Finally! Revolvers are ON!

Well, at long last, I got the Revolvers, UBSkiderz and second set of AAL's onto the truck.



The (Folded/ride height) Revolvers are 1.25" longer than the OEM shackles, so only give about 0.75" of lift over stock.

They unfold to over 9" though on full droop.



I added the 3 pack AAL to get a bit of lift back, and to reinforce the suspension a bit: the truck scales say I'm over 2,400 lb out back

I added the UBSkidderz, as they raise the lower shock mount, and protect the leaf pack/U bolt areas, and the OEM mounts were already beat to crap, knocked crooked, etc.

On road, they feel no different from the other shackles...no quirks in handling.

I tried hard braking, swerving, steep hills and nailing the binders going down, and up...nothing unusual, feels just like normal shackles.

Side hills/off camber, better actually, the tires on the down hill side had more droop, and the uphill side compressed/stuffed more easily - essentially getting the shorter up-hill shackle/longer down-hill shackle effect.

So, so far, the only downside is that I noticed the shock length on extension I didn't have left...so the shocks are too short now.

And the drive shaft was hitting the cross member on full droop, so I had to beat the ever lovin crap out of that cross member, untill it refused to bother the drive shaft any more.



So I have aobout the same overall 3" lift..but a lot more rear droop even with the current Bils.

The Bils reach with the axle dropped level....like with the sliders on Jack stands...but, are too short if I try to stuff one side/droop the other...the drooped side is out of the shock's reach.

I haven't had time to safely crawl under there with the lower shock mount off, with one tire stuffed/the other drooped, to measure the new full droop shock length I need...I'm guessing close to 30" or so.

As I still compress to as short as 18", I'll need a shock that has a range of 18" to 30" or so - which is about a 12" travel shock, maybe a short body model, etc.

If I need more than 30" on extension...the next size up is a 14" travel set up. (Even harder to find with a 18" compressed length...)

So - I'm psyched, its works great as is (Better than before at least), and new shocks will pretty much gild that lilly.

sounds good TJ. it's about time you got these things on. I remember hearing about you getting them forever ago it seems like :p

good luck finding shocks

You've seen my garage after the tornado hit...the revolvers were in there so long they were demanding squatter's rights.

Got any pictures meng?

Making max use out of what you have is always good

Eventually you may find the stock driveshaft will be your limit, either it will pull out or the ujoint will bind/wear out rapidly. That’s pretty much what happen to Ned with his revolvers and ~30” long shocks.

I would think about a SYE and custom driveshaft that can operate at higher angles if you want more out of the Revolvers unless you want to run straps like AC recommends, but what’s the point of that?

Yeah, I prefer the strapless look.

The shaft comes out pretty easily...I took it out to beat the cross member better.

Did Ned find that 30" shocks were long enough to allow full droopage when fully one side stuffed/other drooped?

That saves me a little homework...assuming our shock mounts were both UBSkidderz, etc.



I was thinking about the shaft angles...no where near as bad as on the lifted Jeeps (1' long shafts...sheesh) where they bound over a 2" SL.

It did look as though an SYE and a joint there would help...

Now I have to chose between saving for the Low T-Case gears or shaft mods.

Freekin Sophie's Choice.



I don't have any decent pics...just driveway install-ish stuff...I have to work, and I use the truck for work, etc...

But here's a few bad ones to hold you over:

Looks good to me, i'd love to see the droop. I wanna get a set of revolvers on mine eventually.

You can always go with a center limiting strap only. It helps mine from unloading on steep decents (like wipeout hill). And keeps the driveline safely inside the transfercase. The airshocks I'm running are only limited buy the spring and revolver. I've got an extra inch or 2 each way on the shock. Remember if you add a little angle to the shocks you don't need one as long. But it will soften the feel of that shock.

What's with the "unloading" stuff?

The total travel seems to be about the same total droop as with a Deaver spring pack and lift shackles...so it's not like the rear axle falls off or anything...and even if it unfolded all the way...its only going from 4.25 to 9.5" or so, maybe another 2-3" of equivalent lift...

I went down a steep hill and nailed the brakes and nothing happened...

Have you done this and had the rear end go over the front or something?

Tell me before I do it again to check.



Angle on the shocks...I think if I increase the angle it will let a longer shock fit...as it will be further between the eyes...and, I think the more degrees off of vertical, the less effective the shock would be ...as the peak effectiveness is at the vertical to travel alignment. (More angle would be like a softer valving rate, more vertical would be closer to the shock's spec rate)

Is this what you are saying?

I am thinking about relocating the mounts for those reasons...but I want about 255/70 -ish valving...and the more angle, the harder it will be to acheive that on the truck, with off the shelf shocks...

But, it would let me find longer shocks that have the needed travel...which is ALSO hard to find in an off the shelf unit.

So - Once I get the real #'s...I can figure out what it is I need to do.

Anyway - Took some flexed pics in the drive way with a 9" ramp and the hi-lift to get some droop with at least a wee bit of compression on the opposite side to check that it shortened, not lengthened the drooped shock:











The drooped shock actually needs to go to about 28-29" if the axle drops straight down...but only 26-27" if the opposite side is more stuffed...

...it seems that once the one side is drooped, lifting the other side merely raises the shock mount position on the drooped side, as it's inset about a foot or so from the axle end.

So - the tire on the drooped side droops lower when the opposite tire is stuffed, but the inboard axle is lifted (2nd degree lever action..., so the MAXIMUM shock length IS actually needed for a FLAT/LEVEL axle droop, not an opposite stuff droop.



I did see that the OEM bumpstop's metal wingies impinge upon the inner tire sidewall area when stuffed a bit...So, I'll need to BFH them up out of the way to save the sidewalls.

At rest, the ground to rear arch distances were 41"

The at rest center of hub to top of wheel arch distance was 26.5" for both sides.

The drooped number was 36" hub to arch...or flexed to 9.5" lower than at ride height.

Putting the P side tire onto a 9" ramp raised the D side hub to arch distance to 29", or by 2.5"



I did notice that the Revolvers, which open to about 9" eye to eye, open more fully when on a flat/level droop, than the do when one side is also stuffed...so flat, the 9" unfolds readily...opposite stuffed, 8" comes easy, the rest is kind of tight.

Not sure if that's from binding due to tension of the leaves being twisted, but that's my theory so far.

When I took out the drive shaft, I noticed (Before running the revolvers) that the shaft had been hitting the side of the gas skid under compression...ther were marks on the skid, and the flange of the shaft clse to the diff was rounded at the corusponding contact point, like it had been lathed.

I had no clue about that before this...and the marks look old...so it might have been from a particular prediciment historically...but now that I know it CAN happen....I'll be looking for further evidence.

:roll:

Any way - I also Re-Weighed the truck, loaded this time...

ouch.

5,460 lb.

:shock:

2,820 on the front

2,640 lb on the back

I think I'll need to further revise my shock valving calculations.

:shock:

I really like the extra wheel travel the Revolvers give...and I'm psyched to run some rocks. (Dirt hills and road work so far, some mud, etc.)

The ride and handling has been the same as with the Calmini shackles.

very sweet looking TJ. looks like you need some new tires too.

That is SO nice of you!

What time are you dropping them off?

TJ, having done all of these measurements recently when I relocated my shock mounts, you need to be sure to to undo the bottom mounts of the shocks and take true droop measurements to get the right travel shock. Measure eye to eye to get the length measurements for on off the shelf model or some other high end shock. I'm sure you knew this but it couldn't hurt to mention it. It's the best way to get accurate suspension travel without taking too much appart. BTW, the bilstein 5150's I used to run work pretty well for the rear. If you are fabbing, you might be able to or even want to run duel 5150's on your X to make up for the wirght in the back. Just a thought.

Nice! did u have to change any of the brake lines or anything of that sort?

Ed X - Yeah, I undid the lower mounts to measure the droop I needed...so I could see the shock bottoms hanging there above the holes they'd supposed to be able to reach if long enough....etc.

C - Yeah, I lengthened the diff breather and brake lines, swapping in SS lines, and making a new grommeted bracket for the lines coming down from the frame.

I froaded it a little for work today...stilll cool, even with the short shocks.

The short shocks JUST make it on a one side stuffed droop...

I'll be getting shocks that run 17 compressed to 29" extended (12" travel)....that will cover it.

I'm working on the valving issues, as the last weight of the trucks butt was about 2,640 lb loaded w/ equipment, etc.

My gross weight is around 5,460-ish....and I have no sway bars, its dark, and I'm wearing sunglasses.

(Thats how I roll)

Bump. So, did you get the shocks sorted out? I'm considering a similar set-up but using the Calmini SAS springpacks and am curious about something.

With the UB Skidderz, they make two versions with the shock mounts either on the side or higher up on top. Now that you've got everything together, do you think it would have been more beneficial to get the top mount versions instead of the side mounts?

I'm thinking the top mounts would buy me some time on longer shocks, but am concerned that the shocks then would bottom out on compression.

Thoughts?

My shocks shocks should arrive on Monday.

Yeah - the compressed length is the problem if you get the top mount version. (Its about 4" higher...)

My 16-26" inch Bils (10" travel) are a few inches short when fully drooped.

I swapped on the UBSkidderz to raise the lower shock mount point, but added another AAL (Deaver 3 pack) to make up for the loss in revolver lift vs the Calmini lift shackles...which lowered that point again...but I removed the Load leaf, which raised that point again....



After all was said and done, I now compress to around 17" instead of 16" eye to eye...but need to go around 28-29" eye to eye to allow full droop.

Bilstein supplies custom end loops to allow adjustment of the eye to eye points, and I'm using that approach to get 17-29" travel (12") Bilstein 7100's (Short body).

That will give me the travel/extension/compression range I need to stuff/droop.

I suppose a compressed length of 16-4 = 12", with 12" of travel = extended length of 24" (12" to 24" range shock) would work, but, I wanted to stiffen the rebound while leaving the compression damping about the same, yeilding a roughly 255/100 valving solution.

The options to get that solution did not seem to include shocks of that 12" - 24" range and 255/100 valving.

Bumpity bump again.

So, what'd you end up with and is it working out?

One other thing, you mention the weight you're carrying. Isn't the center section on the revolvers made of plastic? How's that holding up? As much as I like the idea of these, I'm thinking they were probably designed for trail rigs first and not necessarily fully loaded down, heavy SUVs.

Those things holding up okay under this kind of everyday usage?

Amazing.

Not a single problem.

The plastic part is just a stop, and its not regular plastic, its more like the stuff used for hard bushings.

I imagine that under repeated impact, it would wear like my other bushing did, etc...but so far, it looks like new.

The performance has been great...long droop with stability.

All the BS about "unloading" just doesn't happen...they merely hold up the truck, and let the axle flex down to stay on the ground instead of lifting a tire.

They smoothly transition between stages of folded and unfolded, nothing odd.

I find the ride on road is smoother too, with no real change in overall handling compared to the regular shackles.

Hard braking, steep up or down hills, off camber...it just works.



Its one of my favorite mods actually.

On another message board I used to frequent for heavy steel 70's offroaders, there were a few people that ran these for a while... I don't think the plastic ever broke for any of them, but there were a few pics where the repeated hammering had slightly bent the metal backing to the plastic seating... making the vehicle sit lower. A few of them welded tabs perpindicular to help keep them straight.

The newer Revolvers - at east for the X, seem to have reinforced that backing plate, mine's pretty thick...and shows no signs of weakening.

I've been saying this stuff for years but hardly anyone listens. The entire truck's weight would have to be transferred to the front of the truck for the rear end to "unload", and at that point the truck would then have to pick up the axle as well to lose contact with the ground.

The Revolvers aren't my favorite mod, but they work.

Yeah - they act just like the oem or lift shackles in that regard.

A lot of people just don't understand how they hold up the truck, and seem to think that its like a disconnect for the rear axle, rather that essentially an adjustable length shackle.

TJ,

The revolvers on AC say that new wheels with negative 3.75" backspacing are recommended. Is this true with the teraflex as well? Thanks

TJ, another question here:

Regarding the AAL being required - what's the reason? I understand that the revolvers are not gonna provide as much lift as Calmini shackles, but I don't think that's what they meant, no?

OK - the BS - (Rear suspension...) When you droop one side wih the other side fully stuffed...the stuffed tire's inside edge rubs on the frame rail...with the 5.5" stock BS rims and 305/70/16's.

There is some room outboard for straight up stuffage, so less BS on the rear wheel would work...I don't know that I'd need more than an inch less or so...but again, its not much of a problem either way...as the rubber on the frame rail doesn't hurt anything much...at least so far.

I might get a better RTI with less rear BS...but I haven't checked it...I'm still thinking my IFS is more of a limiting factor.

So I suppose you could run less BS in back...but I'd be hesitant to use a 3.75" BS rim upfront.



As for the extra AAL...AC says on the site that the Revolver gives 1.25" of lift....which is close to what the Calmini 1.5" lift shackle does, and more than the 2" SLR shackle, etc...

But they are wrong.

It only gives 2/3" or so...because its 4.25" long eye to eye at ride height...or about 1.25" longer than stock.

So - it gives almost no lift.

I needed to get 1.5" back that I lost when I took off the Calmini shackle...and my choices were a new leaf pack ($) or an AAL (Less $).



I figured I'd give the AAL a try...and the Deaver 3 pack is very easy to install, and not expensive for that sort of thing.

SO - thats the story on the second AAL.

PS - AC got them from Teraflex who got them from Real Steel who got them from somewhere else...etc....so AC's Revolvers ARE Teraflex...and say TeraFlex on the side.

I just installed the AC Articulator kit on my 2000 X along with 33×12.5×15 BFG AT KOs on my stock rims... The longer travel Bilsteins came with the kit, and although I understand that they don't provide enough reach for maximum droop (which is level droop, as TJ pointed out), it'll have to do for now. Anyhow, since this is my first froading kit on my first truck, I'm allowing myself to go through all the paces...

Anyhow, my question is: although I understand there is no need for a limiting strap or any other form of "unloading" protection, I am paranoid and don't wanna damage my truck needlessly. Do any of you have pics of limiting straps that you've installed, or any other form of "axle-falling-out/binding" protection? BTW, I'm running without a rear sway bar, of course, and have cut off the ears on the rear bumpstops (they were just to close to my brand-spankin-new BFGs, so I immediately questionned their existence)...

Just jack it up by the rear bumper, and see what goes where when it droops.

Make sure the brake lines and diff breathers are long enough, that the drive shaft doesn't hit the cross member beneath it, and where your shocks act as travel limits.

If it drops enough to hit the cross member, you can smooth that gully down on the cross member to make more room, etc...

If a line is too short...you can either get a longer one, or, unclip it, and run it through a shorter route, and then re-clip it, to make some slack, etc.

AC has limit straps, and directions on how to install them.

I didn't need them, as when fully drooped, it was fine the way it was....the only adjustment I made was tightening the leaf pack clamps to limit fanning of the leaves to a point where I had some flexibility, but not enough to stress components.

Good Luck!

BTW - There's no unloading...there's just ordinary droop like with all shackles that swing to allow droop..its how shackles work.