steering being tested at ECXC!!!

Well I guess it's time that you all know that a new and cheap steering fix is being tested at the ECXC. It's completely different than anything though of so far. A few members in California have seen it and am very glad they have keep quit on the board. One of the vehicles is running 36" and all eyes will be on him I'm sure.
Ten systems have been sent there for testing. I have been running it for 4 months and still have a good centerlink. Oh ya the price will be around $150. After this weekend you'll get a full unbias review. As of now the only modifying may be only a little grinding. Depending on the first order parts may come a little slow due to me being my only employee and this is my second job. And my boss can be a complete a$$hole(me). I'll be wheeling at Hollister this weekend but will answer question till I leave.

First question..

who are you?

Second question..

are you or the shop who is making this product qualified or insured to be making steering parts?

Third question..

who are you again?

I can take #'s 1 and 3 - He's a NCCX member who wheels the *&^% outa his X.

I've seen the new contraption up close and I'm liking what I see so far.

The true test though will be the on-the-trail abuse that it needs to go through before calling it 'ready to ship'. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I'll let Marty answer the real questions.

I'm just another X owner that has broke 6 tierods and 4 centerlinks in a year and a half. I tired of wonder if I'm go to make it thorough the trail with only 1 tierod. My set-up doesn't change or replace any of the stock steering, it only prevents the centerlink from rotating up. No I'm not a company I just have the tools to make this part. If you don't like my product or want it that's fine. I'm sure one order won't bother me.
Later, when I have time I'm looking at a rear dual shock set-up with rear leveling capability and longer shocks.

Damn, man you are breaking a lot of parts! 6 tie-rods and 4 centerlinks! Are you trying to jump the X over boulders? I guess we all have different driving styles...........

Well, to let everyone know. I just got back from ECXC. I didn't buy the setup, but I saw it. It may very well solve the problems. It was being tested on a different variety of trucks w/ different mods and on different trails. So give it anout 24-36 hours and maybe we'll see some reports.

Very cool setup though. Nice and quick install.

Look forward to hearing about it!
John

$150? You have my attention...

You are breaking a bunch of parts. Sounds to me you are beating the shit out of your Xterra.

I look forward to seeing what you have done.

Sounds good

I have the new setup in my X now, and it works GREAT!!!!!! I went into ECXC with a worn center link, and a worn idler arm. it took me about 20 minutes to install it on the X, and I am truly impressed. Last time I was out, I bent a tie rod adjustor because of the worn parts. Now with this setup, everything went fine, and trust me, I beat the hell out of it!! I'm still going to replace my center link, and idler arm bushing, but with the new steering addition, I'll be able to finally wheel confident that the parts won't fail on me.

I do have some pictures, but I just got in, and have to unload the X first.

By the way.....what do you call this thing??? Center Link Guidance System?????????

You're saving me alot of money now by producing an affordable solution for our steering problems. So PLEASE keep beating the shit out of it, so you can come up with more affordable solutions for weak components Please tell me you've fried a few altenators too!!!!!!!

No modification of the centerlink or idler arm is done at all, it's all bolt on. I too as well have the set up and it performed great, my weekend of wheeling was cut short as I punctured a sidewall but the set up is rock solid.

Hurry up and post pics already.

Since when does a sidewall puncture cut your wheeling short? Put the spare on and you're back in business, unless of course you're worried about losing another...

Brent

The spare was damaged at GOX and was not up to the task. The other spare was a long trail that doesn't mix well with swampers.

You have this thing about blowing out sidewalls..10 months since GOX and you don't have a spare?

Stop letting Oleg pick your lines!!!

The tire was patched but it did not hold, sorry I don't buy EVERYTHING that is available for my truck and bolt it on...I have a six month old son and another on the way and THAT is way more important than spending money on my truck.

I am going to tube both tires now, I am not buying a replacement when my next tires will not be the same size.

Oleg did not pick my line at GOX, I did after walking the trail and my spotter placed me almost two feet from where I wanted to go. At ECXC two other trucks also punctured a sidewall on the same hill...we still are not sure what did it.

NOW back to the topic at hand: Pictures, there were plenty taken and they will be posted soon...most of us were out wheeling all day today and then drove home so in the next day or two there should be plenty more info on the new steering setup.

I was one of the other LUCKY few to install this steering upgrade at ECXC. I was really worried about bending a tie rod or even worse messing up my centerlink. I am totally stock up front aside from a Very minor torsion bar tweak for my ARB. I am currently running 265-75r16 Trxus tires on 16X8 AR-767 rim (5" b.s.).. I ran pretty hard and had NO problems at all with steering after the install. In fact I didnt notice ANY difference in the way ,my truck steers or handles, maybe a little.. My tie rods, center link and (braced)Idler arm are all in great condition, Never replaced.
So far, all I have to say is THANK YOU TODD!!!!
And I'll be ordering a set of EOE tie rod adjusters and I think the front end will be fine for a while.
I'll post pix once my X is cleaned up.

thanx all that tried the Guideance System. With out a real test like you all put it thorough I probably would still be the only one running it. At the moment I'm not positive it will work with the Frontier, but will be looking into it along with the rest of the Nissans, after the Xs are taken care of.
It's late now and I'm so tired from 3 wheeling, I mean 4-wheeling, at Hollister with a few other Nissans.

This has nothing to do about getting the latest thing put on your truck.

Having a proper spare for off-roading is not a keeping up with the Jones thing..

It does have to do with having your truck ready for the trails you are going on. For you not to have a full sized spare (a requirement for most all runs that I have been on with ANY group) you subjected the the people with you to unnecessary hassle. Not to mention that if your donut spare had failed you would have had to "borrow" someone elses spare leaving them high and dry.

Bad form.

First of all DROP IT from this topic, your constant bullshit about changing the subject on threads is getting old! Take it somewhere else and make a link. I DID have a fullsize spare, the patch did not hold...I could not tell if that would be the case until I tried it in a real world situation. The Long Trail I borrowed from someone else ONLY to get me back to the campground...know ALL the facts before you open your trap!

END OF DISCUSSION WITH YOU.

Please no one else respond to his shit.

Learn to read.. I did not bring this off topic.. I just pointed out that it was unsafe and bad form to be on the trail without a proper spare.

Well now you know..

Shit is how you originally responded to me. I still don't see the relationship to having a good working spare with putting the latest and greatest thing on an Xterra..

CArLton mcMillaNI: I was not the one who spoted Todd into the rocks, check the tape ( you still have that GOX2 tape ? will it be out this year? )

It was just a joke OlEg..

To me, that looks like he's checking the clearance of the Waag to the rock, and from the angle of the tires, he's trying to get the passenger front tire up on that rock also.

Oleg's crouched down so he can get a better view, but his hand is held up high so the driver can still see him.

What do you see wrong in that picture??????

If you thought it was bad spotting at the time, why didn't you help a fellow X'er out, instead of just taking a picture of it???

What you don't see is what happened next.. oLeG directed him to where he was stuck on that rock. He did make it down under Olegs direction but he was scraping things left and right.

FYI.. the correct line was about four feet to the left as you are looking at the picture. The drivers side tire should have been where the rock you see about to impact the WAAG is. ANd it was possible to go down and up without touching any part of the Xterra to any rocks. (Ian did it right after Todd blew out his sidewall)

Thanks Rich,
Carlton, plz do tell me whats wrong with that picture

I was just trying to see if Waag will clear the rock, and i was giving hand signals to the driver, keeping my hand above his hood, so he can see it

and if i remember correctly He did not get stock on the rock, waag cleared it , and then he climb on it with a passenger side tire, just as i planed it

You directed him directly onto the rock. He was scraping parts all the way down. If you remember.. the correct line was about 4 feet to the left as you are looking to the picture.

I wasn't there, so I don't know the complete situation, but 4 feet to the left would have put the truck up on that slope, causing the truck to hit that rock off camber. From what I can see in the picture, I would have taken Oleg's line there. It's just my opinion, but I would rather be level and taking an obstacle, than off camber while taking it. If Ian made the line to the left, that's great. Ian is an experienced offroader, with a modified X. From the looks of that black X in the picture, he's pretty much stock, except for mabyee AT's

I apologize for taking this thread offtopic too, so back to the steering system....it works GREAT!!! I have a couple of pictures, but won't have them up till later tonight...I'm off to work now.

so back to the steering discussion please....

CArLton mcMIllaN (read caps )
yes he was scraping FRAME all the way down, so your point is ?

The correct line is the line that will get you down/up wiht out damage

Geting back to the stering topic
I was not able to install it on the camping this weekened, i will be doing it after i will replace my center link Again ;(, and probably idler arm, but seeing it on different trucks sure looks promising, and much cheaper then Carltons system , and Slr's system

The point is that you, after seeing the correct line which did not have any scraping, directed him away from that line..

Geting back to the steering topic..

Any pics of this stuff installed?

Plz refer to my definition of the correct line above

Here is the one on FSRBiker's truck, but I don't know any details. Sometimes simple is better.



Richard

Does it interfere with an idler arm brace?

After reading 01SalsaXterra (aka Ken) I see that he had a brace on his.

Hmm, so it's something smooth that sits on top of the centerlink forcing it to hit the frame and slide under stress (or stay in constant contact with it) rather than something that can catch.
Looks to me like a thin metal plate with a layer of plastic bored for the u-bolts and counter-sunk for the nuts and washers. That seems a bit crude, but if it works...

Brent

A) If you read Ken's message, he said he has an Idler Arm brace on his setup.

B) Let's see if we can keep this thread on topic shall we?

I would be willing to test one out on my Frontier for you. Just thought I would let you know. I am looking for a cheap fix to this problem. I will be getting one of the solutions soon. I would much rather spend the extra $300 on something else!

Hey Carlton
check this thread out

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000147#000001

as well as this one

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000148

are you two done with your bullsh*t yet?

Edit: Nevermind, I see you created that new one somewhere else - thank you. I didn't feel like reading it all so I thought it was more ammo being flung back and forth.

Okay, where were we?

I know it work Andy, I just want to get higher on the list to get one if it works out.

Some UHMW plastic could be bonded to the frame rail somehow (just an idea, havent figured that part out). This stuff is very smooth and extremely durable. It would allow sliding without impacting frame paint.

How are the U-Bolts secured?

Has anyone given any thought to what might happen if those u-bolts loosten up and lock your steering by allowing that block to move? That would be a bad thing to happen on the trail (esp. on something like Black Bear)

Your solution looks interesting. It will definatly keep the center link from twisting up.

The thing to remember with the stock Nissan center link is, the bushing will eventually wear even without twisting. This will still lead to some play in the steering. Also the pin is made from a some what soft material. Every center link I've changed has had a bent pin.

I'm am going to do a Rockwell test to see what the hardness of the pin is when I have a chance to go to our other facility. I'm guessing it is quite a bit softer than a Grade 8 bolt.

As for the frame rusting issue I doubt it will have much of an affect unless you park the truck for a while. The constant motion of the block will keep rust from forming.

Good luck with your solution to the problem.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!

OMFG, what next ?

If you're going to try and stop rotation of the center link, at least try something besides a huge friction plate band-aid.

What ideas have you come with einstein? While it may some refinements it is a good idea to start with. Very simple design.

Why should I have to come up with a design ? I'm not a parts manufacturer.

I do have a background in mechanical design though, and that thing is a band-aid, a crutch, not a solution.

Hmm...simple & not too big on aesthetics.
One interesting consequence (intended?) of the design is that it prevents stress on the idler arm (both the arm itself & the idler arm pivot).
It basically appears to put most of the vertical force transferred via the tie rods onto the frame of the truck.
One thing, though: doesn't the centerlink translate up & down some small amount as the steering moves from one extreme to another?
EDIT: Doh! Nevermind; CL doesn't move up/down; rather fore and aft as XOC mentions below.

It won't stop tie-rod breakage, about the only thing that will is staying on the road and only going to the mall.

Tie-rods break or bend due to an impact of the wheel, forcing the tie-rod through a quick arc faster than the steering components can respond to it.

What if you were to put a piece of C channel upside down between the frame rails and then somehow attach some rollers to the top of the CL like this.


Use some sort of sealed bearing for the rollers. Could this work?

Nope. The idler and pitman move through an arc, so the centerlink moves fore and aft in relationship to the frame, not just side to side.

So now, with this thing in place, the centerlink is essentially up against the frame. Wouldn't tie-rods break more easily now ?

Flex in the steering system is there by design. Removing all of it is a bad thing.

O.K. How about making the C-channel move back and forth also, maybe with some sort of set up like they do with roler coasters i.e. a wheel on bottom and wheel on top to keep it from falling off?

It might have a few moving parts but it would eliminate the friction.

Wouldn't it just be easier to replace the steering (Calmini/SLR) rather than using the "Mr. Fussion"/ Flux Capacitor method?

Isn't the idea to have fewer parts to break and replace?

Sure it is, I was just thowing ideas around. Creative thinking is still allowed around here isn't it or have we all been reduced to name calling and sarcasm.

...Snicker...

Then you're back to square one, but now have two things that move and will end up wearing. You've also added a great deal of complexity and cost.

CALMINI's design is the correct solution (simple, cheap, mechanically sound), let the centerlink do one job, and one job only, keep the arms in phase.

Ok, I'll start with XOC- you call it a band-aid. Well take another look at the idlerarm brace what would you call that? By your definition I would call that a band-aid to but most of us use it. I'm not looking to reinvent the steering because it works fine when all the parts are new. I'm just trying to keep it all new and after five wheeling trips everything is still straight. I have now problem with the other solutions, I just can't throw down a grand at one time like a lot of peaple. I'm just giving everyone an option.
axle59- I also thought about your idea. One problem, the rotation can only be controlled at the tierod unless you mount something to the centerlink where ever the roller hits. Now your still talking $$$.
From my observation it's not just the tierod hitting the frame that breaks them. The joint on the tierod has a slot it moves in. It is only suppose to move back and forth. Once the centerlink twists up the ball joint is passed it's range of movement. And it snaps. That is why I think it was DesertRat that was also able to break the EOE adjusters.
If I missed an other real questions I'm sorry. There was to much bull about other things

Ian/Carlton I could give a rats ass what either of you think, it works plain and simple...truth hurts doesn't it.

Marty I will be in touch on some refinements I and a few others at ECXC discussed and came up with which I think you will like...nothing major just to simplify the installation and there will be a forth point of attachment for those who might worry about a u-bolt loosening and this will eliminate any possibility of it ever shifting(not that I am worried now).

The picture is actually of my truck, no I don't have a brace and I am not really worried about the idler arm with this Guidance System in place.

A double-shear mount that does not interfere with the factory design in any way.

Jamming a piece of plastic between the frame and steering components though, and calling it a steering solution, is the absolute pinnacle of low budget, garage based, crap design.

You could save $150 and just shove a 2x4 piece of wood in there and get the same effect.

What truth ? It's a dangerous contraption.

Have you tested it for 6 months ? 25,000+ miles ?
How does the delrin wear evenly considering most driving is done in a straight line ?
When the delrin has a groove worn in it from driving in a straight line, how will it handle ?
After complaining that the frame tolerances from Nissan are so bad, how can this fit into all Xterras without being too tight or too loose ?
How does the delrin hold up to dirt and rocks trapped between it and the frame scratching the surface ?
Why isn't there a wiper on either side to prevent contamination ?
What about ice freezing it solid in the winter ?
What about a chunk of ice building up around it causing your steering to lock ?
What about a rock falling into the countersunk holes, jamming against the frame ?

Ian's last post raises lots of good questions. I like informative stuff like that.

I might even listen to him if his first response wasn't to just laugh and ridicule.

Well sorry I'm 7,000 miles and one month short. The pads are easily replaced but mine have almost on wear so far.

How much is the new pad ? Delrin isn't cheap (about $100 sq/ft at 1" thickness), and the pad seems to be 75 percent of the device.

If it needs to be replaced every 10,000 miles or so, is it better than a new centerlink ?

What does 'almost no wear' mean ?
Is it worn or not ? Is it grooved ? Is there a valley in it ?

Anyway, I'm done with this topic.
One photograph answered every question I had. You all can decide what's best for you.

I'll stick with parts from experienced manufacturers.

You miss understood, I have had it on for 18,000 miles and 5 months.
As for the pads they aren't made from delrin but HDPE and will be around $25 for replacement.
No grooves, no valleys, just a little discolor from rubbing.

You drive 120 miles a day ?

Sometimes more. I work construction and don't stay home to many weekends. Four trip to the Rubicon at over 500 miles each trip. Sundays trip to Hollister Hills was 350 miles, etc.,etc.
Since I got into construction I have averaged over 40,000 a year for the past 8 years. Luckily I love to drive.

Hmmm...now THAT'S some SERIOUS mileage and testing.

Is that the kind of testing that you did on the stainless steel.. I mean chrome molly.. I mean.. What are those things made of?

Sorry...I know it's off the topic, but are there any pics? I'm not asking you to prove anything. I just want to see pictures of an xterra on the Rubicon!!!

Last time when I got to walk the Rubicon, I thought it would be impossible for an Xterra (even 3 + 3) to go through without getting tons of damages, etc., and maybe there would be a few more years before someone actually takes an Xterra there. But, you've been there already!?!

dood...getting tired of sifting through yer BS while trying to learn stuff....
Just so happens that every thread I'm interested in you pop-in & start shit-slinging & it's getting old fast

Go here.... http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=000634

XSal: You're right on the trail,but the right after the staging area, the first granite area has plenty of ledges boulders and other things to play on without worrying about having to helicopter yourself out. Sorry for the confusion. I mainly go there to fish, mountain bike, and camp. But how can you resist playing? Gearings the only reason I haven't trying.
I've tried to post pics, but Webtv has not allowed my to and I somehow screw-up computers everytime I touch one.
I'll keep trying though.

If you need somewhere to host your pictures, FTP to: ftp.superjens.com - username xterra - password xterra

Webtv has no scanner, no input, etc. About all it's good for is surfing the web and email.

Are you shooting digital or film? I am not really familure with that service.. Does it have a CD rom?

Here are my pictures of the Steering setup. Sorry that it's of a VERY dirty Xterra, but my truck was severly abused this weekend at ECXC. Please also note that I went into ECXC with a worn Center link, and a worn(much worste that I thought) Moog Idler arm. I wound up replacing the Moog with my old stock idler arm. Tomorrow I'm ording a new center link and an idler arm bushing from 4x4parts.com. With those in place, and the new steering system on, I can't wait to tackle some more of what paragon has to offer

Rich, Drop me an email on how much the new bushing will cost. I was thinking of replacing the stock bushing with a bronze one, when its time to get my EOE tie rod adjusters, T-bars, and shocks done.
I've put 400 miles on my X since the steering system was installed with NO Problems, and No noticeable difference.
I repeat, I am completely stock up front except for my Idler arm brace and a minor T-bar adjustment.
L8r

Here's the link Ken. Idler Arm Bushing

As long as your idler arm is NOT bent, you should be able to replace the bushings and have it good as new again. For $10, you can't go wrong.

What I find most interesting is that this setup looks like it could co-exist with stock or the other aftermarket setups as well.

How bombproof or to quote Ian (bandaided) is your steering?

Pikachu is also running this setup on his X. For those of you that don't know Pika, he's a crazy SOB, running 36 inch swampers. I've seen him take his X places some Jeep owners would be afraid to go If it's been holding up to his abuse, it will definatly hold up on mine.

Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning? :rolleyes:

Did that fog light get broken from hitting a rock, or did something get thrown up there? Never was a fan of that location.

Agreed. I think we need to get a Carlton filter so some of these threads will shrink by about 50%. Can you take a hint?

Nobody. I'm just embarassed looking at some of the stuff that's coming out for the Xterra.

This is not a $500, 15 year old pickup truck that someone is trying to cobble together for a trail rig, it is a $25,000, quite new SUV that everyone here relies on as a daily driver.

Jambing a piece of plastic between the steering mechanism, and the frame is not the sort of products we should be seeing.

It is truly shocking how jury rigged some of this stuff is, and even more shocking that people accept something this poorly designed as a solution.

Amen Brother!

Look at the picture AGAIN, before you say anything

if U-bolt will loosen up it will just fall to the ground, and the plate will be held by 2 other U-bolts

I think I have a solution....Powdercoat it Blue

If the U-bolts loosen the whole plastic thing will slip on the centerlink and could get hung up somewhere else. Could slip inward and then jam and get stuck on the other side of the frame rail or such even, which almost certainly would cause you to lose steering control.

I though AC powdercoated their stuff black not blue?

::JAB JAB JAB::

Chuck: neh, not realy , if you wold see the design in person you would know what i mean

if U bolt will loosen up the U bolt will fall to the ground

if all U bolts will loosen up, then it will just slide to the inside of the frame and will hang there

Rich, i think i have a Blue highligher, i will paint my set CGB collor ( Calmini Gay Blue ), maybe then Carlton will shut his trap

Now that's funny...
Nope AC spray paints thier stuff black... Ha!

Getting slightly offtopic...

Oleg, why do you constantly jab at Carlton for liking Calmini? He has spent far more on Xterra parts than just about anyone else here, and has bought items from every major manufacturer I can think of. I would think he has a pretty good knowledgebase of all the manufacturers, their quality, their functionality. If he favors Calmini, it's probably because they do it right.

Now, getting back on track, are you saying that CM will like this design if it was Calmini blue, therefore deducing that it was made by them? Since they already have a well designed cure for the steering system woes, what's the point? Cheaper isn't always better. This is a creative solution, and it may hold merit, but I tend to worry about anything that rubs against the frame to save a $120 steering component. Plus, any rotation of that unit will cause your steering to be impeded, possibly causing a wreck. Ian brings up excellent points as well, especially the rocks in the drillholes issue.

Looks pretty unsafe to me.

Hmmm... Well guys and gals since this is a NEW device it is going to go through some updating!

Rock in the drill hole? This problem is easily solved: After tightning the u-bolts, fill them full of silicone. Rocks can't get in period. This would also help prevent any loosening of the bolts, would prevent corrosion from making them weak and would make it easier to get them off. If you need to get them off it would be easy to dig out the silicone.

Ice buildup? Give me a break! You really think ice can stand up to the power of the power steering pump? You can move the entire truck sidways with that pump! If that was truely an issue no one could drive their vehicles in the winter! The entire steering mechanism is exposed on most vehicles and they don't seem to have any problems.

One solution I thought of to the danger of the unit spinning on the center link: After getting the unit mounted and tested: Weld the u-bolts to the center link. Or take a center link and weld the platform for the plastic piece directly to it and sell the whole assembly.

I was actually worried about the frame being worn down by grit between the plastic and the metal. I would look into maybe having a piece of plastic attached to the frame also. However you say you went 5 months and no noticable wear on the plastic? Then the metal frame must be OK...

My .02...

lol. you only need to hit 88 mph for it to work.

I'm a left turn making FOOL! heheh

It can't spin on the centerlink. The "dogbone" shape of the CL prevents it since the metal/plastic bar extends over the ends. Correct?
For that matter, how could it spin in the first place, since there's nowhere for it to go but up into the frame rail...

Brent

Good point Brent! I guess the danger exists that a rock could slam into it while you had the wheel cranked all the way to one side? I was there at ECXC but did not see it in action on the trails. (Was too busy keeping my truck on all four wheels and able to drive home!)

Well, I did see it in action at ECXC. On Pika's Truck. For anyone who has ever spotted Pika through an obstacle, you understand what I'm about to say...

Get out of his way. He will put steering systems or bandaids as they have been called here to the test. I spotted him through one rock garden and did not notice any steering play at all. Basically, it worked. How long it will last, I will leave that up to those testing it, but it worked and is a cheap solution/bandaid if it continues to work.

Cliff

Sorry I don't have much time tonight, but am in the middle of moving.
The only thing I saw was that someone seemed to think that the u-bolts held the rotation. The rotation is stopped at a point on the end of the dogbone. The passenger-side also has a mounting point for the steering stablizer.

Agreed.

I'm sure it works ok but it looks like something you'd weld together on a trail after a break down just to get you home so you can really fix the problem.

I'd rather just save up for a few more months and get a permanent fix like the Calmini than stuff some stop-gap soulution under my X.

I guess its a moot point since I still have my original center-link.

I just wish Calmini would put out their steering kit. My centerlink is not a spring chicken, and I'd hate to get an interim one and then replace it with a functional steering system.

Matt

Ding Ding Ding..we have a winner!!!!!! When Calmini introduced their steering system, I thought it was great...from what I've seen of Calmini, they produce quality products. It's the availability date of late August that I can't deal with right now. I'll be suprised if they in fact are available by then...I'm guessing it won't be till September or October. But anyway, I needed a solution NOW!! SLR is just way out of my price range. Will I buy the Calmini system when it gets released?? Most likely. But for now, I'll be running this centerlink guidance system, and it looks like I won't have any problems. And when it does come time to install the Calmini system...the one I'm using now will always be in the back of the X, just waiting to be installed incase the Calmini fails.

I think that generalization should sum things up and finally end this all about now