5 spd. vs. auto

Which do you guys think is better and why? And if auto is better, why are most Jeeps manual? Just wondering... (I did a search in 4WD and Advanced, but found no related posts)

Hey Austin, San Antonio here, I got the V-6, 5 speed tranny im my Xterra and I love every minute of it, It just enables you to control your own gears instead of the gears controlling you, if you need to pass someone up you could just downshift and let it fly, manuel driving is the way to go, plus better gas mileage.

I would have gotten a stick, but I what to pull a
boat in the future. The stick can pull up to 3500 Lbs. The auto will pull up to 5000 Lbs. I think wheelin with auto is easier than stick in certain situations. IMO Gator

The stick will get better gas mileage...I usually got about 17 mpg, whereas I read most auto's get a little less.

Most Jeeps are 4 speed automatics. All Toyota 4Runners are now automatics. Most 2003 Xterras are automatic. In the next few years you will not be able to find a 5 speed, unless it's a sports car.

I like a manual transmission, but would prefer a 5 speed for descending, and an auto for ascending.

Sadly, Americans don't know how to drive, so they prefer an automatic. You're going to have to get used to it because soon it will be your only option.

Yep, give I'll take my auto for steep climbs over a manual any day. I've tried both ways, 12 years with 5 speed 4Runner (I figure that's over 200,000 shifts) and now over 3 years with my auto X. Going down steep inclines, well at least I can see where I'm sliding.
Both are OK off road, just depends how lazy you are and also how comfortable you would be with starting, stopping and starting again on very steep climbs with a clutch.

-Chris

I guess I'm a little confused as to why manufacturers are switching over to an all-automatic production, and as to what makes you think this....

although there are people who will argue for/against 5-speed being better for offroad, there is no argument what makes a better grocery-getter/mall-cruiser: automatic. and as it seems to be, that's waht alot of suv's and trucks are being used for nowadays. the car companies are building suv's more and more for street comfort (ifs), and more like cars.
look at luxury "suv's". the fact that there's a good market for those overpriced vehicles shows how people don't even want an suv for it's true purpose anymore.
i mean even sports cars come in auto. i'm suprised we even see manual suv's anymore.
i'm quite tired so i hope that made sense...

Americans are lazy and unskilled when it comes to driving. They want it as easy as can be, so they can talk on the phone and apply makeup while driving.

Most people don't even know how to drive a 5 speed... I've seen posts from Xterra owners here on XOC who had to buy an auto because their significant other couldn't drive a stick, that truly frightens me.

Look at Toyota, no more 5 speed 4Runners. Look at Nissan, the Xterra is automatic only if you want a supercharger, or other options. Look at BMW and Porsche, all their transmissions are going to sport automatics.

In ten years you will not be able to find a car with a manual tranny anywhere.

I'm referring to Wranglers and CJs and such... very difficult to find an auto Wrangler and did they even make auto CJs? I drive a 5 and I love it... my ex couldn't shift a gear to save her life(wasted the tranny in my Celica)... just wondering if it has any additional off-road benefits (because the gas mileage still sucks!!!)...

in terms of offroading, having a manual allows me to control my speed more than an auto would. alot of times i'm so distracted with trying to manuever around and watch the terrain i realize i'm reving my gear slightly too high. if this had been an auto i would have simply continued to accelerate. and when you over-gas on rocky/gravel/slippery terrain, it could mean trouble.
and when i start a descent i just keep it in first gear and it keeps me at a slow speed without having to brake like an automatic would.

Viva La Manual tranny!!!

Total Agreement!

Since you were asking about the Jeep (pronounced Heep in spanish, right?) thing, I'll go there...
-#1
Jeep TJ, CJ, XJ, YJs all have shorter wheel bases than most other vehicles. A jeep auto transmission is longer than their manual, especially the 4 speed auto. Jeeps have problems with drivetrain vibration due to their use of a slip yoke on the rear drive shaft. Their shorter wheelbase compounds this. Most jeepers require a slip yoke elimination kit and new longer CV style drive shaft to fix the vibrations after even a mild lift. Their newer vehicles tend to be worse for some reason. NOW, would you pick a 3 speed auto over a 5 speed manual for your X? that is the option most jeepers had (save for the cherokee XJ) befor they came out with the new Rubicon edition. BTW the rubicon comes equiped with a factory slip yoke eliminator and CV style driveshaft, so they could afford to install the longer 4 speed auto.
-#2
Even my previous XJ (yes I'm a convert) drove like crap on the road, and it was a 2000 model. When I first drove my '86 CJ-7, I took it strait to an alignment shop to find out why it wouldn't stay pointed in any direction even at low speeds. After they told me it was normal for a jeep, and I learned to drive it...don't look at the radio for more than a second...I just got used to it. What's the point? The point is most jeepers are looking for that rudamentary jeep feel in the older ones, and an auto doesn't fit into that mold well. Note to flamers, I said MOST not ALL.
-#3
People are lazy
-#4
And this is not specific to jeeps...The auto makes it easier to climb, and harder to control the descent...what's your preference?

'76-79 Jeep offered the GM TH400 automatic with the Quadra-Trac full time 4 wheel drive system in the CJ-7. It was too long for a CJ-5. Some guys have managed to squeeze a TF350 into a CJ-5, it's about 4 inches shorter than the TH400.

I wanted a stick so bad for my new XE, but a 3 week search here in Colorado yielded only one, and it didn't have the power package I wanted. They're just not making them, not in any numbers. So I caved and got the auto. I grew up on a 5 speed and, while I love my new truck, every time I slip the tranny into 'D' a little part of me dies.

hello,
my xterra is a manual tranny. on a lot of over 120 there were only 7 manuals. for most 4 wheeling it has to be a manual. you pick the gear not a computer that is run by a 10 cent fuse, better reliability should something go wrong and you have the ability to limp home if needed. i had a 98 ranger and put 5 tryannys in it the damn thing (ford engineering). one dumped on me in the mountains and i was screwed. totally locked up couldnt even turn it on. with a manual shove it into neutral and hope you have a good tow strap. the manual offers so much more versatility and reliabilty, not to mention better gas mileage, fun to drive and heck its about a thousand bucks cheaper thats a lift or near gears!!!! bottom line pick what you want and study the way you drive and buy what will make you happy. happy driving.

Pardon my injections, but in general it seems that Xterras with Auto get better gas mileage for highway use. At least that's what everyone seems to be posting elsewhere in the forum.

As far as computer's not being reliable... well I just haven't seen that trend. Yes, I know there are people with horror stories, but I definitely believe that if it wasn't more reliable and cheaper, we wouldn't be seeing OEM's going that way.

As far as loosing manual control however, I'm seeing a trend of more and more manually controlled automatics popping up. Yes, they are auto, but the tech to make them act like manuals is really pretty simple. For a 4l60e (GM) you can get a manual shifter interface for less than $300, and it just plugs into the harness.

What I would really really like to see is the Nissan CVT built for 4x4 use. Now, instead of just having a few low end gear combos for offroad use, you have an infinite set of ratio's (yes with boundaries but we know how to push those out with gear sets and such), less clutch hassle, and you would still get excellent efficiency on the roads.

You could use that supercharged engine in an optimum range if the gearing range was wide enough. I'm not sure it would weigh too much more than a manual either. The Murano's tranny is supposedly much lighter and less complex - fewer moving parts, so even when you beef it up for 4x4 use, you might get the same weight/size as a normal tranny.

Hopefully we'll see that coming down the pipe really soon.

Sorry, don't mean to be the spell check idiot, but hope you meant "interjection".

gas mileage auto vs manual...

Same transfer case ration, same differential ratio, different final drive ratio...

Manual tranny is around 1.0, the auto is around .80. Can you see the difference on the highway in top gear on both vehicles? The auto will turn slower and thus get better gas mileage. Now two things...I'm remembering these final drive numbers from my head due to the wife throwing my info out (damn neat freaks), secondly this applies to on the highway specifically.

In town I would expect the manual to get better mileage as it compensates with gears rather than slipping the torque converter.

As far as the "10 cent fuse", how many 6 cent bolts are holding your transfer case together? Maybe you could hold it together better manually.

Oh and BTW, assuming the post is readable, tdis aint no spellin bee so settle down beavis. One can inject or interject an opinion, its a matter of symantics.

I know I am stating an opinion that I think is a fact, but I would like to rephrase your comment and say - American engineering and not just Ford engineering. American cars: built to make money for service departments and to last (usually) under 100,000 miles so you can go and buy another one as soon as possible! American cars used to be synomonous with quality engineering, now they are just trying to keep up with the quality/price ratio of foreign cars....sad

The biggest reason I went with an automatic is resale value. With a five speed you're limiting the potential amount of buyers (love the X but the wife can't drive a standard!)when it comes time to sell. Just my 02 cents.

Brian

I suppose all of these are excellent reasons to opt for one trans. vs. the other.

For me - I just got tired of shifting in traffic!!

The X is my first auto outside of company cars.

that example about resale value is interesting. i hadn't thought of that before. but i can't imagine selling my x anytime soon so i don't really care about that. i'm planning on keeping my xterra until my first son runs it to the ground. i'm not even married yet so you can see it'll be along time.
i find manual to be convenient for offroading, as for the street, i think it depends on the person. i got manual and have no regrets whatsoever.

Automatic accepts larger tires easier...the built in slip makes the change less harsh on driveline components.

Automatic is a little easier on the drivetrain...also due to the inherent slip.

Automatic is easier to drive onroad and offroad ( with stock gearing and tranfercase ratio )...once you get low crawl ratios with transfercase and gears the manual is easy ( doesn't stall as easy on climbs with low low gearing ).

Stock vs Stock an automatic will have a lower crarl ratio ( 1.5 to 2.0 x the manual crawl ratio ).

Manuals can be push started if the starter goes south...automatic you are usually stuck.

Manuals give a little better wheelspeed control...Autos slip can throw you off a little.

Manual will still usally go into a gear or two even when they break...Autos will leave you stranded ( some have a limp home mode but it doesn't work in all situations ).

Gear Ratios in Manuals can be changed...Autos are all computer controlled these days and can't be changed ( granny gears for instance ).

Hell, any post that doesent involve calling someone else a moron gets at least a rating of 3 in my book. I'll gladly throw a couple more points your way CamoDatsun.

Ahhh, you will probably take them back at some time...hehehehe...Thanx!

I completely agree with Ian. Most people are lazy. They also don't enjoy driving. Cars and trucks are simply appliances nowadays. People expect to give them gas and point them where to go. With all the fancy suspensions, speed sensitive steering, liquid filled engine mounts, sound deadening material all over, too low tire pressures, navigation systems to tell them where to turn, whisper quiet exhausts, etc, it's no wonder that people feel completely disconnected from the once loved automobile...all the passion is gone...

Well I'll tell you that driving is a passion of mine, that's why I waited FOUR LONG MONTHS for my truck to be built, WITH A MANUAL, and delivered to my spec. I was not going to "settle" for a truck that cost a grand more and took the fun out of the driving experience. I will gladly wait another four months for my next truck if I can still get a manual. Otherwise, parts swapping will ensue!

You said it OnlyOneDR. I also waited 4 months to get the X built for ME, not for a demographic.

I also had to wait. I think it was more like 3 months in my case to get a manual version to my order. The convoy truck arrived, and I picked it up the very next day. I have no regrets whatsoever. I cannot bring myself to like an automatic.

Ian is correct. Cars with manual transmissions are becoming more and more rare here. Porsche and BMW still sell manuals due to the European market, and due to pressure from their respective enthusiast clubs here. Europeans still mostly prefer manual trannys, so most cars and trucks there are manual. :rolleyes:

Ok I have to throw in an opinion here, I have owned manuals all my life and my X is my first Automatic. I do not have numbers or statistics but I will say this, whenever we are on the trail the Automatics have less of a problem climbing, overcoming obstacles and overall control of their vehicle. Now you could chalk it up as experience, so maybe an Automatic is easier to learn how to wheel with?

Either way after our run yesterday I am convinced for the 50th time that Xterras rule.

We now have one of each. I have a 2002 XE V-6 4x4 5-speed and the wife now has a 2003 XE V-6 4x2 Auto. Isn't life great?

Totally agree. Most people that are new to a truck or wheeling should not be doing it in a stick. I've seen more people stall on steep inclines or roll backwards trying to start up an incline because of their lack of skill. Also smoked clutches from starting out on inclines and trying to use the clutch when crawling around in rocky areas.

Anyone can pull the auto in low and creep up a hill, stop, and proceed without major problems. Hardly anyone I know with a manual can do the same safely.

I did a lot of research on this topic before I got my auto SE. I have always been a die hard manual tranny wheeler and the X is the first auto I've ever owned. After going through countless virtual pages of virtual BS, the only downside I could find with automatics is a slight lack of control when going downhill due to the shift points being set by the tranny and not the driver. So, you learn to compensate - no big deal.

I am an "American" driver and do not consider myself lazy or incompetent, nor do I have anything to prove by shifting my way through rush hour traffic. And I DO take my truck offroad. My X does just fine both on and off-road and I do not regret my choice (except for my friend Nick who constantly rags on me about going over to the Dark Side and joining the "herd" of automatic drivers after listening to me say over and over "I"ll never own a 4WD automatic...")

I suppose this thread could go on forever, but it's a lot less of a pain in the ass for it to go on with an automatic

I dunno - I commute in suburban DC traffic with the X (and when not driving the X, drive a Miata 5 speed), and have commuted in SoCal traffic in the past with a manual transmissions and never found it that big of a deal.

It just boils down to personal preference. I just enjoy the hell out of the 5 speed. I was going to get an automatic in the X, but then I test drove then went and rented a 5 speed for a week and that changed my mind. I'm still enjoying every minute of it. When driving becomes a chore, then I suppose I will succumb and migrate to an automatic.

Thank god that time hasn't come for me yet, and I still enjoy actually driving rather than just sitting and steering...

To each his own - I have no problem with automatics - just as long as they are in other peoples vehicles

From what I can tell when driving off-road, the stick has not been that much of a problem. I guess it's all what your used to or willing to put up with. I always thought their would be less of a chance being stranded with a stick. I agree going up hill and over obstacles with an auto would be easier. I just put her in low and go. When I test drove the S/C X auto v.s. S/C X stick that made my choice clear. As far as resale goes maybe the amount of perspective buyers will be less trying to sell a 5-speed, but hey maybe someone will be willing to pay the asking prices just to have the 5-speed.

I'd hate to start a different, er..., discussion but this has been touched on only once.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the tow capacity based on the highest gear? It would make sense that an auto would be rated to pull more based on tranny because it's a 4. Your rpm's are going to drop on a manual once you shift it into 5th. 1500 lbs sounds like a lot.

Do I have it?

I have a 5 speed and love it. If I ever lose an arm or leg, I'll switch to auto...it's just no fun!

If you ever get a chance drive Red Cone Pass in Western Colorado. Going up is tricky but going down in an Auto is Suicide. I did the trail with a friend in an 01 TJ with an Auto and I have never felt closer to Death in my life. The next week it did it again in my 94 Cherokee with a 5 spd. Well ill never own a 4x4 with an Auto, case closed for me. Much better control over the vehicle in all cases which is what you need while wheeling. Auto's are for lazy people who think they can wheel (Granted some need them for physical limitations). 5 spd all the way for me.

The TJ would feel a bit more out of control with the shorter wheelbase.

I've driven Red Cone several times in my 5 speed Xterra, and it's full brakes all the way down. It doesn't make much difference between manual and auto with stock gearing, but I'm looking forward to trying the 3.92:1 gears this Summer.

I disagree strongly, you call me lazy because I drink my coffee, and smoke a cigarette, and I do not want to shift and spill my coffee?
In addition it is much easier to get intimate with my girlfriend in an Auto, I have tried it with the manual and really the shifter gets most of the fun not you. I also love smelling other peoples clutches on the trail. Some of the best wheelers I know drive Automatics.

Your not driving then - you are drinking and smoking. Driving is actually paying attention to what you are doing and you can't do that if you are focused on a beverage or a cigarette - and forget both at the same time (you do at least keep one hand on the wheel or are your knees and integral part of steering?)

It never ceases to amaze me how few people actually take driving seriously. Just looking around here in the DC metro area it's obvious that it isn't that high of a priority with all the dented up cars with bashed in rear-ends. It makes me want to get a hitch and the biggest receiver ball I can find....

I agree, it was my dry humor that got the best of me. If I smoke my coffee is in the cupholder.

If your gonna be doing some real offroading (not just improved dirt roads) then a 5 spd is the way to go. Sure its tougher to get up an incline but going up is always easier than going down. Truck, bike, or quad, I always look at an incline from the perspective of "am I going to be able to get back down this?" I've gone down trails that I'm positive I would've never made it down in an auto. But get an auto if you're a soccer mom. Get an SUV that's more suited to luxury while you're at it. 4wd on an auto tranny isn't for offroading, its for getting up a slippery boat launch ramp.

Done both.

Lived life in Colorado rockies, pulled boat to slippery ramps, driven down red cone pass, and several other hair-raising adventures. Done all of it with stick (early years) and auto; and I will say, wheel-base has a LOT to do with confidence.

Granted wheel base's were not the same, nor gearing. Early 4-wheelin was done in '76 1/2 Chevy standard long-bed; as time has passed, that ole truck has long been retired. But it had been to he and back

Had 78 chevy 3/4, long-bed, 4-by, 350 standard - fantastic as well. Carried weight fantastically, but tricky on the boat dock with a 12' camper. Better without, but she was a heavy truck anyway. For obvious reasons, too big for trail use, but had more than her fair share of finding that perfect sandy/tree hidden area on the lake.

Now have much newer 3/4 chevy, ext. cab, 4-by, standard, 454. Standard was not first choice, but no one else in town had this truck in an auto. Won't ever be on those old trails, way too big for that.

In regards to boat docking with this truck versus the auto, or even parking the boat. Love the chevy, but would take an auto anyday. Regular mountain driving (I-70) is great, but I believe it's more the power in that big V-8 versus my daily driver/trail hugger Suv's V6's.

Both current SUV's are auto's - had these in many of the same areas as the first chevy. Slightly shorter wheelbase's (107"), much different gearing; but very good stability, and less trickiness.

Old good friend has Jeep wrangler, standard - go anywhere, do anything. But, I refuse to ride in it, feels extremely top-heavy, leans too much and just feels overall like the rear is going to topple end over end coming down steep slopes.