Posted by: Anonymous
King Coils - 10/03/08 08:52 PM
Why doesn't anybody else run them? They work great!...
King Coils
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 10/03/08 09:00 PM
What... I think my King Coils work fine! ![[Smoking]](graemlins/smokin.gif)
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 10/03/08 09:21 PM
Just out of curiosity, what spring rates are you running?
I'm really tired of the drunken goat handling of the 300 pounders that come in the Calmini kit. Was thinking of upping the spring rates a bit.
I'm really tired of the drunken goat handling of the 300 pounders that come in the Calmini kit. Was thinking of upping the spring rates a bit.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 11/03/08 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffW:
Why doesn't anybody else run them? They work great!...
Why doesn't anybody else run them? They work great!...
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 11/03/08 10:21 PM
No issues with mine. I have a 250lb spring rate.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 12/03/08 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby B.:
Just out of curiosity, what spring rates are you running?
I'm really tired of the drunken goat handling of the 300 pounders that come in the Calmini kit. Was thinking of upping the spring rates a bit.
Just out of curiosity, what spring rates are you running?
I'm really tired of the drunken goat handling of the 300 pounders that come in the Calmini kit. Was thinking of upping the spring rates a bit.
250 pounders will handle worse for such a heavy vehicle.
Swaybars(which I don't have) and good shocks are key.
If you have Sway-Away or Fox your spring rate doesn't mean much...
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra
Re: King Coils - 12/03/08 05:51 AM
What is the total springrate you guys are running?
600lbs, 650 or 700?
600lbs, 650 or 700?
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 01SalsaXterra:
What is the total springrate you guys are running?
600lbs, 650 or 700?
What is the total springrate you guys are running?
600lbs, 650 or 700?
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 05:44 AM
King coils with Fox shocks here.
Posted by: spalind
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffW:
I don't understand what you're asking.
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.[/b]
Quote:
Originally posted by 01SalsaXterra:
[b]What is the total springrate you guys are running?
600lbs, 650 or 700?
[b]What is the total springrate you guys are running?
600lbs, 650 or 700?
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.[/b]
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 08:52 AM
Quote:
600 lbs. is the spring rate Total Chaos reccomends for their LT kit...
Which was why I was asking what people were running on their SASed trucks too.
Quote:
I don't understand what you're asking.
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.
If you are running Dual spring rate coils (2) springs per coilover shock stacked, then you are probably running (2) 300lb coils, totaling 600lbs like the Calmini SAS kit suggested.
I'm looking to run a single coil spring for my coilover swap for simplicity and since I'll be running less travel, so
it will either be 600, 650, or 700 lbs. total spring rate.
So, What is the springrate you used?
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 01SalsaXterra:
And the guy running the SLR long travel said that 650 lbs. wasn't giving enough lift on his, so he was going up to 700 lb springrate coils.
Which was why I was asking what people were running on their SASed trucks too.
I think you misunderstood.
If you are running Dual spring rate coils (2) springs per coilover shock stacked, then you are probably running (2) 300lb coils, totaling 600lbs like the Calmini SAS kit suggested.
I'm looking to run a single coil spring for my coilover swap for simplicity and since I'll be running less travel, so
it will either be 600, 650, or 700 lbs. total spring rate.
So, What is the springrate you used?
Quote:
600 lbs. is the spring rate Total Chaos reccomends for their LT kit...
Which was why I was asking what people were running on their SASed trucks too.
Quote:
I don't understand what you're asking.
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.
There is no "600" or anything close to it in the spring rates.
If you are running Dual spring rate coils (2) springs per coilover shock stacked, then you are probably running (2) 300lb coils, totaling 600lbs like the Calmini SAS kit suggested.
I'm looking to run a single coil spring for my coilover swap for simplicity and since I'll be running less travel, so
it will either be 600, 650, or 700 lbs. total spring rate.
So, What is the springrate you used?
I would certainly expect the IFS system to run a much higher spring rate because the fulcrum of the control arms is so close. On a straight axle, there isn't so much leverage on the springs, making the spring rates much lower.
I believe mine has a 300 and a 250 on each shock. The effective spring rate is probably about 270. I'd be better off with 2 300's IMO.
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 12:38 PM
Quote:
That's what I'm trying to explain. The spring rates do not add.
I would certainly expect the IFS system to run a much higher spring rate because the fulcrum of the control arms is so close. On a straight axle, there isn't so much leverage on the springs, making the spring rates much lower.
I believe mine has a 300 and a 250 on each shock. The effective spring rate is probably about 270. I'd be better off with 2 300's IMO.
I would certainly expect the IFS system to run a much higher spring rate because the fulcrum of the control arms is so close. On a straight axle, there isn't so much leverage on the springs, making the spring rates much lower.
I believe mine has a 300 and a 250 on each shock. The effective spring rate is probably about 270. I'd be better off with 2 300's IMO.
Does that mean if I went with dual rate springs I'd need two shorter springs between 550-700 lbs each?
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 01SalsaXterra:
Ok, that makes sense.
Does that mean if I went with dual rate springs I'd need two shorter springs between 550-700 lbs each?
Quote:
That's what I'm trying to explain. The spring rates do not add.
I would certainly expect the IFS system to run a much higher spring rate because the fulcrum of the control arms is so close. On a straight axle, there isn't so much leverage on the springs, making the spring rates much lower.
I believe mine has a 300 and a 250 on each shock. The effective spring rate is probably about 270. I'd be better off with 2 300's IMO.
I would certainly expect the IFS system to run a much higher spring rate because the fulcrum of the control arms is so close. On a straight axle, there isn't so much leverage on the springs, making the spring rates much lower.
I believe mine has a 300 and a 250 on each shock. The effective spring rate is probably about 270. I'd be better off with 2 300's IMO.
Does that mean if I went with dual rate springs I'd need two shorter springs between 550-700 lbs each?
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 12:51 PM
Quote:
You probably won't need dual spring rates for IFS. The reason people use them for SASed rigs is because having a higher spring rate on the upper spring gives a little better ride height adjustment range. An IFS setup (like TC) should be about right if you follow mfg's recommendations.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 06:58 PM
The spring rate= (AxB)/(A+B). So (250x300)/(250+300)=137lbs/inch of shock travel.
Each coil is rated at so many lbs per inch. So when they get stacked, both compress less to make an inch of travel on the shock.
If they both compressed an inch the shock would travel two inches.
Each coil is rated at so many lbs per inch. So when they get stacked, both compress less to make an inch of travel on the shock.
If they both compressed an inch the shock would travel two inches.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 13/03/08 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AK9849CY:
The spring rate= (AxB)/(A+B). So (250x300)/(250+300)=137lbs/inch of shock travel.
Each coil is rated at so many lbs per inch. So when they get stacked, both compress less to make an inch of travel on the shock.
If they both compressed an inch the shock would travel two inches.
The spring rate= (AxB)/(A+B). So (250x300)/(250+300)=137lbs/inch of shock travel.
Each coil is rated at so many lbs per inch. So when they get stacked, both compress less to make an inch of travel on the shock.
If they both compressed an inch the shock would travel two inches.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 14/03/08 04:04 AM
Here are a few links....
This is from the Poison Spyder Customs site:
For figuring spring rate with two coil springs- (dual rate setup)
(spring rate 1 x spring rate 2) / (spring rate 1 + spring rate 2)
Example for calculating the overall spring rate in a dual rate (two coil) setup:
Spring 1 = 250 lb coil
Spring 2= 300 lb coil
rate= (spring rate 1 x spring rate 2) / (spring rate 1 + spring rate 2)
rate= (250 x 300) / (250 + 300)
rate= 75,000 / 550
rate= 136.36 lbs
Your actual spring rate with a 250 lb coil and 300 lb coil is approximately 136 lbs; remember that the force on the coil is divided between the coils which is why the spring rate is a lower number than the actual individual coil rate.
--------------------------------------------
FOA's calculator-----> Clicky
This one is kinda fun to play with.
.
.
---------------------------
Rancho's resource-----> CLICKY
.
.
.
This is from the Poison Spyder Customs site:
For figuring spring rate with two coil springs- (dual rate setup)
(spring rate 1 x spring rate 2) / (spring rate 1 + spring rate 2)
Example for calculating the overall spring rate in a dual rate (two coil) setup:
Spring 1 = 250 lb coil
Spring 2= 300 lb coil
rate= (spring rate 1 x spring rate 2) / (spring rate 1 + spring rate 2)
rate= (250 x 300) / (250 + 300)
rate= 75,000 / 550
rate= 136.36 lbs
Your actual spring rate with a 250 lb coil and 300 lb coil is approximately 136 lbs; remember that the force on the coil is divided between the coils which is why the spring rate is a lower number than the actual individual coil rate.
--------------------------------------------
FOA's calculator-----> Clicky
This one is kinda fun to play with.
.
.
---------------------------
Rancho's resource-----> CLICKY
.
.
.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 14/03/08 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AK9849CY:
.....Your actual spring rate with a 250 lb coil and 300 lb coil is approximately 136 lbs; remember that the force on the coil is divided between the coils which is why the spring rate is a lower number than the actual individual coil rate....
.....Your actual spring rate with a 250 lb coil and 300 lb coil is approximately 136 lbs; remember that the force on the coil is divided between the coils which is why the spring rate is a lower number than the actual individual coil rate....
If I have 2 300# springs end to end, they will compress equally. So if I apply 600# to one, will they both press 1" each or 2" each?
Top <==600 600==> <==600 600==> axle
It seems to make sense that BOTH must compress 2 inches. I'm just having trouble believing it!
Each spring sees the full force, but they share the travel. Crazy thought....
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 15/03/08 11:29 AM
It takes a given amount of force to hold up your X. It doesn't matter which spring you use to do it, they will all be setting there holding up so many pounds. With 137 lb springs it will take longer for the spring to ramp up to that given value. Thus the reason coil-overs travel so much better. The one calculator above is kinda neat being a person can choose how much % of spring one wants to use at static height. The hard part is finding out how much the truck weighs minus the axles, tires, etc. (unsprung weight).
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 15/03/08 11:57 AM
Yeah, when I really do the math, I guess 1100 lb will compress the 12", 250# by 4.4" and the 10", 300# by 3.7". So I'm using ~8.1" out of 13-14" (22-8or9) of total compression. That's puts me right at ~5" of my 10" of travel.
Funny to think the thread started out talking about 700# spring rates and ended at 140....
Funny to think the thread started out talking about 700# spring rates and ended at 140....
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 15/03/08 12:01 PM
So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 15/03/08 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby B.:
So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 16/03/08 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby B.:
So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 16/03/08 02:41 PM
37" off-road tires (ballons) on 15" rims, 8" of suspension lift and several hundred pounds of Shrockworks steel have more to do with affecting handling than the absence of an anti-sway bar.
I wouldn't say it handles poorly, however, you must be much more attentive because emergency avoidance is drastically affected.
I wouldn't say it handles poorly, however, you must be much more attentive because emergency avoidance is drastically affected.
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 18/03/08 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by John Cocktosen:
You're barking up the wrong tree there man. The key phrase in your statement is "no sway bars" Have you ever driven ANY vehicle without a front sway bar? It doesn't matter what the spring rate is, it's gonna handle like shit on the highway without a front sway bar...[/b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby B.:
[b]So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
[b]So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
Posted by: 01SalsaXterra
Re: King Coils - 18/03/08 06:32 AM
Quote:
My rig is fine without front or rear sway bars. For the record I am running 600 lbs 16 inch springs on my LT setup.
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
Posted by: Anonymous
Re: King Coils - 18/03/08 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by John Cocktosen:
You're barking up the wrong tree there man. The key phrase in your statement is "no sway bars" Have you ever driven ANY vehicle without a front sway bar? It doesn't matter what the spring rate is, it's gonna handle like shit on the highway without a front sway bar...[/b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby B.:
[b]So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
[b]So you guys are all pretty much running approx. 300 pound spring rates, or thereabouts? No ones bumped them up a bit?
We've got the Fox coilovers with 300 lb. springs as they come from Calmini and while it flexes and droops out fine, it really rides like shit on the highway. I mean, like we're compensating with the turnsignals for the handling characteristics. No sway bars, and the steering needs a good going through after being wheeled for the past 1.5 years or so.
We did have one shock blow its guts out and had that rebuilt. Limiting straps were added to keep things from getting damaged from overextension. It was better for a while, but now it's back to its old ways.
This conversation now has me thinking that there might be an issue with the shocks/valving themselves.
I'm not talking about it not handling like a car. I'm talking about wallowing body roll. Was better, now getting worse. Was just checking to see what spring rates others are running. Am going to be going through the steering shortly, but am now more of the mindset that there is an issue with one or both shocks.