Widening vs Lifts

Not sure if this is 'suspension' related or not, but discussion on another board has me wondering...

(Oh, NOTE: I am by no means a mechanical genius, so Tred Lightly! )

Adding too much lift to one's vehicle can raise your center of gravity 'high' enough that tip-overs can become a serious issue. One way to counter act height is width. So, why are there no 'kits' that allow for the widening of a wheelbase? Kinda like the original Hummer in that it is, relatively speaking, squat and fat. It would seem that if you went 'high' you could counter act it with width.

Yes, you can get wider tires, but not at the rate you would need to counter say 6 inches of lift. (I *think* the ratio is 2:1 width:height)

Is the main deal cost, as you would need new axles? Or does one counter act lift with wider tires and adjusting the backspacing of your wheels?

Now, I know going wide means your vehicle would not be street legal, but that is not the concern here. I am just curious as to why no such kit is available (or maybe it is, and I just have not heard of it.)

Thoughts?

As I see it, widening the vehicle to keep the same ratio as when it was stock, after lifting, would end up being counter-productive. A lot of trails are very narrow (thanks to the Jeepers). So you can realistically only widen the vehicle to a point, and any more than that, it becomes impossible to fit on the trails.

That's why you don't see many full-size offroad vehicles (other than the pansy show trucks). They're just way too wide to go on the trails.

So, you lift it as much as you can, and widen it a few inches or so with either a new axle or better backspacing, and that's it. Rollover is an acceptable risk in offroading. Better to risk rolling over, than not fit on the trails.

But, if you look around, you will see CJ5's and CJ7's with much, much wider stances, from better axles. They've got mad articulation, too. But, they're still not really all that wide, relatively speaking, to other offroaders; it's just that the CJ5 and CJ7 start off extremely narrow.

I wouldn't call it serious, or an issue, I'm not aware of any Xterra that has tipped over because it had a lift on it.

From a generic standpoint, raising the center of gravity increases the odds of rolling.

Plenty of people have rolled with a lift, although it might be hard to say "due to" a lift...I have heard one X-X'er say he rolled due to his higher center of gravity.

Separating the actual contribution of the lift involved, without a test, would be impossible of course.

A 3" lift may not make enough of a difference to worry about on an X.

You can in fact buy wheel spacers that will widen your X's stance, and get rims with less backspacing, etc...

You will of course then have tires that are less tucked into the wells, and more likely to eat your fenders, etc.

Either you eat the fenders or the fenderwells. My truck is rubbing the frame and innder wheelwells in the back. I will either have to swap to wheels with less backspacing or get wheel spacers. Not sure which I want to do yet. Either one increases the load on the wheel bearings, so that point is moot.

Any Xterra without a rear sway bar will do that, it's not anything to be concerned about. My frame is polished nice and shiny from all the rubbing.

The Hummer is what I call bad engineering (atleast not "good engineering"). Making the vehicle so wide and impracticle to compensate for stability is stupid.

Look at the Unimogs, the smallest ones out there have the same clearance us a H1 (U404: 17 inches). Some are as high as a semi. Yet they can travel a 45 degree side slope without flipping. And still much narrower than an H1. You simply tuck all drivetrain as low as possible.

As far as the X. If you drive it like a truck, you'll be okay. If you drive it like a car, then watch out! Stock X is rated a 2 star rollover rating. Put a 3 + 3 inch lift and you'll have a 0 star truck!

Just FYI gentlemen, the Hummer (H1) was not built so wide just do to stability reasons. It was designed with that width in mind so that it could fit in the tread tracks left by an M1 Abrams tank.



That way, you could not tell how many vehicles there were in a column, and the M1 could blaze a nice trail that the Hummer could follow w/out problems.

The SLR Stage 5 lift is the only one I'm aware of that actually widens the track, and even then, it's only in the front. I'd recommend not to run wheel spacers due to the extra leverage on steering components, etc. If anything, run a rim with less backspacing. That also exerts additional leverage on components, but a steering kit such as the one Calmini offers will counteract the negative effects.

As with any lifted vehicle, drive it accordingly and it's perfectly safe.

So, I'm trying to understand, if you're not concerned with street legalities since the tires would be sticking out way too far for some soft of flare to cvompensate for then why not use full width axles. This was already referred to indirectly by the CJ5/CJ7 comment.

Many jeepers as well as any other compact vehicle looking to drive bigger than 33" tires will need a stronger axle, so most find a D44/Ford 9" combo or a D60 or two to use as full width axles. Since you're adding axles not meant for the vehicle it allows lots of room for customization of the suspension if you so desire.

Trying to make your stock (frame and axles) Xterra into a wider vehicle with wider tires, wider rims, spacers and less backspacing on those rims is only going to eliminate your flex since you will be hitting your fenders if you try to hop a curb. Those who complain about touching their fenderwells and the frame inside will have a whole new problem the first time they flex into sheet metal.

It's not the rubbing itself, but the fact that if the tire is stuffing into the wheelwell and stopping at the frame then that inhibits the droop on the other side. I know I could squeak a little more articulation out of the Revolvers if it was not rubbing so bad.