Splicing Synthetic Rope - know How?

I need to trim off some MasterPull synthetic winch line (Its got the extra outer armor coating...)...I assumed I'd cut from the thimble side rather than the hook side....but then I need to reattach the thimble securely....and maybe make an extension rope from the part I cut off...

I've done wire rope splices...but never synthetic ropes.

Anyone familiar with this/Have advice?

- Thanks!

CALL MASTERPULL.. Dont screw around with something you dont know how to do, especially when its going to be holding a 4500lb+ truck.. Get a professional..
Besides the fact that contacting them and having them do it, should be FREE!!!

Thanks Ken!

(Got your other messege)

View from beneath the winch spool, looking up at winch.

Is this a little tight, or too tight?

I ask because Master Pull wants $44, plus downtime, to fix it.

Umm that looks like a mess! Looks like you could get more on if you got a "cleaner" wrap under load.

Basically pre-tension the rope and wrap it so that it goes in evenly and neatly (left to right, then right to left and repeat till it's all in). From the pic it looks like you just randomly wound it in without a load.

Sorry, but I question your ability to safely use your winch.

Which Warn winch is that and how long is the rope?

I agree looks "loose" find an extra person to pull on it while it is being guided by yourself. Watch your fingers while guiding. Or do the same thing with a log of good size.

That was wound on under load, pulling another X with its brakes set.

With wire rope, I'm used to the edge of one wrap setting the edge of the next, and winding on more neatly...this synthetic stuff is floppy compared to the wire, and two of us were leaning on the rope left and right to try to get it to wind more evenly...the beginning was pretty good, the last 25' feet or so look like what you see.



Its a Warn 9.5xp...the original literature specified a 125' 5/16" wire rope...I substituted a 125' 5/16" Master Pull synthetic rope...

I got the stuff last year...but didn't have a chance to install it untill a few months ago.

I later found that Warn had changed the claimed capacity to only 100' of 5/16.

So - I was winding on about 25' more than intentioned....hence the mess.

Anyway...I have a paragon run in January..., and just want to resolve my best course of action.

So far, it loks like having MP fix it by cutting off an extension and leaving 100' winch line will be the way to go...but, the rep said "If its too tight, not just a little tight".

I wouldn't bother cutting it off, unless it was rubbing up against somthing.. What are the odds you are going to use your winch with less then 25' of the cable spooled out? If you are doing a really close quarters pull, put a pully on the other rig, run your cable to the pully & back to a shackle on your rig, that way a 20' pull would spool put 40' of rope, with 80' on the drum, you are well within specs. the advantage on the extra 25' is if the tree is 110'+ away...

It IS rubbing...its smooshed against the spool bars (See top pic)...it might be hard to tell from the top pic though...but if you look closely, the rope is flattened where it runs under the bar.

It also hits the top surface of the bumper the winch is mounted in (On other side from this pic),

as shown is THIS pic:

Ya, that looks bad..
How much was on there before? 100' or 125'?

The lit said it came with 125'...but it was only 100' of wire rope...I never used the wire rope though, because I had ordered the synthetic, and didn't want to burr anything before getting the new rope on....and I hadn't measured the wire rope I took off, I just let it free wheel while a freind walked off with the hook end...

So - I ordered 125' when I only needed 100', and put it on w/o measuring....and I'd been told the synthetic wraps differently/could cross wind w/o damage, etc...I didn't sweat the wrap job other than doing it under load, and trying to get it to at least initially go onto the spool neatly.

In short, I wound on 25% more than it was supposed to hold.



I'm considering just letting out 25', and wrapping it around/onto the bumper to take up the slack....and just having a 25' headstart on getting the hook out when needed, etc.

I am not sure of the UV resistance of the rope that would be exposed though....

Hey TJ,
As I mentioned in my other message.
I believe the rope is UV resistant (confirm it with masterpull) so winding up the extra 25' on the outside of the bumper shouldnt be a problem.
The rope is exposed to UV even while on the spool, so I doubt its an issue..

" SUPERLINE I Is the only synthetic
winch line that is heated and pre-stretch to
its ultimate strength. It also has a braided
cover that provides excellent abrasion
resistance and protection against mud,
sand, dirt and UV rays. Just another highly
innovative product from Master-Pull."

I would definitely Re-spool it better and neater.
Mine definitely doesnt look like that and I have the 10 foot rock guard at the end of it spooled up.
Guide it evenly on the drum and it should fit more, as soon as it starts to rub, back it off a bit and wrap it up.
If your winch is pretty slow, at least you've got a 25' head start on a pull..

You should always (if possible) be using the max. distance of the line for a pull, because the winch is the strongest at it's first wrap. So if you've got an extra 25' on there, then you've got to walk an extra 25' more to get to an anchor point, elsewise, you'll always be pulling with the lowest rating of the winch, which, if you'll look it up, is NOT a good idea... It's only 6940 lbs on the final wrap.

Granted, 6940 will allow you to pull a 4500 lb truck up a 49* free & clear incline, but, if the vehicle is stuck, which it would be, then that degree would be drastically reduced. So, if you've got a rock, or hole that's forcing the front wheels to have to climb up 49 degrees (much more realistic than being on a 49 degree incline!), then you're at the maximum rating of the winch. Anything more, and you've now overloaded the puppy. Not a good idea...

I would cut the extra 25' off, and keep it as a spotter rope. Attach a handle to it, so it's easily grippable, and attach a clip or similiar to the other end so you can quickly attach and detach it from the rig. Having it on the winch is quite literally asking for trouble, as it's NOT a useable length for winching purposes. You could easily overload the winch if you actually pull in that last 25' of rope under load.

Two words.. SNATCH BLOCK..

Yeah - Two bumper drop shackles and a snatch block, tree straps, etc... are on board, in case I am ever so stuck (Or a compadre is...) that I need that gear ratio to pull hard enough.

Of course, with 25% more rope than rated, the new final wrap would pull even less than the 6,940 lb mentioned, perhaps more like 6,200 lb, due to the even larger effective final drive diameter...which is really closer to the weight of the truck's fully loaded condition.

Most of the places I go, where I'm likely to need the winch, seem to involve a good walk to find something to attach to...or just another (not yet stuck...) truck...and if the other truck isn't stuck, it can typically move further away if it has to....and if its the other truck that's stuck...I can back up instead.



Come to think of it...its usually more line speed, rather than more power, I'd miss in the past.

OK - I undid the last 20' or so, and wrapped it around the bumper hoop:



The license plate can still flip up when needed:



And - the rope looks a bit neater than before on the spool too:

(From the Top)



From the bottom, looking up at spool:



So - Overall - I think this pretty much should be the way to go.

i would undo all of it and cutoff the last 25' at the beginning and then secure it to the winch again. you never want to use the entire winch line anyways, leaving at least 6 wraps on the final layer, so you should be fine by fitting it back on yourself.

Thanks Southern!

You like to skip to the end of these threads and just go for it, dont'cha?

Welp, to answer the original question. Amsteel Rope is made by Samson Rope. So if you want to splice it, follow the directions for a Class II, 12 strand rope, from this page:

http://www.samsonrope.com/home/recmarine/splicing/index.cfm

Actually, to answer the original question, its a MasterPull rope...which is somewhat different from the Amsteel Blue stuff made by Samson.

Its Master Pull Superline I to be more specific...




Comparison of Synthetic Winch Lines:

Make Size / Diameter Minimum Breaking Strength

M-P SUPERLINE 5/16" 16,500lb.

M-P Winch Line 5/16" 14,500lb.

Amsteel® Blue 5/16" 12,330lb.

Vectran® 5/16" 11,700lb.

Plasma® 5/16" 11,700lb.

Spectra® 5/16" 9,000lb.

Actually, it's not that much different than Amsteel Blue. They're made by different companies, but with almost identical material.

But the method to splice amsteel blue is the same as it is for masterpull.

If you don't want an answer to your question, why even bother to ask? Why not start off with, "What should I do with this extra 25' of synthetic rope", instead of, "Splicing Synthetic Rope - know How?".

Hmmm...I'm pretty sure I DID start off with that question, because I was just going to splice it....and then I received a bunch of advice indicating it would be a bad idea...so I just wrapped the extra around the bumper...

Is that so wrong?

yep, 'cause the advice you got about not doing it was incorrect...

But hey, it's your rig. Do what you wanna' do.

Thanks Porche, I'll check it out!

If I'm not mistaken, Superline I is a braided exterior. The splice methods above won't apply. You can however get a braided splice kit, including the fid and pusher, from a yacht chandlery. I've spliced many braided lines and it's easy with the kit, nearly impossibe without.
Here's a site that shows how to...

i'm still not following all the splicing stuff. take the whole thing off cutoff the last 25' (not the end with the hook) and put the fitting back on the end or a new one and connect to the spool and under load (tree) tighten the line back on the spool. Before winding back in wrap the first 6-8 wraps as tight as you can by hand. i would never trust splicing the rope to the hook by myself, i would send that in to have it done professionally, that is just a big accident waiting to happen. I know the kickback is minimal on synthetic rope but if you are using your winch to go up an incline and it snaps because of the bad splice you don't want to go backwards hurting yourself or others. If you cut it at the connection point to the spool you have are using just a shorter version of same rope without the side effects of splicing the hook.
please tell me if i'm misreading this whole thing.

I don't know what winch TJ is using; maybe he said ahead of time, I don't know. But depending on the connection to the winch, is what will determine if he has to splice anything if he cuts off the back-end 25'.

A Ramsey winch uses a hole in the drum flange, and you just tape off the end of the rope, stick it through the hole, then clamp it down w/ a screw and a clamp on the drum flange. A warn winch, however, requires a bolt-eye hole, for the end rope to attach to. So if you needed to splice a new metal end so it would attach (assuming you don't have the crimping tools to do it cleaner), you'd need to know how to splice it. I don't know about other winches, 'cause those are the only two brands i've owned.

Also, if the superwinch rope has a braided cover, then there are directions on that link I sent, before, to cover that type of rope splicing as well.

Guys, there's nothing special about synthetic winch rope, that makes it any different than just plain 'ol synthetic rope. Or regular rope for that matter. Companies (superwinch, warn, etc.) are simply taking synthetic rope, used in the sailing sports for ages, now, and putting hooks on the end to use on an automotive winch. you can splice "winch rope" the same as any other rope, 'cause it IS the same as any other rope. There's nothin' special about it.

Porche - its a Warn 9.5xp - and the attachment is as you described.



Thats why I was origiannly wondering...I was originally going to just cut off the extra, and put the tab back on the new end...and make an extension or something out of the left overs...

Anyway...I've just wrapped the extra rope around the bumper hoop, fini.

I remember reading somewhere that the first 30' of so closest to the drum is a special/different type then the reso of the line.. somthing about tighter radius at the drom, then a wrap or 2 up from it..
Here is a writeup on Warn's synth...

That's for the Liquid Crystal stuff, I've got M-P Superline I, its not the same rope...mines got a heat shield over the wraps on the drum, but the rope's the same all the way through.



MasterPull also makes a LC rope, but again, I think its LC all the way, where the Warn one is LC on the drum only.

That's mainly to stave off heat problems associated w/ using an electric winch under load, for long periods of time (like if you're using it to power-out down a hill). For most any useage, the winch is NOT going to heat up enough to melt the rope. Just have to use common sense. If you're winching for 30 minutes straight, then yeah, you're gonna' burn the rope on an electric winch. But the good news is, you're probably going to burn up the winch, too...

If you have a hydraulic winch, you don't need any of the fansy-schmancy heat resistant wrappings at the drums, 'cause hydro's don't have the drum brake that electrics do; aka, they run cooler, for as long as you want them to.

Well, as long as the power steering pump behaves at least...the hydro's stall out too (Milemarkers are great, but you still have the power steering pump flow as a limiting factor for how long you can pull for.)

Yeah - Power out (Letting the load down easy..) is pretty much the only way to heat the drum enough to worry about...and I'm typically in need of power in...if I'm doing power out, I'd take it easy and let it catch up on cooling/splash it, etc.