Xterras good offroad?

Speak the truth even though im expecting a biased answer lol. Any one have some big time lifted xterras?

Nope, they suck, a CR-V can stomp an Xterra any day...

Really, read some of the discussions here, the next section (... and Advanced Stuff), the pictures section, and the events section, to see what the Xterra can do.

Why are you trolling here? :rolleyes:

no troll intended...my friend has an 4x4 xterra and we are planning to do some light wheeling (as we are both stock) and i was just tryin to see if they are...

x2
Great post Brent!

are they ifs or sfa stuff like that im looking for info on

The stock Xterra is IFS.

People have run everything from the Mall Curbs to Golden Spike to The Rubicon with IFS Xterras. Many are lifted and locked.

However, there are some people with money and or connections that are running SAS setups.

So yes the Xterra can do anything you want it to, if you have the money.

Stock, the Xterra is very capable. Tires are an obvious point for immediate improvement.

Have fun... take appropriate recovery gear and you'll take turns pulling each other out. Just wheel responsibly, please.

-Jeremy

yeah man we have some legal wheeling spots found. Thanks for the info...ill be sure to search first next time.

The rest of yall shouldnt be so quick to judge

An Xterra recovering a GC.


A Liberty recovering an Xterra. (sorry, can't see the Liberty)


So, everything gets stick once in awhile.

BTW, these were both the same day.

Yeah you can do quite a bit with em. You will be fine taking him along.

Oh here is a great thread to check out.

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002200#000000

It's got pretty poor flex - but for a stock 4x4 it's pretty good. Much better ground clearance than a Liberty.

A locker makes a world of difference.

Speaking of Liberty...
Before I bought my Xterra, before I drove anything, I was looking for a 4wd small suv that still had decent fuel efficiency. Stats-wise (ground clearence, turning radius, HP, fuel efficiency, etc), the Liberty and the Xterra seemed so close it was rediculous!

But after I drove them both, it was no contest.

The Liberty felt like a cheaper ride. It's hard to explain... it's a visceral thing. Just little things that add up, like letting off the gas and feeling "loseness" in the drivetrain, or the steering feeling too much like compact car's.
On top of that, the Xterra looks muscular (body shape and features) next to the Liberty and has the longer compartment.

I haven't gone offroad with it much though (to get back on topic). I'd really love to mud that baby up.

[edit]BTW, as background, I was test driving '04 Liberties and Xterras when there were still some on the lots after the '05s came out. I say that because, the '05 Xterra's change significantly (though they retained the same general appearence) and got quite a bit more Horsepower. After that, I think most people put the Xterra in more with the Grand Cherokee than they do the Liberty.

I don't know what the magazine numbers for ground clearance are - but my GF's liberty scrapes and bumps over everything (things that stock Xterras have NO problem with) when we go to the offroad park - it's got horrendous clearance for real world use.

I'm sure some of that is because it is an '03 - and Jeep suspension-lowered the KJ by an inch starting in '03 to make the crash-test people happy.

When I bought my X in '00 the two main contenders were the Xterra and the normal (i.e. not 'Grand') Cherokee.

Same as Zen, I thought the Jeep just didn't feel very well put together... the center console was thin and wobbly - stuff like that. Of course, at the time I didn't know diddly about solid axles, differentials, or offroad capability - so this was more of a 'regular onroad driver' type of evaluation - but the X won the "feel" test hands down.

Not to mention that the Liberty is a pain in the ass to work on, granted my X is pretty stubborn but...

Just getting to stuff in the KJ means ripping out all sorts of crap. If you want to change a starter in a KJ or the spark plugs let me know they both suck!!!

However, i thought this might be cool just to play devils advocate!!!


Id take one!!!

Tim

I wonder if it's a fully functional truck and not just a show truck.

So what's the big deal about lifting a vehicle? Anything can be lifted. If you base that as a vehicle being off-road capable, I guess you'll be buying a Yugo, eh?



The reason I won't lift my Xterra, or my Jeep, is that it makes them top heavy. The key is to go with as large a tire as possible while keeping the lift to a minimum.

I'll have to scan some pictures I took years ago with a film camera. They were taken at a local mud bog event. Monster vehicles got stuck in the mud while a stock looking Wrangler drove the entire length of the pit. The only other vehicles that made it were the highly modified rigs (running nitrous) with paddle tires that could get on top of the mud. Taller isn't always better.

So do you have a major lift kit on your Grand Cherokee?

But, as my farce above states...stupid question...

There are some good Libby mods out ther.. you can lock 'em, lift 'em... heck - there have even been a couple SAS-es... but stock to stock, the X wins.

Totally agree. I was actually looking for a picture of a SAS'ed Liberty that was an absolute monster!!!! Off course the money tree in the backyard has not bloomed yet so.....

Tim

This one?

dont they have a diesel engine avaiable now for the libby? i thought i saw that in the bathroom here at work on an offroad mag. cover.

Thats the one!!!!

And..

Yeah they have a CRD now available in the Liberty but with diesel going up????

Tim

Are you guys kidding me? A WJ?



Please do everybody a favor and don't bother feeding the trolls. ('specially if they dive a unibody)



......

Whaddya get if you put smaller tires on a CR-V?

.

.

.

A WJ!

A stock WJ would easily match a first gen Xterra offroad, and probably a second gen as well. A modded WJ would kill a modded X (unless it was sas'd).

Sorry.

No it won't. Not even close. Th ground clearance on the Xterra isn't great, but on the WJ it could scarcely be worse. It also comes stock with 2" smaller tires than my 2003 X. The WJ is also on a unibody (car) platform and requires about $1K in reinforcement before you can think about making it an offroad rig. The lack of a frame also means it is possible to dent the structural porttion of the unibody, necessitating more skids. I can drag my Xterra frame across the rocks, while the vitals need protection. With the WJ, you need to protect everything; The unibody simply isn't strong enough for offroad duty.

If had had to choose a grocery getter, I'd take the WJ. For an offroad rig, the Xterra is simply a better platform to start with.

[/qb][/QUOTE]A stock WJ would easily match a first gen Xterra offroad, and probably a second gen as well. A modded WJ would kill a modded X (unless it was sas'd).

Sorry. [/QB][/QUOTE]

That one shocked me as well...Along with what Jeff said, does the WJ have a rear locker and electronic LSD system that functions as well as the Gen II Xterras? WHat about a clocked drivetraine? 10" of clearence and 32" tires? Stock to stock a WJ would not even be able to follow a Gen II XTerra. Yes, I am sure they will be modded, but so far the Xterra has more aftermarket and will last ALOT longer...

Will a stock Rubicon smoke a Montero, despite its tiny ground clearence? Yes. But a WJ

The unibody does suck, but stock or lightly modded it doesn't present much of a problem. Ground clearance is also a problem. The trade-off for that, however, is better flex via the SFA and the option of QT II, which effectively locks both axles. It may drag around some, but I can't see much argument that a WJ w/ QT II is poorer offroad than a stock first gen X that's open (or nearly so) at both ends. Throw in a $1000 mod budget and it's game over due to the IFS. Throw in a $3,000 mod budget (or whatever a SAS costs) and the X is better (SFA and Frame, the ladder of which the WJ lacks).

I don't think a WJ is the better overall vehicle (or I'd have one), but I do recognize and accept reality.

PS - don't confuse the WJ with the WK. That's a totally different animal.

WJ, XJ, YJ, CJ,

That's the kind of Crap that I hate about every damn Heap in existance. You're like nice wrangler and the guy's like it's a TJ. I'm like it a Wrangler right he's like no it's a TJ. Then I ask him why every off road manufacture considers it a Wrangler then? I just give up.

Oh wait, it's an Xterra, no it's not, it's a Gen II X. It's funny how "those guys" are different from "us". Read it in this thread!

I call our Jeep an Unlimited Wranger. It is a TJ. The current version is completely different than the pre-98 models. Now has coil springs, and much more articulation, and the ride is a night and day difference. In the past 60 years of Jeeps, they have undergone changes. And like Gen I vs Gen II Xterras, the owners note the differences. This board is no different. Hell, we've got a "Next Generation" section of the forum. Don't get yer knickers in a knot, just pointing out things are the same here too.

:p

You must be thinking of the ZJ, which comes with a D30/D35 combo. The WJ has IFS.

Regardless, If you buy a ZJ as a grocery getter, be sure not to buy too many groceries. You may snap an axle!!!

The Xterra comes with a ladder frame and at least one good axle. With the ZJ you havta replace both.

Bring dem WJs up to CO. I'd love to see the resale value after the underbelly gets crushed!

ZJ/WJ = SFA

WK = IFS

Look it up.

I agree, thats really annoying about jeeps as a jeep outsider. Of course you can't have a problem with 1st gen and 2nd gen because it's a general term and can be applied to any vehicle. Now if we started calling them the WD22 and the N50, you'd have a case.

But on the other hand the wranglers have gone through so many changes over the years they really can't just call it a wrangler. But that doesn't make it any less annoying

Got a Nissan truck, oh no, it's a hard-body, no it's a Nismo...

If someone asked if I had a Jeep, OR a Wrangler, Or a TJ, OR an Unlimited, the answer would simply be yes. Many names, same beast. But not all Wranglers are TJs, nor are all Wranglers Unlimiteds... oh, my head hurts.

Nice having both. Went off-roading this weekend, Jeep stayed in the garage, the Xterra got dirty. Hadn't planned on it. Went on a scouting trip for a new fishing area... and found a trail. Looks like I might have found a new place to play. FWIW, the Xterra does just fine off-road.

The bottom line is that something with a unibody and Dana 30/35 axles might be fine for the backyard, but is may last choice for the backcountry.

crap.

Like I said, at least the Xterra has one good axle.

To the earlier poster comparing the Liberty to the Xterra. If my 1997 Cherokee hadn't been such a complete lemon I would have probably bought a Liberty this year. But considering the fact that in only 90,000 miles I'd gone through 2 fuel pumps, one heater core, one water pump, half the electric windows don't work, almost all of the interior plastic is broken (the center console is no longer screwed down because the mounts broke, all of the mounts for the map lights are broken, they just dangle inside console), the door locks only sporadically work, and the CD has only worked occasionally for the last 4 years, I will never buy another Chrysler for as long as I live. And I never did any real wheeling, mostly just high speeds on dirt roads. None of the Toyotas I've owned have fallen apart like that but I just couldn't see getting a 4Runner and the FJ looks too small. So now I've joined the Xterra club and couldn't be happier.

Fair enough, but longevity is a separate issue. In most situations, a stock WJ will beat a stock first gen X offroad. Period.

Jeff has always ignored that Jeep can be purchased with upgraded axles... unlike an Xterra. Our Jeep has a Dana 44: Pic. More chassis pics here. I'm not a brand snob. Each have their pros & cons.

The Jeep came with skid plates, and there's no comparing even a wussy Dana 30 axle housing against a cast aluminum anything! The first "tap" against a rock, the front axle housing on my Xterra is toast.

Nissan needs to learn about the plastic used in Jeeps. It doesn't scratch easily. My less than year old Xterra looks like I hauled barbed wire in the back most of the Winter.

Jeep needs to take a page from Nissan's book too. Figure out how to get a 4.0L to pump out lots more power while getting better gas mileage. The Jeep puts out plenty of power, but the same displacement engine in the new Nissan is a dragster by comparison (stomps Gen 1s too!).

Ain't nothin' perfect.

Too funny. The Dana 44's that are optional on your car-unibody Jeep SUVs are WEAKER than the H233B rear axle on the X.

Puty a truck frame and some real axles on those Heeps and you'll have spent more than any Xterra SAS.

.........

pnwbeers:

It's really not a question of longevity. The issue is making one trip, not many. Those axles won't last one day on a tough trail with poor conditions.

I challenge you to find ten broken H233B's out there amongst the tens of thousands of broke Dana 30s and 35s. This is not a grocery store issue but a trail issue.

It amazes me that my Jeeper friends won't even leave the pavement without a decent axle yet some Xterra owners are too busy Jeep-whorin' to realize what's what.

Whatever, guys. Bring that unibody piece of junk to Colorado and lets see what it's made of......

Jeff, you missed my signature. No, I don't own a unibody Jeep, and the Dana 44 was standard on mine. I wasn't referring to the Liberty, but rather the Wrangler series. But, like the Xterra, if you have the money, you can build most anything: SAS Liberty.

These are our toys:



We have the pleasure of owning both. Once again, I speak from experience, rather just winging it.

As I said, cast aluminum housing anything, isn't near as strong as a Dana anything. You buy yourself an 05/06, swing by my house, we'll perform a ball peen test. I'll enlighten you why cast aluminum is a piss poor choice of material on something that's subject to impact.

It's nice that with the Jeep I had the option of getting different axles, or lockers front AND rear. Even after the sale, I can swing by the dealer and have them add a lift kit, etc. I wish Nissan offered more options and upgrades.

There's a lot of things I really like about the Xterra (motor, room, comfort, ABLS, etc), but it's got some faults too. The weak front axle housing, wussy plastic interior, lack of real bumpers, very limited aftermarket support, etc. It's a great all around vehicle, but it doesn't excel at everything.

On a trail that a stock WJ could handle, I call bullshit - unless you're a really shitty driver.

Well then you're in the wrong thread. This a joke thread started by a WJ owner. Obviously, comparing a stock X to the Rubi is a moot point. The Rubicon a good, solid starting point for a trail rig. If you call that a real bumper, you are sadly mistaken. I know very few TJ trail rigs that have opted to keep the stock bumper.

Grocery store experience doesn't count. Going through a mud puddle or a sandy road isn't wheelin'.

You are also misinformed (again?) about the Dana 44 being stronger than the Nissan H233B.

The bottom line is that the Xterra is a better platform to build an offroad rig from than a unibody such as the WJ or the CR-V.

I have an '00 Xterra, as well--never compared it to anything else at the time, though. I wanted to trade my new Civic for the Xterra as soon as the chance came around.

Anyway, knowing what you know now, would you have made the same choice? Why or why not?

(just curious)

Thanks!

As mentioned earlier with money. Anything is possible.

I use to have a 1998 1wd stock height V6 S10. I took it more places than many jacked up trucks including jeeps. A lot of offroading knowing how to drive. Sadly I have a natural talent for it. But not the budget.

My friends Jeep We custom built it. It has a chevy 350motor in it.

For offroading. You can't beat a V6 or a V8 old jeep from say the 80s. (I don't know the different models). If you have some good tires. A strong motor with a winch then you can go just about anywhere.

Now, I know this is an old thread, but why the hell are the Jeep guys arguing about a model that is not even made any more (WJ). Let's compare what is currently available.

There is no doubt that a stock Jeep Rubicon is a more trail ready rig than a stock X. But compare even a base model X to the WK. I am pretty sure the X would win. Jeep is turning their vehicles into mall crawlers while Nissan is trying to at least keep some of their off road worth.

BTW, 2ManyToys, have either of your vehicles (X or Jeep) seen anything but pavement or dirt fire trails? They look way too clean and scratch free.

The original poster was inquiring as to whether or not his buddy's stock X could hang with his stock Jeep, the answer is yes, end of story...sorta...not really as we tend to do, we jumped all over the original poster

Uh, the original question was are Xterras good offroad. I compared it directly to what I actually drive, rather than winging it.

I've made the offer before Jeff, and I'll make it again. Come on down to our easy to drive State and I'll hook you up with a couple of buddies of mine. They'll give you an education of what we call swamp.

Oh, and on my planet, the horizon is horizontal, you poser:



Gee, doesn't look as tough now, eh?

And I wasn't comparing an Xterra to a Rubicon, but rather our Unlimited, which ALSO comes with a Dana 44 standard.

Buy yourself a new Xterra, we'll chain my steel bumper against your plastic one, then let the fun begin. FWIW, people tow Jeeps via the front bumper.

I think my Xterra is great, but I don't kid myself either. You can armchair quaterback all you want, you're still a poser.

Now THAT is a burn! Schweet! Jeff, you need to give it up. Not only can you not follow the arguement the whole time, but you just got called out with your pussy looking Xterra posing on a freaking ditch...

Geez. You'd think from the smack you talk that your rig might actually be built or something... What are those, street slicks? You're giving honest offroading Xterra owners/drivers a bad name.

Uh, hello? See the trunks of the trees there? Trees grow up. There's not nearly enough sky visible to determine a horizon, but the trees show vertical.

To come to Jeff's defense in the photo. The original orientation was correct. Look at the two pines on each side of the antenna.

Edit: Damn, OffroadX beat me to it.

You guys are funny.

Called out?

Why would he look down to take a picture? In the original photo his head is upright looking at the camera and in the edited incorrect one he's looking down.

BTW: Even the Rubicon doesn't come with a D44 up front. It's a D44 center with D30 axles and knuckles.

My X has a steel bumper.

Not to mention the front suspension is clearly less compressed than the rear.

Some of you just like to start shit around here.

Either way, even the basic Jeep with a Dana 30 up front is beefier than the front axle in a cast alumiunum housing on my Xterra. One tap on a rock, my housing is done.

I've seen a new Xterra without a front bumper skin. There's a piece of tin up there to hold the plastic skin in place. Certainly wouldn't withstand a jack being placed there.

Don't try this with a stock Xterra:





There are certainly better aftermarket bumpers for Jeep (and Xterras), but the stock ones work fine on a Jeep. No place to use a Hi-Lift jack on my Xterra in stock form. I've since added a hitch and looking at the Calmini bumpers -w- winch. Our Jeep will keep the stock bumpers for now. They're functional, rather than plastic.

As for the Jeff picture... I don't really care if it was doctored or not, still funny, and he is a poser. Nope, no Jeeps can go where he can with street tires. Pahleeze.

I can buy a skid that will protect the cast housing. Now I will not deny that the front diff in the new X's are not beefy, but be relistic here, a stock X can most likely keep up with a stock Jeep (of any model except the Rubicon).

No offense, but do you wheel? The only shots of either of your vehicles I have seen is in the driveway or on some sand.

I don't make any big claims like some. I don't do rock crawling. First and foremost, there aren't any rocks HERE, nor are places like that nearby.

The terrain we have here is either high and dry, like parts of Ocala, where I've posted pictures from before, or swampy, like most of where we go.

In the really swampy areas, the last thing you'd want to do is stop your vehicle and get out. You'll be up to your hips in water, and mud halfway up your shins. Nasty stuff. Because of this, few of us are willing to get out and take pictures.

But fret not, I did take a video many moons ago when a friend got his new Pathfinder. This was taken during the dry season. Try to spot any sand here:

A friend owns a chunk of land near Lake Harney, FL. Half the year much of the area is underwater. This video was taken during the "dry season". Video

A few lessons learned:

1. Don't let John drink & drive, even on his own property.
2. Even if you buy the upgraded tires from Nissan, they're still pretty sorry.
3. Automatic locking hubs on some vehicles require rolling several feet before they'll engage. So lock them early!
4. If you're going out playing off-road, take a buddy, or at least a cell phone. Having to walk 4 miles back to the campsite to get help isn't fun.
5. Find the biggest redneck you can after getting stuck. Two of 'em is better.
7. Make sure to video tape the entire event. Your buddy's friends and wife will find this even funnier.

Yes I do wheel. Not in the dry rock crawling sense some of you do. But don't dismiss swamp driving as easy, or you'll end up worse than my buddy. I have 2 4x4s, nothing else. I go out most weekends. Some dry trails, some very nasty. You and anyone else are welcome to join us.

I went Jeepin when I lived in Arizona (3 years), been to Pismo several times when TDY at VAFB:
Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4
Pic5
I've been out to Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, and Arizona on a couple of trips too. I took a 4WD Amigo and an ATV. Went on several out there. Still have more VHS tapes to convert...

In the meantime, you're welcome to take a look at some of the pictures from our club: Linky. Not much sand there either. Oh, this is what Ocala looks like in the wet season (starting next month, hopefully). Gets worse as the season goes on.

We're planning a trip in June, wanna go? No, I'm not going in the really deep stuff, I'll leave that to my buddies spinning 40"+ tires. Might be a nice change from those dry rocks though.

You're talking about automatic locking hubs, I assume. Lockers are of different species.

Yep, sorry, meant auto locking hubs.

Auto hubs don't require the vehicle to move one inch to engage. It's driveline revolution that engages them. If the rear tires can rotate, the front hubs will engage, period. That means you can either move a few feet, or the rear tires spin a rev or so. Either way, they lock.

Uh, except that Jeff's pic was a fake...

Nah, I said Jeff was a poser, which he is. Grand Master of offroading if you read his threads. I never claimed to be. Did think putting his picture level with the horizon was funny though...

Oh, this just in... we have thrown out your theory, and added our own...



Apparently he was driving DOWNhill. Note the trees.

Lighten up Francis. Jeff is quick to slam every other vehicle, and in his mind, he's always right, despite any facts proving him wrong.

"If you call that a real bumper, you are sadly mistaken". I do, I did, and I showed pics of why. Here's the Nissan version.

Hey, I love my Xterra, but it lacks in some areas. When I get enough time and cash, I'll fix those. My Jeep lacks in other areas, and I'll tweak those too in time. As I've said many times before, ain't nothin' perfect, or we'd all be driving one.

Now that's funny. That most certainly is uphill you've just referenced off a horizontal branch instead of the trees that are practically biting you in the nose.

Nice one, Einstein.

(hint: Look at the small tree by the front bumper. There's at least two others.)

BTW, that obstacle is much steeper in person than a picture will do justice. Here is a video (taken from downhill) showing the easier left line:
Video

Never said I was a big offroader. Just that my X has been offroad.

Don't even open your mouth until you take off your skirt get that Armor-all a little dirty.

You haven't been offroading and don't know a thing about it. Why not try it and come back then? Just pathetic.

I'm done with this ridiculous conversation with the guy with the super-shiny grocery getters.

:rolleyes:

Almost forgot, flatlander.....

Wha? Jeff, I was proving the picture was authentic...

not sure, as I can't speak for Jeff here, but I do believe he was using your picture as an example of how the original was authentic...and then proceded to blast 2ManyToys

Ah, once again words of wisdom from the off-roading God.

Yea, I noticed how dirty and dented your ride has gotten in the past 3 years.

Here's some unibody owners not affraid to take their rigs off-road:

http://www.lostkjwest.com/calico.htm

http://edge-offroad.com/Member_Rides/glenn.html

http://edge-offroad.com/trails/holycross/2004/holy_cross_04.htm

http://www.sn-fab.com/projects/tractech/page1.html

http://www.oramagazine.com/archive/2004/june2004/FEATURES/FEAT03/JUNE04_FEAT03_01.asp

http://www.rocky-road.com/ourkj.html

http://rubicontrail.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64

It's easy to talk smack about vehicles you've never owned or driven. It's also a shame that some feel the need to slam everything else and everyone else, to make themselves look tougher. Ever noticed you go bonkers anytime someone even hints at the word Jeep? I don't care for unibody vehicles either, but I'm not about to pretend one can't go on trails like the one you were on with a mostly stock IFS Xterra.

I'm no off-roading God and not pretending to be either. But I've been in your neck of the woods more than once, and wheeled in a number of States.

Lighten up dude. You ain't the only one who goes off-road, though you might think you are. Some of us get to play with other toys too: Linky Ground clearance will improve when we put the real wheels -n- tires on it... Shall I bore you with pictures of the M-113s I get to play with, or the Bearcat? :p

Correctamundo.

Thanks for the pic, Brent.

Oh, for those interested, HERE'S the original. YOU decide if the one he posted has been tweaked a few degrees or not:

Original



FWIW, I think the pictures on your website are cool. Looks like you've had fun. Just keep it real, eh?

Edited to point to an original copy since Jeff didn't want anyone else to see it. He replaced it with another doctored copy.

Well, I figured he'd erase the image off his website, so the link no longer works.

Jeff, that's really sad bud. You were caught, and rather than admit it, you erased it.

Here's his poser pic: Fake.

Here's the orginal: Real.

I superimposed one on top of the other, using the rear wheel as the reference point: BUSTED!!!

Like I said, you've got some cool pics on your website. Brag about where you've been, don't pretend to be something you're not. Owned my ass, you're busted buddy.

all i am going to say about this entire topic: Wow

Not too bright, are we?

The one you call "fake" is the one with the bad camera angle. The real one is the one where trees grow vertical. They should have taught you that in the second grade. Apparently you missed most of your education with the infantile crap you're pulling. Who in their right mind is going to try to talk smack about wheeling when they don't wheel? Pathetic.

Next time I hear from you I expect it it be IN PERSON on a trail. Then I can show you that obstacle in person.

Somebody move this fourth grade crap to the ALR already...



.........

.........

Back on topic:

A stock Xterra can keep up with a stock WJ no problem. The Xterra is a better platform to build a trail rig because of its rear axle and truck frame.

Bad camera angle, hah! You're a funny man. That's why you ERASED THE ORIGINAL TODAY AND REPLACED IT WITH THE DOCTORED PHOTO. I also noticed that vertical tree about where your FM stereo antenna is. Keep digging the hole, you'll find bottom sooner or later.

I called you a poser, and showed you for what you are.

I agree with you about the unibody structure vs a truck frame.

Oh, I'll change the link in my previous message to point to the original photo as I figured you'd pull a stunt like this.

2nd gen probably, 1st gen no. Deal with it.

Durability is in favor of the X, I like the X better, but I'm being honest.

Yes.

Edit - the photo looks totally legit to me in original form.

Like I said, when you're man enough to hit a trail, we'll talk. Til then, go watch TV or somethin'.

....

Back on topic:

We can just agree to disagree on that one, man.

I've seen the WJs on the trail. Between the inability to fit bigger tires, the lack of ground clearance, the crappy axles and the unibody I'm gonna havta stick to my guns on this one. Quadra-trac (or whatever it's called) doesn't do a bit of good when yer draggin your T-case, oil pan and unbody across the rocks. Once those cheesy axles break, you're not even able to drag anymore.....