more EOE center links die at Nissan Net.. Story at 10

A Frontier (running 31's I believe) killed two of the EOE center links (at the same time) this weekend at
the Nissan Net event in Kentucky.

They were going up a muddy strail hill and killed them near the top.

Later in the day the same person killed two more links (stock ones) on another trail....

Carlton please let everyone know ALL the details...you are missing AT LEAST ONE important one and that is his centerlink was completely shot and he knew that beforehand. :rolleyes: The preliminary carnage total for the weekend was 21 trucks, 12 parts damaged/destroyed including a Sway away torsion bar.

Things do break, as you know he broke stock ones that weekend as well...I still have the prototype tie rod adjusters(the new ones are even stronger) on my truck and you know I 4 Wheel my truck like its rented.

Sorry about that..

Pika blew up a auto hub
MVM killed a Sway A Way Torsion Bar
And it was Gator that nuked the tie rods (I did not see his center link)

What other parts were destroyed?

I crunched the back plastic part of the bumper (but that does not count )

BTW.. how is your diff feeling??

Pikachu's always hosing those auto hubs... Why not just replace 'em with the Warns?

There's been an awful lot of talk of broken centerlinks and/or tie rods... So far they're all on lifted Xterras with aftermarket control arms installed.

I plan on lifting the X in the front a touch more with the SAW t-bars, but not so much that I'll need new control arms - they sound like they're more trouble than they're worth, unless you really need that extra lift (and hence the correction).

I'm sure Paulw can relate...

Right... I meant lifting the truck to the point where you need control arms for strength/correction, ball joints, tie rods, etc... I don't off-road that much so far in the X, and I use it more for daily driving and road trips. I'm just saying... Hearing about the issues of pushing the X to it's (current) limits is setting a pretty good limit to the mods I'm going to do myself, in my mind...

But in these cases, yeah... We're definitely seeing limits of what the X can take. Now the trick is coming up with a solution to harden the weak link(s) or replacing everything altogether (something I don't think many of us are willing to do - yet). Of course, once this weak link is fixed, there will be another one up the line... Heh. That's the way it goes.

Poll..

OF those of you that broke the tie rods.. Are you using the A/C arms or the Calmini arms?

What about SLR?

Since on the topic of tie rod adjusters..

SLR presents the first properly built tie rod adjusters. Machined from 4130 material and heat treated to c34 Rockwell. These will be the last set of tie rod adjusters you will ever have to buy. These adjusters will replace your weak OE adjusters, and thread into you OE tie rod ends. CNC machined with ½” OR 13mm flats for ease of adjustment. “SLR” engraved into the CNC program for thoroughly tested pride. $75.00/pair with all necessary hardware. Please contact info@spencerlowracing.com or call 928.667.4757 for more information/details.

The brand of A-Arm does not make a difference. Because they all do the same thing. They all change teh angle of the Tie-Rods. The angle change is what increases torque on the CL and causes it to fail quicker...

Please don't turn this thread into another heated rant about which brand of Lift is better. They all suck when you factor in increased wear on steering components.

Cliff

IF the arms are too long then you will have to make adjustments by cranking up the T bars to far to compensate for the longer arms. I know for a fact that some of the A arms from AC are too long.

With the t-bars maxed out then you have too much angle on the tie rods thus premature failure..

What is the exact typical situation that the tie rods fail ? As in ; 4wd engaged ? Extreme articulation? What were you doing ? What have been the circumstances that lead to failure.

Boarder I don't know if you should feel deterred in doing a lift due to these failures of you don't intend on putting your truck in the same position that others who have perhaps been more extreme have.

Carlton, I know where you are going with this and I'm not here to argue with you about it..We talked a little about it this weekend. :p

What I am saying is that every a-arm design is fundamentally the same. It is a T-bar lift, which allows for more wheel travel. This allows the angle of the Tie-rods to increase the twisting force on the CL. When the CL begins to weaken and wobble easily, then then Tie-rods will bend.

It is a poor design by Nissan, and the weaknesses are magnified by lifting the truck. That's just the facts.

Cliff

SLR, Just out of curiousity, what makes these any better than the EOE Tie-rods? Are you going to guarantee and warranty unconditionally for life against breakage or bending? I'm just wondering. Because like Todd and Myself have said, parts are going to break. Tie-Rods are going to bend if the CL becomes badly worn and is twisting in the wrong way causing binding of the Tie-Rod Ends. While I am not doubting the strength of your new adjusters, I am doubting that they are the last set ever needed to buy, unless you unconditionally warranty them.

Cliff

The situation that started this thread was as follows...

Steep muddy/wet hillclimb. He was near the top and started bouncing. He also had to turn right at the top. The Bouncing combined with the turning is what destroyed the EOE Tie-Rod Adjusters.

Let's not forget that his CL was admittedly bad when he tried all this. Which allowed movement out of spec for the Tie-rod ends and adjusters.

Cliff

You are right on Cliff. That is exactly the problem. I have not trashed my tie rods yet, because I watch my POS center link, and replace it. I can't wait for some of these steering systems to become available. Hopefully we will have a good cure for all these problems.

I fully agree with you on that point.. What I was getting at is that (from what I have seen) the AC arms seem to require more lift from the torsion bars to get it into spec. Because of this it would seem that the AC arm would lend to the breaking of the tie rod center link more so than the Calmini arm. What do you think?

More curiousity than anything.. And if it is shown that it does occur more with the AC arms I would not consider that useless infomation ("or trying to start crap")

So back to the question... for those of you that have broken you center rods on your end links.. which lift are you running?

What Carlton is talking about, re:control arms being too long and adjusting the t-bars to compensate, etc. is what happened with Paulw's Xterra, if I'm not mistaken. He had Nissan Mike's arms though and he was having issues. Crank the t-bars to compensate, and the down travel was shot. Then the alignment on top of that...

Socalpunx - I know, I'm just waiting for this dust to settle before I go down this road.

Video of the climb

Brent

from the video it does not look as if he was bouncing too much.. Perhaps it looked worse at the top.

In response to Cliff's post:

SLR, Just out of curiousity, what makes these any better than the EOE Tie-rods?

Proper material & proper heat treating. To my knowledge, EOE tie rods are made from stainless material. I don't know which grade EOE is using. But I do know that 40 series steel is a government grade aerospace alloy. Stainless is great for polishing.

----

EOE: Please state what grade of stainless material you are using. Is its tensile strength 76,000 or 7,600?? Is that a tested EOE tie rod adjuster or the tensile strength of the raw material?

----

How many people use stainless bolts?? I do know that 4130 c34, which is what SLR uses for our tie rod adjusters, has a tensile strength of 125,000.

"Are you going to guarantee and warranty unconditionally for life against breakage or bending? "

It sounds like you answered your own question here.

"Because like Todd and Myself have said, parts are going to break. Tie-Rods are going to bend if the CL becomes badly worn and is twisting in the wrong way causing binding of the Tie-Rod Ends."

Cliff, it really depends on the situation. If you run all of SLR's steering components, I have no problem warrantying my steering components against any manufacturing or material flaws. Wear points are wear points on SLR's steering system.

I can't break the parts, so I would love to have a customer test and evaluate my parts. (note: I am not requesting anyone to put themselves in a dangerous situation to try to break my parts).

He was bouncing from the angle where I was. Bouncing and cutting to the right when they let go.

Cliff

Dez, a very good and acceptable response. Like I posted earlier, I would rather not have this thread turn into a pissing contest about who's stuff is better. However, you have made great points about materials. I do not know exact info about the EOE Stuff, so I won't begin to compare with my limited knowledge.

So, now when will we see this new steering setup. While I still have stock components in the front end, I don't want to start the cycle of breaking steering components.

Although, an unconditional guarantee/warranty would be great...

Cliff

Bad driving habits.

A lot more burly material for one thing. Heat treating for another.

After watching that video, there is no reason for both tie rods to bend simply driving up that hill.

I would say they were already damaged prior to that point in time and finally decided to break there.

I would like to note that the review here on XOC is of the EOE cromoly tie rod adjusters, not the stainless ones that are bending and breaking everywhere.

...and the fact that stainless is good for show cars.

As for "bad driving habits" well, that can be a problem, sure. More likely it was a weak system to begin with, and possibly aftermarket parts with too soft a material... In either case, you could just as well break the next part up the food-chain in normal off-road driving because of the spec-stretching mods and stress. I'm sure EOE's parts are just fine, to a point (like any other part) - they're certainly better than stock parts which is the whole point.

I kinda wondered about the video myself - was it too steep or washy for crawling up it?

That hill cannot be crawled in perfect conditions due to all the loose rocks/gravels/etc. It's a hill up to an old railroad bed. That being said, it rained all day and had rained most of the wek prior. It was very slick and snotty. A yellow crewcab slid from top to bottom just before gator tried to make it.

Cliff

He said tie-rods, not center links.

Tie-rods bend by crashing into stuff, and forcing one wheel into a different plane than the other.
They also bend when the centerlink goes and gets jammed up into the frame.

Careful driving (especially when you know the centerlink is damaged) will prevent the tie rods from bending.

Foot in mouth...please refrain from making comments when you have no idea what you are talking about. Gators tie rods adjusters were chromoly versions.

So SLR , is there a plan in the works as part of your steering setup to manufacture a new beefier center link ? Possibly using heavier duty tubing ? It looks like even with a new stronger tie rod , you are still at the mercy of the center link.

When I made my post, it was to the best of my knowledge. I have seen several stainless versions bend. I had not seen any cro-moly versions bend. Now I have.

I guess the point is no matter what you make it out of, if the damn dogbone centerlink goes, and slams the tie rods into the frame you are screwed.

socalpunX:


EOE: Could you please answer my question about what grade of stainless steel you are using for your tie rod adjusters?

Pricing?

For anyone who can't figure out that picture, it's a new centerlink, with sleeved ends, new gusseted double shear pitman and idler arms, new tie rod links and hardware.

That right there is some exciting stuff!

Awesome...

Ian,
Do you still feel the same way about the EOE adjusters?

Yes, they work fine.
I don't abuse my truck, and know exactly what types of driving breaks which parts, so breaking/bending them really isn't an issue for me.

It's easy not to break tie-rods. My stock ones never broke, and only bent because the swaybar bumped into them for a year.

I think switching to stainless was a mistake though by EOE.

"I think switching to stainless was a mistake though by EOE"

Walk it off, Dick!

MVM

Please keep this informative. Don't bring non-productive information into this thread.

Thanks

That picture looks promising! I need one of those now!!!!

Nice attitude. Why don't you take that 'censorship style' of post back to the AC board. I posted my opinion based on what I know about materials.
Stainless is not as strong as chromoly, get over it.

Quite whining already. Sure you posted your opinion and it's biased because of your relationship with the companies that sponser you and this board.

I'll be glad to go back to the AC board, no worries...your constant whining is getting boring...Yawn...

I wish I could buy something from SLR or Calmini but I can't. Both companies remind me of you..

SLR, Calmini, are you guys listening, XOC isn't doing you any favors regardless of what you may think. To bad too, sweet products.

MVM

Bullshit. Look up there, what do you see ? An EOE banner and a glowing review of the EOE tie-rods.

Ugh. I think this whole page (5) could be deleted. WTF?

Read back a few posts, page three or four - there's a pretty good explanation by Dez from SLR I think it was...

Basically, the chromoly steel is harder...

Sometimes.......

But, if it's just bent, it's possible to just do a trail side alignment to get off the trail. While if it's broken, you have to replace it on the trail.

It all depends on how far it bends...Gator drove back to Florida with 1 Adjuster bent pretty bad.

Cliff

...And one of my stock ones to use if he needed it.

Brent

I agree, but if you were out of spares, then you could limp home...

Cliff

Your right. My bad guys. XOC my comments were totally out of line as stated in the PM. I must be PMS "ing" or something.

MVM

It's all the drugs you are probably on due to the busted knee.......

Cliff