UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra

Posted by: SEXterra

UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 09/05/02 08:03 PM

Check it out...
I've been working with Joe Darlington at Darlington Offroad to develop these over the past few months. He's been really responsive and his products are a great addition to the Xterra aftermarket parts community. This our first attempt at these and I am completely satisfied with the end result. It took three sets to get the measurements right, but we finally got it!

These are a great investment for many reasons.
First, how many of you have bent a shock mount or U-bolt spring? I haven't yet, but I've clanged the spring hanger a few times and didn't like the way it felt. Cheap to fix, but a PITA I assume. I'm the kinda guy that likes to fix things once and only once.

Second, how much ground clearance did you lose when you upgraded to National spring packs (about an 1.5 inches). On that same note, did you replace your Bilstein shocks (with longer ones) when you upgraded spring packs... you need to, because the ones you WERE using with the OEM rear spring pack are too short after installing the thicker National packs.

The stock rear spring mounts leave your shock mount terribly exposed and cause you to lose about an inch of ground clearance. U (under) B (belly) Skidderz gets back that clearance you lost with the National packs, provides a smooth surface for you to slide over rocks on, and moves your u-bolt ends and shock mounts up alongside the spring pack about 3 inches... protected from the dangers below. The best benefit I found was the shock mount relocation was just high enough to allow me to continue to use my current set of Bilsteins. If you currently have Bilsteins or Ranchos on the back, I would get these as opposed to a longer set of shocks when I upgraded to National packs.

They are completely overbuilt and weight about 10 lbs each. The bottom plate is 1/4in steel and the sides are 3/16 angleiron.

Upgrades you can look for in the production model:
1) U-bolts will be about 1/2 inch shorter to keep them from hanging below the "flush-line"
2) All hardware and U-bolts will be powdercoated.
3) Mine are about an 1/8 too wide. Future models will be more precise in design now that we have the dimensions down.
4) The shock mount will be a SS bolt with fine threads...
5) Joe will be offering two variants. Those with OEM springs vs. those with National springs. The difference between the two will be the shock mount location. Those with National packs will want the ones I have (called top mount). Those with OEM packs will want the side mount version. In this version the shock mount is mounted on the lower lip of the skidder as opposed to the upper side as shown. This prevents the shock mount from being shortended "too much".

Interested in a set? Anticipated price is about $140, a bit pricey, but worth the security in my book. Joe will be adding these to the "Xtrera" page on his web-site so you can order them. If you want to email sooner please do. Understand, Joe's company is small, like EOE, It may take a few weeks for Joe to get a full set of these run. Please be patient and Joe will take care of you.

www.darlington-offroad.com
joe@darlington-offroad.com







Feel free to post any questions, concerns, bitches, gripes, complaints... etc.

Thanks to superjens for hosting pics!
FU villagephoto.
Posted by: The X Factor

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 09/05/02 08:54 PM

$140 is a bit pricey! I do like how they raise they help you gain a little bit more clearance. But the price is killer. AC has some Leaf Pack skid plates that only run $75.

They would make a great alternative to those of you not wanting to pay the $140 price tag.

It's nice to see darlington making products for the X now
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 09/05/02 09:38 PM

AC's skids are are the stock shock perch with a piece of flat stock steel weleded over it. They actually reduce your clearnace and do nothing to protect the shock perch.

Like I said earlier, the key benefit is this... When you upgrade sping packs, you can buy another $150 worth of longer shocks, or you can but these, maintain your current set of shocks, and reap the added clearance benefits as well.

I have more pics too. There is a significant amount of time and tedious welding in making these, powdercoating, heavy duty replacement 9/16in. UBolts (those alone are almost $20 + shipping), etc which quantifies the higher cost. Let me know if you're interested.
Posted by: superjens

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 09/05/02 10:12 PM

Quote:
Goddam villagephotos... what a stupid pricing model. Here's 50 MB of free space, but you get 8mb downloaded per day.
So toss 'em up on my site, all the space and bandwidth you need. Info in the Pictures section.
Posted by: superjens

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 09/05/02 10:50 PM

It says right on the top "If you need somewhere to host your pictures, FTP to: ftp.superjens.com - username xterra - password xterra -Read this for more info"

The thread it links to is: here!

smile
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 12:13 AM

Pics Fixed...
Thanks Jens
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 01:38 AM

You might want to fix those, they are BMP files with JPG extensions. Not all browsers will be able to figure that out.

Right click one and it won't give you a file size, and if you save it, it saves as bitmap.
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 01:50 AM

If you are using the longer Bilstein shocks with the National Spring pack, they should now be too long and will bottom out under full compression.

I ran the longer rear shocks last year for a few days before installing my 10 leaf pack and they bottomed out hard. Moving the shock mount up that high could cause problems without going back to shorter shocks.
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 03:49 AM

Just to clarify what XOC said...

Yes, if you bought longer Bilsteins to go with the national packs, combining these two is not the way to go. The ideal install here is either the national spring pack with my top mount designs, or the OEM spring pack with the side mount design... both with the standard length Bilsteins
Posted by: lemsip

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 09:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SEXterra:
5) Joe will be offering two variants. Those with OEM springs vs. those with National springs. The difference between the two will be the shock mount location.
How would these work with OE length bilsteins and AAL in the rear ?
Posted by: BoarderPhreak

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 10:37 AM

Is it just me, or are there some strange angles going on with that U-bolt?

Check it:

Posted by: Olegkha

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 11:07 AM

i think the pic is a bit crocked

look at the tire thread, its a bitsideways as well
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 10/05/02 12:41 PM

Quote:
How would these work with OE length bilsteins and AAL in the rear ?
You'll probably want the Top mount style as shown. I really think they the top mounts will work for either application, but I have not tested the top mounts on the OEM spring pack.

If the do create a problem, an easy and cheap fix would be some bumpstop extension.
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 11/05/02 07:44 AM

i'm defintely interested in a pair of those. My setup is Stock spring pack w/ rancho AALs and stock length bilsteins, with no swaybar,(soon to be calmini Quick-discos with stock swaybar). Which setup would I need without bottoming out the shocks?
L8r
Ken
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 11/05/02 05:27 PM

Top mounts... As pictured above.
Posted by: DaveDatsun

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 12/05/02 06:18 AM

You may want to add another set of nuts to reduce possible damage to those exposed threads.

dave and xtoy - protect the protector
Posted by: JuicedX

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 12/05/02 08:10 AM

ok i see where every thing is mounted & if i dont have a new leaf pack it looks liek it will not work with the stock pack & AAL will it?????

If that was mentioned earlyier then a pic is worth a 1000 words
Posted by: JuicedX

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 12/05/02 02:09 PM

lol ok i jsut read it again & there is a different one for stock spring packs where exacly does the shock mount then ??? pic pls
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 12/05/02 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveDatsun:
You may want to add another set of nuts to reduce possible damage to those exposed threads.
dave and xtoy - protect the protector
Dave,
Good plan, understand the u-bolts will be 1/2 in. shorter on the production models, thus they won't hang down below the plane, definately a good idea though.

Juiced,
To be more clear...
These WILL work with OEM spring pack with or without AAL's. I've been doing some measuring and I don't think we'll need to make two different versions. It looks like the application will work with either te national or OEM setup. You'll need to invert your spring pack pin... That's about it.
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 14/05/02 04:56 AM

Ladies and Gents...
I've asked Joe to make the UB Skidderz available for purchase over the web. You can now purchase these using your major credit card.
Note, reduced price: $134.95

Click www.Darlington-Offroad.com UB Skidders for Xterra to access the online web order form.

Two important notes:
- Joe leaves for MOAB this week and is in throes of preparation until Friday. He'll be back next Monday. Joe will be filling all orders when he gets back, thus an order placed today will be on your doorstep in approx. three weeks. (The delay is the powder-coating process). It takes about a week to put these together, powdercoat, box and ship. I reccomend you place your order by the end of next week so it will be "in the inbox" when he returns.

- Upon further review, I reccommend the top mount style skidderz for EVERYONE (National or OEM springs with or without AAL's). My measurements indicate these would work for either application and they obviously afford the most protection. Still, if you're interested in the side mount style, they are available. Please be sure to specify which style you want when you order off the web-site.

Here's a pic of the finished product. Note the difference between shock mounting location... (Top vs Side).

Posted by: JuicedX

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 14/05/02 08:12 AM

ooooooooooooo daddy like but get more travel there is never is enough.....

dont know homw many tiem guy have said " Markus if you keep going youir gonna rip your sping hangers off ot your spring mount thingys" LOL
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 14/05/02 05:51 PM

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!
Posted by: rrdstarr

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 14/05/02 06:41 PM

Online ordered mine this morning....three weeks and counting......
Posted by: New Guy

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 14/05/02 11:06 PM

How bout making a spring over kit and get the lift, remove them springs from that stupid place (I got stuck in snow last Sat. from those springs!) and rid the axle of all compromised equipment. ! Start the process of making the X a real off road vehicle.

my .02
Posted by: OffroadX

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 15/05/02 08:51 AM

A spring-over would add about 6" to the height of the rear end. There is currently no way to make up for it at the front end short of a solid axle swap.

Brent
Posted by: xterrabull

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 15/05/02 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OffroadX:
A spring-over would add about 6" to the height of the rear end. There is currently no way to make up for it at the front end short of a solid axle swap.

Brent
How does the frontier do it? Does it use a flatter springpack? Could the X use that springpack if it does? Don't really know what I'm talking about here -- just thinking out loud.
Posted by: OffroadX

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 15/05/02 01:53 PM

Probably a flatter spring pack, and the front spring hanger is tucked up higher and further to the rear on the curve of the frame rail instead of right at the bottom/beginning of the curve.

Brent
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 15/05/02 03:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by New Guy:
How bout making a spring over kit and get the lift, remove them springs from that stupid place (I got stuck in snow last Sat. from those springs!) and rid the axle of all compromised equipment. ! Start the process of making the X a real off road vehicle.

my .02
Well get on it... and let us know how it turns out.

Honestly, I prefer the spring under with these spring skids. A spring over leaves your axle fully exposed to bind up on rocks. With these and a good diff skid, you'll slide over them rather than potentially get hung up on the axle.
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 16/05/02 07:04 PM

Quick lesson learned...

When you install the bolt that mounts the shock to the skidder... use loctite. Found out the hard way today.
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 16/05/02 09:23 PM

No reason to use Loctite if it's torqued correctly.
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 16/05/02 09:30 PM

I just looked at the picture again, and correct me if I'm wrong.

It looks like a bolt goes through the eye of the shock and threads into the skidder. If so, that's a horrible design. That bolt needs 50+ lb. ft. of torque in that hole, but only needs a few pound feet to compress the shock bushings.

It has to be a stud design to work.

Darlington can't possibly expect people to keep their shocks on their truck with Loctite.

Loctite is not a glue, and is not designed to simply glue a bolt in place, it has to be used with correct torque monitoring.

Bad, bad design.
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 19/05/02 04:44 PM

Yep, that was something that came out in testing. The first set he sent me had a stud design (with a good nylon nut). This "second" set has a bolt design with course threads that threads into a nut that's welded into the UB Skidder.. and it worked it's way loose over the course of a few weeks.

Put it back in with some locktite and off I went.

The intent of switching was to reduce the amount of exposure. Those end threads are exposed a bit by a "post" type design, but switching the design around introduces more potential for harm than good.

I just came back from two days on the beach at OBX III and it has yet to work loose.

"Bad bad design..." I wouldn't go that far, because it's already been fixed. The production model will switch the design back the way it was previously.
Posted by: ChuckH

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 12:50 AM

BP, you are right. There's no way the U-bolts could come down straight without either removing the plates that go over the top of the axle or replacing them with some that are wider. The shape of the Skidderz plates moves the U-bolts out farther, but the top palte won't allow that. That's why they come down at an angle. I would think they would develop some proper top lates to fix this problem. I don't know what the effect of slanted U-Bolts may be.
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 02:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckH:
I don't know what the effect of slanted U-Bolts may be.
U-bolt failure.

They better come up with a solution before selling them.
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 02:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SEXterra:
This "second" set has a bolt design with course threads that threads into a nut that's welded into the UB Skidder.. and it worked it's way loose over the course of a few weeks.
And Joe somehow thought this would work ?
Is it a real weld nut, or just some nut from Lowe's hardware that he welded on ?

I thought he was an engineer or something....
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 02:20 AM

One more thing, anyone thinking of buying these should check out Darlington's Statement of Non-Liability.

They are for off road use only, and if they break, it will be the result of your own decision to use them. He disclaims all responsibility for failure.

Sounds like he really stands behind his products... [Freak]
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 05:18 AM

Quote:
And Joe somehow thought this would work ?
Is it a real weld nut, or just some nut from Lowe's hardware that he welded on ?

I thought he was an engineer or something....
I'll check ont he weld nut vs a Lowes nut. He has a fabrication shop do all the welding, he just drills, specs, and finishes the end result. I assume they are using real weld nuts.
No, Joe is not an engineer. He is a telecomm specialist in the Air Force for his day job. I didn't know you had to be... Are Steve and Spencer engineers? Oh, I'm a mechanical engineer, but I can't build parts for shit, but i CAN recognize a good design.

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckH:
BP, you are right. There's no way the U-bolts could come down straight without either removing the plates that go over the top of the axle or replacing them with some that are wider. The shape of the Skidderz plates moves the U-bolts out farther, but the top plate won't allow that. That's why they come down at an angle. I would think they would develop some proper top lates to fix this problem. I don't know what the effect of slanted U-Bolts may be.
The U-bolts aren't slanted. Not sure what those flimsy plates do that sit on top of the axle, but you remove em when you put these on. The Skidder does move the U-bolts out wider, but there is no need to replace those plates. If you'll closely inspect your rear end you'll notice there is a weld that moves along the horizontal plane. This weld has been ground down where the OEM u-bolts cross this plane. Since the new U-bolts are now sit at a wider stance, they don't have this. Getting the new U-bolts where they need to be takes a tap or two with a hammer to get them to even out align correctly), but it's not a show stopper by any means.

BTW the new U-bolts are 9/16in thick in diameter. That's about the size of the base of your index finger. I'd like to see you fail those.

Quote:
Originally posted by xoc:
One more thing, anyone thinking of buying these should check out Darlington's [b]Statement of Non-Liability.

They are for off road use only, and if they break, it will be the result of your own decision to use them. He disclaims all responsibility for failure.

Sounds like he really stands behind his products... [Freak] [/b]
And Joe will stand behind his products. Every aftermaket vendor has a disclaimer similar to this one. That's to protect you from being sued when you, the idiot driver, drive your truck off a cliff and then want to come back and sue the vendor for your poor decision. The americal legal system has forced this into existence everywhere. Gimme a break.

Here's Calmini\'s

Ian, I appluad your skepticism, but why are you trying to kill these? Pointing out design flaws is great because that equals better safer products, but slamming a company (or individual for that matter) you've never dealt with I find silly.

Every design issue you've had beef with (only one) has already been corrected. What more do you want... A free set to "review" [Freak] ?
Take that up with Joe.

If you don't like them, or don't won't to deal with Joe, don't buy them.

Bottom Line guys, if you are interested in these, don't just take my word for it, call Joe and express your concerns. He really is a super cool guy to deal with.

joe@darlington-offroad.com
Darlington Off-Road Products
592 N.6th E. St.
Mountain Home, Idaho, 83647, US
phone: 208-587-3922 fax: 786-551-2803
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 06:20 AM

I'm not trying to kill them, I am just pointing out possible problems along with other people.

Joe doesn't state a warranty for his parts, other companies do, that's a problem.

Joe made a bad design error, he fixed it, but that makes me question the product.

Do I want some free ones ? No thanks.
Posted by: XOC

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 06:23 AM

And you really should put some real JPEG images up so people can see what you're trying to sell for Joe. The BMP file renamed as JPG is not visible to many browsers.
Posted by: Carlton McMillan

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 06:28 AM

"Feel free to post any questions, concerns, bitches, gripes, complaints... etc."

You did ask for it though...
Posted by: ChuckH

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 07:33 AM

If you remove the top plate and move the U-Bolts apart at the top too, then you have even less lateral support for the spring pack, which means that tiny bolt down the middle of the pack is taking all the lateral load. And that bolt is hanging out the bottom where it can get sheared off. The plates should have lateral spring support all the way up to the axle and that center bolt should have protection. All they'd have to do is run the steel up different lengths for different applications or have fittings to go over the U-Bolts so they are not out away from the leaf packs.

I very much like the idea, but I see some possible failure points that would really concern me. At the very least, I would carry my old stock plates, U-Bolts, and a couple new leaf pack center bolts with me when offroading.
Posted by: OffroadX

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 08:19 AM

FWIW, the so-called "vertical" that BP drew isn't perpendicular to the axle tube. That doesn't mean the u-bolts aren't a little skewed, but not as far as the lines he drew would indicate.

Brent
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 02:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckH:
If you remove the top plate and move the U-Bolts apart at the top too, then you have even less lateral support for the spring pack, which means that tiny bolt down the middle of the pack is taking all the lateral load. And that bolt is hanging out the bottom where it can get sheared off. The plates should have lateral spring support all the way up to the axle and that center bolt should have protection. All they'd have to do is run the steel up different lengths for different applications or have fittings to go over the U-Bolts so they are not out away from the leaf packs.

I very much like the idea, but I see some possible failure points that would really concern me. At the very least, I would carry my old stock plates, U-Bolts, and a couple new leaf pack center bolts with me when offroading.
Not sure what that thin-gauge little piece of steel that sit atop the axle is going to do for lateral load... or even how to apply a lateral load exclusively to the spring pack. I really don't see a need for it, especially when you use oversized u-bolts. The design of the UB Skidderz and the "walls" that cup the springs prevent shearing of that pinn under lateral load. The spring pack "pin bolt" can be inverted to prevent shearing too. I've meaning to do that next time I get a chance to pull these off again.

I need to resize the original jpeg's... No photoshop here yet. I did screen captures in MS paint to reduce them and saved them as .jpg. Not how MS paint works... it's still a .bmp apparently. I have to dedicate some time to do this.

And I'm not selling these for Joe... It's a product I wanted and helped bring to the community and am glad to own. I just figured there would be others who might want something like this too.

Compared to the stock design, I can't see where a "failure" is gonna occur. You'll break a whole lotta other stoff before these give way.
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Carlton McMillan:
"Feel free to post any questions, concerns, bitches, gripes, complaints... etc."

You did ask for it though...
I guess you're right. :rolleyes:
I want make that an option next time.

You'll take your post and like it.
Posted by: ChuckH

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 05:52 PM

My concern about lateral load had nothing to do with the plate on top of the axle. I believe the main purpose of that plate is to help keep the U-Bolts from slipping apart, but I'm not sure.

What I was seeing is there is space between the leaves and the bolts on the larger spring packs and I believe part of the job of the U-Bolts is to hold the elaves in place. The center bolt just isn't stron enough to hold up if there is side load on the springs. And if you think there isn't any side load, you should see what I've done to the brackets that wrap around my spring packs.

Anyway, I think that the gap between the spring pack and the U-bolts should be filled either by steel plates or by pieces that fit over the U bolts above the Skidderz plate.

As far as putting the center bolt in upside down I don't see how the nut would fit into the hole in the axle. The nut is larger than the round head of the bolt and that barely fits, unless you can find a smaller nut that fits over the bolt AND has enough strength to stay on.

Ask XOC how much of a strength freak I am. I've pissed him off a few times over similar issues. Too many years around metal fabrication and construction will do that to an individual.

When some folks in PNWX get their Skidderz it is almost a guarranty that I will be participating in the installation (they give me all the rear suspension shit to do!), so I'll get a closer look and will be ebtter able to evaluate. Until then I shut my mouth and rest my case! [Finger]
Posted by: SEXterra

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 07:48 PM

Good plan...
Let's let those who have ordered them comment after they've installed and tested them.
Posted by: rrdstarr

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 10:24 PM

I know Schludwiller and I ordered them. And ChuckH will undoubtedly help me with mine! I am sure they will work and Chuck will pull his head out of his butt!!!
Posted by: ChuckH

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rrdstarr:
I know Schludwiller and I ordered them. And ChuckH will undoubtedly help me with mine! I am sure they will work and Chuck will pull his head out of his butt!!!
Never, ever will that happen. Sorry to disappoint! [Wave] [Finger] laugh
Posted by: johnnyx

Re: UB Skidderz now available for the Xterra - 20/05/02 11:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckH:
Quote:
Originally posted by rrdstarr:
[b]I know Schludwiller and I ordered them. And ChuckH will undoubtedly help me with mine! I am sure they will work and Chuck will pull his head out of his butt!!!
Never, ever will that happen. Sorry to disappoint! [Wave] [Finger] laugh [/b]
Guess you'll need a 'rear breather tube' then! Thanks!, I'll be here all week folks! [Wave]

I'm also interested to see how these work out. Might have to get myself a set. smile