05 Xterra driven 200km before delivery

I signed the papers for an 05 Xterra Offroad in Knight Armour, which seems to be one of the rare combinations to find right now. My dealer found one 200km and had the sales man go there and drive it 200km back.

I was not informed before this happened.

Besides, at least they could have hauled it back!

So not only are they expecting me to take delivery of a brand new car with 200km on it, but who the hell knows how it was driven back? Ie: the breakin procedure.

One of the worst things you can do to a new engine is travel for a long distance at a constant RPM isn't it?!!

I'm supposed to pick it up tomorrow, but now I'm thinking about refusing it.

That's the price you pay for wanting something special that isn't nearby. It costs too much money for the dealership to put it on a semi and haul it, when they can pay someone $10/hour to drive it the distance.

Dude, he had it on the lot before even asking me about it?

How am I supposed to have known it would come from 200km away just because it wasn't there on the lot??? :rolleyes:

I say relax - it's probably just fine.

Cars are meant to be driven, relax it does have a warranty!!!

Tim

i second that. your fine.

It's probably screwed. Is it manual trans? I'll give you $17k (US) for it and you can go buy one with less K's!!

Yea, you're right. 200km is way too many miles to have on a "new" truck.

Definitely a deal breaker for me. :rolleyes:

yeah not something i'd flip out over... although whining a lil might get you some free mats at the least.

All of the "new" vehicles that I have purchased had at least a few miles on them from other people test driving them. No big deal. My frontier had 150 miles on it. The Xterra had around 100.

The fiance's '05 Pathy had 6 miles on it

It's not really about the amount of km's on it...

It's about improper breakin. A sustained RPM for 2 hours is bad for a new engine.

You're supposed to vary RPM and make sure not to bog the engine so that the compression rings seat properly, to reduce oil consumption and blow-by.

So I'm not sure why all you guys are missing the point and focusing on the number of km's on the odometer. :rolleyes:

This is from the Xterra manual:

Avoid driving for long periods at constant
speed, either fast or slow, and do not run the
engine over 4,000 rpm. Do not accelerate at full throttle in any gear. Avoid quick starts. Avoid hard braking as much as possible. Do not tow a trailer for the first 500 miles (800 km). Your engine, axle or other parts could be damaged.

The question is, what does "Avoid driving for long periods at constant speed, either fast or slow" mean? It conveniently does not define a "long period", but it does define the rpms to stay below (4000). Who is going to define what that period is if there are any engine problems? Couldn't 200km be considered a long period? Again, it's not defined in the manual, so this argument cannot be won or lost from what the actual manual states. Every expert here can chime in, but what's going to count in an arbitration meeting?

Thanks a lot MikeX, I appreciate the exerpt from the manual (which obviously I don't have yet).

Some manuals (and people) say not do highway driving for the first xx km's either, which I'm sure was done.

The whole point is, when buying a brand new vehicle, why should I have the lingering question in the back of my mind for the next couple of years and possibly get a poorly broken in engine just because some sales manager wanted to save on a haul?

Just because most of the people that posted on this thread don't seem to care about breakin doesn't mean I shouldn't.

Well I here what you are saying, and I would not blame you if you turned it down. I would get some REAL expert advice on the issue. Good Luck.

Ultimately dude, regardless of what the people around here say, it's your call. My X had 2 miles on it when I got it, so I can't complain. If it makes you that uncomfortable that you are already thinking about it, I'd refuse it. No need to go into a 3-5 year agreement with that over your head.

It's annoying that they didn't tell you about it - but really, they dealer was trying to be NICE here...

I was thrilled in 2000 when my dealer searched around and found EXACTLY the X that I wanted and had it driven in for me from Arkansas.... It was a little bit of a to hop in my brand new truck and see 300 miles on the odo already... and I had the same concerns about break-in... but it's really not a big deal... and in your case it's only 125 miles.

Relax, take your X and IMMEDIATELY get it coated in mud, and thank the dealer for working so hard for you

The first dealer did that to me as well. I signed paperwork for 29 miles and when I got ready to drive off I looked down to find that it had 400 miles on it since they had to bring it in from another dealership. I walked in handed them the keys and took my check back. Don't take it if you don't want the miles on it. I agree, they should tell you ahead of time about the extra miles on it. I am pleased to say that the next dealership gave me a much better deal and I drove out with only 5 miles on the odometer. Walk away if you don't like it...there are other Xterras.

You'll be fine... I picked mine up with 125 miles, mostly salesmen driven miles and doubled it in 2 days. It was probably driven hard then too, but like mentioned it is under warranty.

Enjoy your new X and thank them for putting on those km since you have a long break-in, now that's the part that sucks, before you can fully push the engine.

How do you know it was constant RPMing??? Enjoy and don't worry about it.

Here is a good article http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm on breaking-in a fourstroke engine. The article is mainly about motorcycles, but applies to all fourstroke engines. I break-in my fourstroke motocross bikes this way and don't burn any oil or have blow-by.

I knew that article would be posted eventually. :p

I'm not disputing that logic in there actually (I have motorcycles too -- hence my CBR nickname ). I know that race engines are often broken in on the dyno hard, in increments of increasing RPMS's with cycles of heating and cooling.

But they are not broken in by chugging along for 2 hrs at the same RPM (like you're likely to have on a 2hr highway drive).

Dude. You're never gonna be happy with the truck if you have these concerns early on. If something goes wrong with it in 2 years you'll be thinking "What if this was caused by it not being broken in properly".

Of course, if you've signed your papers and have walked with the car you are probably screwed. Unless Canadian law differs from the US.

Take the damn thing back and get one with less miles (KMs) and quit your bitching about it is my view.

Yeah, I see that article pop-up sooo many times on the motorcycle forums, so I though I'd post it here, as well.

I know what you mean about chugging along at constant speed for 2 hours at break-in. I had that dilema when I picked up my '02 in Ottawa and had to drive it back to Kingston. Luckily, I drove back late at night and didn't irritate too many drivers with my irregular driving.

Honestly, most new cars people buy have miles put on them by people test-driving them...and who knows how they drove on those test drives.

The dealer tried to do you a favor. If you don't want it, then don't take it.

Easy there dude...

I haven't picked it up yet -- supposed to go there later today, so that's why I was anxious for opinions.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's advice...

Even those people that posted early on saying that it was a ridiculous concern when they don't seem to have much knowledge on the subject. :p

You asked for opinions, and that's what we're all supplying you with...our opinions. If some of us don't think it's a big deal, then that's our opinion, which is what you asked for.

And stuff.

I think you've already made up your own mind that the 200KM just isn't gonna cut it. The 4x4 OR in Night Armor is so rare you won't find another one very easily. So if you decide to cancel the deal, you may have to either Wait for one to be ordered, or settle for a lesser color.

When I test drive a car, I sure as hell don't follow the Run In procedure. I wanna see what the thing can do!

If anything, it seems like you have something to bargin on the price with! Maybe they can knock $500 or something to make you happy.

I personally would not take it! I would rip a strip off the dealer.
Then I would walk away.
remember you paid after taxes over 40g's for a New X not test driven.
I would be pissed if they did that.
Not your fault the dealer is cheap now he has to sell it as a Demo haha. Or cut the price down as we all know when you drive the test vehicles you mash that pedal as hard as you can
You have a valid concern HardcoreCBR.

The dealer had to get my SE X (oh, cool, I just realized the spelling of that as I typed) from L.A., and my sales guy went up himself to pick it up and drive it back. So it had about 120 miles (almost 200km) on it when I took delivery. Now it has almost 4,000 miles on it one month later. No problems.

Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Its 200km and you know where they came from. The car would probably get driven harder by the guy who does the dealer prep.

A dealer once tried to sell me an Altima that 1650 miles on it..that was definitely over the limit, especially since I didnt know where those miles came from.

Good luck

Before I had My X, I was driving a Spec V.

When the dealership delivered it, it had 650 Km's on it.

Who knows how those 650Km's were driven??? Not me, but it didn't affect the car at all.

I had absolutely NO problems with it, and it had 72,000 on it when I traded in last month...

I wouldn't be that concerned about it.

Ex2X,

Poor breakin is unlikely to cause the engine to fail outright, or very early on. So it's not like you can tell after 4,000 miles that something is wrong with it.

But longer term, a poorly broken in engine can burn oil, and can have less horse power than one where the compression rings are properly seated, etc.

Yeah I know... I'm not disputing anyone's right to an opinion.

But I doubt some of the people that responded as if my post was idiotic would respond like that in a face-to-face conversation.

All more or less adults on here I think -- and we can post our opinions like adults... especially if the person posting an opinion doesn't have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

So what conclusion did you come to are you getting a different one or that one?

You know, if I didn't have such a good buying experience then I'd definitely not give them any benefit and I'd rip them a new one before refusing it.

But I found my sales guy to be fair and he made things simple and straight-forward as opposed to trying to slip things in there... I admit I went in there well-informed... and I negotiated pretty hard until I was happy with the discount, but I didn't feel like fought tooth and nail for every last cent -- I think it was a fair deal for me and the sales guy... overall the entire experience of buying was positive.

So what I'm going to do instead is tell him I'm not happy with the fact that he didn't call me before driving it here, that I don't know what kind of driving is behind those 200km and give them an opportunity to find me a new one -- I'm not going to take this one though [EDIT: Just made this sentence more clear].

Hell, if there is one far away, then I'd go there myself and drive it back if they let me, otherwise they need to haul it in.

If they try to force it on me -- I'll let them say their piece because I know that their first instinct will be to assure me and close the sale.

But if they don't see with in a few minutes of the song and dance that I'm not going to take it, then I'm gonna rip them a new one.

Maybe two new ones.

Im sure eveything will be fine man. Just remember what most people are telling ya, and don't fork over any money unless your 100% sure that your happy. Its not like its pocket money. Your paying for something that you will own over the next several years (or few for some :p )and if your not happy now, you wont be years from now. IMO, if I was you, then the miles wouldnt bother me. Then again, I got anal because after getting my windows tinted, there was a small spec of dust (barely noticable) that got under the tint. Good luck on your decision man.

Maybe just ask (and who knows what kind of honesty you'll get) about how the guy drove it....do you know he DIDNT break it in for you?

If not or if you think they're just blowing sunshine...rip 'em a new one and all that.

I COMPLETELY sympathize with you on it. I'm just a touch neurotic when it comes to things like this. It wouldn't ever leave me and that would suck. To many benjamins to not get exactly what you want.

Why not just ask to talk with the guy that actually did the driving?

But do it sneakily, like. 'Bet she really flys yeaa?' to which he'll reply. 'Bet your ass it does'. Then you can call off the whole deal!

I still think that it would be fine, plus you're covered by the Warranty for a few years, unless you do an insane number of miles per year. I'd express disapointment at the ODO reading, then explain that you aren't happy about purchasing the car with 200k's on the clock. They aren't gonna lose a sale without at least offering you some kind of incentive. They might throw in a free option, floor mats or somethin you aren't already getting. Or knock off some $$$. Sounds like the dealer went really out of their way to help you out, sending someone 200K's to pick it up. I'm sure they will work with you to make you happy - Without the need to go ripping everyone a new A.Hole.

Here is a question, If you are worried about the engine not being properly broken in can you not get a compression test done at 1000 or 4000 and see where it is at?

Good point. Obviously I don't know much about breaking in a new engine. It's too late for me, but what things must one do/not do to properly break in an engine? Just wondering if anything I did or didn't do will come back to haunt me....?

Just got back from the dealership.

Thanks everyone.

So what happened?

He likes keeping us in suspense!

I can't believe you are concerned about them getting you what you asked for. Cars that come from dealer-to-dealer are pretty much ALWAYS driven there to expedite the process so the customer is happy. I bought my X from my Uncle who lives about 400 miles away. I hopped in my X and drove it home the 400 miles on the highway. I didn't floor it or anything but I couldn't help the "vary speed, RPM, ect". It's a car, in today's day and age if the damn thing breaks because it was driven at a constant speed but not abused then it is a POS to begin with IMO.

Yeah, but if you're paying $25k+ for a brand new car, wouldn't you want a brand new car rather than some punk who de-virginized your baby before you got to?

I wouldn't. I ordered mine through the dealer, so I go pick her up, she better have less than 3 miles on her.

I stil have not heard a logical answer to this statement in the manual. Does anyone know what a "long distance" means to Nissan engine designers? Why can they state a number in the manual for rpms, but not for distance driven, they don't even say a speed to keep below. Inquiring minds want to know.

Still waiting what did you decide?

I was just messing with you guys with not giving an ending to this story...

So -- I got there and the first thing I asked my sales guy was whether it was his manager that told him to go there and pick it up versus having it hauled, and he said yes. So then I explained how I wasn't happy about the situation.

I asked to speak to the manager: the first thing I told the manager is that I was very happy with my sales guy and that it was the best buying experience I've had.

And then I asked the manager why he decided to have it driven instead of hauled, and more importantly, why I wasn't asked?

And of course he gave me the run-around. Fine -- to a point. He kept putting the onus on me about why I didn't tell them beforehand that I wouldn't accept a new car with 200km and in response I asked if I had to let them know I didn't want a car with a dent in the hood beforehand too?

I tried to get him to pinpoint the mileage that is reasonable vs not reasonable? Would a buyer that ordered a new 350Z be happy that without his knowledge, they drove it from 5 hours away and it had 550km on it? Some may not mind, I think a lot of people would be really pissed. He couldn't give me any numbers about what is reasonable. Or at what point he would ask the customer before just making the decision himself?

I asked him whether they followed breakin procedure on the trip and of course he said yes as if he had driven it himself -- but when I asked him what the breakin procedure was, all I got back was a blank expression. He couldn't tell me and neither could the sales guy. Although at one point he called in another guy and asked him (not the guy that drove it) and he gave a robot-like explanation. Fine -- 1 out of 3 ain't bad, but it ain't that good either since they are "car transportation specialists" as the manager kept putting it.

It got pretty ugly for a while. At one point, he had nothing left to say and neither did I -- and we were probably both pissed more about the argument than the actual situation.

Now I'll admit that I made a mistake in letting them prep the car without immediately voicing my concern (it was outside waiting, with plates and everything). The fact is, I didn't even think about the breakin part when I was first told it was driven -- I was a little annoyed that they didn't haul it, but it didn't occur to about breakin until later in the day about the constant RPM thing.

But at this point, after dealer prep etc, the car was registered to me, so if it went back to them, I guess it would be considered a used car and someone was going to take a huge hit.

In the end, we cooled down and started talking again. I realized after the first argument, that since we were talking about them possibly having to sell the truck as used, he was going to fight tooth and nail. Maybe let it go to court or whatever. So -- I might have been a bit picky, but I'm not a mental case.

I got the extended warranty 5 yrs/120,000km, and he agreed to discount it $400 and threw in another 2 free oil changes (for a total of 6 free oil changes).

I had driven in by myself (clearly not having intended to pick it up) so I don't have it yet, and I'm back on Monday morning to drive it home.

Someone I work with recently bought a car and he mentioned that in his agreement, it stipulated the maximum number of km's that would be on the odometer (29 or less, I think it read). I would encourage anyone buying a new car to be sure of a few things:

1. Have the maximum number of km's (or miles) in the agreement -- in the very least, if they have to go somewhere to drive it back, they'll ask you first, in order to change the agreement.
2. Don't put down a large deposit. In fact, don't put down more than $100. They won't let you walk out the door because of it, and it'll be less hassle later if something goes wrong with the deal.
3. Make sure they haven't prepped the car if you have an issue...

Anyway, it's too bad all this happened. I feel bad for my sales guy -- maybe I'll fax a letter to his dealership and Nissan Canada praising him!

The good part about this whole thing is that the OR in Knight Armour is an awesome combo.

Hopefully the bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing goes away quickly!

Mike,

I think it is probably intentionally vague to be honest.

So can someone tell a non-gearhead like me what the proper "break-in procedure" is?

Feel free to do some more research, but in general, breakin consists of the following:

1. Don't lug the engine (lugging means driving at low RPM's in a high gear) -- more a concern for manual transmissions I think. This is bad because it causes a large strain on the engine.

2. Don't drive at a constant speed for a long time. As has been discussed, a "long time" is not clearly defined in most places. But this is the reason that they tell you not to use cruise control during the breakin period.

3. You are supposed to give it hard (not insane) acceleration up to the max RPM's suggested for the breakin period, because this seats the compression rings. I don't think this means to do this at every opportunity, but to not baby the car.

4. Stay below the RPM's levels suggested by the manual. With motorcycles, the instructions seems to be more explicit and gradual: don't go above xx rpm's for the first xx kms... then don't go above .. rpm's for the next xx kms, and so on...

5. [EDIT: added] It is generally practice to do the breakin in cycles of heating and cooling. It has to do with the expansion of components (that are meshing). So -- for a race engine, they would run it hard, then let it cool down completely, then run it hard again, etc until the breakin is complete. For a regular car, driving it during the day and letting it sit at night is probably good enough to get that effect. But this is why it's not a great idea to breakin an engine by driving it 1000kms straight without stopping.

Then there are the recommended oil changes. Just follow the manual. Some people change it more frequently at the beginning, because as the new components "mesh" they create tiny metal filings. If you leave those filings in there too long, there's a greater risk of having them etch hard components, etc.

There are differing views on breakin, and you'll have to research to make up your own mind but in general, at least do what your manual says.

Hope that helps.

It won't break, it's not about breaking the engine.

Some people don't care (or don't know) if their engine is completely out of tune -- those people probably won't notice the ill-effects of improper breakin. They are probably also the ones that add oil only when the oil light comes on. And to complete the circle... if you don't break in the engine adequately, there is a greater risk that you need to add oil in between oil changes as the engine ages because it is burning it.

Mine had 320 miles on it—I'd asked the dealer to locate a very specific model, and I wanted it ASAP. I didn't bitch about the fact that I got the only one in 5 states that week just because some old retired guy drove it 320 miles from Iowa. I'm up over 36K now and no mechanical problems—I'm more worried about the hatch rust, really.

Eh. It's not a Ferrari, you know?

Did you have a point beyond that we don't agree?

Nothing beyond the fact that you're a whiny bitch, no.

Perhaps an Xterra isn't the right vehicle for you.

Dude -- no offence, but sounds like you're the soccer mom. Pop the hood sometime.

Hey - break it up you two

Hardcore - sounds like it's final
- so - congratulations!!!!

I love hearing people from TO say "dude". That cracks me up. No. Really.

BTW, if you weren't afraid to pop the hood on your new X, you wouldn't be on here bitching about some ~200KM driven on your 'pristine' engine. Get a clue, "dude". Drive on and get over it! :rolleyes:

Thanks for the input dude.

Anytime, Mr. "Hardcore". Anytime.

Congrats for picking the OR edition, in any case.

One thing that you could have done was search Nissan's web site and found the rig yourself. A dealer up the road offered to go to Cleveland to pick mine up after I hinted that I had found a Super Black X, I drove up myself, helped the salesman pull the plastic off the hood, and the truck had 6 miles on it. The local dealer wanted $200.00 to pick it up for me, I refused, made the drive and negotiated another $1000.00 off the price and got the exact truck that I wanted. As far as the fact of someone else driving it 200km, I don't believe that it was hurt but I do understand why you would have wanted to drive it yourself. Just be more careful next time, dealers are sharkes to the over excited new car buyer!

Hardcore, thanks for the info -- and thanks for actually posting something useful, which can't be said of everyone here.

One piece of info you left out, or perhaps you thought it was common knowledge, or maybe it was in a previous post and I missed it... What mileage is the typical breakin period? First 1000 miles? First 3000? 5000? Thanks again...

Ex2x,

Looks like 1,200 miles (or 2,000km).

That number is from the 2004 Xterra manual, so you might want to confirm in the 2005 but I doubt it would be significantly different:

CAUTION

During the first 1,200 miles (2,000 km),
follow these recommendations to obtain
maximum engine performance and ensure
the future reliability and economy of
your new vehicle. Failure to follow these
recommendations may result in shortened
engine life and reduced engine
performance.

- Avoid driving for long periods at constant
speed, either fast or slow, and do not run the
engine over 4,000 rpm.
- Do not accelerate at full throttle in any gear.
- Avoid quick starts.
- Avoid hard braking as much as possible.
- Do not tow a trailer for the first 500 miles
(800 km). Your engine, axle or other parts
could be damaged.

I say, refuse the delivery. You are absolutelly right. You do not want that question bugging you for the next few years. I got mine straight from the dealer, while it was light outside. When it became dark, after delivery, I noticed the middle/front console was not working. All the light were gone. They drove the car about 40 miles for the delivery, cause some girl that did not know what the hell she was getting, bought mine an hou before. She only got it cause it was yellow and in the showroom. So, my offroad got delivered from different dealer. The car spent the second night at the dealer. While trying to find a disconnected connector, they scratched my dash and now have to replace 3 panels. Also, the cooling system has air in it, so now they have to flush it also. Normally you have 72 hours to cancel any contract, including the car contract. It will be hard though. I say, do not take delivery and go to a different dealer. Have them haul it. Remember, you are the customer and dont be afraid to walk out. They have to kiss your ass, not you theirs.

First congrats on the new Xterra.

Second if you look at vehicles today although most will say to a certain list for breakin procedure these really aren't for the engine as most people think. The engine is broken in at the factory. The other parts in the car are not broken in such as transmission and differentials. This is what the breakin is for to prevent damage to these parts.

Also I recently went through the same situation with my wifes mazda 6. First the car we ordered was delivered to the wrong dealer after we waited 2-3 months then it was delivered to the wrong dealer. They then drove the car that we ordered from one dealer 100 miles to our dealer. We saw the car had the sport package which we didn't want and found out that it was a required option with side air bags on 04 models. We were upset and they knocked the car down to invoice ($100) and also gave us 2 free oil changes.

I can understand being upset but to tell you the truth if the car does have problems in the future it can be caused from many different things over the life of the car and I doubt 200km would affect it unless he redlined it the entire way.

Oh and I don't know how others have 3 miles the one that I looked at that I took the plastic off of had 7 miles on it.