Originally posted by silvericex:
OK not to be nit-picky here and get off the original topic but here goes...
As I stated I have a Trek bike and a Kestrel bike (complete bike...not just fork)...both are painted and both are smooth and non-weave, by looking at them you would think that frame material is exactly the same. When you ride the bikes, lift the bikes, flick your finger against the bikes you know right away they are slightly different materials. Anyway, painting the weaved carbon fibre just hides the weave, I know this as my Kestrel mountain bike which I used to ride was on my roof rack when I was involved in an accident and was smashed which revealed several layers of weaved carbon fibre. Weaving of the carbon fiber is what gives it it's multi-directional strength and shock absorption qualities. Carbon FIBRE is just that, a fibrous unidirectional material, there are unidirectional applications for carbon fibre but only when strength is required in one direction which would be a bad idea for bikes for the obvious reasons!
Now this is getting sort of nit picky but interesting anyway. I too have owned many carbon frames. I've had three OCLVs, three or four standard tube carbons (Trek and Specialized) a couple Kestrel forks and a couple Trek Carbon forks. And I've broken my share of carbon frames and parts. So I'm guessing we're both pretty knowledgeable and probably talking of somewhat the same thing. I think the concepts are getting somewhat mixed up. The weave you're talking about on the broken frame is not what I'm talking about. What you're describing is the multiple layers of carbon sheets who's fibers run in different directions to give the frame it's strengh and ride characteristics. That's not the weave I'm talking about. And I completely agree that the build processes are much different. OCLV is a superior process. No doubt. Plus there are design differences. The Kestrel is a monocoque design (more or less), whereas the Trek uses carbon lugs with seperate tubes. None of this matters--I'm talking about the top layer weave that is added after the frame is already built. When a Kestrel frame is done being built, one of two things happens, it either gets painted, or it gets the woven layer (looks just like the dash kits). This layer can be added to OCLV, monocoque, and standard tube designs. If you stripped the paint off either of your bikes, it would look nothing like those dash kits, but if you buy a Kestrel with what they call a natural finish, it looks just like those dash kits. If you look at the bike Lance rode in the tour--the one without the paint--it looks nothing like those dash kits because it doesn't have the added woven layer. If you stripped the paint off either of your bikes it would look the same as Lance's. It's not very pretty and doesn't sell very well so companies put the woven layer on because it looks so high-tech and when people see that weave, they instantly think "carbon fiber". For a while Trek sold (I don't know if they do anymore) OCLVs as "true" natural bare carbon frames. Meaning, no top woven layer. Just a clear coat. I worked at a bike shop at the time and we had a very hard time selling them. People wanted the high-tech look they were used to seeing. They didn't care that Trek stopped using it because it added unneccesary weight. So instead of going back to the ways of old (the woven layer), and putting their frames over the 2.4 pound mark, they just paint them all.
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Eric Konarske &
Lara, my X '01 Solar Yellow XE 3 Pk. 4x4