCX but I think this is great stuff. It's good to keep alive the Club's heritage so it can be passed to new members.

Shahram will be playing here all week.

LOL. I am actually scrounging around for an axle right now. Quit reading my mind you freak!

Hey, I'm just glad someone noticed the "IFS Formula" on the box of Midol. That took me like thirty seconds with the ol' Photochopper. Good to see the hard work ain't wasted on you søkkermømmikardrivinbitsches. That's Danish for AWESOME DUDES, by the way.

What do you have against Danes, jackass?? That was pretty good ... I'm going to go hop in my "Awesome Dude" IFS rig now.

damn soccer moms and their 2wd IFS mall cralwers on 37's...



:rolleyes:

Shahram's humor is indeed hard to follow, but trust me Chris, he is totally and completely full of shit. It's like one of those date movies, so stupid it's gut busting funny. No matter how many times your mind says "hey this is completely retarded, you are killing my brain cells damnit!" You stay glued to it. Shahram's bullshit should be classified as a controlled substance. I can't tell you how many times I read the famous "explanation" post, nearly choking on my own blood and vomit I was laughing so hard.

He lives for the reaction. Kinda like your post above

I just read this whole thing in one sitting. Dude. I mean, dude. Dude. Whoa. What's up Brian? Hope you and the kids had fun at Moab. We missed you on the runs at X Champs. Glad you made it home safe. Is this the part where we talk about Leggos? Did I misspell Leggos? Did I misspell misspell? Dude...

I know Shahram is being humerous, but I just don't find that kind of humor very funny, perhaps I'm a tight ass or what ever but I dind't find the "explanation" funny at all, it was crass, rude, insulting and only serves to insult some one else, and well tactless. But hey other people find it funny, so whatever, it's just not my cup of tea.

Yep.. you're a tight ass

Hey, at least you can't say I'm in denial

In other words,

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!

I'll see your Hello Kitty and raise you a Spongebob.

Okay,

We have to lock the thread right there.

Hello Kitty and Spongebob; can't top that.

dude!! RedX what happened to the gay sponge bob picture you USED to have up there? pick the wrong one from your collection?

LOL.....Yep! So many Spongebobs.....so little time.

This thread is starting to show some potential again....

Fixed it for ya...

No Ty, you rule

what can I say...except I'm honored!

How you handle 2 "members" as a BOD member shows the direction the club is heading. How the BOD and other members react to input shows the direction the club is heading. Xtoolbox was just empowered by Steeple Stepper. As far as "evidence that we are just trying to cover up Brian's actions". The dog pile and ignoring the Request BOD Action thread facts says it all. The fact that it was locked then deleted... that is the direction the club is heading.




He did make a SCCXcuse. You missed it because it was a edit of his first post. It gave him a chance to break the photo link that myself, you and others have quoted. He is trying to cover his tracks. You... Chris are already making Xcuses for him. :rolleyes:

The funny thing is the church steps are also "street accessible". Another funny thing is the level of deception. "... being used by bikers and joggers the day I was there to go along the path".

The thing he never mentioned... therefore the deception is the joggers and bikers could have actually been on the bike path ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DOMINGUEZ CHANNEL!




Chris... if you are "just pulled up into a drive way just before a gate" you are no longer on the public street. If you are not on a public street but parked in my driveway you are trespassing.

So you tell me... what was the reason. Why was it taken away from SCCX and given to a Toyota Club? Not a deception like Xtoolbox spews out.. but the truth... no little white lies... the truth... even if it makes the club look bad. Don't pick your words. The truth.

My posts are meant to get the club to step-up to the plate. Xtoolbox has gone unchecked for nearly 7 years. It was a mistake by Blueleader, Y2K and myself that we let him slide. All it did was empower him to get away with more. I pointed out all the rules he broke. It is ignored just like just about every By-Law the club has. He will do anything to be the center of attention. He could have just taken a picture of the building from the sidewalk. Instead he parked illegally so he could get his Xterra in the shot.

"I've invited you to talk with me in private, via email, or phone but you havn't taken me up on that offer." So give me a call. The number is on the website. Your clubs website. Just like the membership application that you never filled out... it's on there. Your a BOD member... you should know the clubs website inside out. Not directed to the club... but to you. By-Laws are not obeyed and are on track to be gutted out.

http://www.sccxterra.com

"he saved people by protecting them, even those that didn't want to be protected..."

I agree...

P.S. So Chris... had my response half written out... went to pick our kid up from school... get home... wrote the rest. Clicked on . Thread gone! Then I find it here locked. So... the above is my answer... now on this thread.

So Chris... if you need any more "cold hard evidence" to meet your standards just let me know.

I guess in the words of Jack... You can't handle the truth. :p

Wow.. just, wow.

Well....Damn! I though this thread was all about Hello Kitty and Spongebob.....But it sounds like it's all serious and shit..... :p

Is Gerardo looking for Al Capone's lost bank vault again or something?

I’ll give you a hint… there’s a commonly used right away on the side I was on with open access that’s used for a variety of purposes while on the other side there is no suitable place and locked gates. Not that it matters (my original “cover-up” photos are still posted in the thread below BTW I just happen to move them from one folder to a new one) but I’m not parked at those pin sticks

BTW LAX thanks for the maps and photos to prove my point but did you get permission from MTA to use their symbol, cut paste their map, host them in your photo album, etc or how about those aerial photos?
http://www.mta.net/about_us/copyright.htm
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/CBATMA/Xterra/BikeAccessPoint.png
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/CBATMA/Xterra/DominguezChannel_BikePath.png

I’ve been pretty patience and nice but have to get into the ALR once in while to keep my “bad boy” reputation in tack

oh burn!

And the saga continues.....

Chris wanted proof... he got proof... proof that you will do and say anything to get OUT of something...

Did you get permission from the City Of Los Angeles to start a SCCX using their computers? http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/nissanxterraclubhouse/message/1210?l=1

"...there's a commonly used right away on the side I was on with open access that's used for a variety of purposes"

Xtoolbox... your deceptive language is constantly amazing to me. Commonly used for what? Drug deals? Homeless housing? Illegal dumping? Underage drinking? You said, "... being used by bikers and joggers the day I was there to go along the path".

Really...

can't stop lying can you? Oh Chris... were are you? Come listen to his latest? Ask him to tell us were he actually is. This should be good. This should prove once and for all he is exactly what I have said he is!

Got to take our daughter to school in the morning but I will be sure to stop by Star Bucks (hope I didn't copyright infringe by mentioning their name) get a Venti and see what new deception he comes up with this time. :rolleyes:

You've kept an email that xtoolbox sent out in 1999 only to pull it out now to make a point? Holy sh*t, Cary...you've hit a whole new level. If I were Brian, I'd be looking into a restraining order.

And all this time you keep trying to convince everyone that this about the "truth" and not that you're just obsessed and crazy. Keep up the good work. Here's another post for your files.

How much unpaid time off have you sent writting this stuff?

MMOOOOMMMM!!! he's on my side!!!!!

MMOOOOOMMMMM!!!! he's touching me!!!!!

MMOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!! he looked at me funny!!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

jeez you guys! great way to spend your life Cary, one of these days you will convince us all........no really.

It's quite obvious what's going on here.

If you look at the first photo, it is quite obvious that it is a book depository:



Or is it?

This series of pictures shows what we all can agree is a grassy knoll the day of the shooting.



This is the same grassy knoll as it looks today.





Now looking at this overview one thing becomes quite clear to everyone:



Brian was the lone gunman in the Kennedy assasination.

Or was he........?

Chris didn't ask you to break the law Cary.. shame on you trying to get out of it that easy and shift blame to somone else.

This thread has more lives than Rasputin!

he is obbsessed... to a fault.

and i think he would be better off walking away... It's hard though, I have been there and the situation appears to be the same as it ever was...

he makes a fairly valid point.... it is just an ugly point no one has ever been willing to deal with... Cary is as much to blame for the shit he is now claiming to want to fix as anyone else is...

Still waiting for that apology Cary...

but if you all want Cary to go away... Just be stand up guys and don't hide the ugly shit, ban or suspend members who violate laws or trail ethics/safety and defame the club... at least i think that is what he is asking and from my experience with other clubs it seems reasonable...

---and with that i will go back to lurking on this thread---

PS: Cary didn't save an email... that was the message that started SCCX, back in nov of 1999. before XOC we all hungout on yahoo clubhouse(now yahoo groups) this is why the 'clubhouse' here is called the 'clubhouse', knowing your club history helps.

Perhaps this was really Brian:

Well I guess I didn't dig(like Xtoolbox did) and find buried copyright information.

No one asked Xtoolbox to break the law or SCCX's worthless by-laws.

"shift blame to somone else". Well logic man... which came first?

Unlike the which came first the chicken or the egg question... this one has a provable answer.

Unlike myself... Xtoolbox had these words staring him in the face in April.



Try using your copyright SCCXcuse for the above picture.
:rolleyes:

Chris Ritchey... can you see through the smoke screen?

I don't think SCCX has hidden anything. If you can prove otherwise, be my guest.

It's up to the Board of Directors to decide what does and does not warrant a ban, based on the club by-laws, and there isn't much more to be said about that. The general membership voted the BOD in and can vote them out if they don't like how the club is being run.

Cary is just pissed because he thinks things should be run a certain way (which would be kicking half the members out if he had his way) and the current BOD has a different view.

His problem with Brian is some deep seeded hatred and it is most obviously becoming obsessive.

But alas, it is quite entertaining.

We all know who was really driving. Don't we Brian?

Dude, re-read this thread. Talk about hypocritical. You have dug, fabricated, and spent hours and hours formatting these attacks on various people with everything from forum posts dating back to 1999 to four year old pictures to google maps to three year old phone conversations to personal conversations to copyright laws to state and park laws, so on and so forth.

Just who is the one digging here? When sombody turns around and gives you a taste of your own medicine you act like your shit doesn't stink.

It's sad.

Brian, perhaps you can point us in the right direction?

MBNWS (Last Picture)
I did apoligize. You forgot.





Are you still upset I didn't get you her in the flesh? :p

Ok, how the BOD handles even just two of it's members is a reflection of the club. Do you disagree with oh we've handled the church steps incident? You've obviously read the thread can my x come to church with me? . So you know how we handled it. Do you think we handled it poorly? if so why? you've never answered that question, of how did handle the position poorly. And you know why we didn't just kick him out of the club.

So I want to know, how have we handled these two members poorly? And please avoid comments like "Xtoolbox was just empowered by Steeple Stepper." without showing evidence that he is. Like teachers always said about writing a story, Show me, don't tell me.

Cary if your going to refer to a thread you need to provide a link so we know what you're talking about. There has been no threads requesting BOD action that has been ignored, we are discussing by-laws on our board right now but they have certainly never been ignored. And most certainly nothing has been locked and deleted from the SCCX forums. And if any discussion was to talk place on XOC about the BOD by the club I would request that those involved in the discussion would move it to our own forums. And if your talking about the thread where you claimed brian was trespassing, then that isn't on SCCX and none of the BOD have control over this forum, because it isn't SCCX.

You are acting as if I've lied to in the past Cary, you act as if I have something to hide. And my philosphy is that if I have something to hide then it should be revealed so it can be corrected. The reason we aren't the host for 3N08 is that Jason (Xterrer) moved to NJ and when he moved there was a communication break down between Greg and the Club. So it was given a new host. There's the truth as told to me by Greg Hoffman.

Ok, you're right Cary the bike path is on the otherside of the Channel. But the way brian phrased his sentence he never said he parked on the path, which yes I would have a problem with. When I read brians response, I read that brian was there to go jogging or biking, and parks in an area that is used by other people when they wish to use the path.

It makes sense and fits, and I come to this conclusion based on the pictures you provided. If you look at your photographs there is a bike path access fromt he street, however there in no place to park on the same side of the channel as the bike path. So on the other side there was a place to park, which was where the picture in question was taken. That in it's self doesn't mean it's legal to park there, doesn't mean it isn't. Were there no parking signs? no trespassing signs? If Brian is really tresspassing wouldn't the boundry need to clearly marked, with a fence or some such? If so wouldn't have to be past the fence in order to be considered tresspassing? if he really is trespassing why don't you report him, like you should?

You want me to beleive it when you say that Brian was trespassing, provide me this: A picture of the area where brian was parked, with signs clearly showing posted no tresspassing signs. and I'm not talking about signs that indication youa aren't supposed to park on the street (which he obviously isn't. Show me that and I'll beleive Brian was trespassing, if you can't provide that for me I will beleive that brian wasn't trespassing. That's pretty black and white Cary, do or don't.

[edit] because more was posted when I wrote this up

This does not include the area where brian was parked, plus this isn't from the same area, which you can tell provided by your own pictures. There are no building in the arial photographs you've provided by google earth (I assume) NO are there any at that location on google maps . If there is a gate near the road on the same side of Victoria that brian was on there is nothing but trees behind the fence. your picture clearly shows concrete building behind the fence. Furthermore, your picture doesn't show the area brian parked in.[/edit]

Brian's Roll.

Logan's Roll.

those are the first two that come to mind... yes they were A WHILE AGO, but the situation appears to be the same...
Information that could have helped educate countless thousands on this board... was withheld or covered up.

Brian just skipped over his little incident in his trip review... never even mentioned it... then a while later told everyone he sold his x. it wasn't a lie... but a HUGE ommission... supported and condoned by the club.

Logan's case was a bit different, not many people knew what happened... but those that did OKed the cover up and said logan pulled over to the side of the trail to let someone by and the edge gave way... that is a bit different than hauling ass, loosing control and landing with a wheel(or two) dangling off the edge.

in both cases it was covered up by those in the know, information that could have helped others.

Hell, excuses were even made for Axle's roll-over... instead of just admitting he was going too fast(yes, ANY speed was probably too fast for the conditions) excuses were made.

right.. .and that's a good thing... when i had my run in with the BOD, i was told by Cary over the phone, "you're like a guy walking into a crowded room with a hand grenade... you may want to lead a coup and vote in a new BOD, but I won't step aside, I invested too much money in this to just step aside" and that was about right and probably some of the issue now... The BOD did get one minor change from my incident... they added a 2wd owner... which showed that they realized i was right, even though NO ONE ever admitted i was right in thinking the club was shifting in a non-2wd friendly manner and no one veer offered an appology... that's why i was bitter for a long time.. and a bit obsessed like Cary... No one admitted they were wrong.

Wait... Blue Leader did, but only privately... but he did tell me he thought the rest of the BOD were insane and it meant a lot... thanks BL.

yes, yes it is

lol, didn't know it was an appology... just thought it a peace offering...

my bad, i guess

Come on man, that was before 99% of the current club was even here. It was before the time of any of the current BOD I'm almost positive.

How can you say the situation is the same? Where is the proof of this? What have we covered up? Do you have even one example that can be proven?

that was what i said... they were the first that came up and "shining" examples of brian hiding things.

that's it.

cary seems to think these sorts of things still go on... i wouldn't know... thankfully.

That reminds me! Did I ever tell you guys about the time that Cary brought his family up to Colorado in the middle of winter for a relaxing getaway?



Cary gets very stressed out from time to time, and he sometimes has to go away to relax and regroup, to focus on the task at hand.

"All Work And No Play Make Jack A Dull Boy"...right Cary?

While I don't agree with people covering up rolls and accident, that's still their decision. As far as I know no rules/laws are being broken when someone rolls their truck. If they're emberassed by it then thats them, let them be. Respect their wishes, as long as they're not breaking the law.

If you look at the map, there is no disputing the fact that there is a black dot marking the city of Roswell, New Mexico.



We all know that Brian drives a black Xterra. Ergo, it is quite obvious that Brain was and is behind the coverup of the alien crash that took place there.

Care to shed some light Brian?



Hummmmm......

You can't hide any longer.

Don't you mean this?

Hmmm, there's a black dot on the map, Brian Drives a black Xterra and named it Blackhawk... By Golly I think we're on to something here!!

And if you look at that map.....you will also see a "Truth or Consequences" as well as a "Logan".....Coincidence?

I think not

OK, thats a really weird name for a town... even better, "Truth or Consequences is along the black range... must be a conspiracy though becaue the black range isn't written in black.

On a side note: I Got the see original Darth Vader helmet when I was at the Los Cruces for some training a the White Sands Missile Range.

I hear lithium comes in cherry flavored chewable tablets now.

I said "words". I knew the background was different. It's not a building by the way. It's the 110 Freeway. The sign above is across the street (west/north side)... but I could take that picture without trespassing myself. The sign said the same as the one in the picture below.

Check his location on google maps again. East of the freeway. Just to the right of the High Power Tower.

Do you see in the above picture were he was parked? Parked on the Los County Public Works access road. NOT a public parking lot. The illegally dumped concrete was just out of his foreground. See the concrete in your Google Map?

FYI his location was:
033 Degrees 51 Minutes 40.96 Seconds North.
118 Degrees 17 Minutes 03.05 Seconds West.

In your Google map it clearly shows were people could park on a public street(just west of the freeway). People who didn't NEED to get thier vehicle in a picture. :rolleyes:

It is were I parked when I walked to provide you with the "cold hard evidence". Notice the High Power Tower in the background... on Xtoolbox's side of the freeway.


BTW... I am starting to cough from the smoke screens today in this tread. Someone call the AQMD. :p

Forgot his orginal picture was in another thread. Here it is to reference what I was talking about.

Wow Carry, I'm actually quite impressed, I wasn't expecting you provide those. Kudo's to you. But don't you think the no trespassing would only refer to the area behind the gate/fence since that is the marked area?

[edit]
You must work/live real close to that place.

ok two things...

1. i think being behind the gate might be a bit worse than in front of... yes technicaly it may not be legal to park in front of it either, but JESUS FUCKING CHRIST cary!!!! That's nit picking a bit isn't it... I mean i bet 99% of the people on this board would do the same thing.

2. Um... Cary... Kudo's on getting the pics, but I hope you had a remote right there or something because from your house to the Nissan building is about twice as far as it is from my house to the building and I never would have driven there just to get those pictures.

I seriously doubt and Officer would do any thing about it, and I can imagine a Judge would throw it out as a waste of time.

yes and a bad one... especially in Logan's case... because in covering it up they basicly demonstrated to people that you should not pull over very far if you have to let Motorcycles pass and tryed not to discuss the real cause... excessive speed.

Just please, in the future when something goes wrong... own up to it and everyone can learn from it... a little embarassment is nothing compared to what you will feel if you don't offer your wisdom and someone ends up dead.

last time the roll over disclosure discussion came up, in retaliation i got blasted for a stupid incident i had been involved in... funny thing is... the only reason anyone knew about it wa sbecause i got home and immediately posted here... i have never again gone out alone. I shared my experience for all to learn from... Black Ice on a narrow steep mountain trail is not a good thing... being prepared for it is.

yeah pretty much.

Uhm, Brian?



Care to explain?

I should also say that the owner of a property can allow some one access to the an area marked no trespassing. I think if you really want to be strict about this one should contact the county public works and see if they want to press charges, if not they've esentially said it was ok for Brian to be there.

Logan? Pffffft!!!

Last words I ever heard Logan say to me were, "Don't worry about it! Follow me!" And then took off down the 7+ rated Coyote Cyn. trail doing about 15 mph, bouncing and slamming metal to rock--in a borrowed Xterra.

Between the way I saw him drive (twice--once in the borrowed Xterra, after getting his FUCKING VOLVO stuck on the trail), and the way he acted with the club afterwards, I knew to write that bag of nuts off--I have little patience for crazy hot chicks, and much much less for crazy old hairy dudes.

If it means anything at all (who am I kidding, I know it doesn't!), this exact type of bullshit is what threw me off, not from SCCX, but from the whole group 'wheeling thing altogether. Don't get me wrong, I had a great time with SCCX on the runs I attended, with little exception, but I began to hate the idea that every move was being nitpicked by assholes with nothing better to do than point fingers and begrudge.

I hated the idea that my jokes could be misconstrued, that sensitivities could be stepped on, that people would misunderstand things, or blow them out of proportion, and that these words and actions would be recorded, re-examined and used as ammunition to point out my transgressions or lack of morals. Hell, I've got a wife for that shit!

I got my truck to escape the legions of jerkoffs that plague my stultified urban life, not to bring them 'wheeling with me.

Thanks to certain members of SCCX, I have learned a valuable lesson...like rattlesnakes and the brown acid, 4x4 clubs are best avoided.

Come on, you gotta get a real red neck vehicle to do that, which the X can't claim, not with most of the X's never having touched dirt.

lol, yup... sounds about right...

like attempting to go up Odessa at dusk with only his Frontier and me and Krisjon as passengers... this was his "short cut" to get to stranded people on Doran... !!!!!!!! it was fun... but really, really stupid... some of the noises i heard that evening as his frontier literally FLEW up that trail were almost beyond description... almost like dropping a bowling ball into a Trash Dumpster... Over and over and over and over..... we ended up wasting about 30 minutes... I'll give him credit... we got 3/4 of the way but by then it was dark and going down was a lot easier than going up.... it was also a lot faster!!!!

Yup... I go out and have a good time with a couple friends... but the formalities get a bit old.

Nuh-uh! According to some on this board, they've taken their IFS Soccermommycars places where my FJ8o would pee-pee in its leather pants! With the step rails on!

lol, best yet Patrick

Dude, that's two Nicholson references in two pages!

You're gonna OVERJACK the thread, man!

uh-huh! nuh-uh! uh-huh! nuh-uh!

Yeah, well there's alot of nut job on this forum, alot of people can't imagine how a 2wd would be used for offroading, no I'm not making reference to your 2wd IFS medicine posted earlier.

There are probably even more people that think their X could go more places than my Samurai. There are places I've taken my Sammurai up hills in 2wd I need to stop and put the X in 4lo for. pft indeed. Unfortunately the XOC community is not a group of open minded people, for the most part.

Actually 3 total for the thread. :p
Call the AQMD.

Or maybe the FAA...
we have a HIJACKING.

no... that would be a HIGHJacking

Great, Cary, now that you're here...

We've all heard the how, when, who and what of your reasons for re-hashing this ball of feces into new threads, new arguments, new discussions...

Can you tell us why?

I'm not fucking around, I actually do wanna know.

In most places in the world it is considered impolite to mock someone after you abandon them(with the exception of maybe Everest) over 10 months earlier. :rolleyes:

In most places(with the exception of Las Vegas) it is considered a kangaroo court when judges are prejudice. :rolleyes:

Below low blow posted February 22, 2006 01:28 AM
Source for above: http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002316



Start of source for above:

My direct response(s)
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002316;p=4

In most places in the world it is considered impolite to mock someone after you abandon them(with the exception of maybe Everest) over 10 months earlier. :rolleyes:

In most places(with the exception of Las Vegas) it is considered a kangaroo court when judges are prejudice. :rolleyes:

Below low blow posted February 22, 2006 01:28 AM
Source for above: http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002316



Start of source for above: http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002316;p=2

My direct response(s)
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002316;p=4

{Edited to fix stray qoutes}

So, you go on these tirades because you were the straight man in your own sad, comedic odyssey?

C'mon, every time you steadfastly research and re-hash and re-examine and bring stuff up, it only makes you look more the joke, not less. Laugh it off, let it slide, learn, go on and do your own thing.

I'm sorry--is it not funny to you? Even after all this time you fail to see the humor in your plight? 'Cause I don't see anyone else cryin' about it.

Cary, lemme give you the same bit of advice I learned the hard way at my bachelor party:

Sometimes you're the guy laughing at the guy getting whipped in the balls with his own belt by the crackhead stripper, and sometimes you're the guy getting his balls whipped with his own belt by the crackhead stripper.

You can have that one. I learned that one the hard way, so that you don't have to. I'm kinda like Jesus, only fat...and muslim, but we're both black, so...whatever, it doesn't matter. What I'm tryin' to say is that right now, you're the butt of the joke. You will continue to be the butt of the joke until...

a) you lay low, and it blows over
b) someone else goofs bigger than you
c) you laugh it off, let it slide, and everyone gets sick of bringing it up
d) Armaggedon

In any case, you've made a nice niche for yourself as XOC's wacky tinfoil hat guy. Don't like it? Don't show up. Hang out at Pirate4x4 or any of the myriad 'wheeling websites. There's plenty of space on the great big internet, and you're obviously good at researching. I'm sure you can find a website that suits you.

you forgot one:

e) you become the search nazi and everyone hates you instead of laughing at you...

could work, but i think in the search nazi hierarchy 'there can be only one'

a) I did lay low for 6 month after realizing either people don't care about the truth or they are could careless about anyone other then themselves.
b) I would considering rolling a bigger goof.
c) I don't know about you but I don't go thru life being a door mat for everyone to wipe their feet on. :rolleyes:
d) Armageddon... isn't that the projected date that SCCX will not bend or out right break rules/laws with double speak (SCCXcuses).

So... Shahram... you know Xtoolbox's wife's name is Helen?
So... Shahram... you know that Hunter S Thompson shot himself in the head?
Yes... Shahram... you really ARE the poster boy for SCCX!




If were you I would apply to join the SCCX BOD. They should have a opening to fully utilize your talents.

That who Shraham reminds me of... Kurgan.

So.. what your are REALLY saying, is that you are still pissed that you got stuck, and then refused help?

Or is it just that everybody found out how you, yes YOU could have screwed up by going out to the MOJAVE desert ALONE.

Nobody forced you to refuse help. And don't kid yourself, you DID refuse help, as can be verified by SCCX and non-SCCX members, including first hand witness from third party individuals with no connection to SCCX.

Boy, we are going to have HOURS of entertaining Cary talk this weekend in Big Bear. The campfire stories will be ripe with tales of your insanity.

Just like you saying this is a campfire...

... your perspective of the truth is warped. Just like your dad Xtoolbox Sr. :p you twist the truth and leave out details that make the story fit your needs to stomp on me.

Hey Chris Ritchey... Xtoolbox said he was not parked were I said he was. I think I have proved who was telling the truth.

Think about it... do you think someone who abandoned someone would actually admit it. Someone who hid his own roll over.

Gezz Just when things looks like they were settling down the acusations start flying down and neither side has any understanding that, HOLY SHIT, THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY BE WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING!! And heaven forbin the possibility of missconunication between the two parties.

And Laughing it off and moving on it's about letting people walk over you like a door mat. It's being the bigger man and not having to prove to the other that your penis is bigger than their.

Both Jason and Cary, don't you guys think it's time to move on? Time to stop making comments like "tales of [Cary's] insanity." Time to stop using phrases like SCCXcuses, or Jab's at the BOD.

Cary, do you understand why Xterrah made that poster? I'm not trying to get you to agree with the poster, just to understand why people got upset with you?

I can understand that being left stuck in the mud sucks big time, I'd hate to imagine being stuck out in the wild for any length of time, which is why you should never travel alone. Do you also not realize that this argument has boiled down to two sides un willing to budget of give any credit to what the other side is saying? Or even give thought to the idea that what happened could have been a communication breakdown between two parties? Put the past behind you, move on with your life, go wheeling, whatever.

And if by some miracle either party can't move on, at least discuss it in a civil manner, no name calling, not insults, upfront and honest. Treat each other the way you want to be treated, treat each other with dignity and respect even though you don't think they deserve it. Also try to look at it from the other peoples perspective.

please, I don't have a point to prove, I don't have an ego to massage. I just want the bickering to stop and for both parties to bury the Hatchet and make peace.

And Jason, I don't think there will be any camp side stories of Cary's Insanity in Big Bear. we can discuss the problems reiterate our views and our understanding, but if name calling is resorted to those people involved will not be invited to the next Xcursion. That's not the BOd as a whole's decision, just mine because I know it needs to be done for the club's sake.

I've said it before Cary, show me, don't tell me. if he did it wasn't in this thread, and it's not my responsibility to look for it.

I've been reading this and all I know is that this argument in the thread makes the most sense to me so far.

Oh you mean this fire? The one in the middle of the desert on the outskirts of 29 Palms?



Do you even know where that was? When that was? How windy it was? The fire risks in the area? The fire restrictions in the area?

No.. you pull that out of your hat at random.

Chris, I don't need to prove anything to anyone. Who is flying off the handle now eh? Have you not realized that I reply on purpose? Do you not see what a joke this thread has become?

How can you honestly take this so seriously?

Oh yes, there WILL be stories, many many stories... oh wait no I mean, there will be many talks and efforts to re-evalute the comical value Cary's posts have on XOC as a whole, and also discuss in detail, the unconventional borderline mentally disturbed methods of making a point Cary has. There.. more politically correct?

Saying Cary may be mentally insane isn't name-calling. It's an amateur diagnosis.

Edited for spelling

So Chris Ritchey... read the trail bosses report. Notice anything that doesn't make sense? Notice who "didn’t want our help". Don't even think about using your "miscommunications" Xcuse.

Source: http://www.sccxterra.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2344&start=60&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Through the sands of time... these are...

Actually it seems that the two stories agree with eachother. The only story that is out of place is yours. Very interesting indeed.

Also, don't forget that Toolbox was not on the lake where the help was refused. He was at the rock pile with the rest of the crew, he only heard us report that you had refused our help, and heard you blare obscenities over the radio. There were four witnesses to Cary refusing help.

1) myself
2) Chris West -> driver of Frontier
3) Richard from NCCX -> driving a granite Xterra
4) One other person from SCCX -> name slips my mind driving a yellow X.

Also Cary and the two "recovery crew" guys. All stories agree with eachother except Cary's. Hmmm the truth doesn't seem such a mystery.

WolfmanX... here is your chance to be truthful.

Please say what you said over the radio to Xtoolbox about connecting Xterra's together for a solid anchor.

I know you have a conscience in there somewheres. You called my wife at 9:10 PM that night to see if I got out.

Please say what Xtoolbox's response to your good idea was.

Ok, exact log of events as I remember them:

1) Line of SCCX xterras nears Soda lake, under the assumption that we may have to go around if it is muddy. In preperation, we have a truck with a locker in front, and one in back to pull folks out.



2) The group stops at the pile of rocks. Some notice a yellow dot in the middle of the lake, possibly stuck. First thought of a yellow vehicle is that it may be an Xterra.



3) A scouting party is established uincluding a 2005 Frontier driven by Chris West, a Granite Xterra driven by Richard from NCCX (the locked trucks) and I was passenger in the Frontier.



4) Scouting party arrives at scene. We are shocked to find an Xterra stuck up to the frame rails. An old Ford pickup has a long chain hooked to the front of the Xterra, and the crew is digging out mud trying to place plywood under the front tires.



5) After carefully walking through the mud, we make it to the Xterra, only to find out that it was Cary. I was amazed. We asked how it happened, and was told by Cary that he was scouting the lake alone, and while at night. He mistaked a big pile of mud for the rock pile because of it being dark, and tried to go around it. At that point he sunk in to thick mud. He said he tried to hike across the lake but thought he might die out there, so he came back. Eventually he hitched a ride in to town with the rangers (who tagged along with some jeepers). He hired a recovery crew.

6) I radioed back to the others and said that the Xterra was actually Cary and that he may need help. Brian radioed back and said "no way Cary Anderson is actually stuck?" Cary asked me for the radio, and he said some not so nice things back, then threw the radio at me.

7) Richard and myself offered our assistance, including water, food, supplies, rides to town, or anything else he could think of. All were refused. He said he had everything he needed.

8) We offered our assistance in helping with the recovery, Cary said no, that he had all the help he needed.

9) Brian gets on the radio and says that time is running out to make it to the spot he had planned. I radioed back that some of us may stay to help with the recovery.

10) Again Cary stressed that he did not require our help. The others were already starting to leave, so Richard and I again offered anything he needed, water, what ever. All refused.

11) As the scout group was leaving, I radioed to Brian asking how long it would take to get to the other side of the lake. I suggested that a few trucks could hook together in an effort to pull Cary out the direction he came. He radioed back saying that it would take quite a while, and if Cary didn't want help, then thats that. I radioed again, saying I did not feel comfortable leaving somone. Xterracer (black X) radioed back saying he agreed.

12) I radioed to Richard and suggested that I may want to head back to the lake after Chris's memorial was set up. Brian radioed and said that it would be dark by that time, and stressed again that he felt bad, but it was useless to help him if he didnt want it, and that the recovery crew would get him out.

13) Not having been to Mojave before, I wasn't going to search for a dry lake in the dark by myself. I felt extremely bad about leaving even though we were told to leave by Cary himself.

14) On the road out of Mojave once my phone was back in service, I called the number on the side of Cary's truck. I talked to his wife and asked if he made it out. She told me he had, and that he was staying somwhere that night but would be back the next day. If she had not told me he made it out, I would have formed a recovery party with anyone who was willing to try. I radioed to the rest of the trucks that Cary made it out O.K.

15) I called the number again the following day, and talked to Cary himself. He was not too happy. He talked about stuff that happened between toolbox and others that was way before my time and to which I really didn't care.

16) Everything gets turned around on the SCCX forum on XOC and Cary attacks me, saying that we left him?

Everything is there. Complete and honest truth.

Yes, Brian was trying to keep a schedule to complete the planned run for CCX. Did I feel bad about that? Yes. Was it wrong? Well, thats debatable. After all, you DID refuse all help from us.

Did I abandon you? NO! In fact, I was likely the only person who took the time to make sure you made it home safely.

I hope that clears some things up.

I seriously can't believe it's gotten to this point... :rolleyes:

I'm going to add my $0.02 - albeit unsolicited, because this is truly getting ridiculous.

LAXterra, as a relatively new member of the SCCX - but a member of the SCCX nonetheless - any slight, slander, mud-slinging directed at this club, I'm going to take personally. So I'd watch how I'd choose to generalize the "new SCCX" if I were you. Thus far, I've only met positive, helpful, both environmentally and socially conscience people. If you choose to take a couple of acts of indiscretion and blow it up and scream about it til you're blue in the face, well...not a whole lot I can say other than this:

Dude, get a life...seriously.

Is this seriously the legacy you want to leave behind? I mean, I don't know you from Bob but man oh man...the overall impression I have of you is that a) you have WAY too much time on your hands, and b) you are a petty, petty person that can't let go of the past. You say you're not going to sit idley by while people poke fun at you...well, why the hell not? How the hell is this going to affect your life in the 'real world' anyway? You're looking up old posts, taking the time to photoshop random pictures and actually DRIVING TO THE LOCATION IN QUESTION TO TAKE PICTURES!! Are you fucking kidding me?

Man, in some weird way, I feel for ya. Yeah, it sucks to be picked on. Yeah, people exercise false bravado using the anonymity of the internet. But shit - trust me...TRUST me when I say that like the mud pit you were in, the more you attempt to get yourself out of the hole (metaphorically speaking of course), the more you actually end up sinking into the muck. You're not doing yourself any favors buddy. Please take this stranger's advice and just give it a rest already.

Let it lie, let it die. For ALL of our sakes.

That's it - I'm out.

LAXterra, No please continue. 13 pages of popcorn material is great! Lets go for 30. Yeah that's it an even 30 pages of you refusing to let this great story die. I call 53rd to repile on this dead, no deader, no deadest thread.

I have been out focusing on medical issues and have not been keeping up with the Xterra world. However I received an e-mail last night telling me to check out XOC.

Whoa! The poster I created with Cary's X had nothing to do with him personally. He never even entered my mind. I'm not sure if that is disappointing to some, but that is the truth.

I thought I would try my hand at creating a poster and began a review of pictures on my computer. I ran across that one pretty quick and thought of some key words … stuck, can't get any farther, and the thought process went on with many edits along the way.

Although I knew it was Cary's truck since I was there, never once did I think of or relate Cary to the poster. I just thought of it as a stuck Xterra.

Apparently my mind and intent does not go in the direction of others because I do not understand why the poster is offensive. If I had been stuck and someone had created that poster of my truck, I would have laughed and thought it was a cool picture of my X, although I may have been a bit embarrassed to have been in such a situation.

But of course, when the incident first happened, I would have already posted my mistake so others could learn from it rather than trying to keep it a secret. That would have been easier than, once exposed, making excuses, blaming others and diverting the focus toward something other than the predicament I had gotten myself into.

It seems Cary, you can add your name to the list of those you claim tried to hide their mistakes, such as the rollovers you have referenced.

Not everything is about you Cary, although you seem to like the limelight. If the poster had been offensive to you, a simple PM asking me to remove it would have worked.

It was never my intent to belittle you, or whatever it is you perceive my motive was. To me it was just a picture of a stuck Xterra. I personally still don't get the joke.

Marshann

Wow

I hope your shoulder/arm is doing better and you'll be out come late Sept/Oct for a AZXC/SCCX joint run

No kidding Marshann, you may be gone but you aren't forgotten.

That was a great poster. Hell, I'm pissed you didn't use my X when I was stuck in the snow in 2003! Never in a million years would I take that as a slam on the X involved. And I saw poster before this saga.

Why don't you freaks just go on Springer and work out your little issues?

can't we all just get along..

NO!.....Hell No......

What fun would that be? After all, that's what the ALR is all about!

No fucking way man.. where is the fun in that?

An AZXC/SCCX joint run ... sounds like fun! I have another surgery in August. With the run shortly after that, I now have a reason to aim for a quick recovery. I'm definitely going to try my best to be there.

Thanks Chris for the kind words. It means a lot to me to still be considered part of the SCCX family even though I haven't been able to participate for a while. I'm looking forward to getting all this medical nonsense behind me so that I can get back to the Xcursions and friendships that I enjoy so much.

Hell no, Theo. The aloha spirit gets thrown out the window with me where LAXterra is concerned. It's just plain entertaining now.

Marshann:

The club misses you - and your food! Get well soon, oh jedi master of Costco.

fair enough.. :: grabs the popcorn ::

Oh, I take it Marshann is a good cook? Dangit, you definately have to come along after that! errr I mean definately for freinds, yeah friends, not stomach...

Well, no. But she is real good friends with KFC

I don't claim to be a good cheff but my mom has a killer merinade and I'm gonna bring some steak marinaded with the sauce. ohh man I'm getting hungry just thinking about it!!

The words "two faced", liar, SCCXcuses and buffet table comes to mind when ever your name comes up.

Source for above: http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002316
You think it is funny to mock me. Don't use the "I was misunderstood" excuse. Your " " said it all.

Lets go thru your excuses and out right lies.

The funny thing was I was not even with 2 Jeeps who "just ran across" me. Without hesitation they tried to help. "You were not even with our group" was the line that inspired my wife to come up with the term SCCXcuses.

Hey you got one right. Never do the pre-running for someone who refuses to... even thou it is clearly in the SCCX By-Laws(official title but name changed to "Guidelines" if it is incovient to obey). What will be your thanks... being kicked in the teeth.

Wife knew were I was. Friend who had access to a Land Cruiser knew were I was. Work knew were I was Friday morning when my wife e-mailed them telling them she had not heard from me and they should find a replacement to fill my shift. Work was thinking of launching the helicopter to look for me. My wife was contacted in time to contact work and let them know I had been located. If the recovery crew didn't get me out a group of 30 Rubicon's(on a run that day up and down the Calico area) 90 minutes away would have been informed were I was.

The afternoon IS NOT the middle of the night! The middle of the night is when WolfmanX called my wife to see if I got out!

What can I say... you take tele-photo pictures from 300 yards away. Do you see a back-hoe in any of your pictures. Do you see a back-hoe in any of the pictures WolfmanX took behind my back! That is the extent that you will LIE!

The back-hoe you are talking about was out on Soda Lake 3 weeks earlier! How did I get out? When did I get out?

Xterrah... so if I was still stuck... what would you have done? The same thing you did when you were 300 yards away...

The back-hoe was out on Soda Lake 3 weeks earlier! It was attempting to rescue German Tourist in 5 SUV's and 2 motorcycles. The pile of dried mud and the area I got stuck in was a loose mud pit caused by the back-hoe trying to dig it's self out. It did bust a hydraulic line. I found a empty 5 gallon bucket of hydraulic oil with all the trash left behind. I could have hired the back-hoe operator for literally half the price of the guy with the 1970 Ford pickup. I did not hire the back-hoe guy because of the principal of the matter. I hired the Ford guy... we hauled out all the trash after I got unstuck.

The tracks around me were the same tracks that were there before I got stuck. When I got out the tracks around me were the same. Tracks and holes caused by among other things a low impact(wide-track) bulldozer that sank trying to rescue a UNLV professor's Dodge Durango.

The only disgrace was that you had "to go. We have a schedule to keep". CCX would never have left period! He never would have left so he would have more time for a buffet table!

Chris... that is one of the things that really bothers me!

It would have taken less then 5 minutes to hook the 2 "Scout" vehicles to the Ford Pick-up. I would have then had a solid anchor and gotten out. Instead the group hung out long enough to watch me pull the Ford over 4x4 lumber.



Instead the group hung out long enough to take pictures literally of my back. "We got to go. We have a schedule to keep"

Yes... a schedule with Xterrah(Marshann's) buffet table.



<Edited to fix stray qoute(s)>

You gotta admit that picture is funny as hell. I used it as my desktop for a couple of months...
edited to add: and that was way before all this melodrama that is the XOC ALR room... Someone should shoot this over to Fox or UPN to pick up as a soap opera.

Cary...you refused their help.

Why did you refuse their help?

amen.

but to play devils advocate here...

look at the photos cary just posted... there is no way in hell he was solely responsible for that mess... looks like an army of trucks tore into Soda lake before it was dry for the season... i would bet it happens every year.

I presume that happened in trying to free him...

You were right about people, Cary...they don't care about the truth. What's the truth, anyway? In this case, I've heard two sides to this story--yours, and theirs. Which one is true? More importantly, why would I give a shit? Why would anyone? It was your stuck. Your stuck is your problem. I've spent enough time in the desert to learn never to underestimate that she is capable of the most severe beauty and cruelty. I love her, but I don't turn my back on her. Not for one second. Anyone who does is a fool. You were lucky that embarassment and a little lost cash were your only injuries. If I were you, I'd be a little more careful next time.

As would I...well, in some cases. A roll is as a result of driver error, whether a chronic error or a momentary error, and the consequences of a roll are much worse, but you can't do much to prepare for a roll. What you did was folly piled upon folly. I've seen good drivers roll. I've never seen a smart expedition driver get into the kind of ass-backwards situation that you managed.

I don't know about you, but I'm willing to admit my folly. I'm willing to laugh at my folly. I'm also willing to laugh right along with everyone else at my folly. If you can't do the same, then try not being such a fucking clown. Door mat? Pffft! Your hubris covered you in mud, not SCCX's boots!

Only excuses seem to be coming from you, amigo. You didn't prepare. You didn't plan. You fucked up. You refused help. You made your bed. You lie in it.

Pun intended.

I agree, unless that white film (salt maybe?) grows over night there is no way that pile in the picture could have formed over night. plus the larger ditches have a smooth layer over the middle, indication water filled them. at least thats how I see. Although I am curious about how Cary got stuck in the middle of a flat plain, at least it looks flat. But what ever, truth is, Cary broke a cardinal rule of offroading don't go out alone! And the funny thing is that if the group had never been notified of Cary being where he was none of this would be happening. that is unless some one wanted to make a claim the group was negligent for not knowing Cary was there. So Undeniable fact: Cary went off road alone

hey I like this, the irony is it's from one of our own.

sounds like my bachelor party.

Cary, you keep calling this a "pre-run."

I'm assuming that by this you are referring to the fact that you were pre-running the trail for some other excursion by someone.

But what I'm confused about is that at the time of this incident, you were already out of SCCX and other people from SCCX "happened" to be out there at the exact same time you were.

So riddle me why and how you happened to be out "pre-running" for a run that you were not invited to be on, and "happened" to be out in an area where a group of people from a club to which you no longer belonged also "happened" to be?

I mean let's look at this rationally:

You were out of SCCX.
You had burned your bridges with SCCX and completely alienated yourself from the group
You were basically stalking these guys out in the desert.
They had grown tired of dealing with whatever situation you had created with them and they we not going to go out of their way to do anything for you.

Is there something else that I'm missing here?

I did not refuse recovery help!

Just like Marshann's tale of what happened... it more then just a little bit WRONG!

Xtoolbox refused to stay. WolfmanX wanted to get BEHIND me and connect trucks. Conditions were worse behind me. What was I going to do... winch myself in deeper?

Xtoolbox from 300 yards away was saying I would drag the groups vehicles in with me. "We got to go. We have a schedule to keep".

Xtoolbox kept saying that... he said he was going to leave. I started get apologizes and offer of food and water. I told them I didn't need food or water. I had plenty. I had 5 gallons left of the 7 gallons I had brought with me on Thursday. The Ford guys had about 3 or 4 gallons they had brought with themselves.

I got offers of a ride out. This offer was the strangest of them all. What was I going to do? Leave the guys I had hired in the Ford. The guys I was supervising to get me out? Maybe get a ride so I could met up with the man(Xtoolbox) who had LAUGHED HIS ASS OFF ON THE RADIO AT MY SITUATION!!! What... maybe "hug it out" with him?

They radioed to Xtoolbox that they wanted to stay and help. Xtoolbox radioed back, "We got to go. We have a schedule to keep". Ya... a schedule with a buffet table.

I started getting more apologize. I started getting reasons they could not stay. "I have never been out here before and I don't know my way out."

Xtoolbox radioed "We got to go. We have a schedule to keep".

He then started to leave. Xtoolbox started to leave them! They(the group with me) said they had to go. Xtoolbox was leaving them!

I told them, "Go ahead. But remember this... some day Brian will leave you"

I thought that would have been a wake-up call to them. It was not.

I thought if they could put themselves in my shoes for a second they would get what took me years to figure out... what Xtoolbox was all about. HIMSELF!!! I thought they would stand up to Xtoolbox. Evidently NO ONE CAN!

It turned into what was needed to clear their conscience. I was shocked but could live with it. The person responsible for leaving me was the person who was the "leader". The person that was leaving them. Xtoolbox.

CCX would never have left. CCX would have stood up to Xtoolbox! Chris had a great amount of common sense.

I could have lead them out. Were do you think Xtoolbox got the GPS coordinates from? He got them when I first lead the 3 day Arizona to I-15 trip in 2001. I got them when my wife, as copilot, read off detailed directions and I followed them. He marked the way points along the way in his GPS. How do you think bought for him Mojave Road Guide- An Adventure Through Time by Dennis G. Casebier in 2001? Who do you think has visited Casebier at his home? Who do you think belongs to the Friends of the Mojave Road and the MOJAVE DESERT HERITAGE & CULTURAL ASSOCIATION?

Xcuses are made for everything Xtoolbox does. Laws, Rules, By-Laws, Permits and etc. are ignored. I point out violations... I am vilified an pounded on. It's the new fun SCCX/XOC game. Get the popcorn. Krisjon even went as far a comparing me to Charlie Manson. Kind of odd when you think about it. Charlie Manson was the head of a group that did whatever HE told them to do...

Actually, you told me and several others that you were on the lake at night. You said that you mistaked a pile of mud for the rock pile, and tried to go around it.

Picture which supports that explanation:



Well Cary's story changed a few times. First he said that he was out pre-running for us. Then he said he was simply there to pre-run for his Rubicon club. Now it is back to pre-running for SCCX. Who knows what is really true?

Actually I forgot to mention this, but a group of Jeeps from a magazine were running the Mojave road, and we stopped them to notify them of the Soda Lake conditions, and Brian asked them to check on Cary's status. They said if he wasn't out when they got there, they would get him out for sure.

This is true, I will verify this statement. Cary you know how I felt about all of it.

My X was in the shop after a major accident, so I was simply a passenger during all of this.



Trust me Cary, if I had my X, I would have stayed despite the fact that you told us to leave. You say now that you told us to leave, but only meant it sarcastically. That may be, but the four of us obviously thought you were serious. However, no matter what somone has done in the past, they should not be left on the trail. If it was up to me, things would have been done differently.

Word of advice. Next time you are stuck in the middle of a dry lake, don't tell the people who offer you help to leave!

We are half way there ladies and gentlemen 15 pages!
wooohoooo
Let's make it an even 30 pages. Go go go go go

Why stop at 30? I wanna see triple digits.

I've heard your rants Cary, and I can't help but indulge the little voice in the back of my head that keeps asking "Where's Cary's responsibility in all this?" I've heard you blameshift for months...or is it years? Cary, where's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY?

Like I said, I've seen good drivers roll. I have never seen ANY expedition driver worth his salt (ha!) get into a situation nearly as embarassingly stupid as yours.

So until you can rightfully say that this scene here:



...was in no way a result of your own (stupid) actions, then I suggest you SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GROW A SET.

Jesus H. Christ...I really only NOW started looking at this picture. It really does say a thousand words.

C'mon, Cary, let's take a look. Since you've decided to air your laundry, everyone else should come along too.



You were driving along this (not so) dry lake bed, alone. No convoy. No other vehicles at all.

When you started to penetrate the crust, which is substantial (even in wet conditions), and slowed, according to the tire tracks behind you in some of the photos, you did what EVERY DESERT GUIDE IN EXISTENCE tells you not to do: you kept going, instead of hanging a wide U-Turn.

When you finally stopped, you were underneath the crust, but if you'd done what you were supposed to do, you wouldn't have gotten stuck all the way to the frame rails. From how deep you are, and judging by the underlayer mud that is thrown up all over the side of your car and its sliders, once you stopped, you gunned it and dug yourself in even deeper.

You had a winch. Great. Where's your anchor or pull-pal? You're in the desert, genius--what were you planning to winch off of? A nearby tree?

Did you have a shovel? If so, great, if not, what the fuck?

Obviously someone brought some plywood. Good thinking...did they also bring you the shovel?

Looking at your tires, did you try airing down at all? Or did you keep your Dunkin' Donuts General Grabbers all hard and slippery? Why would you spring the $$$ for that fancy-schmancy Calmini bumper and retain those shitty tires? You a Gear Queer, Cary?

Where was your jack? You had a shovel to dig, plywood to use as a base, a jack to raise a tire, and more wood to throw in the hole? Plus how many guys helping you? And finally another truck?

You had all these chances to not get stuck. Once stuck, you had all the equipment and muscle you needed to get out.

And you were there HOW LONG? That's sad, Cary.

Cary, with all this, do you think you are still a good enough driver to lead a convoy into the desert? Founding member or not, you should know how to drive on a salt marsh if you're going to pre-run a convoy on a salt marsh! I wouldn't trust anyone to lead me, that got themselves into that situation and couldn't quickly and efficiently get themselves out.

Founding member? Bah! Unfortunately, your timeliness in the club's conception is no indication of you forethought or skill.

Cary,

You have said in numerous threads that I've read here and at SCCX that you were prerunning for the SCCX run. So you are saying that that's no longer the case and you were just kidding? As your relationship with SCCX severed you still seemed to be in some attempt to hold on to some thread of participation with a club that no longer wanted you. You are saying now that their happening by you was a pure coincidence?

I find it odd that a group of 30 Jeep Rubicons would need you and your Xterra anywhere but that's a different discussion.

You keep chanting the almighty "never leave a man behind" rule that should trump everything and you seem to be using that as your hole card.

But the reality is that your relationship with SCCX and the guys that later found you out in the desert was severely severed and it doesn't sound like these guys really wanted to do much more than was already being done to help you based on the state of your current relationship.

And please...........

Please?

Please?

Will you please say that it was your fuckup that you got stuck?

This thread is great. I hope my boss never realises the hours I wasted reading it today. My question is, what did Carey do to alienate himself from SCCX before the stuck-in-the-mud clusterfuck he got himself into?

Wait a minute, you could see the rock pile out in the distance, and you were out there for two fucking days? Never thought to rock yourself up a lil' ol' path out of your predicament?

I hate to keep pointing this shit out, Cary, but you're diggin' yourself deeper and deeper here. All indicators are pointing to your lack of foresight, common sense, and driving skill.

If you're gonna be that careless, it's fortunate you're so lucky. If you had been there in the middle of summer, this conversation might be a tad different. We'd be discussing what a big dumbass you were, instead of are.

Well Mr. All Seeing Answer Man... opps I mean Mr. Ticket Man. That was because in May I was driving my Rubicon on the Mojave Road, was the trail boss and was on the BOD.

Man, that just sucks. I know I'd hate to be out there for 2 days. And I just keep thinking to my self the sense of dread and panic that would kick in when your in the middle of that huge flat barren dry-lake and you realize your tires are spinning but you aren't moving. you really do have my sympathy for being stuck out there for two days. I can understand how that would count as a traumatic event, I can see how that would cause some one to latch on to the closest thing to blame to hide their own shame when they realize the bad situation they are in is due to no fault but their own. Then only to have them selves mocked and laughed at by numerous individuals over the internet, I can understand how that would make someone unerved, pissed and obsessed.

Maybe you just need a hug. After all if you are in a mentally unstable state we can't really hold you accountable to that, at least it's excusable in a court of law. So you have my sympathy for being stuck, but you did get stuck of your own accord, and for that you alone are held responsible.

Ok, maybe I'm a bit crazy!

[edit] I'm out for the weekend, see you guys in BB[/edit]

Keep avoidin' those pressing questions, Cary...

I pointed out that Xtoolbox was going to NOT pre-run this same trip in 2004. I had lead and pre-ran it in 2001, 2002 & 2003. I offered to pre-run. No one stepped up. I made the mistake of asking him if he had gotten the required Mojave National Preserve Permit.

It got me banned for life.

The irony is with his bravado he said he would go first across Soda Lake with his "balding AT's with a stock 4x4". Anyone notice he chickened out and sent others to take the pictures in this XOC thread?

His "permitting stuff" is his George Orwellian double speak for he didn't bother to get the permit.

http://www.sccxterra.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=2151&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=4

These threads have never been about reality :rolleyes:

I hope your not holding your breath.

Jesus Christ, man. You're as bad at letting go as you are at vehicle recovery.

I was wondering the same thing, and I won't be able to make it to Big Bear this weekend to ask anyone in person. So, if anyone feels like filling in some of us newcommers . . .

Yes lets just see how good of a arm chair quarterback you are!

Mr. Arm Chair. A wide U-Turn? Right into the softer... none beaten path. That's pure genius!

Mr. Arm Chair. I had a pull-pay. Bought it in 2003 to anchor my Xterra encase Xtoolbox sank his Land Cruiser. I would have a anchor to winch him out.

http://www.sccxterra.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1524&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=60

First put the winch in the back. Pulled out half the cable. Pulled the pull-pal all the way to me. Pulled out to the last wrap. Pulled the pull-pal all the way to me. Pulled out my 75 foot extension cable and hooked it onto the end of the winch line. Pulled the pull-pal all the way to me.

Did the same in front of me. It pulled the pull-pal but slower. Therefore I realized the only way out was forward.

Mr. Arm Chair. "Looking at your tires..." what PSI did I have in them? With the tires not formed around a rock and not even visible in the mud... how much? BFG 31x10.5x15 All Terrians. A whole lot better then Xtoolbox had in 2004. About what the group that left me had. Expect they were not locked.

My 48" and 60" were in the back of my Xterra along with one of my wide hi-lift platforms. The other was around 50 plus inches under the crust. Two guys in one anchor truck helped me. ALOT more stood around and took pictures behind my back.

Stuck on Thursday. Un-stuck on Saturday. I would call that 2 days. Some people in the group said I was stuck for 4 days. What is sad is the level people will go to avoid laws, By-Laws, rules, etc.

Wow, so you had all that equipment, people to help, and it still took ya two days.

Keep digging Cary...just remember to avoid those rocky pertinent questions.

Two trucks were locked in the rear.

The LIES JUST KEEP COMING.

Ummm ... he thought the poster was funny. So did I and others. Is it the picture that bothers you or is it the motivational message? If it is the picture, then, again, everything isn't about you. It's just a picture of a stuck truck.

If it is the message below the picture that has you so upset, then please let me know how you interpreted it to mock you. An apology may be in order by me.

You really think I created that poster with you in mind thinking, "I know how to stick it to Cary."? "Maybe I can turn his pathetic predicament into a mockery." Sure, I met you once but we never really spoke to each other, so no conflict there. You have never insulted me (until the recent feeble attempts), and you have never done anything to make me angry or upset. I hold no grudge against you for anything since I don't even really know you. Nope…you personally never entered my mind.

I know! It's the conspiracy theory. Xtoolbox used his almighty influence to coerce me to come up with a poster to mock you. We are all under his spell. Wooooo....

If anyone is turning this into a mockery, it is you and how you are handling the situation. I'm sorry to say that I am following along in the tone that you have set. Most people that had gone through what you did when you were stuck would have elicited responses showing sympathy or concern.

However, your messages elicit ridicule. But maybe that was your intent so that you could get much needed attention. If so, it's working. And you keep fueling the fire. So, I can only assume that is your intent here. Therefore, apparently the games are on! Page 30 - here we come!

Nope, not my quote.

Sorry, I'm playing catch-up in responding. I've been out all day.

So you are telling me, that a four foot pile of WHITE crusted mud:



Looks exactly like a 15 foot pile of BLACK rocks, in the middle of the day?



I would like to submit in to evidence exhibit A. A close-up picture of the Soda Lake soil conditions.



You can clearly see by the following image, that anybody in thier right mind would have seen the world of shit you were about to enter.. unless of course it was at night.. Also I only see one set of tracks there, not a well used path by any means.



Ummm, thats three days Cary. Here let me help you. Thursday - 1, Friday - 2, Saturday - 3. That is unless of course you were there late thursday night.... hmmm.

This isn't about me nor is it about my profession. I personally don't know you well enough to form an opinion about you one way or another. Don't make this personal. You chose to air your dirty laundry in public on an internet forum you are subject to all ridicule and "arm chair quarterbacking" people want to dish out.

Deal with it.

So what you are saying is that you were under the impression that you were prerunning for a run for a club that you were no longer a member of? Is that right?

Let's try this again:

So again... Let's focus:

Why were you prerunning? Were you under the impression that A) you were still a member of SCCX? and B) prerunning a run for them?

Are you respoonsible for the situation that you created with your relationship with SCCX?

Are you responsible for getting yourself stuck?

Do you feel that the anomosity you created with SCCXC and the members of SCCX led to them being less than interested in providing you anything but compulsory assistance?

Now concentrate.

When we were driving toward Soda Lake, a couple of ATV riders rode up to us and told us that there was an Xterra stuck out on the lake.

The information regarding the recovery details quoted above is what was relayed to us by them. It was not something we made up from 300 feet away or from imagination. There was no reason for us not to have believed the ATV riders at the time. Apparently they were mistaken in some respects.

If you had come right out from the beginning with an explanation of what really happened rather than trying to cover up your mistake, there would not have been the miscommunication in the chain of events. For the first time you are now explaining what happened from your viewpoint.



Uh, yeahhh. I wasn't about to drive out onto unsafe terrain and get myself stuck. I would have called some professionals in the area that had proper recovery gear and experience to help you out. But you had already done that and they were already there. Not much more I could have done.

Maybe offer you a ride, offer you some food and water, offer to help. But that had already been done and you had refused. Not much more I could have done.

I heard WolfmanX over the radio saying that you told him you didn't want our help. That is when we decided to leave. It was a slap in our face. It was as if you had said "sure, I'm stuck and can't get out, but there is no way I want YOUR help."

Cary - Are you ready to let this and all your other issues go yet? It doesn't seem right our having to respond to your accusations, which in turn only makes you look bad. But maybe you are really enjoying this?

Bullshit, Cary. What got you banned from the club was this kind of 15+ page (over and over again) Kennedy assassination conspiracy theory shit and your inability to let your beef with Xtoolbox just go. Both of you have fucked up, but Xtoolbox was willing to let bygones be bygones and so was the club. You created where you're at today, live with it.

Yeah.. the thread that started it ALL in June 2004, OVER TWO YEARS AGO:

http://www.sccxterra.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1923

Keep in mind, there were many many more. This was the first I was aware of. LAX started showing his true colors here. Started the same way this thread started if you notice, saying he was selling his xterra, only to start an endless shit storm.

Then there was the thread in the SCCX XOC forum, that was apparently deleted I guess?

Round 3 - FIGHT!

well i read it... after all these years i had forgotten that thread... i was a lurker then, had not been active in the club for a while, but enjoyed reading what was happening and after the little refresher I must say Cary was right... or at least to him he was

you guys fucked up.... or at least didn't handle it well.

BUT, cary went off the deep end and couldn't just walk away... he had to convince you all that he was right... i made a similar mistake and have not been out with sccx since... closest thing was the last WestX which went... well, there is a reason it was the last one.

yeah Cary went screwy... i guess in his world he figured he had to attempt to pre-run the CCX memorial run because no one else would, maybe he just couldn't let go of his concern for others... and maybe in the back of his mind he hoped something would go wrong to prove to you all that he was right... problem is the only one that had a problem was him... it was a huge gamble to do that run without prerunning... it paid off for the SCCX group and not for Cary... In fact Cary's reputation on XOC went form knowledgable grouchy old timer, to complete lunatic stalker nut job over night.

Socalpunx and i discussed this when it first happened and those were the choices... concerned for others, half-hoping for disaster... or stalker nut job... and that still appears the only two logical choices to me.

If you look at the history I think Cary's point of view and emotional attachment is understandable... I'm sure he was hoping that if he threatened to leave, you guys might take notice, like with Lory, but that didn't happen... worse yet, in trying to get you guys to take notice he kept going on and on about something you all didnt agree with and/or did not see at the time(and maybe still don't)...

when you are a lone man standing on the street yelling at people about things they don't see... you're a nut job.

when you are yelling at a group of people who see things the way you do... you're preaching to the choir.

sadly Cary apparently still doesn't know the difference...

it's a tough pill to swallow, lets lay right and wrong aside for a minute...

Cary,
There is no way you will ever... ever... get them to see this your way... maybe one day they will experience something that makes them realize you were right... maybe not. But until then... you are just going to be labeled a lunatic and no one will actually look at what you have been saying for the last 2 years as anything more than the meandering ramblings and conspiracy theories of a deranged man.

SCCX,
Most of you were not around at the beginning... but it honestly was Cary, Brian, Lory and Steve(i thinkthat's right, been a long time... Y2K) they ran it.. as a team... it devolved a bit and became Cary Planning, Lory peace keeping and Brian taking all the credit and leading all the runs... this had to piss Cary off... i'm not putting words in his mouth, but the rest of us noticed it and it was definately a topic of discussion at the numerous photo stops and other annoying stoppages and we pondered how long Cary could handle it...

apparently only about 4 years.

I'm sure the SCCX of now is very different from then, but you have to understand that in all likelyhood NO ONE put more into building sccx than Cary... the time, the effort, the money, the heart, soul and emotion... imagine if you will that you spent the amount of time and effort he did, only to first have someone else take credit for all your work and then have people laugh at your opinion... mock you and generally disregard you...

Brian,
I know you are going to hate that last part... probably think i'm talking out of my ass, It's entirely possible that this is news to you... you may not have known how much your actions rubbed people the wrong way... There were several members back in the day that left because of that situation... i was not the only one. You are the face of SCCX, like it or not... your actions act as a large eraser for your words. It is very important to choose both... wisely.

look, opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one and they all stink, but that's what this comes down to... put yourself in the other guys shoes... in that regard I think it is pretty easy to understand peoples motivations for their actions... on both sides of the issue.

---edited to add message to brian and elaborate on a few things... also to fix some grammatical crap... although I'm sure more exists-----

There are two sides to that.

Cary may have had an opinion but he went about showing it the WRONG WAY.

It's like in grade school. The annoying whiney kids would always say "fine then, I'm leaving!" expecting some sort of reaction from the other kids, and then thriving on that reaction. Cary has stressed so many times that he is twice my age, twice my age, bla bla bla, and yet, he acts like a frustrated grade schooler.

Problem is, this isn't about SCCX. This whole god damn thing is about a fued between Cary and Xtoolbox.

Can't you all see that?

2004 people.

Two YEARS AGO.

LET IT GO!!!

this is the gospel truth...

sort of... it is ALL ABOUT SCCX and having too many chiefs and not enough indians.

To be honest I still have no idea why it went down the way it did... not that i really want an answer(as that appears to be what Cary is actualy after here), but it is fascinating to watch from a strictly psychological point of view... maybe it all boils down to charisma... because lets be honest Cary has none(sorry man, but there is a reason you are behind the camera), where as Brian makes a pretty good first impression.

Explain this to me more. Since you seem to be the expert, having never been on a run for.. how many years?

How many chiefs do we have? Well that depends, we have a Board member for each county that SCCX covers. How many members do we have? 40 active? who knows how many lurkers and web wheelers.

I guess I don't understand this statement.. are you speaking of past times previous to the new SCCX structure and by-laws?

The only folks bashing the current SCCX, are people who have not been on any runs or participated in any way shape or form. Yet, here are people who have been on one or two runs with us, posting here angry because they feel SCCX is being wrongfully attacked. If that doesn't show that things have changed, I don't know what will.

i got that far and stopped reading...

because you obviously didn't read my posts.

i have no idea what the issue is now... but i knwo there were serious issues way back in oh say... may of 2000...

the chiefs i was refering to were Brian and Cary.
-edited to add--

ok i finished reading your post...
I am not bashing SCCX now... I know next to nothing of SCCX now.. i think i have made that clear... also... I don't think this issue has much to do with SCCX now. but with the silent power struggle that was already in motion back in like may of 2000... if not earlier

Gotchya! Thanks for clearing that up.

wow this is some interesting shit.. seriously thou.. Can't we all just get along...

I have been readin it for years and I have to agree here. Over two years... this is a bit too much.

Everyone feels that way, except LAXterra. :rolleyes:
Come on Cary, we know you're not even close to being done.

Let me get this straight... SCCX is a "club," right? Where folks can gather to share stories, have a beer or two, and meet for some offroad fun? Right? Fun?

and yet... there was a "silent power struggle?"

There's your problem, right there.

You guys have dues, by-laws, minutes, a treasurer, all that?

May sound like fun to some, I just don't get it.

I've got a question... And seeing as how I was probably as close to this event as shamalamadingdong, I've got a couple arm-chair questions as well.

1) How many times did you pull out the pull-pal again? 3 times?? Isn't the definition of insanity when you do the same thing over and over expecting different results??

2) You had a spare tire and a shovel, right?

3) If answer 2 is "yes", then during the 2 days time, did it ever occur to you to dig a big fucking hole, hook up the winch line to the tire, drop the tire in, and backfill it? It's called a dead-man anchor... In two days time, you could've dug down to freaking bedrock and anchored in there for cripes sake...

I'm completely understanding of getting stuck; sticky mud like that'll swallow you up in a heartbeat. Us East-coasters understand that completely. It's the whole "taking 2 days" to get unstuck that I just can not possibly understand. I know it only rains a couple times a year out there, but damn!

Shesh you laid back hawaians, we're close to LA of course we can't get along

And you have a good point. Our club, SXFC, has the dues, officers, bylaws etc... and you sometimes wonder what happened to your group of friends that just liked to get together for fun. I know one of our big reasons for the organization was a member wrecking, getting sued etc.... Plus dues allowed us to have a very good board and webhost. Theres good and bad with it but I see your point. It should just be friends getting together with friends.

not likely on soda lake.

i would suspect you could bring ina back hoe and in two days not even get close to bedrock... when there is mud there it is not measured in inches... but feet... Cary got lucky... very lucky

Yeah, it's similar to the dry lakebed next to Calico with the artesian well in the middle. That's some goop. Ironic there's that kind of mud in the middle of the desert.

Then by all means, let's attempt to cross it in an Xterra! :rolleyes:

Yeah.. right up until he refused help from us.

Then by all means, let's attempt to cross it in an Xterra! :rolleyes:

---

well right... which is why guide books only suggest it being passable two months out of the year... the planned run was not during one of the suggested times.

this was Cary's reasoning for needing to prerun... as i recall.