Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?

As I said before... I haven't gotten my X yet, because I'm waiting on a few money things to happen first... My question is, why shouldn't I get a Rubicon over an Xterra? They seem to be a WAY more offroad savy vehicle concerning angles of departure and whatever the other angle is called. Also, they seem to be able to go in water WAY deeper than an Xterra.

Does anyone have real experience with either a Rubicon Wrangler or another Wrangler package AND with an Xterra so they can give a VERY accurate comparison?

What pros/cons should I really be concerned with?

That being said, I drove the Jeep today. It drove AMAZINGLY different (and better) than I'd imagined. I had originally gone down to the Jeep dealership to test drive one to get the idea of a Wrangler out of my mind... but now I'm very interested in buying one. Hence my predicament.

ANY HELP?!

If rock crawling is your thing, and you do not need the rig to be as reliable or be able to carry much in the way of passengers or cargo...you want maximum factory rock crawling performance, period...the Rubicon is hard to beat.

I went from a Jeep upbringing, to an X, as I got tired of fixing it (OK, the wife got tired of me fixing it...), and it couldn't carry enough stuff or people (Two kids, no where for the legs to go, etc...forget luggage).

If its just a toy for playing on the rocks, I'd get the Jeep...if its a daily driver and you need it to run and get you to work every day, and get dirty on the weekends, etc... I'd get the X.

If you do sand more than rocks, or do mud not rocks, etc...the Rubi loses its charm, as its really a rock oriented beast.

The X is well rounded, and works better as a daily driver than the jeep does.

Get the Rubicon and join a Jeep forum.

Exactly what I expected TJ. Thanks. I'm still thinking the Xterra fits my lifestyle best. We're still going to all agree that the rubicon is a better offroader in pretty much every situation right? Or is the Xterra more badarse than I can know without owning one first?

I just want to make sure I'm not getting a soft truck. I want something truly rugged. Just trying to get testimonials here too.

MaloCS, why do you say it like that?

On dunes or other sand terrain, the rubi sucks...and the X wins...in mud, its at least closer depending upon tires...on rocks, the rubi's two live axles and twin lockers make a compelling argument.

As far as usefulness off the trails, or even being able to bring enough trail stuff...the rubi's lose big time...

You'd think the camel trophy races and other famous off road races would be dominated by jeeps, but, the wranglers are just too small to carry enough spare parts, tool and survival gear to compete....and, the two live axles can't keep up with the high speed off road work...they bounce all over the place at speed...and the more sophisticated suspensioned rigs tend to do better.

So - it sounds like the X is thre best option for your needs.

(BTW-I think Mal was being sarcastic)

Let me ask the question a different way:

Have you ever been offroading before (in your own 4x4 vehicle)?

From the way you ask your questions (and the fact that you're asking the question here at all), I doubt it. That's fine... nothing wrong with being a noob...

Is the Rubicon a better rock crawler than the Xterra? Hell yes.

Is the Xterra a good rock crawler and a good/tough offroad vehicle in general? Hell yes.

Since this is your first offroader (I assume) and will be your only vehicle and daily driver (I assume), I think you'll be better served by the Xterra. You won't be disappointed in its offroad capability.

Oh, BTW, you're going to want to modify EITHER vehicle a bit before doing much SERIOUS offroading. Both vehicles need rock sliders (often called rocker knockers in the Heep world) and armor improvements. The Rubicon has this scoop thing that you get stuck on all the time with a factory rig. One thing I can say in favor of the Jeeps - is that they are generally cheaper to upgrade. Since there aren't as many Nissan offroaders, the aftermarket is a bit more expensive.

Anyone else want to post up some offroad pics to show what we can do?







Black Bear Pass in Ouray, CO (not too technically difficult - but very steep and narrow... people slip off it, fall 1000 feet or so, and die from time to time):::

The Steps on Black Bear:






A little poser shot at the bottom of Poughkeepsie Gulch/Engineer Pass trail entrance:


OH - a couple afterthoughts:

The word you were looking for was approach angle. Approach and departure angles determine how steep a climb you can enter/leave without scraping bumper. It's an important thing to think about - but not the end-all-be-all of vehicle comparison criteria.

Water fording: Deep water fording is cool - and you should avoid doing it at all costs. Every vehicle has a depth limit, and whatever that limit is, you'll reach it - and go past it... and quite possibly DESTROY your vehicle by soaking the ECU, sucking water into the engine etc. I'd cross streams up to a couple feet deep without worrying about it too much... but you won't see me doing those water-over-the-hood things that others have posted. It's just too great a risk to the vehicle.

i am a total newbie.. not hiding that AT all. that's why i'm asking you fellas with the X how capable they are in comparison with the rubi.

i like the X better for all of my needs i think. better interior too. way more storage. can carry my dog in it easier too.

i always wanted to go through some water... but i'm VERY glad you told me how potentially harmful it is to a vehicle. suppose that idea is out the door now unless i can find a very shallow creek or whatnot.

now, i guess the last argument for the jeep is will i enjoy driving it more. considering the top and doors can come off and all. i love the xterra looks. but the black on black rubi looks smooth too.

lastly, what are suggestions on first mods on an x?

Hell yeah!

That's a good point too... really just depends on what's most important to you.

Really, the BEST thing to do is to have a daily driver car and then a trail rig. 'cause as they say:::


Personally, I have the best of both worlds.

My offroad rig/tow vehicle/general purpose large vehicle:


and my wind-in-my-hair fuel efficient fun-to-drive babe magnet daily driver:


There are some difficulties with having two cars - higher insurance, double the registration fees, inspections etc etc - but there are some great things, too.

In any case, if you are really planning to offroad a lot, a brand new vehicle may not be the way to go. They get scratched up, dented etc etc. It's just part of leaving the pavement. You could probably buy both of my vehicles (well, not MINE ) for the price of a new fully loaded X. An older Jeep or an '00/'01 X would serve you well.

Oh - regarding first mods... the '05+ Xterras are significantly changed from the '00-'04 like I have, so I'll let someone else talk about that - but I know you need the rock sliders (replacement step rails that are made from thick steel that will support the entire weight of the vehicle and won't bend or break when rocks smash into them) and probably other armor upgrades.

Check out Calmini for some of what is available.

I'll stop rambling now. No matter what way you go, get involved with your local Xterra/Jeep/Whatever club and you'll have a blast. They'll teach you a ton and you'll always have someone to wheel with (offroading alone is a baaad idea, mmmkay?)

There was an '05 in my group at ECXC this year. The only thing he had was 33's on it. He went everywhere that we took him. So of the trails we were on weren't stock friendly, but he didn't get stuck one time. I think he only used the locker a few times. I was completly impressed with it. So impressed, 3 weeks later went out and bought the wife one. They're not that many mods available for it yet. SchrockWorks has sliders available now for it. Their skids will be out soon from what I understand. Calmini 2005 Xterra has mods for it also.

OK this is a great vehicle all around. You can go drive across the country ver comfortably hit some hard core trail. Turn around to another section with ALL of your gear. Do some mild back country expedition type driving. Just think about it, if you want to carry anything and go anywhere get an X.

Now smile and think DAMN!!! I NEED AN XTERRA!!

Yo... do you have a larger version of that image of the X's going up that huge rock? I'd LOVE to have that as a wallpaper!

that "huge rock" would be the famous Lion's Back in Moab, UT.

i'm pretty much with what everyone said so i cant say much other than i love my X, only thing is i wish it was locked..buuuutttt... what year X are you looking to get? "older" 00-04 style (00-01 have the square headlights(GOOD KIND ) (02-04 are round..boo lol JUST KIDDING theyre all great) or the new 05's? if you get the 05 get the OR with the rear locker, or if you go older, you can grab an 01 for around 12,000 and put a couple Gs into it (front and rear air lockers...steel bumpers, sliders\skids, new T-case gears...just to name a few) and make it more capable than a jeep and you'll spend less money than you would have on a Rubi

Xterra: Everything you need, nothing you don't...

Best of both worlds: The Phoenix

I have both (well, my wife has the Rubicon, and I have an 05 X). Both are stock, but even so, both can get us to all sorts of places. Still, this summer we left the Rubicon at home and took the Xterra to Moab. Here's why:

-The X holds way, way more gear, and you can secure the gear better using the utilitrack.

-My stock 05 X has better ground clearance than a stock Rubicon (go to rubiconownersforum.com and read up on the low-hanging transfer case skidplate, a.k.a. the "shovel.") In the Rubi, we're always banging something. Once I get sliders for the X, we'll be set.

-The X gets better gas mileage and has a bigger gas tank, which gives it a much longer range for backcountry expeditions.

-The X got us to Moab comfortably. (A Rubicon doesn't need a big gas tank, because no one would want to ride in one long distance.)

Now, having said that, the Rubi is a great Jeep. At 20,000 miles it hasn't had a single problem (and no squeeks, unlike the X). It's articulation is better, and 4lo in the Rubi is just plain awesome. Comparing two stock vehicles, my wife's Rubicon can out-crawl my Xterra. It's also nice to be able to put the top down on a nice day.

But the Xterra offers so much more if you're into more than just rock-crawling. We like to hike, bike, and camp in the backcountry, and so we use the X as our expeditionary vehicle. The Rubi gets used for short day trips to the mountains and (ironically) whenever we drive downtown (it's smaller and easier to park).

If you do long, expedition style wheeling or family wheeling how are you going to pack a Rubicon? Thats possibly the biggest issue. Remember a stock Rubicon has TERRIBLE ground clearence and needs lifted ASAP.
As far as water fording No way, I dont know how they measure but knowing how US built vehicle intake systems are there is no way a Rubicon can touch an Xterra.

As far Approach Departure, remember the 05 Xterra has a knuckle dragger front bumper required by new federal regulations, but once replaced with an off-road bumper I would bet it challenges the Rubicon.
Overall a Rubicon would be more capable just based on wheelbase, if your entire goal is extreme rock crawling, and of course solid front axle. BUT, for long trips....Its all a compromise. I run everything from easy to VERY extreme, and a chose an 05x as my next build up.

i think i was busy being dazed by all of the hype behind a jeep. it makes no sense for me to get one i'm thinking... and yes Mudx4x4, i'm getting the OR 4x4 version with the rear limited slip (let's be honest, it's a limited slip, not a true locker right?).

and i intend highly on riding the stock tires to the ground while i save up for a good new set of tires. i also intend on putting on a new front end. what suggestions can be made about the tire size? how big of tires could i COMFORTABLY get before i have to put a lift kit on the truck?

X all the way. WAY more practical

lastly, what sort of squeeks can i expect to have? and how easily are they remedied?

the 05 OR do have an actual locker, not a LSD, so you will be locked in the rear, i own an 01 but i read somewhere that you can fit up to 33's without trim, but i'll let an 05 owner confirm that, sqeaks? its a different front end from the other generation but the rear leafs, expect sqeaks, mine sqeak alot but i just sprayed the bushings on the shackles down with wd-40 about a month ago...havent heard a sound since, but at ECXC i did hear an 05 sqeaking, but for me it was an easy fix, but like i said ill let the 05 owners chime in on stuff about the truck, good luck with the purchase

how about a limited slip front diff and a dana 44 rear with a detroit E-Locker? And you better believe it works!

As far as the squeaks go, well, the 05 is still a first year model. I had to zip tie some cables under the driver's side dash (no big deal), but the most annoying problem is that the rubber stops that hold the hood up are noisy.

Topic: Help with new \'05 annoying squeaking sound from hood

I put a lot of offroad miles on my X in Moab this summer, and the rubber stops basically fell apart. I've got electrical tape holding them together right now, and I haven't bothered to replace them because I think it'll just happen again. When I get a chance, I'm going to make replacement stops of some sort.

My driver's side window also rattles like hell when half-way down on a dirt road-- sounds like it's going to break. My dealer has been working on this one.

Any vehicle's going to make noises if you drive it off road, but in the 7000 miles I've driven it, my 05 X has been more rattle-prone than the Rubicon. I suppose that's what I get for buying a first year vehicle. In general Nissan gets better quality reviews than Jeep. For what it's worth, my brother-in-law's 05 Frontier has been super-quiet (but the only place he ever drives it is to work and the mall).

I wouldn't let a few rattles or squeaks turn you off from getting an 05 Xterra. The new ones really are well thought out for off roading-- flat undercarriage, rear locker, good ground clearance, great storage. I would, however, read through the 2005 Forum to make sure you can live with/fix its weaknesses-- some rattles and squeaks, a noisy AC system, and an easily-scratched interior.

Right now the 05 Xterra is a pretty unique vehicle. It's the size of Land Cruisers and Land Rovers that cost tens of thousands more, has V6 mileage with the power of a V8, and nicely balances the needs of a daily driver and an offroader. The Rubicon doesn't do this (although the all-new 2007 4-door Wrangler and the 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser may-- but neither vehicle is out yet, and both will be first year models when they arrive in showrooms).

not too concerned with squeaks i suppose. i'll probably be blasting the cd player anyway.

only concern now is the, as i've heard about before, easily scratched interior... that sux.

well put allahades... the 05 truly is what you said. uniquely cool.

Oh dude. I do want. I yearn. I need.

Now, to find the price I want... and to decide between Silver/Night Armor and Black.

MmMmMMMMmmm. Tasty.

Lots of good points. Details like the absolutely amazing interior, with easily cleaned surfaces, even non-skid surfaces, and removable liners. Insanse Rockford Fosgate Stereo. As much power as you will ever need, a 5spd Auto set up for quick shifts from 1-2 and back. Tons of thoughtful storage, even a water bottle holder. A clocked drivetrane for a flat pan which will be an asset with a lift and real skid plates. Also VDC which is a blast doing the baja thing, and HDC, a fun gimic usually found on very high end rigs.

It actually has front and rear LSD units. They are accomplished through an excellent performing computer system that modulates brakes. SO kind of fake LSD, but lock in the back and youll find the front "fake" Lsd working as good as any lsd you have ever tried, and maybe better. It sure surprised me. SO much I dont plan on a front locker, when one comes available until most other mods are done first!

The biggest weakness is the rear leaf springs that bottom out BADLY. Its ugly, and will require a fix. The electronic actuated t/case is not good either. I even put it in fail mode my first trip out.

I've got both, a Wrangler and Xterra

my wrangler kicks my xterra's butt offroad, but rides like complete a$$ on road, but that is due to mods. one thing you should think about is the long wheel base rubicon (the unlimited).

my jeep




I can't drive the Jeep more than 2 hours on the road. When I go on a far away wheeling trip, I take my Xterra.

my X





my jeep basically only gets driven offroad, it's a toy, I wouldn't want it for daily driving. It sounds like an Xterra is the best in your situation.

see, now there's a post i was looking for in the beginning of this thread.
(hoping not to hear)

still thinking xterra is way my choice, but here's another question for you guys.

What other SUV (not a wrangler) beit full sized or mid sized like the Xterra, that can perform as well as an Xterra offroad?

It was my novice assumption that the X was probably the best SUV other than a Wrangler for offroading

Other thoughts?

There is simply not much out there, but its coming and the new H3 would be an excellent comparison, if you can stand no power, bad visibility and GM unreliability.

The new FJ40, coming count next year as well is worth a solid look.

A Toyota Tacoma or Nissan Frontier are fine choices as well if you are into a pickup option.

I have not heard much good about the new Fourunner, but it might be worth a look.

The only serious competitor for reliability and capability I see is the sleeper FJ40 for 06. Price is supposed to be very low, but lets see if it truly gets the proper off-road goodies.

Just remember the basic rules, reliability, traction, articulation, maneauverability, ground clearence. And if it has no locker option and of course low range, walk away, thats in-excusable today.

Kenn Bart!!!

He has an '05 X. Not to many aftermarket products for it yet.

Lance (Xcement) put 33's on his '05 and only had to take a heat gun to the wheel wells so he could push them up.

duh...i knew that haha oops! well get an 05 offroad and then WAIT for the aftermarkets! hows that?

just waiting on the incentives to boost up one more good time. then i'll be in the club for real.

33's? no lift? smooth! what are the stock tires? i can't find out for the life of me. i'm supposing they're 28-29?

Metric 32's I believe...like 265/75/16's or something.

The Rubi is great if you're really up for driving a Jeep. I had an X, and now have a Rubi. Wheeled both of them significantly. While the stock Rubi does many have technical advantages over the stock X, the biggest difference offroad is the maneuverability due to the wheelbase. The TJ will run circles around the X. You'll probably spend half as much on mods for the Rubi, Jeep parts are cheap. A big determining factor is "what's the weather like there?". We've had a very nice summer here, and I've had the top down and doors off about 80% of the time. Feeling the sun on your face and wind in your hair is awesome, and no other vehicle can compare (except perhaps a bike). Plus there's the chick-magnet factor (sorry soccer-mom X-owners). :p As far as reliability, my Rubi is over 30k after 1.5 years, and hasn't had any problems (except a front wheel that's currently wickedly out of balance). I had more problems with my Xterra than I have with this.

Now the bad part is that you have to wholeheartedly accept the fact that it rides like a Jeep. Its quite a rough ride, and insanely loud with the soft top on. The stereo can keep up, but its not exactly audiophile-quality. I have no problem taking road trips across the country in my Jeep, but you do have to pack light. Any camping trip with more than 1 passenger is pretty much out of the question. I have to leave my two 30lb dogs at home when camping with my girlfriend. A trailer for gear is always an option, but I haven't made it there yet. Roofracks are also a possibility, but since the aerodynamics are already that of a brick you may not want to make it worse (plus you don't want to f* with the already high CG). Gas mileage sucks (although my 2001 X did, too). I get about 14.5 mpg, consistently. I don't know what the guys in the new X's are getting.

If you want something insanely fun to drive, and like the elements, and/or plan on a lot of offroading, get the Jeep. Otherwise stick with the X. Personally, if I was looking at an Xterra-type vehicle, I'd bypass it for something with less macho-image and better fuel economy. I like my Jeep, though, and have no plans on ever going back.

Not really a fair comparison due to the different weather (rain vs dry), but... I geocache and there was one cache that I thought I had to try.
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_det...&log=y&decrypt=

Some of the logs are intersting to read.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=78f0c7d0-86fc-4aa3-b4d4-00617df64081

and

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=24dae22f-a61f-45af-a462-3d34200e80d8

and

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=4f2aacad-48b6-4e9a-baa2-636f529ae92d

and finally!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=84e83e0a-733c-469c-8ce5-e2d94ea984fb

The short story is this. Three Jeeps (two Rubicons) tried making it up and failed, my stock 05 OR X made it up with very little trouble.

was reading another thread about ifs vs sfa and the like.... here's a question i'd like directly answered.

*drum roll to those of you knowing what's coming*
*and no it's not is ifs better or worse than sfa*

my question is, is it futile to lock the rear axle and not the front like in the 05's?

is it a vein attempt to make a "go anywhere" vehicle a "true offroader" sort of scenario? or is it a totally hip addition to it (which i feel is the obviously clear answer)?

other related pre-emptive questions that would inevitably follow THAT question are things like, how much would it cost to make my front axle locked out? how much more of a badass would the x be with a locked front? would it put unusual wear and tear on the vehicle? ETC ETC... answer as many of these as possible. *even though i should start a new thread for this*

Lots of X's get front lockers...made by ARB...air lockers.

As the X is driven around in rear wheel drive most of the time...and, the ARB lets you leave the front unlocked when you don't need it...the wear and tear issue isn't a big deal.

If you have a front locker and the wheel is cut to full lock and you are flooring it, sure, there's more stress on the CV joint...but I don't know anyone who blew one that way yet (I'm sure some people have though, its inevitable)

I've seen jeeps blow lockers though, so its not just an X thing....its a locker thing.

A locker is about $650, and you'd need a compressor to actuate it, say another $200 or so....the labor might be more of an issue as it sounds like you are unfamiliar with the mechanics end...figure a round $grand for the locker.

A locker helps an IFS rig more than it helps a SFA rig...as the IFS is more likely to have one tire hanging in mid-air, etc....like a Hummer.



Will you just buy the X already?

The answer is NO. The rear axle provides the bulk of your traction off-road, therefore is the most important axle to lock. The reason is as you climb weight shifts to the rear axle. So you always want to lock the back first. I am sure a front locker will be out eventually, but honestly I dont care. The electronic front LSD is so good I only break traction on the most sevier terrain, and only because I rub the under carrage. I am planning on lift and armor first. This is coming from someone with front and rear lockers on his current trail rig. On my first big wheeling trip I crawled as well as some front and rear locked Xs, and even did better at times!

Absolutely not. In my Rubi I probably use the front locker only 1 out of every 5 times I use the rear. A rear locker helps A LOT. The front locker is primarily of use in clawing the front tires up over single, large, near-vertical obstacles (read "rocks") that the rear tires can't push you up. Plus, unless the conditions you are in have very poor traction (lots of slip), a front locker makes steering difficult. A locker on eiher end, in any vehicle, WILL make it a lot easier to break things (axles, CVs, diff). When using a locker you have to really keep the skinny pedal under control. A locked axle doesn't care much for driveline shock (a revved-up, fast-spinning tire suddenly gaining traction and stopping movement). Lockers kick ass, but drive responsibly with them (you should anyway to minimize trail damage).

oh i'm totally going to get one. it's just a matter of whether i want the silver one with the ec mirror and NOT a pointlessly expensive sound system (which is the package i want but not the color i want)... OR the night armor one with the expensive radio...which i'm pretty sure i want the night armor one.

i'm torn
black
silver
night armor.

so there's a ghetto quick poll for u guys. help me here. vote!

Let me add that the 900.00 for the Fosgate is definately worth it. And I challenge someone to have an aftermarket stereo system with 6 disk in dash, rarely skipping, even off-road CD/MP3 player and a stereo with big, managable controls for off-road, huge preset buttons, manual tuner...wont find it anyways.......
AS well as steering wheel controls, 2 booming sub woofers under the seats and sound quality that is crystal clear at levels that make the mirrors shake into a blurr.
Installed for 900.00. The challenge is on!

that's a good thing because the only black xterra i could find was WITh the dang sound system in it... so it better ROCK. because i'm a big fan of an aftermarket system. perhaps it'll save me money in the long run.

and the damn tow package was on it too

how does 28,350's OUT the door on an OR 4x4 Xterra with a rockford/tow/microfilter/cargo trey thing/carpeted floor mats sound?

sound about good?

I believe thats EXACTLY what we paid.

I currently own a '95 YJ and the '05 X. One thing that hasn't been mentioned regarding the comparison is the cost of insurance. I pay the same amount for liability ONLY for the Wrangler as I do for full and complete coverage on the X.

Also, I won't let either of my kids drive the Jeep. It is, in my opinion, a very dangerous vehicle for a new driver. You need skill to control that thing under evasive manuevering situtaions. The short wheelbase and no ABS on the Jeep lock the rear wheels almost instantly under hard braking. The insurance is high on that truck for a reason...

Insurance is interesting. I was shocked when I called my agent originaly to ask about the 05 X. We had 2 old beaters insured for liability on one and full on the other, and the X only added 75.00/ month to our rate. I was expecting way worse for a new SUV!

Sorry to be Capt. Bringdown. In a similar vein to the insurance discussion just raised: do you think you would be more or less likely to walk away from a collision if you were driving an X or a Jeep? I think the former.

hey, i got him down to 28,050's out the door... and that's with the good system/microfilter/mats/cargo organizer trey thing/ec mirrior/towing/. So I'm feeling good.

JUST FYI guys... I GO TO PICK IT UP TOMORROW.

Super Black OR 4x4 by God. Wish me luck.

Since I have folks constantly checking up on this thread... I'll continue to thread jack this and switch topics.

In brief... what all does a SL do that a BL doesn't and vice versa? My thoughts are that lifts are merely so that you can afford larger diameter tires. IS that totally wrong? It doesn't seem like lifts affect the actual ground clearance because the rear ball joint still hangs low, and whatever other underpinnings there are that I'm not informed enough to know their names....

Am I wrong to assume that the clearance doesn't really go up? Or am I delusional, and incapable of seeing the ball joint going up?

(also, is it worth getting the pinstripe on my X? i have VERY little time to know about this, considering i'm picking it up tomorrow. so let me know guys and gals!)

the suspension lift does lift the truck 3" higher than stock, the body lift only lifts the body (hense body lift) higher than the frame, thats why in some pics on here of body lifts, you can see alot more of the frame than a stock X...the BL lets you add bigger tires...a suspension lift actually gives you more clearance off road...but thats on pre 05's..i remember seein a thread on a lifted 05 VS stock 05...and i also saw on calmini's site about a 5" lift for the 05's?

heres the link of that lifted 05, you can see the improved ground clearance on the lifted Vs the stock..

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002114

The word you were looking for was differential, and the rear diff will not be raised by a suspension lift (bigger tires will get it off the ground a bit more) but on an IFS rig if you lift the front end the diff will be raised as well.

SLR will have their lift out soon too... I'd wait on the SLR stuff, here's the frontier kit:

http://www.spencerlowracing.com/products/SLR_2005_V6_4x4_Frontier_5/

I don't understand why anyone would try and compare these two vehicles. They are totally different and aimed at different markets. If the original poster started this thread to compare the Xterra to a Liberty or Cherokee then that would be fine. They are comparable vehicles marketed to the same demographic. To compare an Xterra to a Jeep Rubicon is asinine.

My Wrangler vs Xterra Conclusion:

It's not a pointless comparison per se. My research has lead me to understand that an Xterra can be modded to perform easily in the same ballpark as a Rubicon. Modding takes money. Depending on how hardcore you are, it can cost LOTS of money.

The point, I believe is for the Xterra to be able to take you anywhere on these offroad trails you want.

Now, I see lots of pictures where folks are doing lots of cool things with their cool little Wranglers. (and they ARE badass offroaders)... but, most of the time when you see crazy pics of hardcore articulation and the such they are off the beaten path... in fact, they are hardly ever showing pictures of themselves ON the path. They're busy crawling up a rock that they'll never end up on top of to get somewhere... They're just showing off how badass they can articulate... which they can... and that's cool.

It's just that... Xterras can too after some light to heavy modding... heck, you can even add a solid front axle and some "air lockers" (which i haven't researched much about yet) IF you're so inclined.

That being said... The Xterra has a surprisingly low insurance rate ... Wrangler insurance sux ass . The gas is much better in an Xterra . It can tote WAY more (as we Alabamians say) . It can TOW more . It's safer . It actually has a decent interior ... not to mention it looks way smoother ... AND it has more power (even though weight issues could be argued for the Wrangler).

Even the stock comparison is a valid argument for the Xterra being more capable... due to the really low transfer case. That would automatically cost you big bucks to mod and fix up if you bought a rubicon.

Near par without having ever really 4x4 offroaded? *grin*

I am with M2pro here also. I bought my 05 as my next trail rig, to replace my aging SWB Montero. Rubicon WAS a consideration for myself, but I primarily declined due to lack of space for my family on 10 day wheeling trips. And used some of his other logic. The Xterra has been marketed as a serious off-road, and sportsman vehicle, not a soccer mom vehicle. Now, due to the delicate nature and limited capabilities of a pre-05, I would have not even compared the 2 models. To me they are the same market, the key difference is LWB Vs SWB, and that is a big difference, but both can be made into trail rigs. If I were comparing to a Liberty or Grand, I would use the Pathfinder to compare myself.

How about a SWB Xterra? Hmmmmm....

First of all, you guys should be listing what it is you expect out of a vehicle. What activities you will be using it for, what creature comforts you require and how much you're willing to pay. Then you look at the automobiles that best fit these requirements and compare and contrast between them.

It's obvious (from the above responses) that you guys want a vehicle that is more versatile then a Jeep Wrangler so why are you even considering it? Please explain to me how the Jeep Wrangler could possibly be a valid choice knowing that you want a vehicle that can take the kids to soccer practice, pick up the weekly groceries, offer a comfortable commute, haul the family on extended road trip vacations and tear it up off road. It seems to me that comparing the Jeep Liberty to the Xterra would be a more reasonable comparison.

What we have here is someone wanting to compare a Chevy Corvette to a Nissan Maxima. Two different cars designed and marketed to two different markets. Lets compare apples to apples.

Problem is the Jeep Liberty is nowhere near capable enough, nor large enough and does not have a locker. And if it does not have a locker, its not getting a look by me. Besides, I dont buy American cars, even if they are made by Germans.

Sounds like you left to go pick up a new X.



Anyway -

Ground clearance involves several issues.

1. The differentials (Those masses at the center of the axle that are lower than the rest of the truck) - As explained, the rear's can only get more clearance by getting a larger diameter tire...the front diff is raised by an SL (AND by larger tires).

2. The rest of the under carriage (The body and frame, the exhaust, drive shafts, gas tank, etc...)...and SL will pick up the frame, which lifts all the truck parts from the frame up...So - A BL will raise SOME of those parts further out of harm's way...(AND is lifted by larger tires)

3. The approach angle (Concerning what steepness you'd be able to drive up w/o hitting the front end on it)...Improved by larger tires or an SL, or a Shrockworks bumper...or, a BL lets the front bumper be higher, improving all bumper related approach angles.

4. The departure angle (Concerning how steep a thing you can drive off of, w/o whacking the rear end on it on the way down...)...improved by larger tires, or an SL, or, again...a BL can let you raise the rear bumper, improving departure angles.

5. Break over angle (Picture your truck cresting a steep hill, with the front tires over the top on on the downhill side, and your rear tires still on the uphill side...the crest of the hill will be really close or hitting the center of your truck's bottom...so the angle from the bottoms of the tires to the center of the truck's bottom) - This is improved by larger tires or an SL.

That's a summary of how it can work.

Notice that larger tires are the universal solution, as they are the ONLY way to get the rear diff higher, and, they lift the entire truck, not just part.

To get larger tires, you can do an SL...but, that leaves no additional room under compression (When the tire is stuffed up into the wheel well on uptravel)...so you can't fit as large a tire because it will still hit on uptravel the same as before the lift...but be fine at ride height, etc...

You can add bumpstop extensions (Rubber stops that make the OEM stops longer...) that keep the tire from rising as far...but steal uptravel....

Or

Do a BL...which allows the larger tire to go further up w/o hitting, thus ultimately allowing a larger tire than an SL (W/o really raising the whole truck by itself)

So - Each has its role...I have a 3" SL and a 2" BL...and can run 305/70/16's, which are like wider treaded taller 33x12.5's.

so i got the truck. i could NOT be happier. glad i was forced into the sound system. i've had fully pimped out after market systems in my car. this one sounds fantastic. i mean it, fantastic.

this truck is UNBELIEVABLE. don't know why it feels different than the test drive. i suppose because i own it, it feels way smoother. and by smooth, i mean pimp.

so, i'm officially in the club now. next is going to the mod department. deciding to probably put sliders first (shrockworks probably... chrome too mmmmm)

then, flowmaster i'm thinking... boy, as i've looked back on this post, it looks like i had WAY too much adderall. (or however u spell it)

look at my sick amount of run-on sentences and grammatical errors. i love it. also at work, can't really focus.

ok, the xterra rules. can't wait to mod and go offroad. shout at y'all later.

You should hook up with Southeast Xterra (In forum local group section...) or other off road clubs in your area...they'll help you find some trails, teach you the ropes, etc.



Avoid chrome anything...off roaders and chrome don't normally mix....think black or grey, etc...unless you are more gaily oriented, like Dagger, etc...and need to have a flashier presence to feel comfortable, etc.

Congrats on the purchase.

Another " Fosgate" fan Watch your hearing though! Skip the Chrome, and with 265 ponies, skip the flowmaster and save for bumpers, skid plates and lovely 5" lift, now thats pimp

skip flowmaster entirely? or just wait till i lift it and such? no chrome? i mean, black on black would look kind of dumb. not that i want to be flashy...but they're step rails... not rims. i'm not trying to do something non-functional here. besides, the black ones are more expensive anyway! that's flashier!

also, i figured the stock OR skid plates were decent enough. no? maybe i overlooked that. i suppose they're not beefy enough eh?

congrats on the purchase...now pics! lol

perhaps i should post some pics pre-mod. it would make me feel good about myself... or something.

not that i'll be modding soon anyway. i have to get a few paychecks back under my belt for a comfort zone. *ahem* i kinda put a 19k down payment on it. so, needless to say, i have like zilch in my checking/savings.

put those up soon.

That's the problem...they're step rails....you want rock rails...sliders.



Bling falls off...get steel.



You can coast for while, the X can do quite a bit the way it is.

Go WHEELING!!!! GET DIRTY!!!! X's shine when covered with MUD!

They're sliders, not step rails, designed to slide you across/fend off obstacles that would normally kill your rocker panels/lower doors. The chrome would just get scratched to hell, unless you're not taking it off road. In that case, it's your vehicle do what you want with it, just expect some flak from the rest of us Just get the bare steel Shrock sliders and you can do whatever you want to do with them, paint (any color under the rainbow), [cough]chrome[/chrome], powdercoat, etc...

Haven't looked @ the stock underbody armor on the '05s yet, but I would want to get something designed by Shrock or Skid Row to really protect the vital underbelly of the X...I have already had to replace my gas tank on my '02 (at ~$500 and that's with a discount) because the stock "skid" is such a worthless piece of swiss cheese posing as steel.

Haven't looked @ the stock underbody armor on the '05s yet, but I would want to get something designed by Shrock or Skid Row to really protect the vital underbelly of the X...I have already had to replace my gas tank on my '02 (at ~$500 and that's with a discount) because the stock "skid" is such a worthless piece of swiss cheese posing as steel.[/QB][/QUOTE]

The stock skid plates are some of the thinnest I have ever seen. One moderate wheeling trip and they all collapsed. I wont even do a hard trip until I get a skid plate package. Its kind of a shame, but I think its because they struggled to meet fuel milage standards, even on the 05 X. Only reason I can explain putting on skid plates so thin splashing water might bend them

Hmmmmmm....Let's see....

Rubicon vs. Xterra
Chrysler reliability (HA!) vs. Nissan reliability (meh)
Solid Front Axle (articulate) vs. IFS (just lift the wheel)
Solid Front Axle (hell on the freeway) vs. IFS (Rides like Dad's Camry!)
FR and RR Lockers vs. Optional Rear Locker
Huge aftermarket following vs. limited aftermarket following
Doesn't need mods to hardcore wheel vs. Hello, Calmini!
Convertible vs. Hard Top
Bring a buddy camping vs. bring buddies camping
Gets you there vs. Gets you home

And the winner is............

The Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80

What.

Toyota Reliability
Solid Front Axle (and still rides like Dad's Camry!)
Front and Rear Lockers
Huge Aftermarket following
Needs few mods to hardcore wheel
Goodbye Calmini, Hello ARB!
Hard Top, but w/massive sunroof
Seats Eight--Bring small tribe camping
Gets you there. Gets you home.

Oh, and a used one with low miles can be found for about half the price of an Xterra or Rubicon.

Sexy, too.

Rubicon Unlimited .VS. the 05 OR X might be a better comparison unless you’re looking for a short wheel base [SWB] vehicle.

IMO in general a SWB doesn’t ride as smooth on the highway, off-road a SWB will be an advantage sometimes while a LWB other times such as climbing.

Personally if I going to buy a vehicle just for wheeling I would get a rock buggy. I would have a hard time spending 25k+ plus another 5 to 10k+ for a long arm lift, skids, steering upgrades, bumpers, rear CV DS, HD axle shafts, u-joints, tires, etc that I would want with a jeep.

If your vehicle will be a daily driver, go with the X. If you just need a trail rig, go buy a used, built jeep/rubi.

The Xterra has one of the best engines out there. It's also a more useful all-around vehicle.

Jeeps are a dime a dozen, especially on the trails. I take pride in the fact that I wheel my X.

The X is also better for the Baja 1000.

You will find people bowing down to jeeps all the time. Truth is, I see them stuck and broken down frequently!

Plus, with an X, you can have fun in the snow!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^click click^

I will COMPLETELY dissagree on the FJ80, the newer ones with the lockers, are far too large for most trails. I have seen old school ones on trails, but never a newer one on anything but easy trails. Thats also not a fair comparison since the new ones have no lockers and are useless, you have to compare new to new, not old to new or what could be added as mods.

As far as a rock buggy as a trail rig? Sure, if you have another 30K for a Titan tow rig, 3,000 for a trailer, dont do expeditions or interconnecting trails, dont do long easy trails, have a 50K+ budget for the rig, dont want to drive cross country to a trail head, dont want to take your family.....Rock buggies are a vastly different wheeling style.

Yeah newer LC’s aren’t really in same class size or $ wise but:

91-97’ FJ80 are just a bit bigger than an X with a 112” wheel base and do/fit fine on the Rubicon, Moab, etc. Used ones do make excellent expedition vehicles.

>97 are LC 100’s, larger and IFS, lockers optional, but with a lift and some armor, they still run the “Con just like 4 wheeler mag did with their Lexus 470 series the last two years.

Maybe you missed my personal point about a rock buggy? Wasn’t taking about an expedition vehicle or something general purpose (already have those) hence the name but something just for off-roading as a 2nd, 3rd vehicle, or 4th in my case

Here you go B-
RHINO RTV- XT1


I'd like to win the lottery and deposit a large pile of large rocks on my large property and have a half dozen or so of these to run around on, like quads.. Yeah, that'd be sweet..

DBAX does that thing come with a leather option? I bet that thing would be a blast!

Wow, so you've taken your '05 Xterra on trails no fully locked FJ80 would dare to go?
Now THAT'S hardcore!

:rolleyes:

I own a 05 Rubicon and wheel with a guy with a 2002 supercharged X all the time.

I like the X, and it has a huge advantage in interior space. He lugs the cooler.

It is also capable off road, but could use lockers. I had to pull him up a section of trail, on one outing. (could have been my bad spotting)

He may trade his in on a Rubicon or Rubicon unlimited.

I know tons of people with Jeeps, and none have had major problems. My buddies X had the AC go out 6 months after he got it.

Toyota "legendary reliability" is just that, a legend, a grain of truth with a ton of hype. My mom has a 2000 Camry and it is a POS, the strut towers went bad at 28k and Toyota would not cover them under warranty. At least not until my mother wrote a nasty letter to the corporate offices, and even then they would not cover the shocks that failed because the strut towers did.

Another Buddy has a 99 Tacoma and it is falling apart. I can’t stand it, it is such a pile of crap. Warped rotors, really bad axle wrap on every stop, interior trim falling off.Also had the starter go with less the 80k on it and the ignition switch. Totally reminds me of 80s GM cars.

I have owned 3 2000 and newer GM vehicles and everyone has been better then those "legendary Toyotas".

I am sure you will love the X, they are pretty cool, and I don't have a wife and kids, and don’t plan on getting any kids ever. So the jeep is fine for me, the dog, and any future chicks I decide to put up with.

The people here who said the X is a better all around vehicle are on target, but it won't keep up with a wrangler, and especially a Rubicon on some trails.

Own them on dunes though!

It all boils down to driving what you like. I think the Jeeps are way cooler looking but that’s just me.

Oh check with your dealer before you do major mods, they may mess with your warranty on you.

With Modern cars, I don’t think reliability is much of a factor, they ALL are, even Toyotas and Chryslers, they all put out a lemon now and then but quality is pretty close across the board. The age of all American cars being crap was over YEARS ago.

AS an example both Ford and Toyota just recalled hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

One word: statistics.

Hey, I am perfectly willing to admit the people I know got unlucky.

But I know they had problems.

I didn’t really want to bag on Toyotas.

Just to say they are not problem free.

My whole point was drive what you like.

Yeah, and as much of a Toyota fanatic as I am, I still am willing to admit when I see a Rubicon, my pants get a little tight. The Rubicon is my Pam Anderson; I don't want to like her, I just kinda can't help it.

The stats no longer favor Toyota.

Apparently, you didn't get the memo.


Seriously, though. I would never down Toyotas because they are good vehicles.

Your rig is nice, but will have some fairly significant trouble getting through some local spots I frequent. The 90s LCs are just big. I'm sure there are plenty of places it isn't an issue, but at Old Chinaman's, Eagle Rock, Devil's Punchbowl and plenty of other places here it can pose a significant liability.

I think the VQ & VG engines and the H233B axle are reason enough for you not to have such an elitist attitude towards Nissan.

Those rhinos look a little funky for my taste; need a bit more room for the big head and kids. A 4 seat buggy with an ice chest rack would be sweet though.

I dunno about LC FJ80's being too large but 40’s are a nice equalizer http://www.actionjackson.com/cruiser/trailruns.asp

Unless you're comparing a FJ80 to a SWB they will go just about anywhere other non choped street legal built 100-115’ LWB’s with sheet metal will. Even a very mild build like mine with just sliders, 2.5” lift, 33’s or 35’s, dual factory lockers can run almost all the trails other than the more extreme stuff

Maybe I’ll chop mine up one of these days so I fit

They're great trail rigs, like I said. They are full sized trucks, though. They will only go where they can fit. I have personally seen FJ80s end up with body damage and have significant trouble where the smaller rigs drove right through.

I'm willing to admit the disadvantages of an Xterra when compared with a SWB. However, we have advantages, too. SWB are more likely to flip backwards on steep obstacles.

A popular mod for Jeep-based rock buggies is to lengthen the wheelbase to ~103". They do it because they want the advantages the extra wheelbase gives.

Congratulations! Enjoy the trails!

I have to agree with that. There are at least three different offroad markets there, probably more. The wrangler-type is for those that JUST go offroad. There's a market for the dual-use off and on-road for the daily drivers, and then there are the soccer moms that sometimes go on dirt roads.

For the daily driver that wants to rock climb, I would see the Liberty in the same group as the xterra, along with the pathfinder and others.

Before throwing out the Jeep Liberty, let me post a little bit about it. I researched a lot of vehicles before I went with a Liberty (and I really love the look of the new Xterras).

#1, the Jeep Liberty *IS* a capable offroad vehicle. Right off the lot, you can get skid plates, rock rails, and lamp covers for the rear. They aren't just wimpy factory skid plates, either, there's an engine plate, tranny plate, tank skid, etc - it's fully covered down there, I've bounced off a lot of rocks.

#2, Lots of aftermarket parts available. 2-3" lift kits (spacer or spring) are available from multiple vendors (I'd guess at least 20 manufacturers). As cheap as $130 for a spacer, full coil lifts are as cheap as $500.

#3, Other available aftermarket parts - lockers, differential plates, bumpers/winches, other typical 4x4 accessories.

#4, bigger than a wrangler! Lots of space inside to fit people + stuff, and it has 4 doors! I would have gotten a wrangler myself if there were 4 doors and cargo space.

#5, The lightbar you can get installed by the dealer. Sure there are plenty of aftermarket ones available, but the factory one looks nice.

#6, Despite being larger than the wrangler, it has a very tight turning radius and godo visibility. I find that it's easier to drive on trail and on road than cars are. Who wouldn't want a truck like that that can still parallel park and do a u-turn within 2 lanes?

In the Jeep world, the Liberty is still trying to gain acceptance - The main reason it's not seen as truly offroad capable is because of the independant front suspension - however ONLY the wrangler is SFA now, both the cherokee and the commander are independant, so it is the direction these vehicles are moving.

Not really trying to say Xterra vs Liberty pros/cons, but it is another vehicle you should consider if not sure what to get. Check out the Liberty owners club, "LOST" at www.lostkjs.com to see the similar kind of information on wheeling and vehicle comparisons. (and great photos).

Liberty is around the same price point, too, I believe. I got my renegade loaded for around 24, but I had a lot of discounts, I think the sticker put it close to 30. (you can get them as low as 16 I think if you want previous year bare)

Good luck on the purchase!

(also - are there any trail-ride groups around the new england area? PM me if you ride, I'm always looking for more groups and trails to ride)

This is the best most productive thread Ive read so far since I started looking around to beef up my 03 X. Rock on.

Actually, most Jeep owners (much like most Xterra owners) around here are posers who never go offroad. I asked a local Jeep owner if he had ever been up Gold Camp Rd (graded & improved dirt road suitable for an Accord). He said "Hell no, I'm still making payments on this thing!"

So I guess the average person would just be comparing a 4-door to a two-door grocery getter.

very good last point. i definitely will be in the grocery getting category for a good while. i don't care either. i'd like to armor it up first (which will take a bit). i'm content with my choice. this truck is badass.

what the hell is the deal with folks worrying about the percentages of females buying xterras? makes me feel good. damn. girls have GOOD tastes in looks.. this is obvious. and besides that... who gives a crap??? the xterra looks like a killer, it's powerful as hell... HIGHLY offroad capable (even right off the lot), and ... they're just badass like i said. i'd still buy it if i were the only male to ever buy one.

roll xterra roll.

Well, not all Jeep owners are posers. Until this past week, I was a proud owner of a 2004 Jeep Wrangler Sahara.









I towed mine with my motorhome. It was easy to modify for this feature... and was designed to be towed (just read the owners manual for details).

I've had mine in water up to the edge of the hood. No mods at that point. The only upgrade I did later was to swap the Goodyears for Goodrich (major difference).

For serious off-road ability, my Wrangler was a much better choice than an Xterra, sorry. That's the truth. Both mine and the Rubicon use 4-11 gears. The Rubicon added lockers, and would flat leave even a highly modified X behind. Look at the difference in weight. If you don't think an extra 1000 lbs will slow you down going through mud, well, you've probably never really been in it. I swear my Jeep thought it could swim through swamps.

If you're looking for one of the most capable vehicles for off-road use, and the most supported vehicle by the aftermarket, then the Rubicon is an easy choice.

That said... I no longer own my Jeep. Why? Well, a number of reasons. Fuel economy was terrible. Never got higher than 15 MPG. HWY, city, hard top, soft top, no top, A/C on, A/C off. The 4.0L had plenty of power. But once on the hwy, it would step into O/D, and have no power. Too big of an O/D gear. Touch the throttle, it would jump out of O/D, and go like hell. But once in O/D, it was a dog again.

The newer coil suspension was much smoother than earlier models. This also increased articulation. The iron inline 4.0L is as tough as they come. Well proven. My aunt has over 300K on her Jeep, still going strong. In the year I had mine, I put 32K on it. Not a single problem.

Stock Wranglers make it through the Rubicon trail. That silly "Trail Rated" badge isn't fluff. Open the hood, climb underneath. You won't find glitz on these. Just big, clunky, hard working parts. Comes stock with Dana Axles for a reason.

I like going off-roading. But I don't go as hardcore as the Jeep was capable. It was more vehicle than I needed. I think the X is a nice blend of a very capable off-road vehicle, and a very nice hwy vehicle. Kind of the best of both worlds. Yes, the X will go some amazing places and do some amazing things. That's one of the reasons I bought mine. But even the full up version of the 4WD model isn't in the same category as a Rubicon Jeep. It isn't meant to be. Completely different market.

Chances are, if you haven't been off-roading for years, you'll likely never use either vehicle to it's limits anytime soon.

As for Jeep owners being posers. I'm sure some are. The first week I owned mine, I left permanent scars in the paint from going down narrow trails, and mud & water up to the tops of the fenders... Love my X though

First off, welcome to the forum, n00b.


Secondly, I won't disagree about your statement about jeeps being more capable out of the box, especially, Rubis.

Jeeps do have some liabilities that I, for one, don't like.

Jeep: Dana 30/35 combo ====> shit
My Xterra: IFS (front)/ 33 spline, 4.90 9.25" R&P STOCK!

Jeep: Cheapo steering that breaks all the time (even in the rubis)
Xterra: Cheapo steering that breaks all the time

Jeep: Needs lift or spacers to fit 32" tires
Xterra: Fits 32's stock

Jeep: Short wheelbase, sometimes an advantage
Xterra: Medium wheelbase, sometimes an advantage

As somebody who wheels frequently, I can tell you that Jeeps break all the time. I see broken Jeeps about 1/4 times I run a difficult trail. I've pulled stuck Jeeps out of jams as have other Xterra owners.

Your opinion is a popular one, but I love my X. Once I put my D44 in front (& 35s all around), a rubicon will just be another "stocker" to me.......



Like I said, welcome to the forum. But spare me the elitist Jeep bullsh!t.......

.

While I'm on a tirade, one last thing.....

Trail rated? L-O-L

my thing is.. folks are always saying jeeps are "better" than xterras offroad.. sure.. they are technically "better" offroaders. but i've said this before. in order to find a spot where a jeep is BETTER than an xterra at offroading, here's what will happen.

you leave work. hook up with your Xterra buddy, go hit the trail (perhaps camp or whatnot), go down the trail further (depending on how long the trail is) and you'll both be there side by side of course.. then, the jeep guy goes "HEY, look at the supersmooth rock over there. i think i'm going to go climb that sucker.. the one that your ifs can't handle.. you know, since i'm cool and you're not." to which the Xterra guy replies, "man, i suck so hard. a complete idiot i am. i should have bought the jeep so i could hit that ONE rock that he's hitting. man i'm so jealous. i guess i'll have to console myself with better gas mileage... and about double the storage space i guess. man, i'm even sad about the towing capacity.. that doesn't do much for me. oh, and my interior sux ass compared to the jeep. not to mention the fact that my car is unoriginal and ugly compared to the jeep."

highly modified jeep vs highly modfied xterra is nearly equal badness offroad... save except for the different advantages of wheel bases. SO, they're not that much more capable. certainly not when you sacrifice all of the stuff mentioned above. now, what IS cool are the doors coming off, and the top coming off. that's sweet. although, here in Alabama, that would be murderously hot in any season other than winter.

FWIW, the Rubicon, the Unlimited, and the Rubicon Unlimited, come STANDARD with DANA 44 axles.

Also, the local Jeep Dealership will install lift kits and massive oversized tires, and the package will carry a factory warranty. It's amazing to see a brand new Jeep, already tricked out with lots of aftermarket parts, and have a modified window sticker. Oh, if you would prefer lockers, bigger tires, lift kits, or different axles on ANY Wrangler they sell, you can have the dealer "upgrade" it before you leave the lot. That's Jimmy Vickers (http://jimmievickers.fivestardealers.com/) on Merritt Island FL if you get a wild hair. They have lots of new modified Jeeps on their lot.

By comparison, I'm having a hell of a time even getting a hitch from my dealer for my X. Forget about them offering any real upgrades at a Nissan dealership.

In EVERY major off-road challenge, you'll find some form of a Wrangler. They are so easy to modify, and parts (chassis, bodies, every single piece of running gear, etc.) is only a phone call away. I don't ever remember seeing a single Xterra in any of those challenges.

I love my X, don't get me wrong. It's also a well built, very off road capable machine. But the Wrangler is 1000 lbs lighter, and some serious off road hardware is already included (read the specs for the Rubicon). They are so easy to modify... even a dealer will do it! The Jeep is so waterproof that it has drain plugs in the floor, and is designed to be hosed out. The computer is in a sealed box at the very top of the firewall. Set a garden hose loose in your X, see what happens.

Don't mistake my comments for a knock against the X. It's a completely different beast from the Jeep. You don't see "cute" decals about Nissans for the Jeep for a reason... they aren't in the same class. Out of the box, the Rubicon is a more capable vehicle. Can you modify a stock X to out perform a stock Rubicon? With enough money, sure. Can you also modify the Rubicon even more, yes, and the parts are much more readily available. Would I take my X 4x4 the same places I took my stock Wrangler... no way. I had water up to the tops of the fenders in the Jeep. If water would have made it past the door seals, wouldn't have been an issue in the Jeep.

Enjoy whatcha drive.

Jeep Elitist what? I didn't say anything more than YOU JUST DID!

Haha

Things I don't like so far for using my X offroad (versus, yes, a Jeep): No place to put a high lift jack under a bumper. Unable to install a winch without replacing the entire front bumper. Wussy skid plate up front.

Things I do like about my X for offroading: Good stock ground clearance. Smooth underneath, no obvious snag points. Gobs of power. A real low range. Solid rear axle. Full sized spare tucked underneath. 4 wheel disk brakes. Recovery point up front.

Ain't nothin' perfect. But as an all-around vehicle, the X comes as close as anything I've seen.

For me and my wife the Wrangler was not practical. It's size for one thing is just too damn small. Even the Unlimited was way too small. I ALWAYS have the back end of my X full of work gear that I have to carry incase I need to respond for an emergency. There is no way around it. While a Wrangler would have been nice to have, it just didn't fit my lifestyle other than off-roading.

The lack of cargo space has always been an issue for Wranglers, but being the most widely aftermarket supported vehicle, there are lots of accessories for hanging stuff on top and out back. Just look at the ones often seen on long trail rides. Lots of junk "hanging" on them.

But... sure is nice to have everything inside, dry, and easy to get to.

The Wrangler has a lot of pros and cons. It isn't in the same market with the Xterra. Different class of vehicles. Plastic versus steel bumpers should be the first clue... Besides, there are 3 other (non-Wrangler), bigger models, if you really wanted a Jeep. I like the quality of Nissan, always have.

I just wish Nissan USA would offer a diesel option, as Jeep did for the 2006 Liberty. Betcha we see Nissan coming out with a diesel option for the 2007 models!

I just bought '05 X OR, stick and will have my '02 Wrangler Sport up for sale as soon as the X is rigged to be towed behind my motorhome. Got the Jeep primarily to get me to otherwise inaccesible trail heads. (I hike and backpack.)Also tow the Jeep; but if I had to drive the Jeep on the highway more than 200 miles, I'd park the damn thing beside the highway and hitchhike the rest of the way. Jeep's uncomfortable as hell! And with the Back seat out will hold two full backpacks....barely. I't s single purpose vehicle as far as I'm concerned. X can perform all the functions the Jeep did for me and and do so in lots more comfort.

An Xterra has a steel bumper, too. It's just covered in plastic. (which is almost ripped off mine)

Well that steel bumper won't help when you (in the TJ) have the incredibly weak Dana 30/35 combo. A Rubicon with a lift and upgraded steering is nice, but not just any TJ.

If you spend some time looking around this forum, you will see plenty of pictures of Xterras completing hard-core trails.

If you think Nissans are so inferior offroad I welcome you to attempt obstacles like Cleveland Rock (Holy Cross), Tip-Over challenge (Hell's Revenge), White Knuckle Hill (Pritchett Canyon). All of the listed obstacles have one thing in common. They are extremely difficult for SWB vehicles to conquer. All have been conquered by Nissans.

Like I said, Xterras and Jeeps alike are driven mostly by grocery getters and dirt road drivers. Just because the Xterra happens to be useful doesn't make it as outclassed as you suggest.

IMO the only Wrangler worth considering is the Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited.

Regular Heeps just break too much.

Who said the X was inferior? If I felt that was the case, why would I have purchased $28K worth of X? Duh! Don't get yer knickers in a knot hoss. I tah-ray-ded my Jeep for an X. Money was not an issue, my 05 is paid for. Not to brag, just keeping things in prospective. I also looked at H3s. I did not buy an X to save money! My 04 Jeep was already paid for too. Cost me $9K to get the X.

I've stated nothing but facts. The Wrangler comes with heavy duty steel bumpers. If I still had mine, I'd gladly do a push test against your bumpers, and see who cries first when the plastic starts flying. For any semi-serious off-roading, the plastic has to go. It'll be thrashed in no time, as you've obviously discovered, and it ain't cheap to replace, is it?

The bumper is strong enough for a tow mount so the Jeep can be pulled with another truck, or behind a motorhome (as in my case).

Okay, lets say you start out cheap and decide to buy a Hi-Lift jack instead of a winch. Whatcha gonna put it under to lift your vehicle?

The Jeep was also designed to have handy little gadgets like winches mounted to them. These are bolt-on. The Jeep doesn't require an entire new bumper (made of steel this time) to put a winch on.

In 3' of water, is your altenator underwater? Will your rig survive if the door seal fails? Here's a hint about the Jeep... the stereo faceplate, speakers, and seats are waterproof (well, resistant anyway). The floor has drain plugs.

FWIW, the Rubicon comes with Dana 44 axles. Furthermore, Dana 44 axles, lockers, blah blah can easily be ordered from anyone of of the many companies who support Jeeps. Don't kid yourself. I've owned Nissans since 1995. I know how difficult and limited it is to find aftermarket parts.

Alright, so you decide you don't want a Rubicon, but still want lockers and Dana 44s on a TJ. No problem, these are DEALER ADD-ONs. Jimmy Vickers on Merritt Island will upgrade any of these such items, and give a full trade in on any parts... before you ever roll off the lot. They also come with a full factory warranty. Any of your add ons come with coverage from Nissan? Could they void your warranty?

I'm still trying, I do stress TRYING to get a hitch for my X. Dealer couldn't do it (recall), the aftermarket shop couldn't do it (Valley recalled).

As far as some Xs going on some serious trails, great. Do a search on Google, add a trail of your choice, then add Jeep. You'll see tens of thousands of hits. Seeing an Xterra is more the exception, rather than the rule, unfortunately.

Yes, a long wheelbase is a plus when climbing over some tall obstacles. It's a hinderance on tight trails though. Some buy the Unlimited for the longer wheelbase, some more diehard owners stretch their frames. You won't find any benefit to a longer wheelbase here in Florida. Less weight and wider tires are a big plus.

Love my X, don't get me wrong. It's a very capable vehicle, but even as others have said, the Jeep is more capable out of the box. What I've added, and you must have missed it, is that not only can the X be upgraded, but so can any Jeep. The parts are cheaper, much more available, and easier to install on the Jeep. Sorry if this is tough to accept. Give me your address, I'll start having the many Jeep accessory catalogs sent to your house. I no longer need them, but it might give you an idea of what I'm telling you. You could literally build a Jeep from one of these catalogs (frames, bodies, running gear, wiring, electronics, etc).

Is the Wrangler a better daily driver? No. Does its 4.0L have the power of the Nissan, not even close. Does it have the passenger and cargo room of the X, nope. Does it have anywhere near the fuel economy of the X, no. Are they both capable vehicles, YES. Will most of us EVER push either one to the limits, NOOOO!

I've owned both. Rather than just downplay a vehicle some have never even driven, I'm giving a prospective from experience. I never said the Xterra was incapable of going on any trail, but the question was asked about an X vs a Jeep, presumably out of the box (new).

Xterra probably has the largest (offroad) aftermarket of any SUV currently on the market. If you are having trouble getting stuff, it's because your vehicle hasn't been out a year yet.

I push my X to it's limits all the time, and thank god! Somebody hasta pull out the stuck Jeepers.......

The only reason you don't get stuck is because you think sandy dirt roads is offroading.

Just one of our many "sandy dirt roads". See ya on the trails, maybe.

Jeff, please don't take this the wrong way, but you're spouting a load of bull.

I love my X, but it definitely doesn't have "the largest offroad aftermarket." 2manytoys already told you that you can practically build an entire Jeep out of aftermarket components. He was not joking. There are tens of catalogs, and thousands of websites, devoted entirely to Jeeps. The aftermarket for the X is not even on the same scale. We're lucky to get a front and rear bumper and a lift, while the jeep folks can easily and cheaply buy new axles, trannys, entire bodies, COUNTLESS suspension, lift, and steering components, etc...

Even my F250, that I traded in when I got the X, had a much larger off-road aftermarket than the X.

Here are just a few of the bumpers available for the F250 (what I found after a 5 minute search):

http://www.roadarmor.com/ --my favorite
http://www.offroadalloys.com/
http://buckstop.biz/index.html
http://www.aluminess.com/
http://www.randyellisdesign.com/FAB%20PICS%20AND%20STUFF/
http://www.uteltd.com/pages/bullbar.htm
http://www.reunel.com/products.html
http://www.arb.com.au/ford.htm

Like I said, that's what I found after a short search. I'm sure there are many more. As for the X, we have 2 choices (and that's probably all we'll ever have).

Accessories after market size for SUVS/Trucks:

1. Jeep
2. Jeep, Jeep, Jeep!
3. Thats right, Jeep!
4. Did I remember to mention the Jeep!

5. Ford Trucks
6. Chevy/Dodge Trucks

...somewhere down the list...

-. Nissan Xterra

Where's the truck conversion for the X?
http://www.roadarmor.com/ra3/summitsut.html

BTW... There are way too many jeep parts and accessories websites for me to even begin listing them. I googled "jeep off road" and got 2,180,000 results. I also googled "xterra off road" and got 66,900 results.

We're all here because we love our Xs. But please stop saying things that are so totally untrue that they will completely embarrass any rational Xterra owner.

You guys all rock. I love XOC and enjoy modding my X (as much as possible). Jeff, sorry about the rant, but you were just wrong on this one. The super-gay jeep-bashing pictures don't help either.

C'mon guys, you all seem to forget this is an Xterra board... of course there are going to be bias twards Nissans.

I love the X more than most of my family members.

We all chose the X on that day in the dealership, not because of it's capability, but because it appealed to us in some form. Wether it was the Nissan commercials (which still make me giddy when I see them), the unique style, or what ever, we all picked it for some reason. Me personally.. I also chose it because there was a strong brotherhood of X drivers, centralized right here on XOC, crazy bastards that love this truck as much as I do.

It comes down to:

Buy a jeep if you want to be like every other schmuck out there, just a number

Or buy an X and be one of the few, the proud, the Nissan Enthusiasts.

How about something a little more realistic:

-Buy a Jeep if you want a pure off-road vehicle, with an extremely developed aftermaket that can provide you with any part imaginable. Unfortunately, you lose all the creature comforts, fuel economy, on-road drivability, etc...

-Buy a X if you want a great off-road vehicle that is also extremely capable on-road. The X was not designed to be a pure off-road vehicle (a.k.a. Jeep). There is a post somewhere on this board which says that the majority of X owners are women (most of which would never imagine taking their truck off-roading). I believe this demographic is much closer to that of Grand Cherokee owners; so if you want to compare the X to the GC, have at it.

Personally, I would never buy a Jeep for the reasons I listed throughout this thread, and many others. I love the X and when I'm done with it, it will be an extremely off-road capable truck. I just don't pretend it is what it isn't (and was never meant to be).

-There are many great reasons to buy an X; but pretending that you are better than the Jeep crowd is not one of them. They're just gonna laugh at you for driving a chick truck.

So then you are saying that Jeepers are better than people who drive Xterras? Interesting.

It seems to me that there is no "better" one. It's all a matter of preference.

dude are you kidding? is the jeep better offroad than the X, possibly, depending what its doing, if offroading you mean ripping up ruts with 38-40inch tires so no one else can use the trails, ok ill give jeeps that, chick trucks? umm i believe out of every 10 modded jeeps i see, at least 6 of em are chicks, plenty with the "jeeps are for girls silly!" tire covers, and the "cute" girly sayings, as for the X, well lets see, i can sleep in it, carry all my gear, go and actually wheel without tearing up the trails (not saying all jeepers too, but many that i've talked to all gloat on how they were ripping up the trails making huge ruts) and its comfortable for daily driving, long highway use, im with WolfmanX, there is no "better" offroader, just what you make of it, and i honestly have NOTHING against jeeps, they are awesome offroad rigs, but when you come on and start making fun of Xs calling em chick trucks, and saying the Xs arent as capable, well i can list plenty of links for girly accesories that is made FOR the jeep, and plenty of pics of Xterras doing exactly what jeeps do

Why is this thread even still here?

Exactly!!!

So we have somthing else to do other than work?

OK, you got me there! Continue on with this thread! I can't argue with getting out of work!

this thread is still here because either:

A: this topic is/was a huge factor in MANY X buyers decision when purchasing it

B: many X buyers have a massive inferiority complex (which is absurd but true) (this also adds to their inept ability to stay in a conversation with a jeep owner...now they'll have ammunition.

C: helps folks to truly recognize the fair differences between the two, and they all want to get out of work all while being mentally productive towards their X.... and they're foaming at the mouth to go offroad.

D: let's face it, we're all interested in this because we want to know exactly how close our X is to performing like a Jeep offroading, and other opinions help us understand our truck better.

SO, to those that option B applies to (and deep down you know who you are, it's ok to admit it), RELAX guys . UNDERSTAND the differences of our two vehicles. If you are so eager to prove yourself, and feel inadequate in an X, go buy a damn Jeep and stop worrying... but don't be an elitest dick. Spare the ones that have no complex and would way rather own an X. Pick a side I guess, I don't know. Otherwise, you help make this topic truly worth while... so keep posting, it's fun.

i'm still totally a newbie... never been offroading. but all these truths are very obvious, clear and easy to understand. i recently bought an OR black 4x4 05 model. i'm waiting on some more money to start my modding, but i'm in no rush yet. been talked into sliders first, then serious underarmor, then i think tires lastly. (probably wuss out on the wait and get my delta flow 40 pipes somewhere at the beginning though).

can't wait to start!

Good luck! It only gets better from here!

im late responding to this thread because i thought it was a dumb topic, but anyways i have an idea, get an XTERRA with wranglers on it




i just dont understand why anyone would ask that type of question here.

im sure you dont have people jeep boards ask if they should buy a jeep or an X..

its kinda like going to a chinese resturaunt and ordering a cheeseburger!!!

:rolleyes:

... and plenty of pics of Xterras doing exactly what jeeps do...















Again, the Xterra is wonderful, does a lot of things a Jeep will do, but I don't think you'll find too many Xterras doing what all Jeeps can do. Keeping it real...

Wait 'til 2007, and get a 4-door Wrangler... It's coming soon...

You've got to be kidding me... Somebody is actually touting Nissan aftermarket options as a PLUS?? Are you retarded? Just asking. Because if you compare the only two vehicles in that list that compete w/ the Nissan (4Runner & Liberty), and decide to pick strictly on the available aftermarket, if Nissan even comes in anything other than 3rd, then you can answer that question with a firm, "YES!!"

Nissan's aftermarket is the weakest of all the offroading SUV's. The Escape, Sante Fe, Highlander, and Equinox (isn't that a mini-van w/ regular doors...?) aren't offroad capable rigs. They're street/sport SUVs, NOT street/offroad SUVs.

And if you want to compare the Liberty & 4Runner's aftermarket, then the 4Runner has the most, followed by the Liberty, and very slowly limping in at 3rd would be the Xterra.

But then again, maybe you've never heard of all the Jeep & Toyota aftermarket companies. There are 3 main aftermarkets for Nissan. I can't even count on two hands, the main aftermarket companies for Jeeps and Toyotas.

Tought the abilities of the Xterra (good on street, good on trail), but don't try to say we have a great aftermarket! We pay approximately double the price for similiar upgrades, and we have less options available to begin with. That's not good aftermarket; that's a painful aftermarket. Yes, it's getting better. But it's got a very, very long way to go before it catches up to Jeep & Toyota.

Retarded? That's pretty lame, man.

Regardless, I'll call bullsh!t.
Not true, not true, not true.....

Old Generations of 4runners have strong aftermarket. The new generation's options pale in comparison to the Xterras options.

You're stuck in the past, bud. Out of all the recent (2003+) vehicles I listed, The Xterra has the best aftermarket options. It might take a little bit for the '05s to catch up, but the die is cast.

The reason I listed all the grocery getters is because they are comparably sized & priced 4-door SUV.

We're talking about SUVs here. So you can stop being a Jeep/Toyota whore. The vast majority of aftermarket on those is for CJ/YJ/TJ, and old yota pickups not SUVs. The older generation 4runners and Cherokees have good options, but that's history.

As for CURRENT PRODUCTION SUVs, the Xterra is the only choice for a decent aftermarket. The Libby has options but is a unibody piece of sh!t.

I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble understanding that current models need to be compared to each other, not compared to '85 4runner options......

Jeff,

You obviously missed the point, again. Yes, these were highly modified Jeeps. Read slowly... these parts are READILY AVAILABLE. Can you buy such parts for your X? Can you get this kind of articulation from your X?

As for camping in your X, great...



Don't know about the capacity of this roof rack, but the one I had on my Jeep was 500 lbs, unlike the 125 lb rating of the one for the X. This one is much beefier than the 500 lb model I had.

Your problem is you can't accept that the Jeep is more capable out of the box. Nor can you accept that Xterra is WAY down on the list of vehicles supported by the aftermarket. To even suggest the X has any support versus a Jeep is silly. How many Xterra exclusive aftermarket catalogs are there? Is there even one??? A single page flyer doesn't make a catalog!

Oh, here's a fairly stock Jeep for ya:



Helluva grocery getter, eh?

If you have to knock the competition, it doesn't say much for your rig. I don't know of any Jeep owners bashing X owners. You go figure out why.

Love my X, but I know it has far less support, and without modifying it, it isn't as trail ready as my Jeep was. I don't do extreme off-roading, and my X will certainly do anything I ask of it... But the original question was asked, and without getting knickers in knots, I answered the question. Having actually owned both, I at least have some real world experience. I'm not knocking either one, just trying to keep the BS from swamping the facts. :p

Psst, nobody said your vehicle sucked... you assumed that. If I didn't like mine, I wouldn't have bought it.

And I'm not sure how you don't know of the options for the liberty. Even if it is a "unibody piece of shit", like you think, it still has a stronger aftermarket than the Xterra.

Proof positive, name 2 manufacturers of differential gears available for Nissan... Heck, name 1 manufacturer that isn't a division of Nissan...

I think the X is a great SUV, and a moderately capable offroader. Off the lot, it's just as capable as any other SUV that's "offroadable". That inclues the Wrangler, Libery, 4Runner, and any other SUV you want to discuss. I'll agree with you on that.

But if you're talking about aftermarket, then the X just plain isn't in the same league. And if you want to discuss the newest versions of each, then the X really misses out, because other than coil spacers, there's not yet a single manufacturer of a lift kit, for the '05 model Xterra. The 3 aftermarket companies for the X all say "Coming Soon".

But if I had a new model of the 4Runner, or if I had a Jeep Liberty or Wrangler, I could go out and take a pick from DOZENS of manufacturers of lift kits. Or gears. Or body lifts. Or body armor, etc. Like it or not, that's the way the market is.

I think reading previous posts would be a good idea before replying.

The Xterra has the best offroading aftermarket of any current model SUV. That's what I said; that's what I meant.

Jeeps are OK. If they didn't break all the time I'd probably like them better.

The Xterra os a better offroad rig IMO.

Since you've obviously never even been offroading outside of a sandy road or some mud, I welcome you to bring any rig you want out to Colorado. Once you get on a trail, you'll only be ten years away from having the experience it takes to speculate on this matter.

I don't care for Jeeps because of the short wheelbase, the lack of a decent interior, weak stock axles (non-rubis), and the lack of a decent place to sleep.

The Xterra is a better trail rig in 99.9% of scenarios. For trails that require more modification, theres plenty of mods available for the X.

Modding any vehicle is expensive. So why waste all your $$$ on a jeep just to be like everybody else..........

...Besides, when you hit a steep hill in a SWB rig, you get

The Wrangler's not an SUV.

A 2003 X vs a 2003 4runner, the X has better options, period.

For the Libby:

There's no body lift kit (obviously)

No SAS kit

Limited bumper options

.

Talking about mods that haven't come out yet on a brand new vehicle should be taken with a grain of salt. The aftermarket on the '05 has every indication that it will be even stronger than on the Gen I's.

Like I said. The Xterra has the strongest aftermarket of any mid-sized/compact SUV on the market. I stand by that statement.

How is the Wrangler NOT an SUV? It's ALWAYS been an SUV.

You've got to be kidding me...

And you're right. There isn't a SAS kit for the Liberty.

But there is a 7" lift, long-arm suspension kit. For less $$ than the '05 Xterra's 5" suspension lifts will cost (as estimated by their manufacturers).

There's also plenty of options for a regular lift kit, in the 4" range, for under $500.

There's also t-case gears, differential gears, and underneath protection, from several different manufacturers. All for lower costs than anything you can get for Nissan.

And whether you like unibody or not, Jeep proved it can be made VERY well, with the XJ. So just 'cause it's unibody, doesn't mean it's necessarily bad. I've seen plenty of tricked out Xj's on trail. Most of which are even more capable than the SAS'd Xterra's, just because of the aftermarket support.

Well, mine never broke, and having owned it for a year, and spent actual time talking with other owners in person and online, I sure didn't read about them breaking their Wranglers either.

Yes, SWB has some downsides. But so does have 1000-1500 lbs extra weight, much of it being up high:



So get a LWB Wrangler.

Heavy rigs suck in the mud.





Well, I have been to Pismo beach a number of times, lived in AZ for 3 years, been to Utah, New Mexico and Colorado numerous times (including Engineer Pass). Also been off-roading in GA, and TN.

Wahoo, the Xterra is the most widely supported SUV. But compared to the Jeep, that ain't saying much. Like having a single sheet of available mods versus an old Sears catalog... sheesh!

Maybe you should read the TOPIC again. Wrangler vs. Xterra.

I don't havta read about it. I see them on the trails.

If you do trails like Engineer pass they're fine. But anything difficult will snap those axles in a NY minute.

So your stock axles are stronger than the stock Dana 44s on the Wrangler Rubicon? These are also available on all Wranglers, right from the dealership with full warranties.

Yes, my 33 spline 9.25" R&P axle (4.90 gears) is stronger than a Dana 44. D44 is still a decent axle, tho.

----

Porsche:

While we're on the subject of XJ's.

They're nice cuz they're light, but I've seen suspension compnents ripped right off that wimpy unibody. The unibody also flexes like a mofo under articulation. Sometimes it seem like the windows are about to "pop".

My biggest point is, an offroad rig is only as good as you build it. Stock vehicles simply cannot complete the most difficult trails. Even a rubi doesn't have enough ground clearance to really get over big stuff.

I have an essentially stock Xterra that I have beaten the sh!t out of and it's still going.

There are lots of good options for Xterras for those who want to build them.

If you put equal dollars into an Xterra and a Rubi, the Rubi will whoop ass. No doubt about it. How much $$ (total, tires et al) is a SAS for an X? Do you realize how many mods you can do to a Rubi for that amount?

jeep has been around for what 50 years, it damn well have better aftermarket support than a vehicle thats been on the market for only 6 years. xterra is in it infancy as far as parts. as it should be.

jeeps are jeeps not suv's, that term hasnt even been around long enough for a jeep to be classified as an suv.

the jeep was concieved as a vehicle for ruff terrain, the xterra was designed to go from on road to offroad.

all in all you cannot compare the 2 with each other, it would be like comparing a corvette with an escort. :rolleyes:

I would imagine that any unbiased person would realize that he's wrong when the claims he is making about the X are overwhelmingly refuted by other X Owners. No offense, but we're not in the business of putting down our own trucks. You simply leave us no choice.

Here's what we're going to do:

1. Order the following catalogs (They are free)
http://www.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/sgdynamo.exe?HTNAME=freecatalog.html
http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stor...catalogId=10101
http://www.acmejeepparts.com/cgi-bin/sgdynamo.exe?HTNAME=acmecatalog.html
http://www.4wd.com/ordercatalog/

2. Take a day off of work (you'll need it).

3. Read to your heart's content (the first catalog is over 300 pages)

4. Come back here and we'll discuss the Jeep aftermarket.

BTW..If you can send me a link to a Xterra catalog, I'll be more than happy to order it. I've been looking everywhere and you obviously have a source I don't know about

....Until then...I'm signing off.

i took your advice and re-read the title and realized that maybe you are the one that should be taking your advice, cause that is not what the topic title is.

btw any one can post pics of any offroad vehicle in fucked up situations.

jeep has been around for what 50 years, it damn well have better aftermarket support .

i thought i already said that

my idea,

if you want an x go to an X related club.
if you want a jeep then go to a jeep related club.

everyone buy what you want and have a nice big fat glass of STFU.

has any one started this same topic on a jeepers board to see what kinda shit it starts there too.

This is the kind of statement I can comment on. You're 98% wrong. Why not 99? Because I give the credit where it's due to the Rubi's (in all seriousness). Recognize Chris Mc, the highly modded X vs highly modded Rubi is hardly different.

The thread wasn't meant for Stock vs Stock of each sort specifically...nor was it meant to discuss Highly modded vs Highly modded of each vehicle specifically. We're talking about the entire spectrum of the argument.

*although, ultimately we should be talking about average costs of the folks that mod at a high level, but not the folks that could make their X an 18 wheeler with a BBQ grill and a pool on the back because money is not an issue*

Wheelbase is really the major difference, other than torque/power. Another major difference, which i think i've mentioned before, is where the electronics are built on a jeep.

Basically, I could go on forever... but to avoid that, I'll just stop at you're plain wrong (not to be a dick man), but I'm a newbie and it's obvious that each vehicle are amazing offroad beasts.

Now, let's stop getting all
<------ and ------>
and get a little more .

Let's make valid statements and arguments, all while learning. This thread has probably taught me more than any other on the stuff I'm all about knowing. This forum rules.

I dunno about that, your 04’ was what 24k+ ? Then add other 6k for the long-arm kit, steering, skids, drive shafts, bumpers, tires, etc and all of sudden you have 30k+ invested. I have around 35% of that invested into my dual locked 2k SAS X on 34’s.

Even if I were to buy used like I did with my X, stock rubis are like 16-17k and modified ones likes Neds old one go for 21k which is still double what I have spent. Plus then you don’t have the fun of actually building something as much or driving something that is more unique

Getting back on topic the X does have a fair amount of weight, sheet metal, glass, etc exposed and up high for the tighter canyon trails and whatnot. The SWB’s without the tops all this stuff tend to have a easier time. Not to mention the interior cages and options.

Hum, who’s going to have the 1st full-on tube cage on a X? [Roll, fenders, engine, rear quarters, etc]

The way things are tearing on mine, it's crossed my mind before :rolleyes:
Throw one of these on there..

Of course, I'd have to keep my roof rack

????

Jeeps(CJ/YJ/TJ) have the best aftermarket support. I never disputed that.

Why don't you try reading the post your replying to instead of perpetuating miscommunication.

Just because you're too much of a primadonna to take your X offroad, doesn't mean that other people don't...

I will repeat for the FOURTH time:

The Xterra has the best aftermarket support of any mid-sized/compact SUV on the market.

I never said I was unbiased, btw.

You DID dispute this fact and there are 10 pages of useless posts from you to prove it. Here's what you said on page 7:

And on page 9:

Please go back and read your posts as you seem to have forgotten your own arguments.

On the other hand, I'm glad that you've finally come to your senses (at least partially).

Quote:

Just because you're too much of a primadonna to take your X offroad, doesn't mean that other people don't...

I will repeat for the FOURTH time:

The Xterra has the best aftermarket support of any mid-sized/compact SUV on the market.

I never said I was unbiased, btw.

Ok, so now you're saying 2 opposite things in the SAME post. You can't admit that, in your own words, "Jeeps(CJ/YJ/TJ) have the best aftermarket support," and then claim that the Xterra has the most support at the same time. It's either one or the other. BTW, you can add the Liberty, the Cherokee, and possibly the Grand Cherokee to that list.

Anyway, the X has has enough for most off-roading needs. As I have already told you (amnesia again?), I do off-road. I bought my X for off-roading and intend to go as often as possible. I actually did a bit off-roading with the salesman before I bought the X (scared the shit out of him) and went off-roading the day after buying it (even got a flat tire...there's a post somewhere about it). I have Shrock sliders and the bumper on order.

I would like to get some more things for my truck but you still haven't posted the site where I can get that Xterra catalog with all the many aftermarket accessories you seem to think are out there. Link Please!?!

In the meantime, Please order the Jeep catalogs. I went to the trouble of finding them for you and they are free. You will find out that, even though the CJ/YJ/TJ have the most support, ALL jeeps are supported.

Thanks a bunch...

By the way, here is the definition of primadonna. Go read it and I can guarantee it will make you feel all tingly inside.

yo! ADRIAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!

hey i think you missed the part about him saying "SUV" in most of his post, in no way shape or form did he ever say that the xterra had more support than a jeep...he said more than modern "SUV"s. see there goes that term again. say it with me "ESSSSS,uuuuuuuu,vvvvveeeee"

and for the last time im telling that a jeep is a jeep and not a fricken SUV...

and since your so much into definitions here are 2 more for you:

Main Entry: 1jeep
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from g. p. (abbreviation of general purpose)
: a small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase, 1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in World War II; also : a similar but larger and more powerful U.S. army vehicle.

Main Entry: sport-util·i·ty vehicle
Pronunciation: 'spOrt-yü-'ti-l&-tE-, 'sport-
Function: noun
: a rugged automotive vehicle similar to a station wagon but built on a light-truck chassis.

Jeff, STFU, you are embarrassing the rest of us...

Yo Clueless!

We're not talking about the Jeep as an Army vehicle. We're talking about a civilian vehicle; so find an appropriate definition. Since you can't seem to put 2 and 2 together, I did a little research for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_SUV
http://www.answers.com/topic/sport-utility-vehicle

And here are some examples of actual usage:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38720/
http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/pricing/05/suvs/jeep/
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/jeep/wrangler/suv/compact/index.html
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=2906
http://www.roadandtravel.com/roadtests/buyersguides/2003buyersguide/sportcute/2003sportcute.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=772771&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=389451
http://spyphotos.autoblog.com/entry/1234000270053527/

In fact, to be completely honest, I couldn't find a single automotive related website that didn't say the Wrangler is either a "small" or "compact" SUV. I don't know where you got the idea that the Wrangler is not an SUV, but all of the automotive sites on the internet disagree with you.

Bottom line: Jeff either can't figure out his terminology, or he's got a severe case of alzheimer's. He made 2 completely opposite claims in the same post. Trying to help him out by making more bogus claims does not add anything of value to this discussion.

EXACTLY. If you see the picture posted in the response before mine of the Jeep upside down, you'll understand why I posted a pic of an upside down Xterra. Hey, 1 point to you... you actually got it.

FWIW, the new 2005 longer Xterra has a wheelbase of 106.3 inches. That's 2" longer than the previous model. The Wrangler Unlimited has a wheelbase of 103 inches. Gee, 106" or 104" (depending on which year Xterra) vs 103". If you're in an area that LWB is an advantage, there is a LWB model Wrangler (even in Rubicon trim) available. The longer wheelbase discussion is hereby ended.

Anybody have a link to the Xterra accessory catalog? I'm still waiting for it too.

Some of you are obviously new to owning a Nissan. I never found many accessories for my new 1995 Nissan P/up or my new 2000 Nissan Crew Cab.

FWIW, I was the first to post online (my website) how to find which air shocks would fit the Crew Cab. No shock manufacturers were supporting this model, even years after it first came out. I contacted the various companies, and none could help out. I was also the first person to add a Snugtop topper to their Crew Cab that had roof rails. I spent several weeks working with the company. The company took pictures of my truck during the install. Face it, Nissan keeps changing the models drastically every few years, so the aftermarket will NEVER have a big offering of accessories for YOUR model.

The great part is Nissan keeps improving their trucks (which is why I keep buying them), the downside is aftermarket companies aren't going to invest a lot of time & money for a niche market.

Somebody mentioned Jeep has been around for 50 years. Close, it's actually 60 years. That's just the civilian market. Made even earlier for the Military. The CJ-5 (1979 Model) body design was almost unchanged for 29 years. History lesson here: Link.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the aftermarket to suddenly offer tons of goodies. Ain't gonna happen. In a couple of years, if Nissan holds true to form, they'll change the model once again. The bad part for me is I seem to be on a 5 year buying cycle for Nissans...

Right on 2manytoys!

I love the X. I have the sliders now, and once I get the bumper and a lift, I think I'll be happy from the offroading standpoint. Would it be cool to have a bunch of other options for each of these items plus a lot of other things? Yes! Is it likely to happen? NO!

What these guys have to understand is that the fact that Jeeps have more support dosen't take anything away from our Xs. The X is still an awesome vehicle that is better than the Jeep in many ways (but not in all ways). Why can't we be happy with what we have without putting down someone's else's ride?

Exactly! That's why Car & Driver and Motor Trend don't do comparative road tests between ANY 4-Door SUV and the Wrangler. The Wrangler is not an SUV and most people don't refer to it as such. Even though the wikipedia page features a picture of a Wrangler, it's definition is contrary to that:

Regardless of what someone's interpretation of SUV, I know enough to determine that an Xterra is a better trail rig for me. I keep listing the reasons, but all of the Jeep whores who never wheel keep "sucking off" the Wrangler.

You keep twisting my words, but if you go back you will see that everything I have said is true.

Jeeps are fine. But they require a lotta $$$ to become real hardcore rigs. Somebody who owns a modded Jeep is nothing special as they are ubiquitous.

I wheel with both Yotas and Jeeps. We all agree with one thing. The Xterra is the only new SUV worth modding.

Sorry, Ty. I don't take orders from people who live in fear of embarassment.....

I disagree with everything except the color of your Xterra!

Jeeps, like Xterras need mods. It's all about how much of a sheep (or not) you want to be.

Come on, JeffW... You've got to admit. This is one "unique" Jeep...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jeep-Gran...bayphotohosting

LMFAO!

Let me see if he'll take my X on trade!

Who's the Jeep whore who never wheels? Me? Think not. Read again where I've been. I started off-roading in my '73 Chevy Luv (Isuzu) and my buddy had a Datsun (aka: Nissan).



I was getting my vehicle stuck in the woods back before you got zits. :p

So? But the point is they CAN be modified EASILY, and for far less money than the Xterra. And there isn't a single Xterra out there that's in the same category as a highly modified Jeep.

Jeeps come with roll bars and steel bumpers. Winches are bolt-on. If it flips over on its side, the damage is FAR less than it would be on the Xterra. The Jeep isn't water sensitive like the Xterra is. Those are facts. That doesn't take away from the Xterra being a great trail rig. Just a different classification. Either, in stock trim, will go on "most" trails.

No argument there. But there's a reason why there are so many modified Jeeps. They can be, done so inexpensively by comparison, and it's easy to do.

Again, no argument. Unfortunately, none of my buddies around here own Xterras. Maybe mine will earn respect in time with my crew. I'm planning a hunting trip and some general off-roading/plinking trips shortly...

That's not what it's all about. Its about availability and cost... and untimately what you can end up with.

Face it, nobody on this forum bought an Xterra for extreme off-roading. There are several reasons for that. But that doesn't take away from the Xterra. The Jeep was designed for the trail. It was from the beginning. It was a tough transistion to convert it into a decent daily driver. But Jeep did accomplish that when they switched over to coil springs in 1997. Despite what some think, my 2004 Sahara was a good daily driver. 32K in 1 year gives you an idea that I spent some time actually driving it. I also towed it a couple of thousand miles, and those miles don't show up on the odometer. The first week I owned it, I drove it through 3' deep swamp water.

The Xterra is a better choice for me. I drive on mild to very moderate trails these days. I didn't always. I wouldn't risk damage to my Xterra by driving in deep water like I did my Jeep. While you may think off-roading in FL is nothing more than sandy trails... some of us know better. I've been in your neck of the woods a few times. Give me a shout when you come this way. I'll set up up with a buddy I've been wheelin' with when I had my Jeep. You can play follow the leader with him. I'll bring the camera. I'll buy you a steak dinner if you don't get stuck... I'll buy him one if you do.

Hey, enjoy what you drive.

As for Jeeps not being SUVs... where do you think SUVs originated from?

Brooks Stevens' woodless Willys Jeep station wagon was designed in 1946 and stayed in production until 1963.





In the early 1950's, one thousand Willys Overland Jeep Station Wagons, a popular civilian family car, and the first true SUV, were purchased, outfitted in olive-drab paint and distributed to various Army hospitals for testing as litter-carriers.





There are many kinds of "Jeeps". Not all were made by Chrysler! Not all look like Wranglers. But they all share the same heritage. Jeep was the inspiration for the modern day 4WD SUV, like it or not.

The Jeep Wrangler is only one model of Jeep. I am not sure if Jeff is arguing that the "Jeep" is not an SUV or if the Jeep Wrangler is not an SUV.

I agree that the Wrangler is not a SUV.

Though the Jeep Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, Liberty and Comander are SUVs.

Why in the world are y'all claiming the Wrangler is not an SUV??

Because it only has 2 doors? Both the Cherokee and the Ford Explorer, as well as the Ford Bronco II and Chevy Blazer, came in models with only 2 doors.

Because it's small?? Again, it's not any smaller than any other small SUV on the road.

I don't get it.

The Wrangler is the same size as a Liberty...

If it's not an SUV, then what, pray tell, is it? It's not a "Jeep". That's not a vehicle classification, it's an auto manufacturer...

Of course the Wrangler is a sport utility vehicle. Just as the CJs were ALL SUVs, even before the modern SUV class was even invented.

Edmunds says the Wrangler is a compact SUV, in the same class as the Liberty:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/jeep/wrangler/suv/compact/index.html

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/jeep/liberty/suv/compact/index.html

Kelly's Blue Book says the Wrangler is an SUV:

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.nyrm?kbb.KY;;KY111&40213&&;;nc;suv&Jeep;Wrangler

I just don't see any proof that y'all have more automotive insight than these two companies... So if they say it's an SUV, then it is...

Bullshit. Jeeps have been known to lengthen their wheelbase to get around 105". How much do you think that costs?

I may get stuck, but it won't be the Xterras fault.....

The bottom line..

I do....

Yup, most people do agree with that.

Actually, not a penny more. I could have bought the Unlimited (aka factory stretched Jeep) for LESS money than what I paid for my SWB. I didn't like the look, and didn't need the LWB. You obviously missed my other post. The Unlimited version comes with 103" wheelbase. Yes, some with older Jeeps stretched their frames. Jeep was paying attention, and offered a factory version. Actually, the Unlimited version was a bargain because it included a hard top and a soft top. I had to pay extra for my hard top.

And before you head down that path, there is an Unlimited version of the Rubicon (Dana 44s, lockers, 4.11 axle gears)

Ok everyone, I posted in this thread back on like page 3, since then I haven't posted anything, let alone read this monstrosity of a thread until last night. I wondered why it just kept getting longer and longer.

First, let me tell you what a Wrangler IS. A Wrangler is a LIGHT DUTY TRUCK. At least that is what Daimler-Chrysler classifies it. Underneath the hood of a Wranger is a sticker stating this much.

Second, Jeff, I don't know you, and after reading posts by you in this thread, I don't want to. People always complain that "Jeep people" are a$$holes. Jeff, you're an "a$$hole" in this respect. Not all Jeep people are a$$holes just like not all Xterra people aren't.

This thread is nothing but petty, futile, asinine comments made by both sides. I would hate for someone to come looking at this thread actually looking to compare the 2. I'm embarrassed, as both a Wrangeler and Xterra owner.

That's right, I drive and WHEEL both....a TJ and X. I owned the X first. Got a feeling for wheeling, then bought the Jeep. Why did I buy the Jeep. I bought a Jeep b/c I wanted a "go anywhere rig", and I got it. Could the Xterra have been my "go anywhere rig"....YES, it "could" have. But buying a used jeep that I could "beat the crap out of" and still get to work the next day (in the Xterra) was the way for ME to go. Building up a Jeep and building up an X are two different things. A Jeep is MUCH, MUCH cheaper. I can flop the Jeep on it's side or roll it onto its top and still be able to drive it. That's hardcore. If I did the same thing in my X, sorry, I'd have to go to the autobody shop. I WITNESSED a SAS'd Xterra roll over on it's top. After all that time(it took like 2 or 3 years for the build), and all that money invested (this was pre Calmini), and beeing a 2001 w/ less than 30K miles on it in 2005, it was TOTALED. I could have made the Xterra trail only, but financially it was more "sound" to buy a trail only rig. I guess I could have bought another Xterra for "trail only", but it would have been too expensive to go through another X build up. I'm not saying a Jeep is better offroad, but I WILL say that it's more ECONOMICAL to take offroad....especially the more "hardcore" you get. I have a trade off, I have a great daily driver that sees some trails, and a great trail rig that sees some pavement. I would not ever imagine daily driving my Jeep b/c of all the mods done to it.

Yeah... I don't really trust Daimler-Chrysler's interpretation on what a vehicle is, or isn't... A PT Cruiser is also classified as a "Light Duty Truck".

The only reason this rating exists, is because it's an EPA Classification. These classifications have been updated, and now the Wrangler is included in the newly formed classification "SUV". Prior to 1999, SUV's didn't exist before, for fuel mileage classification. Now they do. And new Wranglers & PT Cruisers are included in the SUV class, and no longer the Light Duty Truck class.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byEPAclass.htm

Actually, I think this thread proves that many Jeepers are elitists and many Xterra owners are Jeep whores.

If you want to call me an a$$hole just because I mention facts, go for it.

The bottom line is that a highly modded Xterra (or Toyota) can hang with a modded Jeep no problem.

I'm not gonna just sit here and listen to that crap without presenting my side.

If you want to disagree with me, then retort. If you want to call me an a$$hole, then you're certainly no better than anybody posting the assonine sh!t in this thread.

It still amazes me how upset people can get on Internet forums.

Jeff, other people are presenting facts too and you choose to ignore them.....example, a wrangler is a SUV.

I'm not about to get into a "pissing match" here and this is my last post in this thread.

I DO NOT DISPUTE that "The bottom line is that a highly modded Xterra (or Toyota) can hang with a modded Jeep no problem." Each has they're strengths and weaknesses.

The fact that I call you an "a$$hole" stems from the inability you to look past your Xterra. Remember, I am an Xterra owner as well. I have encountered a$$hole Jeep people while wheeling it. At the end of the day, they were impressed and recinded their comments. They learned to look past their Jeep.

Jeff, I am not a Jeep "elitist". I'm a Jeep "realist".

ALL, yes ALL 4 wheel drives (including the Escape) will handle offroad driving. To say, for example, that an Xterra is better offroad than a Liberty, that is asinine. If anyone can back up they're comments, then make them. Meaning, you've driven both vehicles offroad w/ the same mods or in stock form. Ok, so the Liberty doesn't have as much interior room......so when was the last time that you had the rear of your X COMPLETELY filled up, making use of all available space.....and how long was it filled to the brim....one drive? Everything that I have ever put in the rear of my X and had to fold the seat down, I would have had to do the same in the Liberty.

I have SEEN a NEAR STOCK GEO TRACKER out perform a heavily modded Xterra. And the Xterra driver is one of the best that I've seen. Strength v. weakness. So, am I now a "Geo elitist"?

[caps lock]I RESPECT ANYONE WHO TAKES THEIR RIG OFFROAD. EVERY VEHICLE IS INTENDED FOR A PARTICULAR BUYER.[/caps lock] You may ask, why buy a Wrangler when an Xterra is a much better choice?...or....Why would anyone compare these two?

I would take that as a compliment if I were an Xterra driver if they wanted to compare those two.....Why not compare it to the Liberty. The fact that they chose to compare the wrangler to an xterra shows something about taste....to me anyway.

edit: also in my last paragraph I "should" have said something other than comparing a "wrangler" to an Xterra. It goes for ANY vehicle....lets just say "4runner"

Not just amazing. Hilarious. MountainX dude, i don't want to go back on my browser, so i'll just call u MountainX dude,... love the post. This was a really good addition as an accurate presentation of applicable facts to the Wrangler vs Xterra topic. (did my grammar just shoot off the charts?)

anyway... there's no need in getting insane over this. the point is, both rigs rock ass.

here's a good point for you Jeffdude. I see myself buying perhaps a used jeep... one that was previously owned by a girl hopefully, then max it out for trail riding. why? because my Xterra, while being anything i want it to be, is not the vehicle i want to destroy on a hardcore trail. why? it cost me 28k.

the point i wanted to tell u was, haven't you ever wanted one of those cheap ass beater cars like a honda crx or whatever JUST to rag the hell out of it, do parking lot donuts...burnouts, and just seriously beat it? well, take that idea, and just used it towards wranglers. (not to call them cheap cars you wrangler suckers!) but i LIKE my X.. i want it to LAST me and drive well. when i tow something with it, which i do from time to time with business, i want to know that it's not going to take the rear bumper off because of abuse.

another valid point, my vehicle isn't insanely gas efficient so far. under 2k miles still, but averaging 15 mpg...and i drive very, very conservatively. so, putting HUGE tires, and LOADS of heavy ass armor for the trail sounds like a good way to destroy my efficiency.

*btw, does anyone have any idea of how much that stuff will hurt my gas mileage? numbers would help*

Jeep has been making two door, straight axle, open top four wheel drive vehicles for what, 60+ years? I would hope for their sake that they have gotten good at it. That evolution from the old CJ3 to today has also created a bizillion aftermarket options.

The X? 5 years. Not much history there.

Jeff. When you say a modded X can keep up with a Wranger, the real question is: What does modded mean? To an X owner a heavily modded vehicle goes to the extent of an SAS. For most , the average off-road equipped X means a modest 3 inch lift to clear 32 and possibly 33 inch tires. Based on the imperical evidence on this board, there are just a handfull of pre-05 X's running larger than 33inch tires.

Compare that to what is considered a lightly modified Jeep. Strengthened axles, Detroit lockers, 5 inch plus of lift to clear 35+ in tires ect. How many Jeep have been fitted with a roll cage Vs. Xs with cages? I only know of one caged X. Running 35's on a Wrangler is also considered pretty average as well.

So, taking the "average" modded X with 32's stock axles and a modest 3 inch lift, it is a pretty big reach to think that that is on the same level as the "average" modded Wrangler off-road taking things like trail difficulty, traction and rock garden size into consideration.

The "average" Wrangler would be much more likely to excape the same trail with less damage and do it in less time. That's just how it is. If you want to factor other things into the equation like seating capacity, storage, hauling, towing, comfort , zero to 60 speeds, breaking distance ect. then the X might come out on top. But as a pure trail vehicle the X will fall short.

XMountaineer, there's really nothing to support your argument that a stock Liberty is a better trail or off-road vehicle. The Libby suffers from the same limitations that the X does in regards to IFS ,axles size, tire size maximums and wheelbase. And once you start talking about an SASd Libby, it really does not have any advantages over the SAS'd X.

Your thoughts on your Jeep and it's abilities make you come off as a bit arrogant since a stock Jeep is really just a little better than average. The essence of the Jeep is that it is stripped down to the basics and your ability to flop it has more to do with the fact that there really isn't much to a Wrangler and so since they are cheap and basic they are a lot less expensive to roll. Disposable doesn't necessarily mean better. Just cheaper to replace.

For that same reason the Wrangler is so easy to dent without conscience contributes to the same factors that make it a big compromise when it is pressed into duty as a functional daily driver.

your random bullshit is boring me

I thought my last post was the one before, but I can't have people saying lies about what I wrote.

I NEVER ONCE said that a stock Liberty was a better trail or offroad vehicle. If I said anything about it, I said that it was CAPABLE....or COMPARABLE. I have not, and WILL NOT "dis" another vehicle b/c it was someone's choice to buy it to wheel it.

Also, my point about being able to flop the Wrangler on its side was meant to show that it was less expensive to drive on the trail. I have a full cage on my TJ....I feel safer in it offroad than I do my X....so shoot me. I would feel a lot worse if I rolled my X than if I rolled my TJ. For the money, I could not beat the deal I got the Jeep for. If I could have bought an Xterra modified the same way for the same money, it would have been a tough decision. It didn't have to be a Jeep that I bought....I was also looking at Samuri's. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT I BOUGHT A "RIG" FOR ONE THING, AND ONE THING ONLY....I COULD CARE LESS THAT IT'S A JEEP. I did not want to continue to pour money into my X to make it "hardcore", then I would lose a daily driver or have to worry everytime I took it offroad, or pass up obstacles.

You're right. Logic can be dreadfully boring sometimes. Sorry for putting you to sleep.

I now realize this board has a somewhat wider demographic than most of the other forums I post on.

SteelX: For your benefit, from now on, I will try to stick to posts beginning with the following exclamation:

"I Love my X!"



------------------
Ya man! The X just rocks my world!

*cough* ALR *cough*

oh, and Jeff, you're being ignorant, so perhaps I should have said you're embarrassing yourself...I don't live in fear of embarrassment, I just feel bad for you...

Well, whatever.

Cuz all I said was:

I think it's a fair assessment to say that the person being ignorant is the one commenting on posts they haven't read....

As a person who has owned both vehicles I can say that they both have their advantages and dis advantages. The X was BY FAR a better daily driver. I cannot fit a whole heck of a lot of gear in my Jeep but luckily my wife doesn't camp so I only have to pack for me. That just means the dog doesn't get to go.

As far as a modded X being able to keep up with the modded Jeep off road, I invite you to try and follow me up the Hammers in Johnson Valley and then we can talk about it. Is that bad? No. The two different vehicles were just made for two
different things. I think a SAS's X has a chance to do it but it would be tough.

I am in no way putting down the X. I loved mine and miss it often but I had taken it as far as it could go. I wanted a more capable off road vehicle.

Also, as far as Jeeps breaking, mine has yet to break ANYTHING and I have done the hardest trails you can think of.

Couldn't we all just agree that some of us just have different uses for our vehicles and just enjoy what we have.

Jason

BTW, thanks for posting. "Dirt road drivers" Jeep-whorin' was getting old. At least your speaking from real experience.

My bet is that Nissans have probably been up the Hammers. I think Xtoolbox has been up.

An SASed/locked X can keep up with a Rubi no problem.

I'll let you know when mine is done.

SCCX has had 5 members go from modded X's to Rubicons. And it's not that we hated our X's. I loved my Xterra- it opened up an entirely new lifestyle for me. The 3 obsessions that I currently have geocaching, offroading, and camping I owe to my Xterra. Now that I have my Rubi my offroading and caching have continued to advance- the camping however sucks in the Jeep.

My highlight in my Xterra was the GOX Colorado Crossing- an event I don't think I could've done in the Jeep because of lack of storage space.

But wheeling in the X really took its toll physically on the vehicle. I beat the shit out of it early in my offroading hobby. It took a while to learn not to use too much gas pedal. Since I can't do my own repairs I spent a lot of money in the shop instead of on mods. That has changed with my Rubicon. The same trails that used to be difficult with the X are a breeze in the Rubicon. I've yet to have to make a single repair to it. (Knock on wood)

I just wish that I could've afforded to have both. The X for long trips (although having to put Premium Unleaded in my Supercharged sucked even when the prices weren't skyrocketing) and the Rubi for the local trails.

As for the lack of respect the Xterra gets from the Jeeping community- it ain't anything personal. There's a lot of jeepers who don't think any IFS, nonlocked rig belongs on the trail. It isn't just the Xterra they dislike. In fact I think they have more respect for the X than the Liberty.

The best thing to do is go wheeling with other jeep clubs and show them how capable the X really is. One of the well built rigs in SCCX, OOX (Jason), wheels with a club called JustRuns in San Diego. They've got nothing but admiration for his rig and his skills.

My $.02,
Dave

I want my stock 80 CJ5 back.

That's exactly what an SASed Xterra is. The bestt of both worlds...

Guys, seriously... You all are just repeating yourself and nothing more. Advantages and disadvantages of both have already been mentioned, there's no need to post that the X is better on road than the Jepp - we know that.

Let it go Enjoy what you have. How freaking hard is that? A good healthy argument is nice but the same thing over and over, and over, and over...

Ok Im a noob too, well at least to xterras...i previously had a gen I montero with 33's and a lift...looking to suppliment my vw with a x in the near future....relocating to the mountains...i have a few questions for those who dont mind answering......what years were the xterras produced...was 00 the first year? Were all 4x models produced with limited slip rear ends? is there a factory locker model...or do you have to go the ARB route...what is gas mileage stock? what about with, say 32/33's my montero had 33's and got 10-12 mpgs, please tell me the x's are higher...i finally sold my montero for 3500, it had 300k on the original motor...do these rigs get that milage with proper maintenance....what engines are available i assume most 4x's have v6s, if so what size..did nissan ever make a 4 banger turbo or a diesel model? whew thats enough for now....hopefully i will get some answers rather than a do a search function...becasue search is down..and i may by an 01 tommorow....thanks in advance

Jeez man, the search function deserves a work out but here's the briefing:

The X went into pruction as a '00 model. Not every X has a limited slip rear end. Mostly SE models came with it, although there are some exceptions like the enthusiast package in 02+.

There was no factory locker option until the '05 came out. ARB is the only way for not on older models. Gas mileage stock is about 14-17 mpg in the city with a V6. All 4wd Xs were V6. The mileage with 32's or 33's will be anywhere from 10-14 mpg depending on whatever else you have on there.

Yes, with proper maintenance these engines can go to 300,000 although I don't think there's anyone on here with that high a mileage. The most I have seen on here was a bit over 150,000. they are still driving, however.

Yes, the X was offered as a diesel 4 banger but not here, in Australia. There was no turbo 4 banger or V6, however 2002 and up were available with a supercharger. Mileage with a supercharger drops about 2 mpgs from stock regular.

Have fun and browse the forums. There's a lot to read here.

My coworker (soft-core jeep nut) claims his son's stock Wrangler X would run circles around my 4x4 OR off road. He keeps going off about mil-specs and BS like that.. According to my research, the OR Xterra has more power, torque, tire size, and clearance than the Wrangler X... AND I have a locking rear diff.

I really don't care, either way.. I hate the argument. They are both capable of getting the job done for the average person. As far as I can tell, the Xterra offers a more comfortable ride, more gear space, etc. (better features for MY life). Drive whatever you want!

I got both. the new X is too big to really seriously be used over rocks, but does everthing else better (and cheaper).

So... take him up on it. Lots of talk on these forums. Be one that'll take someone up on a challenge.

If he has a regular length Wrangler, he's already 1000 lbs lighter than you. The X is heavier, and much of it is sprung, making it top heavy. Did you also catch the part about drainplugs in the floor, the computer being in a watertight housing at the top of the firewall, the altenator being mounted at the top of the motor, and even the stereo being splashproof?

Serious off-roaders go for straight axles, rather than IFS. I'm into R/C stuff too, and here's a simple demonstration of an IFS suspension versus a straight axle:



Both vehicles have their rear axles firmly planted. Anything more would raise a rear tire. I show you, and others, this picture so you can see why straight axles perform better when climbing over obstacles. Having an extra inch of ground clearance is great, but having the ability to put a tire on the obstacle, and go over it, changes the game entirely. Do a little more research and you'll find out the new suspension on the Wranglers out performs most vehicles, even many older, modified Wranglers. It's VERY nible and has a lot of articulation. Oh, if you want to see a real world stock Jeep with this articulation, follow this link. Here's how an Xterra stacked up with the swaybar removed: Link. Compare the RTI (Ramp Travel Index) figures yourself, keeping in mind both vehicles are stock, but swaybars removed.

Be glad he didn't get the "off-road" version, or he'd show up in Rubicon trim, and eat your lunch. Yes, those come with factor lockers, front and back.

If you want him to respect your ride, then earn it.

FWIW, my girlfriend is looking at buying a new 06 Wrangler Unlimited in a few weeks. She really enjoyed my last Jeep. I might pay the difference, and get it in Rubicon trim. The X is MUCH more refined, gets better gas mileage, is more comfortable, more room, blah blah. We all own one because they are such outstanding vehicles. Great daily driver, but dontcha think "some" of these benefits come at some cost? You can't have your cake and it it too.

I enjoy trail riding, and I'm not a snob with either vehicle. But for those who doubt how well a Wrangler does, I hope to see some of you on the trails. My buddy thinks his old Range Rover (Jeep clone) is the best thing to ever hit the dirt. You'll be welcome to join us. Prove us both wrong.

2manytoyz just couldn't let sleeping dogs lie.

Sorry, but a stock TJ with 29" tires Won't present much of a challenge for an Xterra OR unless he finds a spot that favors the SWB.

Like we've hashed out 1000X over on this thread, A good rig is a built rig. 2manytoyz is the only one on this board that won't admit that a D30/35 combo is crap. Anybody who doesn't believe me is welcome to head over to their local Jeep board and pull up all the threads where they break.

Hey 2manytoyz. You can stop the the Jeep whorin' already. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.....

BTW, I learned on IFS...

...and Jeff is the only one who apparently can't read.

The Rubicon comes with what axles? You make it sound like there's no choice, a Wrangler comes with Dana 30/35s, and there's no other choice.

Any Wrangler can be purchased with Dana 44s, lockers, etc., RIGHT FROM THE DEALERSHIP.

Jeff, you know not of what you speak. Go lurking on any Jeep forum and see what the compaints actually are. You won't find many complaining about axles or steering boxes, as you so think. Yes, I participated on those boards too. Same handle, look it up.

I'd LOVE to have an H1 play follow the leader. We'll see how one of those fat pigs does in the soft muddy stuff here in FL. It's only 7000 lbs heavier than a Wrangler. That's probably why I've NEVER seen one off-road here.





Yea, you're probably right. Who needs front lockers and gobs of articulation. Those things mean nothing off-road. Neither does being much more mud and waterproof.



Jeff, I enjoy both vehicles. You're too narrow minded to accept your vehicle has any flaws, or lacks some ability. When you get a little older and wiser, you'll come to realize nothing is perfect. And what's funny is you haven't figured out that some of us just like to watch you get spooled up. :p


See no Jeep, Hear no Jeep, speak no Jeep. Can't hear facts, La La La, not listening, La la la.

Yeah.. I was talking about a specific stock Wrangler X sans locker... Not a Rubi, and not modified.. Sorry you missed that part? (I consider the picture of your toys as 'modified' due to the lack of toy body, and it's hard to tell what's going on with the frame on your solid axle toy example).. Considering SAS and other mods, once you start modifying, a rig is a rig, IMHO. I meant no offense to Jeeps, they have great potential.

There wasn't really a challenge involved.. the guy was just stating his opinion. Of course I'd take the opportunity to run trails with him and we'd both probably learn a lot.

My real opinion about the topic:
DRIVE WHAT YOU WANT! <-- Maybe you missed that part, too?

Edit: So far, in your last few posts, you've replaced a Wrangler X with a Rubicon or better, and looks like you swapped Jeff's H1 with an H2, as well? You say 'H1', but you show 'H2'? -- just asking. (No offense intended -- it's just frustrating when people try to change what someone posted.)

ssshhhhh, i hear KMOVING lurking somewhere. "im better than you, and if you dont believe me come find out" said in dumb voice.

Sorry again, bud.

You are the one who has posted pics of dirt roads. So keep yer dirt roads and mud pits. if you want to talk smack, I recommend that you come out here and do it near some obstacles.

Not only am I on the Jeep boards, I wheel with those guys. The built guys will tell you the same thing about your silly little Rubi.



So come out to CO. We aren't into your little pissing contest. Hell, we'll even help ya out....



Rubis are nice. But a stock Rubi or Xterra just isn't a good choice for a hardcore trail. The Xterra is a better vehicle IMO for the moderately difficult trails a stocker is likely to hit.

and I can take my mini van anyplace you can take your 4x4. Driver skill man.

"I don't care"

I'd have to say a pre 90 Range Rover, modded they kick arse. Coming from a family of Jeep owners, except myself, these things in stock form will always outperform an stock X. Add lockers to both and the Jeep will still go farther. SAS and the Jeep will still go farther (tire size limitations on the X, and axle limitation). Warranty running out on both and the X will go farther.

""Yes, the X was offered as a diesel 4 banger but not here, in Australia. There was no turbo 4 banger or V6, however 2002 and up were available with a supercharger. Mileage with a supercharger drops about 2 mpgs from stock regular. ""

Has anyone in the US done a conversion to diesel that you know of? I have had some problems with non-us engine swaps is the past...ie steering is rhd which could cause swaps to be impossible, do you know if it is a strait swap? Im going to assume the supercharger can simply bolt on to any other V6(the engine model hasnt changed thru the production line)

The search feature was down when I tried...it now works for me...so I will be using it more frequently...

but since you seem informed....do you know if there are any sources for factory manuals(repair not the kind that show you how to roll down the window) available online(pdf version)...or is dealer only for the big book?

None of that is true.

A Jeep with its stock 29's will have trouble following an Xterra with its 32s.

It's been done on Pathys, but I haven't seen it on an X. It's pricey.

Come on, Jeff...

Since when does tire size make that big a difference? Once you air 'em down, they're both only gonna' have a couple inches of rubber around the rim, anyways... Tread design makes a huge difference, so a stock X w/ BFG's A/T's will have better traction than a stock TJ with street radials. But that advantage swings back to the TJ Rubicon edition, w/ MT/R's.

In stock form, in my experience, it's an even match between a TJ & an Xterra. The X is slightly better on hill climbs, w/ it's slightly longer wheel base. The TJ is slightly better in the rocks, w/ it's shorter wheel base and solid front axle. But in reality, it's almost a wash, because a stock TJ can't do anything in the rocks that the IFS limits the stock X. And the stock X can't go up any more extreme an angle hill climb than a stock TJ. That's because they're BOTH stock.

Once modded vehicles come into the mix, it's a whole different ball game. But we shouldn't try to compare those, as build-ups can vary EXTREMELY between owners/builders. A good fabricator can make EITHER rig be as extreme as he/she wants. Nothing limits either, except time and $$. With enough of both, anything can be accomplished on either rig, to make them equally as capable, anywhere. True, you'll see a lot more highly modified TJ's (and jeeps for that matter) in the wilderness, 'cause they've been around longer, and they're a hella' lot cheaper, and more available. That DOESN'T mean an X can't be built up to the extreme; it just means there are less # of owners that are willing to do so.

Really, it's a mute point. We love our trucks but I'm not going to admit that they are better than a Jeep. That would be absurd, commonsense won't let me. Will our trucks do better than most suv's? yes. Will the heavily modded ones keep up with a lot of Jeeps? Sure. But they will never be better than a Jeep. One of the things we have going for us is reliability on our trucks, they sure as Hell don't have that.

Jeff. It is true a pre 90 Range Rover does kick ass.

No, I didn't miss it, I said just be glad he doesn't show up the the "off-road" version of the Wrangler. That's a fair statement since you have the "off-road" version of the X. Apples to apples, so to speak.

It was a real simple dispay of an IFS versus a solid axle. The models are different brands, and are often compared in R/C forums. The IFS is very fast and handles great, but the solid axles on the other model allow it to articulate. Both vehicles are at their max front wheel lift, just before one of the rear tires lifts. Sorry if this was confusing. But if you don't understand the difference between what IFS is capable off-road compared to a solid axle, you will never understand that having 2" more clearance on an IFS means little since the solid axle vehicles can simple put a tire on a rock, and climb up and over it. You don't need massive tires and vehicle bodies WAY up in the air, if you can get the tires to stick, the suspension to flex, and just twist and climb over the trail.

And unlike you guys, I posted what a real STOCK Jeep can do versus a STOCK X. See my last post. Follow the links, learn about articulation. Gee, NOBODY had a comment on THAT topic??? Yes, it's hard to argue with actual numbers.

You're talking about a lot of money to get an X to an SAS. Since you jumped in this thread late, you probably didn't read the comments about COST VERSUS AVAILABILITY. Two niche aftermarket companies support the X, all the others, worldwide, support Jeep. Consequently, Jeep mods are cheap, readily available, and are easy DIY most times. I wish the X had this kind of support, but it never will. This is my 3rd new Nissan, and in the past 10 years, I've always been disappointed with the upgrades available.

Nope, but you did. Read ALL my posts in this thread. I've said the same thing. I've also said the X excelled at a number of things, but not everything.

Since you've hopped in late, and hijacked the thread, please allow me to post the original comment... Does anyone have real experience with either a Rubicon Wrangler or another Wrangler package AND with an Xterra so they can give a VERY accurate comparison?

Since I've owned both, and will likely own both again soon, I am qualified to respond to the original post. Are you? Or are you armchair quarterbacking it like some others? I put 32,000 on my 04 Wrangler last year. How 'bout you?

No, I'm just screwing with Jeff. He likes taking pot shots, posting pics of Jeeps in bad situations. Read my other posts, you'll find that I shot back with other pics of Xs getting stuck and flipping over. Can happen to any of them willing to risk it.

But go back to the first post, read what he was really looking for. If you have any actual seat time in a Jeep, then speak up. Otherwise, well, it'll be taken as talking crap.

For Jeff, and others... you want a real comparison of the Jeep crowd versus the X crowd? Pick any of the many Jeep forums, look in their 4x4 type section, see all the 100s of threads. Come to our 4x4 forum, and read our pidly 14 threads on off-roading.

I love my X. I wouldn't trade it for my last Jeep, nor a new one. I look forward to having BOTH in my stable in the near future. Just don't kid yourselves into thinking the X does everything great, has no flaws, and is the best, out of the box, 4x4 there ever was, or you'll be very disappointed.

I can see that. Bully for you.

Look at what Porsche996, Xtoolbox, Alpine and lots of other guys who actually wheel are saying.

The simple truth is that trail rigs aren't bought, they're built.

What a sandy road driver like yourself says holds no water whatsoever, IMO. If you want to talk smack, I recommend you do it in the rocks. Talking about what you've read can't compare to what others have done and seen.

I can't believe you keep reviving this ridiculous thread to repeat yourself.

The bottom line is that you don't know anything about wheeling. When you're ready to learn, CO and UT are waiting for you.

Hey fruitcup, don't forget AZ!

Yes, I've been to YOUR State, along with many others... California, New Mexico, Utah, Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and I lived and wheeled in AZ for 3 years (Luke AFB).

You guys have it made out West. You can see the trail, it's solid, and sinking in muddy water up to your roof line isn't a real threat. Take a wrong turn here, you'll find out if your rig is waterproof. Seemingly easy puddle crossings can turn out to be a 5' deep mudpit. So, while you think FL is nothing but beach, it ain't. I've posted a picture of one of our trails (see page 7). No, a top heavy Xterra isn't going to make it down one of those muddy trails without a serious lift kit and monster tires. 1500 lbs of extra weight is fine on a hard trail like you ride on. Try that here, you'll be calling for help.

We used to have a local off-road park with a mud-bog event about once a month. The only thing resembling stock that ever made it was a Jeep. Everything else was too heavy, and even monster tires didn't help. I'll scan those pictures if ya want, but, you're still not listening... la la la!

So why don't you post some pictures of all those broken and stuck Jeeps you keep running across? Hell, as much as you hate Jeeps, there's no way you'd pass up the opportunity if it actually happened. I'm not talking about ones on other people's websites. Yes, Jeep do get stuck, but that's because their owners constantly push them to the limit. I'd just like to see a trail YOU would drive on, that a Jeep couldn't.

Again, ya don't own a Jeep. Others who've responded who did, had a VERY different view from you. So either everyone else is full of it, or it's just you.

And yes, I will likely go back to Colorado in the next year or two. In the meantime, come on down and ride our sissy trails.

And in the now famous words of Jeff himself...

Originally posted by JeffW:

Secondly, I won't disagree about your statement about jeeps being more capable out of the box, especially, Rubis.

Yes my friend, I couldn't have said it better. :p

Sorry, bud.

Driving through mud puddles isn't wheeling. When you're ready to learn, CO, UT and AZ are waiting for you!

Wheelin':


Whorin':



Like I said, n00b. You have plenty to learn before you can speculate...

BTW, a Sammi is lighter than a TJ. If you think that weight is the only issue to consider, go buy a Sammy!

Regardless, a properly built Jeep weighs plenty.

......

Request to thread starter:

Would you mind changing the name of this thread to "Jeep whorin' by somebody who has never wheeled"?

......

The invite is there, 2muchwhorin. Bring your D35 equipped TJ (comparably priced to Xterra) on 29's out here to CO. I guarantee that it's not as invincible as you think.

Trail rigs are built, not bought.

Jeff, you have to go for personal insults, since you have no facts to dispute anything I've said.
Everyone else read where I've been off-roading.

I didn't have someone holding my hand, guiding me along the trail, and taking my picture. Dang, that sure looked extreme. Smooth, dry trail with some rocks. Go get 'em kiddo!

Maybe a Noob on this forum, but been places you'd only visit via the web.

Yep, even a Samuri will go places in the soft stuff a heavy vehicle won't. The sad part is you can get more stuff for a Samurai than you can for an X.







Oh, Pssst, Jeff... my X was $28K+... That's the cost of a new fully decked out Rubicon. We're moving into our new house next month, probably get the Jeep shortly after that. No, I'm keeping my X. But, like I said, in the meantime, come on down and take a trip with us on our sissy trails. Oh, you might have heard on TV that there's some stuff here called swamp, pay no attention to that. Oh, and with the recent rains, the trails are underwater once again, making it fun. And if you decide to get hero shots here, make sure you can swim.

But back to the main topic, yes, I've owned a Jeep and an X. Both are fantastic, both have the benefits and downsides. I will be a proud owner of both and will tout the benefits of both.

jeff this is getting old,let it go, please stop feeding the trolls.

Agreed.

It just seems that there are 2manytrolls, don't it?

I gotta' say, Jeff, you're one of the trolls, at this point. Just keep repeating the same things...

I've tried and tried to let this thread die. 2manytoyz just keeps dragging it out of the ditches.

Sorry if I don't want the board full of bullsh!t posts from somebody who's never wheeled.

Yo Jeff,

I didn't start this thread. Nor did I revive it. balsaaaq first brought it back, then Karlan did.

I tried to steer the thread back on track by repeating the original question, and pointing out that he was looking to those with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE driving Jeeps -n- Xs. Since you don't, you're the one trolling.

You're going for personal attacks, rather than experience or facts, shows you have little to add to this discussion.

So I'm done with this thread. Facts mean nothing here, neither does actual experience. If you want to know anything about off-roading in general, or details on how a Jeep handles on/off-road, ask Jeff... he knows everything. He's been everywhere (if you count only Colorado, oh, and if you've been there too, that doesn't count). Sheesh.

I'll probably be posting pics on my website later this week of my trips to Pismo CA, Engineer Pass CO, and the Jemez Mountains in NM.

Whatever, troll.

I have experience with both. REAL trail experience. You have experience with neither. You've never even been offroad.

Engineer Pass? Don't make me laugh. I can drive that in 2wd.

Jesus Christ. What an ego you have. Someone that's owned or does own both vehicles says that a Jeep is more capable than an Xterra and you act like you are the offroading God (the thing a lot of us hate of Jeepers), all praise Jeff who has done everything and if you haven't done what he has you are a punk. Whatever. It's reasons like this that this board is dying.

2manytoyz.....just drop it, you will never get a point across to someone that isn't open to conversation.

Oh, Jeff. Yes, I've been in many Jeeps and I've got a modded X......You know what? The Jeeps still kick ass for a far less price. But comparing east coast to west coast is apples to oranges. Dry trails with rocks to generally wet clay with rocks. dirt roads to roads underwater. oh, dirt and rock again..to mud, sand, logs. It's different terrain and you wheel in the area that you live in. Glory be to God that you have the best area in the country to wheel in, but you know what? I'm sure all over the country people are out on the weekend having fun wheeling with FRIENDS in the area they live in.

ps. before you go mouthing off on who is a Jeep whore, why don't you take a big gulp of the glass you offered him. He is a member of SXFC (southeast xterra frontier club). You sir are a dumbass.

Jeff, all there is left to do is to challe nge them to a Breakdance fight.....I am sure you would win.

you've been served

There's plenty of nice Jeeps out there.

2manytoyz and you are the ones trying to Say that Xterras are a lesser choice for a trail rig. I'm not talking "trailer queen" either. I'm talking a trail rig that you depend on to get your a$$ out of the woods.

How 'bout this? I'll keep my Xterra, you can go get a Jeep. Jeeps have plenty of great things about them. I prefer an Xterra for a trail rig.

Yes, an Xterra does weight more. So do the Patrols and Land Cruisers that they use in the outback.

Like I said about 7 pages ago:

• Jeep: Dana 30/35 combo ====> shit
  My Xterra: IFS (front)/ 33 spline, 4.90 9.25" R&P STOCK!
  Jeep: Cheapo steering that breaks all the time (even in the rubis)
  Xterra: Cheapo steering that breaks all the time
  Jeep: Needs lift or spacers to fit 32" tires
  Xterra: Fits 32's stock
  
  Jeep: Short wheelbase, sometimes an advantage*
  Xterra: Medium wheelbase, sometimes an advantage
  
  *what makes the SWB especially problematic is that when it is lifted high enough to clear big boulders, it tends to flip backwards on steep inclines.

Anybody who is ignorant enough to think that Jeeps are the end-all offroad simply hasn't wheeled. I'm so tired of all this bullsh1t rhetoric when it really comes down to one thing:

Trail rigs are built, not bought.

Read the posts. While I may have been a bit indignant, 2manytoyz and you are the ones being elitists. Every rig has advantages and disadvantages. FWIW, if I were to build a hardcore "trailer queen", it would be based on an a 105" WB 1985 Toyota, NOT a Jeep.

Everything is a compromise. The difference between you two and people who wheel is that people who have been out there realize that different vehicles have advantages in different situations. So those of us who do wheel appreciate each rig for what it is, including its shortcomings and advantages. Those who don't know any better just sit around spewing a "this is better than that" idoeology.

Actually, elitists who discourage people from modding/owning Xterras are the ones who are harmful to this board. I dare you to go "Jeep whorin'" over at a Yota board. See what happens. This kind of BS won't be well received anywhere.

This community will stay strong as long as we encourage open minds and keep the Jeep elitism in it's proper place; the ALR.

You mean like this? (video)

There's plenty of nice Jeeps out there.

• Jeep: Dana 30/35 combo ====> shit
  My Xterra: IFS (front)/ 33 spline, 4.90 9.25" R&P STOCK!
  Jeep: Cheapo steering that breaks all the time (even in the rubis)
  Xterra: Cheapo steering that breaks all the time
  Jeep: Needs lift or spacers to fit 32" tires
  Xterra: Fits 32's stock

---

Actually...
An XJ could have come with a Chrysler 8.25 rear/Dana 30 HP front... Which is equivalent in strength to the Nissan drivetrain...

And I like how you dodged the whole IFS vs. SFA comparison... SFA vs. IFS, on comparably equipped rigs, will outperform IFS in EVERYTHING, except high speed whoops. So Jeep, which comes w/ a SFA, would have a major advantage over the Nissan, right off the bat, unfortunately.