Calmini SAS

o.k. Here is the deal.

Calmini is working on a SAS for the Xterra and Frontier with plans to make it for the HB.

The basic questions:

The lift will allow for 4 to 6 inchs of lift.

They are still working on what to do with the rear (be it a new leaf pack etc)

They are also replacing the front drive shaft.

No. There is not a release date set as they are still testing it.

No. They have not set a price.

Yes. It is mostly bolt on.

Steve tells me that they are working on getting this out as soon as possible.

Now for the pics..











Yes there is articulation in there.[cheers]






I spoke to Steve and he said he would come on the site in a few days to fill us in on all the other info that we are needing..

edit.. yes there are skid plates for it too.

Great!

Thank you Carlton...

One word: Schweeeet.

Time to start filling the piggy bank.

Jesus...I think I'm going to cry. That's fuckin' awesome.

It should RTI even better once the rear suspension is matched to the front. Doug's truck looks like it still has his old rear suspension.

This is exactly what I've been waiting for! I pay off the X in a year and this is what I wanted to do once that happens. The fact that Calmini is stepping up to the challenge is more than a bonus.

Thanks for the heads up, Carlton!

Just out of curiosity, the sub-$10k reference - I know it's not set, but are we talking around $2k or $9.5k? Just want something to plan for.

...and is that still a Waggy 44?

That was a jab at someone on another board.. More info will be coming shortly.

This is like 4x4 porn! Where is the boner smiley?

Start saving those Ben Franklins!

I can´t stop watching the pics

I hope not read posts with this subject: "FS: Xterra, WTB: a Solid Axle"

to Calmini

Best and most accurate statement yet.

Abso-fucking-lutely fabulous. Keep us updated on specifics....

Hehee...whackity, whackity!

RedX, for once will you let me get something before you

OMG that is so fucking awesome. Anyone got a towel

Not very likely...... :p

Time to switch hands, you don't want to get "tennis" elbow.

That really is unbelievably cool--as someone who has just started down the road of modifing my X more and more its great to see such support for it--and I HAD thought that the most expensive thing I could get for the X would be ther rear tire carrier....Wow I have alot of work to do!!

Can't wait

SWEET!

Very nice. But a spring over axle for the rear using either the 1/2 ton Chevy rear leafs (63") and perhaps some orbit eye bushings from AOR ( linky ) or just get some custom AOR's for the rear and we should see a Ramp Index close to 1000.

Like to see a price for the kit (minus the axle). Can't hardly wait. Looks like I'll have some time build the cage first.

Bad A$$

This is exactly why I didn't hack and whack an axle under my truck. I knew if I waited long enough, Calmini would come out with a kit! Looks top notch!!!

I believe I will sign up for one, but have a few questions.
1. I thought that the diff shaft and xfer case shaft should be parallel to each other to reduce vibration, or something like that. The first photo shows this not to be the case. I could be wrong though, please educate me if I am.
2. I didn't see a sway bar, is one being planned?

Richard

That's true for a driveshaft using u-joints, but u-joints have a limited operating range that this exceeds. To get around that you start using CV joints in the driveshaft. It looks like it's set up for a double-cardan CV joint at the transfer case. With that type of driveshaft the pinion should be pointed at the transfer case output shaft like they have here. These aren't the wimpy little CV joints we have in the halfshafts either. Most rockcrawling buggies use double cardan driveshafts without problems.

Understand.
Another question, would a Slip Yoke Eliminator be required? Front and rear?

Thanks again.

There isn't a slip yoke on the front. We already have a 2 piece driveshaft. It's possible for the rear and Calmini already has a SYE available for our transfer case. It depends on how high the rear ends up getting lifted.

I'd like to see them link the truck to match the front. I've been waiting to see if the truck can be linked without cutting through the rear floor.

I guess these are the obsticles that I'd like to know how they overcame:

How did they get the braked to work with the factory set up, ABS ect. ?

Wheels? Do the fronts and backs match? Did they just use hubs to match the bolt pattern in the 44 ??

Hummm.....(thinking out loud) with an SAS I'd be just one transfer case and shifter away from................

Nice!!

No ABS on a solid axle swap. Nowhere to mount the sensors on a Dana 44.

No sway bars on a SAS. Unless you wanted to go with an Anti-Rock bar then sure. But really, if you set up the coilovers correctly, with the correct springs and valving, then in reality, I wouldn't use anything.

Besides, with a SAS, you're making the commitment from mall crawler to rock crawler. Some give and take is necessary.

Besides, you can offset some of the cost of the swap by selling your ABS Module and sensors.

Must not be a Farker, it's Fap! Fap! Fap!

Veddy schweet kit...

Brent

to calmini...

i dont think i am personally going to do this, i use my X as a daily driver and then some fun on the weekends...

but to those who want this kind of performance, looks like calmini came through for ya...

Great Job! looks awesome, cant wait to see it as a complete package.

pic of the week???

I think read somewhere (N4W I believe) that when Steve was considering Xterra SAS, he was thinking spring under axle to keep it somewhat streetable so as to be more appealing to larger market. My feeling is that the same logic would be carried over as much as possible to the coil sprung SAS kit and that he would strive for good on-road performance (hence as little as 4" lift). I guess I'm thinking of the landrovers & landcruisers (late models) that had coil-sprung solid front axles & a pretty good ride as well...granted not with 35's & 6" of lift; but the point is there may be enough flexibility to dial in, at least to some extent, your own preferred compromise of onroad vs. offroad performance.

Very nice. Maybe Calmini can even do a coil-spring axle in the back too? Talk about some flex!

Whenever you fellas go for the SAS, let me know and I'll take your Calmini lift and steering off your hands

Holy Mary mother of...

That will be sweet.

Nice TK, real nice.

How sweet it is to be an Xterra owner again. Best part is I have my D44 sitting at home just waiting to go in.

Did I mention that you suck?

This is a really stupid question I bet...but hey!! thats typical of me!! Where do you get the front axle from?? Does it matter?? preferences?? Have to be from a certain vehicle to fit size wise??

oh hell yes. now i know what to save for, screw an IRA!!!!

Tim

Steve,

Yup, the rear is still from the standard Calmini AAL. This will change soon.

-Doug

Why ruin a perfectly good IFS Xterra?  

For the money spent on the original vehicle ($22,000-$24,000), accessories ($500 roof rack, $650 bumper, $250 roof lights, $900 Warn winch), and redesigned Solid Axle Swap ($3,000-$4,000, conservatively), amounting to about $28,000-$32,000 the owner/butcher could have bought this (in Recycler):

Description--$7,500, 1996 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 107152 miles engine rebuilt at 100000. lift, rock sliders,newer tires, looks and runs great, green #a503935 $7,500

And (after severe mods) still had money left over for a WHOLE OTHER TRUCK!!!  Or at least a driving trip around the world, with all new top-of-the-line gear like lockers, roof tents, etc.!!!

Let's see, $7,500 for the aforementioned Used Landie hull with brand new engine, lift, and sliders, $500 for license/registration fees, $500 for mechanic's run-through, $750 for new BFG AT/KO's (even though he says they're new, they might be crappy), $800 ARB bumper, $900 Warn winch, $800 Hannibal roof rack, $250 PIAA off-road lights, and that brings us to (drum roll please).........

$12,000.00!!!

And the Land Rover Owner would still have stock solid front axle, as well as parts available on six continents, and the knowledge that though it will eventually break down (it is after all a Land Rover), certified mechanics can look in a well-worn manual and see the same parts in front of them.  Parts engineered en masse in plants all over the world.

If you really were a stickler for reliability, let's do the same thing with a Toyota Land Cruiser, utilizing one of the most well-respected and reliable petrol engines and platforms in history...this one, also used (from Recycler):

1991 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 4WD, 6 cyl, snrf, air, CD, 3rd row seat, tow pkg, orig gry, nd top pnt, 109M, xlnt cond, pp#987541,$6950

$6,950 for a good-running Land Cruiser with solid front axle, and stock lockers.  Now, add $1,000 suspension lift, $500 to Rhino-Line the chipped paint on the roof, $300 sliders, $500 for license/registration fees, $1000 for mechanic's run-through (because the engine is a bit old, even though 100k miles for a Toyota is nothing), $750 for new BFG AT/KO's, $800 ARB bumper, $900 Warn winch, $800 ARB roof rack, $250 PIAA off-road lights, and $250 to detail/clean/shampoo/wax entire truck and that brings us to...

$14,000.00!!!

Still less than half of the ~$30,000 Xterra, with internationally available and recognized parts and technicians, a respectable drive-train, and solid front axle (stock) with lockers (stock!).  

For more than half a century, both these trucks have been the workhorses of Australia, Africa, and Europe, and they handle accordingly. They also carry a huge aftermarket following, the competition of which keeps the prices low.

Vehicle mods are meant to enhance the vehicle's reliability (skid plates, snorkle), to protect its passengers from being stranded (tires, disconnects, winch, recovery gear), as well as increase its efficiency and self-sufficiency (jerry cans, roof racks, batteries, etc.).

For my purposes, it must have available parts and techs from Canada to Panama, have close-to-perfect reputation for reliability, a transfer case with 4LO gears, and acceptable fuel range.  Meanwhile, it must also speed down freeways to get my ass to work on Monday, haul all the bags of sod and gravel my wife buys from Home Depot, and not require a lot of attention or maintenance.  My Xterra is perfectly suited for this.
There's a guy in Arizona with an expedition-built Toyota Tacoma, called Baja Taco.  He has a website, www.bajataco.com which shares a wealth of experience in getting from point A to point B, with interesting stops in between.  His philosophies about Solid Axle Swaps and other musings on rig platforms are denoted in a really interesting article entitled "The Tacoma as a Platform to Build On" (link: http://bajataco.com/tacoma-platform.html ), which brought me to a new appreciation of my Xterra and its articulation-challenged IFS.

Wake me up when someone swaps out the V6 for the 2.8 liter turbo diesel!

Why are you comparing Xterras with 15 year old Toyotas ? Nissan parts are available everywhere, along with spare parts for a D44 axle.

Maybe I'm missing your point.

I think I'm missing his point as well.

And I do have a solid axle toyota. And will have a solid axle Xterra as well.

Let's see, 80hp Toyota, 210hp Xterra......nope, still missing his point.

Since sarcasm doesn't translate well on the net...

I think he's saying people are wasting their money converting a X to a solid axle off road rig. There are cheaper options blah blah blah...

Me, I say each to his own. If I had the money I'd get the SAS from Calmini but that's me.

The axle appears to be a Waggy D44. In '79 or '80, waggys switched from a passenger to driver side pumpkin. Any axle after that makes a good candidate, but avoid the vacuum disconnect ones (they have a box looking thing mounted on the pumpkin itself). I got mine complete with steering, manual hubs, and brakes at a yard here in Phoenix for $235 (pulled it myself). Prices vary thoughout the country, but seem to be the highest in the southwest. Waggy axles are 60.5" wide WMS to WMS which is about 1.5" narrower than the rear end, however that's negligable.

This kit looks awesome. Too bad I already SAS'd my Fronty, but I do have an Xterra....HMMMMM.

I had a nice conversation with Steve @ Calmini last night. This kit is so damn cool, especially when you consider how it came to be. This design was conceived and fabricated in a very short time yet it is brilliantly executed. It's absolutely a production item, not a proof of concept. Steve already has the jigs and such built for this kit, they're just finalizing the details.

This design is readily adaptable to the (W)D21 Pathfinder/Hardbody platform too, about the only consideration of note is either the length of the radius arms or the location of the crossmember they anchor too. Steve likes this over the leaf-spring-setup kit they guinea-pigged on their Hardbody last year, even he wouldn't want to drive the HB as it is more than a couple or three hours on the road with the bump-steer issues it has. The Xterra drives so much better than the HB he's seriously considering re-doing the HB with this setup.

This kit is pretty much designed around 33" tires, but the length of the radius arms is adjustable so you can add a good 2+ inches of wheelbase if you like. Steve sees no problems with 35" tires on this axle.
Also, a D44 isn't your only choice, the radius arm brackets to the axle could easily be customized to just about any housing you like. Good news for krazy people like me that want to do something esoteric (Steve still dreams of the custom axle with an H233B third-member and D44 outers/knuckles, but knows it wouldn't have enough appeal to be worth the trouble)

I think Steve summed up this kit best when said "We've turned this Xterra into an XJ" (XJ is the Jeep Cherokee) which is a real complement, the XJ can turn from OK to bad-ass without much work at all.

Some notes and things to consider:
The kit uses the stock pitman arm. Nissan made it tough, the box is really way too far back on the frame rail and the arm is too close to it, but they found a way.
A complete Calmini IFS lift kit for the Xterra runs almost $1000.
The coilover shocks and springs for the SAS kit run about $800 alone.

Brent

Well do you think the first kits for toyotas started out cheap. If there arent a bunch of crazy people like us that want to try it "Just Because" then there would never be ANY aftermarket parts.

Now Back to the PICS.

I know the cost of the kit, but can't share it.
It is very fairly priced.

Ohhh, aren't you Mr. Fancy Pants!

I know everything

Coil over shocks are expensive, there is no way around that, but Calmini has priced the rest of the kit (the parts they are manufacturing) very fairly compared to SAS kits for other vehicles, like Toyotas.

Ian, I noticed that on the SAS they are doing for Doug they are using a Fox shock which I guess was a little surprising to me.

I remember hearing something about them going to Bilstein shocks on their IFS kit. If this coil over going to be designed for use with the Fox or can it be used with a properly valved shock of the same length and width?

Will they be selling the shocks with the coil over kit and providing options or is that something that someone would choose on their own based on for instance a parameter of a 2in. diameter 12inch length coil over shock?

There is a lot of difference price wise, for instance between a Sway-A-Way CO shock and a Billstein 7100 and a Fox or even if one wanted to go all the way up to a King........

How comprehensive will the kit be? I.E. including the Coil , the shocks, the arms, the heims, ect.....

Well, Ian knows he has a project X about 5 miles from his house.

I have a feeling that I'll be speaking with Calmini here in a little bit about another kit as well.

The Dana 44's limit on tires is right about 35". Much more than that and you'll need to upgrade to the 300M axles, Extreme Duty Spicer joints, etc.

Ford F150 and F250 Dana 44's will also work. But there are some to stay away from. Converting the hubs to Chevy will be the trick setup.

Finally, some real axle talk on XOC! Woo Hoo!

Thanks for sharing the info!
But I'm confused: are you saying $800 apiece for the coilovers, so $3200 total; or $800 total for all four?
One interpretation seems too high, the other seem too low based on quick web search.
Thanks!

About $800 for a pair, depending on brand and type, and that's all you need.

It looks to me on the pic that the axle in question here still has the 5-260X u-joints.

Does anyone know the spec on Jeep 44's for stock joints to know for sure?

I know the early bronco's had front 44's with the 5-260X u-joints...which can be broken spinning 33's, no locker.

FWIW it looks in the pic that it is a 6-lug hub - maybe it already has chevy outers

Yah, I just realized I had a moment of cerebral flatulence, thinking one would need all 4!
$800 a pair sounds reasonable for what you get...I'm thinking they should be fully rebuildable, yah?

It would be nice if it was around the same price as the All-Pro kit for Toyota's. That kit comes with Hy-steer crossover steering, Long travel springs, hangers, shackles, shocks, hoops, rotors, flip kit,brake lines, wheel spacers. Complete kit less axle and drive shaft for $1759. If that's the case with Calmini's I'll take it now.

maybe i missed this but what are the plans to bring up the rear to match the front??? coils in the back or a spring over.... as for Dana 44's that is a great axle but there is kit out for a Dana 35 that will give you 44 strength. Check out the new 4Wheeler magazine and they have all you would ever need to know about what axle to get!!!

Tim

I'm curious about how they are getting the gearing to match up.

Most of us have 4.9 or 4.636 gears in the rear. If it's 4.9 then 4.88 R&P are available for Dana 44. If you have 4.636 then 4.56 are available and close enough. You can get away with a mismatch as long as it's not more than 1-2% difference in gear ratio.

Edit: Or you could do regear both ends with 5.13/5.14 if you wanted 35's.

Dana 35 is a rear axle only isn't it?

If you are replacing the rear axle why would you want to waste your money on anything less than a Dana 44? Izuzu Rodeo 44 rears are perfect for an X and you get rear Discs to boot.

Rule of thumb is 1% max for street, 2% max for trail-only. 4.636 and 4.56 are 1.6% different, don't think I'd chance that unless it was a trailer queen.

Brent

How often do you drive on the street in 4WD?

Street probably wouldn't be too bad....considering the relative lack of use of 4WD on the road....only in rather slippery conditions, ideally.

But I'd imagine in some high traction, off-road situations (ie: Moab's ill-named slickrock), the gearing differences could make things a bit funk-a-rific.

And if you read further, you can see that there is a kit that will give you Dana 60 strength with a Dana 44.

I will be interested in seeing one of these done and running on the trail.

its all a matter of how much clearance you want under your axle. a dana 35 will give you a great deal of clearance for the strenght of a 44. as mentioned the other kit will give a 44 the strenght of a 60. no matter what it just depneds on your driving habbits and what you need to get the job done!!!

tim

Um, I've driven to Vail from Denver before, taking over 5 hours (usually a 2 hour drive) in 4WD. Depending on where you live, and what you do, will depend on the situation. Floridians, I don't think they have to worry about it. Alaskans however, do.

Not much talk about the skid plates... Mounting brackets on the new cross members

I would like to see the tabs mounted vertically, and the bolts fasten from the side to prevent shearing them off, but with this amount of clearance, it may not be an issue.

First off I like the design of the kit a lot and would go this route if I were to SAS another Nissan.

Going down the SAS route one thing leads to another…larger tires, lockers, driveshafts, gears, SYE, tubing, etc. and there is a lot of things to consider. One thing that comes to mind is the front brakes…the waggy stuff is much larger and heavier so you need to consider that since the stock MC & system isn't going to work as well. Looks like Doug's going with the slotted, wildwood and other stuff while others have swapped to Chev MC and whatnot.

The stock D44 shafts and ujoints are a weak point and can/do break on a regular basis for those that wheel in the rocks. I upgraded to longfield super ujoints and carry spare shafts. Strength wise a rear d44 30 spline is weaker than the stock rear H233B and a downgrade IMO.

FYI the All-Pro kit for Toyota's is more like $2,100 even on sale now since they sell the rear suspension separate ($600). Can't really compare a coli-over front setup to leaf IMO price wise.

If the CALMINI Kit including the shocks is ~ 3K then it's a good deal.

About the gearing for a DD with 35's I would go with 5.13 gears.

I've been wheeling' my 90 SAS pathy for 1.5+ years with 4.56/4.65 R&P gears on every thing including slickrock in MOAB, in the snow on the highway, etc and haven't had any problems.

About the mounting brackets…matters to me…I have 6" more clearance and so does the HB. On the Rubicon and places like that you can easily hit them.

Can't wait to see a whole bunch of SAS nissan's on a run once you go SAS you never go back

Brian

Well, I picked my truck up from Calmini today. One word, WOW! It drives great.
There are still a few things that have to happen on it (rear springs, front sway bar), but it’s basically done. Myself and Cyclemut will be testing it out the weekend of the 20th and will be reporting on the offroad piece (I know, it’s the only piece that matters), but its highway manners were very good. Bump steer was virtually non-existent; breaking was fine, overall steering was very good. In many ways it felt better than when the IFS was lifted. I’ll try and take some photos this weekend.

-Doug

The weak spot in the late model 44 isn't the u-joint or the axle, it's the u-joint caps. They have internal "C" clips that fall off when stressed. With no retainer clips the caps start to walk, you get some play, a cap works out some more, you get play between the cap and the ear, and just like that the ear ovals out and tears. Solution for this is to tack weld the caps to the ears or get aftermarket shafts that allow the use of a full clip. That will prevent 99% of D44 failures. After that the weak spot is the outer axle.

Also something to check out is ARB's new 35 spline D44 locker. It uses the D44 R&P but uses D60 axles and outers (for those that start to get real serious)

Justin

But at what $ amount? To keep it reasonably priced, that would take a little chunk of change to accomplish. Or, a buttload of time scavanging through junk yards.

A standard D44 from a mid-80's Waggy will work nicely. Remember, we don't have a 350hp V8 grunting away under the hood. We're still running aluminum transmissions, t-cases and such.

Like sticking a kidney bean under a piece of rice. Overkill. Way overkill.

Hell, we could put UniMog axles under it as well. Just not necessary.

Mog axles would be unneeded, but the gearing, lockers, tire size, strength, etc... would be taken care of along with getting greater clearance. I could see doing a set of mog axles with a disc brake conversion and 40" mtr's on Hummer prototype beadlocks with inserts. Sure it'd be complete overkill and quite a few $, but most going with the SAS setup won't be using them as daily drivers (I wouldn't, with mog axles, top speed for the X would be around 65 mph). not quite to scale, but would really be a cool set up

I think your alignment is off.

No, alignment's OK. The front end is just catching some air.

where 'bouts? i'm currently back in HB and wouldn't mind dragging my XJ out for some action... then we can test Steves claim "We've turned this Xterra into an XJ"

Somewhere in Cali. I'm arriving Friday morning, and leaving Sunday night.

Man, I can't wait to touch it. I've been looking at mine, seeing what all would have to disappear. A lot would go bye bye. I just wish I had a plasma cutter. Better that I don't, or it'd be in pieces already!

Going to start looking for an axle as soon as I get the trans in mine.

It looks like Anza Borrego. Friday looks like some basic testing over in the south end of the area, Smugglers Cave or there abouts. Saturday we might do Pinyon Mountain or just go and do some wash areas on the way to the drop off in Fish Creek and then to the Ocotillo Wells OHV area and cut across to the highway. Depending on time, maybe Coyote Creek. Sunday morning I think we may go over to the Truckhaven BLM area.
The temps might even be below 100.

-Doug

FLy a digital camera out there too while you're both at it :p

Yup, I will have digital still and video.

-Doug

Alittle late in the post to mention this, but this sure brings up a delima, should I get the current lift or wait and save.

Dont mind the delima, however. Its nice to have options.

Guess that would depend on what you wanted to do. If you think you'd get the SAS then I wouldn't waste your money lifting it right now just to do it temporarily. On the other hand if you don't see doing the SAS then knock yourself out and lift away.

Well, I may just wait till I pay it off then do it,but then again I may do when possible.

Anyone seen this weekends Trucks....
Those rockwells would be sweet!!!!

The X would be in a world of hurt trying to lug those things around, a front Rockwell setup w/ steering and brakes is 640 lbs. alone. A D44 is 240 lbs.

heepers' here we come!!!

Ooooooohhhhhhh Baaaaaaabbbbbbbbyyyyyy!

Official review from an outsider (well, me, but I didn't design it):

I was able to inspect the pre-production unit that was installed on DesertHB's Xterra by taking it on several different, Southern California, trails.

The quality is (of course) excellent. The new crossmembers bolt in nicely, with zero modification for the old torsion bar crossmember mounts, the transmission crossmember mounts and the old front diff crossmember mounts. These all bolt up nicely.

The brace that ties the front frame together (between the two upper coilover hoops) is an excellent idea as well. This does two things. Helping to keep the front portion of the frame rigid, and keeping the hoops stable at the bottom of the mounts. The mount for the track bar is more solid than I expected. I was extremely impressed with that as well.

The integrated skid plates are a nice touch. Very sturdy. Although we didn't end up touching them, I had all the confidence in their durability and strength. Awesome combination, SAS and skids.

Looking at the steering, the drag link goes from behind the crossover link (tie rod link bar) to in front of it. I originally thought that it might touch, especially during full crank steering to the right, under full droop. But, zero witness marks after wheeling, full droop and stuff, with no touching. Good to go!

I'm told that a Caster Angle adjustment is going to be included in the actual production units. Although it's not needed for DesertHB's truck at the height that it's at now, some folks may decide to go higher (myself included) and will need it.

The steering effort is also very nice. The amount of steering effort is different (easier, due to the tie rods being further in distance from the center of the ball joint pivot than the OEM steering was), but is still quite responsive. It'll just take a little bit of getting used to, and you're back in the saddle, no problem.

The front control arms are very stout. With Johnny Joints at the back, very beefy. Smooth operation of both arms, during all obstacles. Won't be worrying about those on my truck, that's for sure. Installation is going to be critical at that point of the install however, as getting the joint body straight (with the vehicle static) will be key. The joint articulates beautifully with the control arm, but if the joint is tightened off center, it could contact the mount. Definately a place to take your time.

The only additions that I would personally suggest, would be the addition of steering stabilizer mounts. Bigger tires (33's plus), with the different steering geometry of the solid axle, make for some different steering feedback that a stabilizer would take care of. The other might be a manually adjustable brake proportioning valve. But that could be an add on, as the bigger front calipers (over OEM) just take a little bit more travel to engage (got used to it fairly quickly though). It would all depend on the axle and what brakes you ended up with.

We were able to really put the strenght of the SAS swap to the test this past weekend. Standing the truck on it's front axle (back wheel off the ground, doing a severe dropoff) and the vehicle was still solid. The articulation that was allowed, vs. the OEM IFS, is phenomenal. At the point of dropping off, the movement allowed was probably the difference between an endo down the obstacle, and driving it home that night. That's no exageration.

The kit's quality is a testimonial to Calmini's efforts to continue to give it's customer's the best it possibly can. My hat's off to Steve and the crew on a job well done.

I'll be in line for one of the kits, don't doubt that.

Although a 'formal review' was not asked for from me personally, I thought that I would go ahead and give my personal opinion on the SAS, as I percieved it. I really do love it. I'm not getting paid for my opinion. Although, DesertHB's hospitality is awesome. I don't think I've drank that much beer in a long time. I'd go with him anywhere, any time. He's a true wheeler and a gentlemen, no doubt.

Great to hear, not that it wasn't expected.

I have heard some concern about the strength of the crossmember that the radius arms mount to. NOT in the crossmember itself, but in the tabs from the frame rail that it bolts to. Some, including those that have done fabrication work, feel that they aren't strong enough to take the longitudinal load that the arms would put on the crossmember between them and could use some reinforcement.

Brent

I think that only time will tell. If a brace is needed there, then it is something that would not be hard to add on later.

Brent, you need to shut up. You are not an engineer. Please stop your constant second guessing of anything that comes along. The process this kit is undergoing at this time is called durability testing. We will make the call with regards to the strength of that rear torsion bar crossmember. You, or any number of other backyard hacks should stick to what you have experienced, which in this case is nothing. When you have the ability to correctly calculate the bending moment of those stock crossmember tabs, and you can show me a legitimate problem to consider, then you may comment. In the meantime, stop trying to place a blemish on a design that has not yet been completely tested. You're not the one who has to listen to some potential customer bring this shit up 6 months from now when this kit is in production. In this case, why not try to sit back and learn something from watching the process be completed.

When we are done testing, I will make my comments, and release information on the kit.

I look forward to seeing more on this! The bolt on concept is so simple, yet ingenious.

Almost makes me wish I'd waited to SAS my truck (almost ) Mine works extremely well, but does not flex like this coilover setup does.

Bravo

Best post combo I've seen lately.

I understand Steve's frustration as I've experienced it first hand while doing fabrication. It seems everyone is an arm chair quarterback when it comes to this stuff. Everyones got an opinion, even if they have zero relative knowledge to base it from.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I was just passing on what I was told by another fabricator doing a radius-arm SAS on an Xterra not 10 miles down the road from me, also using the factory crossmember location to locate one that incorporates the radius arm mounts. He just doesn't feel that there's enough strength there to take the load, but that's his opinion. I don't know squat about this sort of thing and don't pretend to.

I have no doubt at all that Calmini has put plenty of thought into this kit, and of course we're not seeing the final product. If there's any weakness here, I'm sure you will address it. And if there isn't, there's no need to get so defensive, just back up your assessment as I'm sure you can and there's nothing more to be said on the topic. I'm not trying to cast doubt on your engineering, just sharing what one of your fellow fabricators noted. Take it as you please, but don't kill the messenger.

Edit: I do see your point about being nagged about what is probably a non-issue or one that you would address on your own. That was not the intention at all.

Brent

Sounds excellent!!!

Can't wait for testing to be complete so we can get full info.

BTW need a test vehicle from the midwest? Willing to travel hehe

No,no,no Paul. I am the test vehicle. Any day now Steve will call me and say it's time to swap yer truck. I just know it!!

I was pleased as punch when my buddy came over and showed me his new Jeep and said there is no way I could hang with him, Well I set the record straight and showed him the SAS.

Cant wait.

Brent please don't compare your fabricator buddy to calmini. I am tired of silly comparisons like that. Nobody's fabrication can compare to the products put out by a professional company who spends so much time on development and testing. It is ridiculous to compare a one garage operation to calmini. If you don't know what you are talking about then keep quiet. The fact that you are repeating what someone else told you and representing it as your own thoughts proves you don't know anything about it.

That being said the kit looks great put me in line.

I just hope enough of you guys buy the kit to make it worth while for Calmini to produce.

Kinda like the Tcase gears.

Maybe in 2 years when the X is paid for. Would the SAS render the Tcase gears worthless?

That's your problem Brent, you take advice from people who have no idea what they are talking about. Look at this thread on NOR , full of ignorant remarks from the locals.

It's really sad watching that crowd posting their comments about how much it will cost, how much it sucks, and how they can do better.

The same thing happened when the CALMINI gears came out. Those of us with a brain have them, those without are still waiting for some magical gears from some other company to materialize.

Um, no.

Well, I dont if I lack brains, I think in my case its more of a "financial thing". Hell I would have all the "fixins" if I had a set of balls and did't do everything my wife told me to do.

Is that a fair comparison? My understanding is the Tcase gears only work with a 5 speed - that right there really limits their market. Surley a company like Calmini would recognize that and accept that risk.

Just like the SAS kit - percentage wise, there just aren't that many folks that are going to be willing to modify their trucks that aggressivly. I'm sure Calmini has factored that in their decision to develop and market the kit too...

Having said that, after I get a few more years on the X I'l probalby do the Tcase and maybe even the SAS - just depends on how I'm using the X....

They work really well with an automatic too.

The main complaint has been pricing, but I just don't understand that.

People have no problems dropping $3000 on a stereo, or $1000 on wheels and tires, but $1500 for gears is too much ?

The gears are the single biggest improvement you can make to this vehicle other than a rear locker.

Everyone wanted them, everyone begged for them, but when they were released no one wanted to spend the cash. Instead, they sit around and hope that AC or some other company can magically create some for half the price.

That will never happen.

My sons and I, we make a "man" thing to go out in the garage and work on the "X" and hang out, we go camping and I take them 4X4ing. I plan on doing what I can afford to do, not just because I want to have a capable vehicle but I also will somday sell the X to one of my boys or possibly my daughter.

The X is capable off the lot but its the time I get to spend with the kids.

Bring on the SAS, Tcase gears and whatever I can add to my X while "hangen" with the boys, and then test it.

Cool - I only see the 5 speed guys talking about them so I just linked them together. Now that you mention it, I guess there isn't a reason why it wouldn't work with an auto.

Because we needed them more than the guys with autos.......

from Ian ""The same thing happened when the CALMINI gears came out. Those of us with a brain have them, those without are still waiting for some magical gears from some other company to materialize""

Okay right there you guys are witnesses Ian said I have a brain. Indirectly, but I'll take it.


The gears are just awesome. Save your nickels, whatever you have to do but get the gears.

Seriously.

Whoa, 1 page and we are well off-topic. Oh yeah, this is XOC

The T-case gears are bad-ass. My wheeling-newbie self did some crazy off-camber twisting crap a couple weeks ago and the gears kept me slow enough to feel "comfortable". Oh yeah and I idled up a hill that was probably 35° (yes it was smooth).

That SAS is sweet too. Time will tell but I may be glad I did not go ahead and SAS mine when I converted to 4wd...

I never said you didn't

I can attest that the gears work wonderfully with a SAS.

Buy them when you can. Ian said exactly what I've been saying...instead of blowing money on all that other crap and still having to hammer your truck over stuff because it won't crawl good enough, build the capabilty first, and THEN accessorize.

Same goes for lockers if you really want to take the truck to its limits.

When the hell did I EVER present this idea as my own? I made it clear from the get-go I had heard it from someone else who I felt was reasonably qualified to comment on the design and was in fact working on a very similar project himself.
He actually inherited it from another shop that did most of the initial work but was unable to complete it due to outside circumstances, and he's finishing up the rest, ironing out the kinks, and addressing things that he feels weren't quite right. He wants to beef up the crossmember-to-frame junction on it, and wasn't even really commenting on the Calmini one other than to note that it too was bolting into the same tabs on the frame.

If I haven't made it clear, I'm totally digging the Calmini kit and haven't the slightest doubt that it will be anything but as good as it gets once it arrives. If it's indeed adaptable to the axle I have in mind for my X when it gets swapped, I'd certainly jump on it unless I were to end up going with a leaf or link setup instead.

Brent

Is there a price on this yet? How about the perfect donor axle? If it was already stated and I missed it sorry.

Yeah guys, $1500 aint too shabby for gears and install. It would run me a cool $2800 if I wanted to re-gear the Rover from 3.3-1 to 4.3-1. But... it is a Rover and EVERYTHING is more expensive I think I have spent about 13-14k on crap for the truck and not one dime has gone into upgrading the shitty stereo except adding SAT radio.

Early 80's Jeep Wagoneer front axle. It is a Dana 44, with the correct bolt pattern already there. Larger disc brakes are already on it, and the steering is good to go. Just freshin' it up a bit (new wheel bearings and seals, rotors, rebuild or replace the calipers, check the carrier and pinion bearings, check the gear ratio to your current one in the rear diff, get some minor stuff welded on for the kit), and you're set. Should be able to pick up a good axle at a junkyard for about $250 (depending on if you pull it or not, U-Pull-It yards are typically a lot less).

A locker or other type of traction control device should be thought of as well, before final install. Since it's a Dana 44, a ton of aftermarket is available.

Please don´t laugh

What would you pay for one like this:



Do you think is possible to get a D44 in a better shape?

I think get a D44 would be a good idea, if the opportunity arises, one never knows

To fix the outward appearance, just get it sand blasted and spray paint it. Good as new on the outside. The inside and the mechanics of it are a different story.

If the innards are still intact, then get it. If you're planning on getting a Detroit, or something that is going to replace the carrier, and get matching gears to match the X, then really, only the axle shafts need to be in good shape.

If it were me, I'd give $150 for it, if the ball joints were good, the tie rods were good and u-joints for the axle shafts were good. Otherwise, you're going to replace/rebuild the rotors, bearings, hubs and seals anyway.

Looks like harmless surface rust to me. If the guts are good, the value of it depends on where in the country you are. They seem to sell really cheap in the midwest and northeast, but here in the southwest where I guess more people do SAS's and the demand for axles is higher, that's a $250-300 piece there. That one is good because it's complete knuckle to knuckle and has some core parts, and that steering can be pulled ad used for spare parts as well.

Clean it up and use it!

Cyclemut,

Since you did the little report for us I was wondering if you have any inside scoop as to the actual release date of it and if they have any actual MSRP for it yet?? I have seen a lot of numbers being tossed around and was wondering if you heard anything more solid along the lines of release date and price.

Calmini has had a history of saying they are going to release something on a certain date and then keep pushing it back. I think in this case they are trying to avoid that. The only thing we know right now is that they are going to produce it and when they are ready then Steve will come on here and tell us.

As far as pricing goes that is not a definate either. I seriously doubt that it is going to be the $10K that some people are throwing out there, espicially since you are going to have to supply your own axle. It's been said that it will be competitive with the SAS kit's for other vehicles, namely the tacoma/4runner wich run $1800 for a leaf spring setup. With the coil over setup I'm going to GUESS the kit will be ~$3K give or take a few hundred.

Axle

NC Dana44 on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7918860866&category=33728

I am interested in more information about how different the '05 set up will be and if Calmini is considering looking at that set up anytime soon. Why do a 3" SL when you can go straight to SAS! I am hoping for Steve or other real gurus to pipe in but this request may be way too premature. I am on the list for an '05 and starting to look for an axle.

Hmmm...that's a passenger drop axle; for Xterra SAS you need the differential on the driver's side. Strange thing is, the seller claims it's out of a 1979 Wagoneer -- & I thought those were supposed to be driver's side drop.

I think the driver side drop starts in 80 or 81.

Oops, your right; googling indicates 1980+ is driver side drop.

I don't know what the release date is. As far as price, I've been sworn to secrecy, or Steve will use my testicles for his next dyno test. Sorry, but I plan on using them still.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by xoc:
That's your problem Brent, you take advice from people who have no idea what they are talking about. Look at this thread on NOR , full of ignorant remarks from the locals.

It's really sad watching that crowd posting their comments about how much it will cost, how much it sucks, and how they can do better.

The same thing happened when the CALMINI gears came out. Those of us with a brain have them, those without are still waiting for some magical gears from some other company to materialize[QUOTE]

Not a GD one of us were commenting on "how we could do better", or "how much it sucks". Learn to read. The only negative comments were about suspected price. Bagging on another message board, and their "ignorant remarks", is just pathetic.

I've never met someone so far up a company's ass before. How does Calmini's shit taste? I've never ONCE questioned the design, strength, or workmanship of Calmini's products. They're extremely well built, almost to the point of being overdesigned. But their pricing scheme sucks. And not just for Nissan's. That goes for the Sammi products as well. They make a damn good product, and they make sure their pricing scheme reflects that.

As to the mounting tabs that some people seem to be concerned about; don't be. On paper, they should hold up. But that's why they're testing it, before releasing it. Duh! (BTW, Steve, calculating bending moments isn't all that freaking hard; quantifying how much stress is actually gonna' be there when offroading is the hard part. Good thing Brent didn't know the moment is just force times distance...) And before XOC comments on any more remarks of mine, calling them ignorant, or whatever, my degree says engineering on it. What's yours?

It sure took you long enough to crawl over here.

Your post...
That sure sounds like an ignorant fuck if you ask me.

What exactly is wrong with Calminis pricing ?

Nothing is wrong with their pricing, from a business stand point. But their prices are higher than market prices, for other vehicles.

Yeah, I know, Nissan's are a niche vehicle at the moment. That's what some of the vendors keep saying, to justify their higher prices. But Calmini doesn't have higher prices just for Nissan's. They have higher prices for Suzuki's, and Isuzu's, too. They make damn good products. But are their products twice as good as their competition? Who's to say, but their pricing sure is.

I love my Nissan as much as the next guy; I bought it to wheel it, and I knew the aftermarket situation beforehand, as well. I wouldn't own a toyota or a new model jeep, if somebody gave it to me. But paying a helluva' lot more for a product that's over-engineered, isn't worth it to me. Paying a helluva' lot more for a product that's barely engineered (slip yoke eliminator) definately isn't worth it to me.

Damn, I wish we could take this out on the trail sometime. I'd love to show your X up on the rocks. Not only can my truck go anywhere your X would be able to, but I spent a helluva' lot less on it, 'cause I didn't want to pay the extra for the blue powder coating.

And sorry, I don't check your lame ass sight very often. A lot of the info is pretty good, and some people are pretty helpful. But then there's a lot of people that are just plain assholes, and I try to limit the amount of shit I have to shovel on a daily basis. So only once every few weeks is enough of your bullshit to put up with.

So you don't think your comment was ignorant ?

Focusing on one product, the SYE from CALMINI, isn't really a fair judge of their pricing.

You're an engineer (or at least you play one on the internet), why don't you just make your own instead ?

Now head back to NOR, where people like you who think that "showing someone up on the rocks" is something to be proud of.

No, I think what I said was a smart-assed comment, off the cuff remark, just like the ones I make on a regular basis. Truth be told, I doubt the whole deal would cost more than around 4k, axle and gears included.

No, I won't design one myself, 'cause 1)I don't have a PE, and 2)I wouldn't be able to come up with anything better, or for any better price, and 3)I design airports, not mechanical parts. Maybe you didn't know, but there's lots of different engineers, other than just mechanical engineers. But we all have the same classes in statics & dynamics, to do moment calculations.

And finally, what, you don't play on the rocks? I guess you're a pavement pounder afterall. You're right, I'm wasting my time w/ a discussion w/ you. I actually thought you might be someone who would put a lift on a truck to go offroading with. Shit, man, don't you know you don't need a SAS to go to the grocery store?

I just love internet tough guys!

LMAO whole lotta mountains in KY is there?

Oh crap!! I fly about 80% of the time. Please tell me it's not into an airport that you had anything to do with.

-Doug

depends. ever been through Denver, Nashville, Knoxville, Memphis, Chicago (O'Hare), Indianapolis or Louisville? If so, then yeah, you've been through an airport that I've done some design work on. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. Rest assured, I work for a firm that is one of the best in Aviation Design, so have no fears, it was done right. If it makes you feel better, I don't do facility design; that's for Architects. I've only done little things, like Runways, Taxiways, Parking Lots, and occasionally, lighting schematics...

And yeah, there are mountains in Kentucky. Ever heard of the Appalachians? 'Ya need to get out more if you haven't...

Small world, I worked on runway and drainage design for DIA back in 1994.

So let me get this straight...

"I design airports, not mechanical parts.
I've only done little things,… like lighting schematics."

So you have no business flaunting an engineering degree and degrading designs that you don't understand. Congrats on knowing what a moment is by the way, I only wish mechanical design was that easy. As diminutive as your mechanical engineering skills are, you seem to have even less knowledge of finance and business, so I suggest you stay out of the way of Calmini, and let them do their business and design the way they see fit.

Dan (BSE, mechanical and aerospace engineering)

The Appalachians do not even come close to comparing to the San Juans or the Rocky Mountains.

You need to get out more if you think it is the same.

KUM BY YA.....................

Seriously, if you're gonna' accuse me of something, accuse me of attacking Ian for what he's said of me. I haven't once "degrad[ed] designs" of calmini. And I only mentioned what a moment was, 'cause Steve called out Brent for it. If you'd like, I can do lots of math, but I hate doing it if I'm not gettin' paid, and it doesn't prove anything, anyways.

I also never once said I "think it [Appalachians and Rockies] is [sic] the same."

Could y'all at least READ the previous posts, before answering, and attacking? It would make your attacks more reasonable, and at least on target.

Hell, even Ian knows what subject/topic to yell at me about. Come on, guys. You're gonna have to do a little bit better with the "research" and the "quoting".

Yea make me feel a little better. The tower design is a copy of the one in St. Louis, which fell over in a 40mph wind. DIA (Denver International Airport) is built in Colorado's tornado ally and winds are often well over 40MPH.

Too bad about the 30 year runways that had to be partly rebuilt after just 5 years.

But I will leave the SAS design to Calmini.

In defense of DIA and the designers (of which I was not one; the job I worked on is still in design at the moment), the original runway and apron problems seen at DIA were contractor and materials related, not design related. They got blamed on design by a couple college professors that were basing all of their opinions on theory, and had not once been involved with any of the design, decision making, and didn't technically know what they were talking about.

But back to the Calmini SAS (which I have yet to make any negative design comments on, for the record), what are the latest testing notes/results on it?

you retard.

You are the one who called Ian a mall crawler. You challenged Ian to go out with you in the rocks saying your truck will outperform his. Then said Ian has never been on rocks. If you had half a brain you would know Ian prefers rocks to mud and has done I think nearly every trail in Colorado. And if you could put two and two together that means a lot of ROCKS. If you also had half a brain you would have seen one of the probably thousands of pictures with Ian's Xterra in it on, you guessed it rocks.

You tried to call him out and got slammed plain and simple. You tried to act big with your 6000ft hills you call mountains in KY and got called out. Live with it.

whoops. sorry. didn't know I needed to add gay tags like, "LMAO" so you could read sarcasm.

Wow. I guess these guys should give up their competitions, since they're not "in the mountains". http://www.urocc.com

are they all as stupid as you out there, dumbass?

anybody that starts a west coast vs. east coast wheeling arguement is a moron. get back on topic, bitch.

oops. almost forgot. LMAO.

Seriously, go home, your kin at NOR miss you.

UROC has events in Farmington, Jellico and Utah. Lots of mountains there.

Nice try at a backpedal there but it is not going to work. You started the debate not me I merely stated you sucked and were a retard.

Anyone that comes to another message board to stir shit is a moron....

Concerning the SAS, no matter whay Calmini's final price is for the great product, it will be too much money, There is no way I, or many others, would pay that much money for this. For the price of the SAS, you could buy yourself an already more capable offroad vehicle. It doesn't make good financial sense to buy this. Don't get me wrong, I like it and I like what it can make the Xterra do, but no way does the performance equal the cost.

All this speculation about how expensive it will be and the price hasn't been released.

Gee maybe you should wait for that little bit of information..........

The way I look at it is this:

I love my Xterra, but for all its charm and prowess, it could use a bit more help in the front end to enhance my off-road experience. I could go and spend $3k - $4k on an old Jeep or Sami and have some of that ability (more and less with shorter wheelbase), but I don't want two vehicles that do the same thing. That doesn't make good financial sense to me. I could spend the same amount and improve an already awesome vehicle whose background and maintainance record I intimately know. The Xterra is newer, everything works (including A/C - knock on wood), the reliability of Nissan should take me another 150k+ miles without much issue, and I think the X is one of the coolest vehicles out there. I'd rather spend the money on my current vehicle, sacrifice some on-road ride quality (DesertHB - is it that bad?), and have something I will be completely happy with for a long time. Like I said before, I will wait another year until I have the X paid off before I make this commitment, but I am looking forward to seeing my truck as a bigger contender in the 4x4 SUV market.

That's my excuse.

My justification for the SAS is this.

I am a crappy driver who breaks crap constantly. In the end I believe I will save money on broken parts by switching to a more durable setup. Also the added stability of that much flex will make a rollover less likely.

So due to my various off road faults I need this SAS.

Off2cjb: Well duh, you could spend under $5000 to buy and build up something else older and cruder than the Xterra, say buy a $500 Samurai with a tired engine but decent body, drop in $500-1000 worth of Sidekick engine/tranny/t-case in it, and drop another grand or two in suspension, gears, and lockers and have themselves a pretty nifty little off-road toy. But there are enough of us that want to do something that isn't a dime-a-dozen already, and Calmini can appreciate that. Not to mention it sure is nice to have a fully-enclosed SUV to 'wheel instead of some noisy, drafty, unreliable old thing.
We've already invested in our Xterras, both in purchase and mods, and we've grown attached to them. We've already 'wheeled the "new" out of them and aren't afraid to take a dent or scrape here and there, much less have major surgery performed on it. Heck, some of ours aren't exactly in cherry condition and wouldn't be an easy/economical sell if we were inclined to switch to another "cheaper" 'wheeling rig, and some of us don't even have a place/means to keep another vehicle if we wanted to keep the Xterra too.
I dare say there are more than a handful of people that are prepared to spend that kind of money on a well-designed, easy-to-install, and, perhaps most importantly, UNIQUE kit.

Brent

Even on my budget SAS, the additional capability and durability make the expense WELL worth it. If you're the occassional wheeler who never hits truly hard trails then don't waste your money. I totally see the merits in SASing a late model nice truck vs. and old worn out piece of shit. Go drive an open sammy or CJ5 across country to a wheeling event and that should become very evident.

The X with this kit will drive better on road than any of the vehicles mentioned drive completely unmodified.

Well, we will see. I am thinking the cost is going to be well over $5000. Then again, what do I know.

Apparently, not much.
Your guess is way too high.

Hmmm...you mean the CalMini kit plus a decently set-up D44 (I guess $750-$2500 depending on initial axle condition, how much work you do yourself, and level of axle customization), or just the CalMini kit?
C'mon ya damn teaser

I am willing to pay for it. I have been in many a tippy situation where a SAS would have been great. We shall see the final price and such though and then I will know when to start loonking for an axle. Once I get it I can work on saving the rest for the kit and clean up the axle at the same time.

The on-road manners are very good. The very little (next to none) bumpsteer will be taken care of with a steering stabilizer.

-Doug

Excellent!

I can offer this up as well.

I happen to own one of those 'old pieces of shit'. An '83 Toyota Pickup. Solid axle front, Spooled rear, EZ locker front, etc. etc. etc., and I can tell you all, I can't wait to get my Xterra finished.

The reliability of the newer fuel injected vehicles is great. The reliability of the older stuff is, well, not so great.

Don't get me wrong, I love my little Lemondrop. She wheels very good. Excepting for the carbueration, 35" tires and stock gears. Other than that, she's a tractor!

But SAS in my Xterra? Night and day. That's all there really is to say about it.

Quit whining about not knowing the price (yet). When it does get released, most of you will end up saying "That's frickin' awesome man....I'll have to save up the money for it over the next couple of months." anyway! So just relax. You'll all be happy, and some will do it because the price is so great, and not because of the added wheel-ability.

It has always surpised me that people complain so much about the cost of a lift kit, or gears or whatnot.

If you can't afford it and get a better paying job. 4 wheeling is not a cheap hobby.

Come on all. If some can make a SAS for a newer Toyota that cost about $1500 without axle, Calmini should be some where in that ball park.

Toyota SAS

I don't understand why the price is such a secret. If it is a descent price, they sould at least give an estimate so they could gauge the demand.

That's a leaf kit on the 1.5k Toy SAS. Calmini's is a coil over.

Because they are still developing the kit. R&D costs money and they need to price it accordingly.

All Pro Off-Road also has amuch bigger market than CALMINI does with Nissans. There are probably 10 million IFS Toyotas in the world dating back to 1986.
All Pros kit is also a much simpler design.

What is SAS the acronym for?

::ducking for cover::

Solid Axle Swap

OK, we all know that t-case reduction gears for other vehicles from other companies are considerably cheaper than Calmini's Nissan gears, and maybe you think that Calmini's prices are just plain high regardless. Let's take a closer look within Calmini's own product offerings and see...
I can't be sure it's 100% economy of scale, but look at the prices for their Suzuki ~4:1 transfer case gears vs. the Nissan transfer case gears. Zuk gears are $450, Nissan gears are $1295. You can bet your ass that they sell a hell of a lot more sets for the Zuks. Hell, there's apparently enough demand that they even offer 3 different ratios, 5.14 reduction is $550, and 6.50 is $795. Again, I'm sure there is less demand for the deeper ratios, so they sell less, and must charge more to see a profit on their investment.

I'm sure Steve will correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that the production of the Zuk gears is that much less costly in terms of material and machining than the Nissan gears. The initial R&D and tooling costs are a huge investment and must be recovered before they ever see a profit. The more you sell, the less of it must be included in the cost of each kit. If they're not confident that they're going to sell enough sets at $800 to recoup the up-front costs within whatever period they target (or if they'll even see it at all), then they'll just have to charge more, plain and simple.

I still expect the Calmini SAS kit to be quite reasonable. FORGET the $10,000 number that someone foolishly threw out as a hypothetical ceiling, I don't see it coming in at even half that. Just shut up and wait until the price is announced, THEN bitch and moan if you don't like it.

Brent

Brent

[sarcasm] But I want to bitch and moan NOW!!! [/sarcasm]

I'm just looking forward to seeing what's involved and start planning for mine. No matter what the cost (within reason), knowing the work and R&D Calmini puts into their product, I will be perfectly confident with money well spent.

To complain about what will cost is just silly, with in reason of course. This hobby, as Ian said is expensive,that is the nature of the beast.

The complaints about the cost of a mod sounds alot like the patients I deal with who complain about, by anyones standards, benign issues. If you dont want to be in the hospital or dont like somthing about it then dont fucking come to the hospital, same goes for this hobby.

The way I see it SAS kit "X" amount of dollars, spending time with my kids installing it and playing in the X, PRICELESS.

Shit Ivan, you'll figure some way out to break it..

Anyone have any pics of the SAS on level ground at all? Pics of the rear suspension? I know ,I know , i'm demanding.

I will post photos of it on level ground once the new rear springs are installed. I would prefer not to post any until things are finished to avoid a bunch of half cocked comments on the rear end sagging. Currently the rear springs are re-arched with Calmini AAL/shackles and works pretty good, but is a little low. The final spring configuration will be spring over with either a flat or negative arch.
I should have the final spring configuration in about two weeks.
I will try and get some more photos posted of the front.

-Doug

Cool, thanks.

Looks very good. Any idea if it will work with RHD?

I have a question.

What is the frontend width of this SAS system? From the pictures it looks like the frontend is wider than the rear. Is this true?

How will the width effect the ability to have certain wheel/tire combos? Handling problems onroad?

Is their any clearcut pictures of the frontend on level ground?

Just curious.....

Thanks,

Stone

I'm not sure of the exact measurements, but by eyeballing it, it wasn't that far off. If anything, it may have been a visual misperception due to the fender bulges.

On road, it handled nicely. But like anything else, when you make a big change like this, you do have to get used to some different handling characteristics.

It did handle just fine though. Might have been the driver though, Doug's pretty good in California traffic. Not bad off road either.

Wonder if the kit will include the front drive shaft...

Doubtful, most systems don't, even long arm kits for Jeeps and other (already) solid axle vehicles.

Exactly what Ian stated, as it would depend solely on what you have your lift set at. Those of us going higher, wouldn't be able to use a shorter driveline.

I'm hoping that there will be a kit option though, with or without the skids and the extra stuff needed for the skids. But, I'll take it, either way.

I went ahead and posted some parking lot photos in the photo forum. I did a quick check of the front vs. the rear and it looks like the rear is almost 2 inches wider than the front.

-Doug

That's because it is. The waggy axle is 60.5" WMS to WMS and the H233B rear in an Xterra/Frontier is about 62.5"

Just a quick update on the rear. It's going to stay spring under, but with longer springs with more arch.

-Doug

Deavers?

Will they be a production item?

How much lift?

They will be a production item, but the rest of the specs will have to wait till next week.

-Doug

why not just spring over the rear to match the height of the front?????

They may actually be, but new springs would still be required.

And with a spring over for the rear, a u-bolt eliminator kit could also be utilized.

If the spring over is what someone want's then why can't they just get it custom made. I'm sure Calmini will sell the kit for just the front end like they sell just certain parts of their IFS kit.

Axle

I think this is the plan since some folks will want to run 35s. I'll know more next week. The springs are going on next week instead of this week (scheduling conflicts).

-Doug

Being new to the sport of "4 wheeling" (I have always been a 1/4 mile person), can someone please explain the advantages to a solid axle as opposed to independent suspension?

Stock front suspension...IFS, stands for Independent Front Suspension can only articulate very little. A solid front axle will give you alot more articulation, less body roll, better traction and etc.

Your stock Xterra can't do this:

Is that a challenge? Just kidding, thanks for the explaination.

Indeed, because if you use the stock springs, you're going to get SEVERE axle wrap issues.

Most likely a traction bar will be required with any spring over kit. If you find springs stiff enough to prevent axle wrap they will be too stiff to give good flex. The stock springs might work pretty good here. They already support the weight of an Xterra rear end, are relatively flat and would give decent flex in a spring over. Add a traction bar and wrap is no longer a problem.

Here's the first photo I found of what should work.


You weld it to the pumpkin or axle tube and attach the shackle end to a crossmember up front. One is all that's needed. A shackle at the forward attachment point is important to let the suspension still flex. If it's just a pivot you'll kill flex because the traction bar and leaf springs will triangulate the suspension forcing it to one position. It may be possible to use the bolts for the "third member" to do a bolt on bracket at the diff, but I would rather weld it to the axle tube further outboard to keep from interfering with the drive shaft.

The Xterra down the road that's undergoing a radius-arm/spring-over SAS as well just had a traction bar built for it. I need to get down there and have another look at it, they also completed the steering since I was last there. It's very nearly ready to get back on the road.

Yepp, I'm going to try to pay'em a visit this weekend, they should be done today (I hope). I will try to post some pics when I get a chance.

Ok it was stated that no driveshaft is in the kit.

Is there a shaft that can be bought that works or do you have to go custom?

You have to go custom. There's no other way. Some parts from the rear driveshaft can be reused but most of it is not re-usable. I guess same applies for the front shaft. But when you are going custom, I suggest go 100% custom. So CALMINI is not including the shafts. Yeah that will hike the price way up there.

So if they included them, they would offer them for free ? I don't see your logic. Were your driveshafts free ?

geez people, I'm actually w/ Ian on this one. I mean, hell, driveshafts aren't all that expensive. You could even go cheap, if you wanted to, and put a box shaft up front (not that I'd want to do it, if it'd still see pavement in 4x4).

If having to get a driveshaft made up is the limiting factor in getting a SAS, maybe you shouldn't do an SAS...

I mean, we're only talking $200 to $300 for a driveshaft. In the grand scheme of things, that's not a huge number.

Yeah, I was confused to. Then I figured it was a typo & he must've meant: "...that WOULD hike the price..."
Otherwise the logic would be a little... , , and maybe even .

EDIT: my impression was also that the D-shaft cost is < 5-10% of the hole deal; so the logic is still a little...at least... :rolleyes:

Gee man, why you gotta see things crooked all the time! How much is the kit, $5K? $10K? If either number is true, then yes, I think they should include them. But then who cares about what I think! Mine weren't free. My rear costed me about $400.00 including shipping, and front is about $350.00. That's what I meant by hiking the price.

Was it Tom Woods or High-Angle that made yours Riad? The front was a double-cardan for sure. Don't recall how the rear was set up, longer and/or double-cardan too?

People need to stop mentioning $5k and $10K for the price of this kit, it's not even close.

I had 2 new driveshafts made for my truck for a little over $400. That's not that bad. Wheeling is a pay to play sport.

Front was High Angle and the rear was Tom Wood. They are both double-cardans. However, I think the front has stronger U joints, I think Jesse at High Angle set it up to be 1350, I think rear is 1310 or some thing else. Eitherway, both are prety beefy.

So Ian, I presume you know the price? What is it?

If you read the entire thread, then you'd know that he, and others, aren't saying out of respect for Steve and Calmini. They'll release the price when they are firm on it.

I've had several driveshafts made myself. I use original Toyota double cardans, as they actually have a higher angle handling ability than the aftermarkets. If you're paying for Tom Woods, then you're paying for a name as well. I like his stuff, but I continue to go local for my shafts. I need to get a double for the rear of my Yota as well. Vibration is starting to take its toll on the rear yoke.

Getting a drive shaft made for anything isn't rocket science. Hell, get a double for both front and rear of the X, and you won't have to worry about it when you decide to go big with the lift and the articulation in the rear either.

But I will have a spare square tube front shaft, as well as a spare line for the rear. Paying for fun is .......well........the cost of fun!

Factory driveshafts have 1310 u-joints, I'd hope you at least upgraded in the process when you had the rear built.

This may be a little early, but how drivable will this system be on a daily basis? I drive about 25k a year. I will be doing a lift once the truck is paid for (two years). However it will still be my daily driver. I'm looking to do the sas and run two different sets of tires. one set for trails the other for daily use.

Found this on pirate 4x4. It's a complete waggy but could be parted out and sold, minus the D44 front of course. I think he is located in Colorado somewhere.

He is down to $1500.

pirate 4x4 classified

Looks like it's in pretty good shape. If i had the money to do an SAS i might think about it, but practicality must take priority!!!

Tim

Whats the ETA on the release?

no official release date but rumors say around the begining of the year/Xmas for whatever it's worth.

Hope we only have a few more months to wait. I believe "Options" would be the key to this conversion kit.

Well after seeing it in action I'm really looking forward to the production kit for my newly acquired black hawk 2K X. Some of my pixs can be viewed at:
http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=001710

Since costs seem to be a hot topic, for my stock X I'm planning on running lockers on both axles, 5.14 gears, 35" tires and my ballpark budgeting so far:

Core Parts:
$2.5K for the kit (~ about the same as a Jeep TJ long arm kit's)
$650 for a used D44 front 80's waggy axle ($325) refurbished with some new brakes parts ($125), lines ($50), ball joints ($50), wheel bearings ($50),misc ($50).
$250 front R&P gears, new carrier, master install kit.
$350 used rear 5.14 gears/3rd member (possible to avoid this w/ stock rear 4.9's)
$400 front CV drive shaft

Core Labor:
$350 Rear lockers and R&P install/setup. The no slip is a lunch box so I can install that myself.

$4500 swap subtotal including the kit, axle, gears, misc

Options:
$150 HD front U-joints
$225 Used D44 power trax no slip locker
$700 Rear ARB locker
$300 Skid plates
$850 35" tires and new rims

$6725 with lockers, skids, new tires, misc

Options I'm likely to take in the future:
$250 Rear Slip Yoke eliminator
$300 Rear drive shaft
$1250 3.9 crawler gears

$8525 eventual grand total

I'm planning on doing most of the work myself expect the gears/lockers with the help from friends when it comes to welding of the front arms and grinding that's needed. I confident that the whole swap can be done over a weekend

The thing about a SAS is one thing leads to another for me at least and I'm sure I will most likely end up doing more than I planned like a cage or something. Sure you can do the basic swap for less then my est. budget but for me I don't see the point of a SAS without lockers or some of the other goodies/options. Hope my estimate is high but I'm realistic and been through a SAS once already.

BTW my 2k Black hawk X is going to be my 2nd Nissan SAS , my 90 Pathy was my first and it wheels great but not really suitable as a DD but was lot less expensive (including the truck and all the mods < 5k) for a leaf sprung setup. I saved some by buying used, bartering, on closeouts, etc. and plan on doing that this time as well

Brian

around 3k, sign me up steve

just found the 44 i'm gonna use
can't wait

if you guys need axle let me know i can get you guys some prices at the yard my friend works at

$1800.00 ?!?!?!?!

Minus the axle and associated work.

http://www.purenissan.com/NP12700.jpg

Not including options:
Front Coil-Over Shocks
Optional Front Sway Bar
Rear Leaf Springs
Front CV Driveline.

Anyone heard of a final release date as this thread hasn't been posted since early Nov.

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=60;t=000216