Broke another Bilstein

I broke another Bilstein front shock over the weekend, that's my second so I decided to do some investigation.

The shock is failing under compression. The shock is simply too long and it splits the bottom eye mount when compressed.

The stock shock on the Xterra is 8.625" when compressed and 12.4375" extended.
The Bilstein B46-1099-H2 is 9.375 collapsed and 13.25 extended.

I will be contacting Bilstein this week to see if they can explain why this shock is being sold as a replacement for the Xterra when it is 0.75" too long.

Here is a picture of the one I broke last September (driver side), it broke in the same place as the one I broke today (passenger side).



Time to switch brands again, maybe someone can make a shock that actually fits.
NISMO lists a Rancho that is 13.25" extended and 8.69" compressed, but I can't find a match in Rancho's catalog.

The other option is to finally cut the shock tower, have a loop fabricated, and move to a longer shock.

Let us know the outcome Ian.
Those of us that have not upgraded will surely appreciate the info.

Even if Bilstein replaces this (warranty?), it can still cause serious damage. Especially those of us, including Chia, that occasionaly end up with the wheels off the ground.

-Jeremy

Well that sucks.. I was looking into them too..

Sorry it happened to ya Ian.. But thanks for the heads up..

Ian, you may want to try putting the compression stops on the shocks. I call them yellow "air bags" since I don't know exactly what they are made of, but I know they soften the blow of full compression. I know it's not the perfect answer for a longer shock, but it's worth a try.

Here\'s a picture

Now I know what brand I AM NOT going with. I will go with my Tokicos as planned.

I guess I'll throw a set of the high quality stockers into the spares bin on the truck...

I noticed those last week on SteelCityX's Xterra, since he just installed an SLR lift. It looks like they are there to limit the travel of the shock. If so, what's the point of having a longer travel suspension if it's being limited ?

They compress fully. They're there to soften the impact of full compression.

Has anybody else broken Bilsteins? I've just heard of it happening on your truck.

They compress fully. They're there to soften the impact of full compression.

That's physically impossible unless the pad compresses to zero height. I felt one last week, it's soft and squishy, but there is no way it just disappears under compression.

Has anybody else broken Bilsteins? I've just heard of it happening on your truck.

Not yet, drive a little harder

I am running polyurethane bumpstops, but they are taller than the ones SLR ships with the lift kit.

Math is math, the Bilsteins are shorter than the stock shocks by a long shot.

No shock should use up all of it's travel ever, it should always have room left at both ends of the stroke.

I think the real problem is the "added" downtravel.

The shock mount as you described needs to be moved now. I don't think you will find a true proper fitting shock. All your added supsesnsion travel is going down and is no longer balanced like the factory settings. I would suggest to just get rid of the bushing underneath the shock mount for now. That should help.

As far as the Rancho shock, I believe that one was for the Rancho lift kit for the Pathy/HB and is no longer being sold since Tenneco bought them out. Kinda a cool shock, the adjustment knob sits up top. A serious POS lift though.

I've ordered a set of Bilstiens from SLR but they're not geting shipped for a couple of days.
So if the Bilsteins are .75" too long, would that actually raise the front of your truck up .75". I'm thinking they would just compress down so the front was at the stock height, but I'm not sure.

Actually, not to go off topic, but I was going to order a stabilizer from SLR as well, and I was wondering if anyone knew why they had changed from Rancho shocks to the new brand (can't remember the name), and if anyone has any experience with the quality of the new brand?

Thanks.

i just bought my SLR kit last month and they shipped me a separate shock spacer, poly urthane bushings, and compression stops (at additional cost). I'm using bilsteins with the part number B46-1099-H0.

No, shocks have nothing to do with the ride height, that's all in the springs.

I did that with the Rancho 9188's 2 years ago, since they were too long under compression as well. The problem then is that the shock is too short at extension, and the upper arm never makes contact with the droop bumpstop. Rancho claims a compressed length of 8.4" but it's actually well over 9 inches when you include the bushings. Very misleading advertising.

Right now I'm back to the stock shocks with 2 bushings stacked on the underside of the top mount. That gives them enough extended length, and the rubber may compress enough to stop damage during compression. They should last until I find a solution (looks like new hoops is the way to go).

OK, I'm only looking at a picture, but the breaks look like the are caused by over exstension, not over compression. Am I missing something?

Regardless, that does kind of suck. I haven't broken a shock yet, but I always carry a spare for front and back.

As a side note, I do think that Rancho shocks are structurally better built than the Bilstiens; atleast from the looks of things, but the Bilstiens are far superior in valving and so ride and handling. After having Bilstiens I won't go back to anything else and will just hope that I never have the problems you are having. There just isn't anything else out there I've seen than can come anywhere near the performance, and the breakage problem does kind of seem isolated for some reason.

Does SLR have anything to say maybe about the lift and shock combination?

For those deciding to not buy the Bilstiens because of one person's experience, I would say that's a pretty sad way to base your decision. That's like not buying your Xterra because one person had a bad differential. Look around and you will see way more people that are happy with the Bilstiens. It's unfortunate that XOC is having this problem, but in the long run everyone (including Bilstien) will benefit from all the different experiences that folks have.

Ok Philosopher. And your tires never "really" touch the ground. I just meant they compress to a point that is inconsequential.

Like some guy I met in Colorado, I prefer to drive with finesse instead of breaking my truck on rocks. Since when did you joint MAXC?

Hey now! Let's not make this personal.

Whoa! Interesting thread!

XOC. As I see it, you've got 3 choices. Either some 1" longer bumpstops, or lift your truck 1" or install some springs that won't allow the truck to bottom. This last choice is what most people do, the first choice is what most knowledgeable people do.

ChuckH - The Rancho is not even close in build quality to a Bilstein. I wouldn't install one on my truck. Put them both in your hand and look. It's no comparison.

-P

I didn't
The trail yesterday was a bitch and very slippery, so the X did drop off some rocks hard with me having no control over it. It wasn't until driving downhill that I could hear it had come loose.

The one I broke in September was similar, climbing up a rock, slipping off and bouncing my foot onto the gas. It cycled the front end severaly.

None of those work.
1. Longer bumpstops would reduce travel, and I don't want that.

2. Lifting the truck wont work either, since it's already lifted and upward travel is still the same.

3. There is no such thing as a spring that won't allow the suspension to bottom.

That's what I thought at first too, but the Bilstein is plenty long enough to handle the suspension at full droop.

It looks like it was peeled open from extension, but it is happening under compression, since the force on the shock is not vertical, but at an angle.
Side force is put on the eye at that angle, and it splits open at the weld. It then opens itself up as the shock extends itself over time. It takes a while for the eye to fully open up like in the picture.

Another thought is maybe I had 2 defective shocks. The 2 broken shocks were a pair last year.

Longer bumpstops are not going to reduce travel, only wheel stuff which should make absolutely no difference at all in real world situations.

And you're wrong on #3. Eliminating suspension bottoming isn't that difficult. You do have to look at static weight on the axle in question as well as bynamic movement under load and make a calculation from there. However, springs on those rates may not be available for your truck yet. I spent a bunch of time doing these calculations for Rovers.

Good luck with your problem, and don't be afraid to look outside the realm of common components like Bistein 9100 or even 7100s.

-P

What are you high ?

Longer bumpstops will prevent the wheel from traveling as far as it does now. That will reduce wheel travel, it's what bumpstops are for. In the real world, one inch less travel is one inch less travel, and I'm not willing to give it up.

A torsion bar stiff enough to limit wheel travel would have to be a foot in diameter, and would offer no movement whatsoever. IFS needs to limit travel in both directions via bumpstops.

Ian, and anyone else who might have knowledge on this, excuse my ignorance on the subject, but I have a question..

Would this only be a problem on lifted X's? Since my minivan isn't lifted, would I have this problem on mine if I were to buy the Bilstein's? Or should I just go with Rancho's or something?

I have the Bilstiens and the Rancho RSX shocks. The Rancho's seem to me to have beefier mounting eyes and a much heavier valve rod. I think the Bilstiens are far superior in every other way though. Maybe the other Ranchos are not built as heavy as the RSX? All I know for sure is that the Bilstiens give me a phenominal ride and control that I don't think any other shock can come close to.

The problem as I have witnessed it is during compression. The shock is too long when compressed, which means a lift kit is not the problem. Then again, I'm the only person breaking them.

Which Rancho's are you going to buy ? They don't make any that are the correct length for the Xterra.

I have the stock shocks back on now, and can't feel a difference...

I don't know Ian, maybe I am high, or maybe I don't understand independent suspensions. However, it appears to me, that a bumpstop in the form I am used to is mounted on the frame or body to reduce uptravel and keep the tire from rubbing the wheelwell. On downtravel the bumpstop doesn't come into play at all as the limits on downtravel usually are either the shock, the brakeline, or axle bind from the tube or CV. Maybe the Xterra is different.

Losing 1" of uptravel would make the truck tilt a bit more on wheel stuff. If you take a look at all those super-flexy rock buggies, land rovers, early broncos, etc., you will notice they ALL use longer bumpstops. Never seems to get it their way at all. On our Land Rovers, we have 2" bumpstops as stock, and either 4" or 6" bumpstops when we go aftermarket. Considering my truck would ramp about 750 stock, and 1200 or so with the SafariGard 3 link system and a 6" bumpstop, I fail to see how the bumpstop causes "loss of travel" in any area where it matters. As I said, perhaps the X is different and you can enlighten me.

As for springs that limit bottoming, I think you are grossly overestimating what is necessary. If you look at the problem logically, you will see that the most any one spring would have to manage on flat ground, would be the entire sprung weight on either the front or the rear. In offroading situations you can add an additional 30% for weight tranfer for uphill or downhill traversing. So if we had a theoretical 400 pound truck that was 100 pounds per axle, we'd need each spring to be able to bear the load of 200 pounds plus 30%. You'd then need a torsion bar that was capable of sustaining about 260-300 pounds of load. You'd then need a shock which could damp this amount of load over the deflection of the spring.

In the case of my Rover, each rear spring needs to handle approx. 2500 pounds over its 9" of flex before the spring goes into coil bind. That means a 275# spring will offer me the correct ride without danger of bottoming on static loads. However when ballistic loads are added I need more. So I run a variable rate spring of 275-330#. My bumpstops are long enough to keep my shocks from hitting bottom which is the way the system should work. So if my truck falls off a 2 foot ledge, the spring will compress to take up the slack until it runs out of room, then the axle hits the bumptstop, and the shock is about 1.5" from full collapse height. The springs rebound, the shocks damp down the spring and the truck returns to normal ride height.

In your case, your bumpstop is too short to protect your shock from collapsing all the way. You've gone to a slightly longer shock and this kind of failure is common when that happens. We use a wooden shim on our trucks behind the normal bumpstop when we add slightly longer shocks. When we go to much longer shocks, we use a much longer bumpstop. For an example, visit the page of Chris Hinkle (http://www.geocities.com/~defender110/). If you click on the "Coil-Over" button you will see his 6" bumpstops. But if you click into the "Yellow D90" and "White D90" you will see what kind of flex he still has with those bumpstops you claim are so limiting.

-P

Here's a thought... It seems to me that on a solid axle, a longer bumpstop can limit droop on the opposite side imposing an artificial fulcrum point in relation to the frame.

???

Quite correct. However on a solid axle truck you have a lever of about 2 feet (bumpstop fulcrum to tire on same side) with about 2000-2500 pounds of weight on it, acting to extend a shock on the other side of the axle. Unless the user specifically modifies the system, the springs are not retained and so it is very easy to get that side to droop. In an independently sprung truck you have no such lever and droop is controlled only by wieght on that corner.

-P

Ian,

Just curious, how many offroad miles did your front shocks have on them before the first one broke?

Maybe I better carry my stockers for spares.

I don't know.. I was just trying to talk like I knew something and ended up talking out of my ass again..

Seriously though, I do want to improve the ride on my minivan.. Considering how shitty our roads are here, I know I could use it..

Hmmm.. What to do..

Post the model number you have.

Probably the 5188, which is 8.40" compressed and 12.49 extended according to Rancho.
I have the 9188's here and they have the same measurement (according to Rancho).

They measure to the bottom of the stud mount, not to the center of the bushing, so the shock is a bit too long. It's also too short at full droop with an aftermarket lift...

Yup Send me a set when you get them done.

The 9188 and 5188 are the same length compressed and extended. Rancho's whole numbering scheme works that way.

The trick is getting 5 inches of travel in a shock that has a body only 5 inches long. Very hard to do with a piston and valving taking up room.

Thanks for the clarifications Ian. As I said, I am somewhat ignorant with independent suspensions so I try to preface my comments that way. Better than talking out my ass.

If Bilstein advertises this shock as correct length then I see your problem. When you guys do lifts, do you extend the shocks like we do on solid axles?

-P

Lift on an IFS vehicle can happen two ways.
First, everything can be moved away from the frame X inches to achieve X inches of lift. Trailmaster started this way back in 1986 with their 4" kits for Toyotas. It worked great, the lower control arm and diff were dropped 4 inches with brackets, and the spindle was replaced with one 4 inches taller. The upper control arm stayed where it was because Toyota routes the torsion bar into the upper arm. All of the stock geometry remained, and the only thing that changed was the driveshaft angle from the transfer case.

Here's my old 88 with the Trailmaster lift...


This is tricky to do with a Nissan (or Isuzu) because the torsion bar is mounted to the lower arm, and it requires that the back end of the torsion bar be lowered as well, puttin git in harms way. Trailmaster does offer a kit for older Nissan frames.

The other option is to change the upper control arm and preload the torsion bar (what all the Xterra lifts do). This causes the arms to be at a steeper angle at static ride height, thus creating lift. The new upper arm is a different shape than stock allowing it to not touch the bumpstop as the stock arm would at the same angle. This gives the suspension more overall travel, but only by adding droop. Upward travel limit remains unchanged, which is why the compressed length of the shock must be the same as stock.

The trick with the Xterra is that the stock shock is very short. It has 4 inches of travel but needs to be 8.625 inches long compressed and 12.4375 inches extended.

By going to a longer shock, with say 5 inches of travel, you run out of room in the shock body for the piston.

The best solution is to remove the upper shock mount, and replace it with a taller one, and run an overall longer shock. Still waiting for someone to release a bolt on, or weld on kit to do this.

OE Bilstein's are sh*t. We broke both of the rears ones on our GMC Yukon. I know of some people who broke their Bilstein's on Land Rovers and Chevy trucks. It is the 5100 Series (OE) that is crap. The 7100 and 9100, on the other hand, exhibit exceptional build quality. The 7100/9100 Series are the same ones used in Baja races; they have proven them selves to be very reliable. The best shock, in terms of build quality and price, is the Old Man Emu Nitrocharger shock. I have never heard of one complaint with these shocks.

Cheers,
Mel A.

F350 front shock mounts, they are about $20 at a Ford dealer...I can dig up the part number if you want them but these are used for lots of solid axle conversions.