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#167681 - 22/06/07 02:08 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
I think some are trying too hard to explain away the prison statistics. The statistics are what they are.

The notion that more blacks are in jail because of a racist or unequal justice system is also bullshit. The majority of blacks in prison come from urban areas where more likely than not, they were sent to jail by a jury consisting primarily of minorities.

New York City holds the highest population of black people than any other city in the world. Most juries in NYC are made up of blacks and minorities. They consistently send black criminal defendants to jail.

Regarding statements made about Muslims, I hope that most of them are not hard core Islamic radicals. The figures regarding the attitudes of Muslims are however very alarming.

The Pew Center recently did a study about American Muslims and many of the findings are disturbing. 25% of all American Muslims under the age of 30 think suicide bombings are justifiable. 13% of all American Muslims of all ages think suicide bombings are justifiable to avenge Islam.

29% of all American Muslims have a favorable opinion of Al Qeada. Only 40% of American Muslims believe Arabs carried out the 9-11 attacks. The hard core Islamist feelings seem to be worse among native born black American Muslims and converts.

Pew Reasearch Center calls American Muslims "mainstream". Can 25% of all young Muslims believing in suicide bombings as justifiable be mainstream? The study is linked below.....

http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf

Muslim terrorists also don't become terrorists because they grow up in a household of radical Islamists. Yes, something is influencing them, but in many instances here in America it is not their parents or family. None of the recent Fort Dix Islamic terrorist suspects came from families who were very religious or even remotely Islamist.

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#167682 - 22/06/07 02:59 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
XOC Offline
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Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 17102
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by pnwbeers:
Quote:
Originally posted by XOC:
[b]
This means that Blacks are more violent and or unlawful per capita than other race. Take the feelings out of the arguement and the facts show what is going on.
You're being far too simplistic. There are lots of factors here besides race that you're simply ignoring - income, family situation, etc. I frankly find it pretty shocking when people pull these kind of stats and conclude that one race or another is more prone to violence, lawbreaking, etc.

That's just ignorance, plain and simple. No offense intended.[/b]
Care to explain? That is like saying that because Jonny was molested as a child that it is ok that he is a sexual preditor today. Wrong is wrong no matter how you get there.

At what point did we start to excuse or explain away bad behavour to make ourselves feel better?

Are you saying that it is the social enviroment and not personal responsibility that is the cause of the large number of blacks that are in prison?

Is it the negative behavour encouraged by rap music?

For the poor Blacks, is it that they have spent all their lives on welfare and after being taken care of by the governmet and thus entitled to everything they want?

What excuse do you want to use?

At what point do you come to the conclusion that blacks for whatever reason are more prone to deviant behaviour than other races here in the US.
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#167683 - 22/06/07 03:22 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by XOC:
Quote:
Originally posted by pnwbeers:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by XOC:
[b]
This means that Blacks are more violent and or unlawful per capita than other race. Take the feelings out of the arguement and the facts show what is going on.
You're being far too simplistic. There are lots of factors here besides race that you're simply ignoring - income, family situation, etc. I frankly find it pretty shocking when people pull these kind of stats and conclude that one race or another is more prone to violence, lawbreaking, etc.

That's just ignorance, plain and simple. No offense intended.[/b]
Care to explain? That is like saying that because Jonny was molested as a child that it is ok that he is a sexual preditor today. Wrong is wrong no matter how you get there.

At what point did we start to excuse or explain away bad behavour to make ourselves feel better?

Are you saying that it is the social enviroment and not personal responsibility that is the cause of the large number of blacks that are in prison?

Is it the negative behavour encouraged by rap music?

For the poor Blacks, is it that they have spent all their lives on welfare and after being taken care of by the governmet and thus entitled to everything they want?

What excuse do you want to use?

At what point do you come to the conclusion that blacks for whatever reason are more prone to deviant behaviour than other races here in the US.[/b]
[Freak]

Huh? Go back and look at my post again. I'm not making excuses, saying personal responsibility isn't important, blah, blah, blah. All I'm saying is that you can't simply point to the fact that there are a higher percentage of blacks in prison than whites and conclude that blacks are more prone to criminal activity. That's an asinine attempt at statistical analysis because it assumes that all other involved factors are equal, when they sure as hell aren't.

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#167684 - 22/06/07 04:20 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
DocNo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/01
Posts: 3150
Loc: NoVA
Quote:
Originally posted by pnwbeers:
All I'm saying is that you can't simply point to the fact that there are a higher percentage of blacks in prison than whites and conclude that blacks are more prone to criminal activity. That's an asinine attempt at statistical analysis because it assumes that all other involved factors are equal, when they sure as hell aren't.
I don't think race has anything to do with it beyond the social grouping and "culture" aspects.

A white person beats the crap out of a black person and there are riots.

A black person beats the crap out of another black person and there is silence.

There is something seriously fucked up with that - and it's also the core problem as I see it.

When you see "black leaders" coming out against violence against blacks, no matter the color of the perpetrator, then we might see progress. Until then, it will remain a "black problem".
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#167685 - 22/06/07 05:31 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
TJ Offline
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Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
This thread is showing a microcosm of society as a whole.

We have the normal generalizations, and the normal basis for those generalizations.

The people who live in areas where the blacks were like everyone else, think blacks are like everyone else..

...the people who live where the blacks are dangerous, think blacks are dangerous.

No surprises really...one is dealing with fresh water fish, one is dealing with salt water fish.

Each knows what a damn fish is, and assumes the other side is idiotic.

Once each has formed a world view...it is enforced by each incident that supports the view, and events or incident that do not support the view are considered to be salient examples/exceptions, rather than evidence that the view is incorrect.

That too is normal...we generalize, and assume that rules apply outside of immediate experience...otherwise, we'd walk into each restaurant, and not be sure how to order, etc...we assume its like the other restaurants.

If we walk into a restaurant, and there's no menus, the waiter just stares at you...you'd think, that's weird, NOT that you were wrong all along how restaurants work.

OK - So that's how humans process their world...so far, so good.

Fish...if we assume they're all the same, but they're not...say we are talking to a fellow fisherman, and he swears there's giant fish that eat people, called sharks...LOTS of them.

Now, you KNOW there's no such thing, you have seen every damn fish, and none of them are that big, or could eat someone, not even a big 'ol Muskie.

Now, lets say that a bunch of other people also mention these sharks....

And lets say that the sharks are a touchy subject, because the people who lost kids to them, etc...are really tired of the people like you telling them there are no sharks...

And you find its "politically incorrect" to talk about there being no sharks...people are alwayys pissed at you if you do.

Well, one day, you're in an area that you normally are not in...and you see these giant fish with a large fins, and say, what the hell, there IS such a thing...I saw it...

Well, OK, maybe there are SOME sharks...but, I'm sure all the OTHER fish stories are BS.

laugh

Lets say a (Statistically) that a shark is a black guy who works hard, has a wife and kids, pays his taxes and doesn't cause any trouble.

laugh

You will NEVER give up your world view, any more than you'll think the place without menues is a "normal" restaurant.

So - that's why there's prejudice...because we know what we know, based upon our experiences.

And that's why black people in economically disadvantaged areas are there...they think whites are the enemy...the cops are the enemy, society's the enemy.

How can you grow up thinking working hard and doing your homework will get you anywhere, when the gangs beat you up if you don't join, and the only successful role models are pimps and drug dealers in big cars and gold teeth?

Its like Italians who try to imply they're in the Mafia....especially since Sopranos came out....being a thug "who gets away with it" is a status symbol...they beat the system.

Its human nature...the blacks in the ghettos are just as prejudiced as the whites, for the same reasons...that's what their experiences have taught them.

Those blacks will never change their mind, no more than their white counterparts will.

So - BOTH sides will be right, because of being wrong.

laugh
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#167686 - 22/06/07 07:29 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
Mosi Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 682
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:
Originally posted by TJ:
This thread is showing a microcosm of society as a whole.

We have the normal generalizations, and the normal basis for those generalizations.

The people who live in areas where the blacks were like everyone else, think blacks are like everyone else..

...the people who live where the blacks are dangerous, think blacks are dangerous.

No surprises really...one is dealing with fresh water fish, one is dealing with salt water fish.

Each knows what a damn fish is, and assumes the other side is idiotic.

Once each has formed a world view...it is enforced by each incident that supports the view, and events or incident that do not support the view are considered to be salient examples/exceptions, rather than evidence that the view is incorrect.

That too is normal...we generalize, and assume that rules apply outside of immediate experience...otherwise, we'd walk into each restaurant, and not be sure how to order, etc...we assume its like the other restaurants.

If we walk into a restaurant, and there's no menus, the waiter just stares at you...you'd think, that's weird, NOT that you were wrong all along how restaurants work.

OK - So that's how humans process their world...so far, so good.

Fish...if we assume they're all the same, but they're not...say we are talking to a fellow fisherman, and he swears there's giant fish that eat people, called sharks...LOTS of them.

Now, you KNOW there's no such thing, you have seen every damn fish, and none of them are that big, or could eat someone, not even a big 'ol Muskie.

Now, lets say that a bunch of other people also mention these sharks....

And lets say that the sharks are a touchy subject, because the people who lost kids to them, etc...are really tired of the people like you telling them there are no sharks...

And you find its "politically incorrect" to talk about there being no sharks...people are alwayys pissed at you if you do.

Well, one day, you're in an area that you normally are not in...and you see these giant fish with a large fins, and say, what the hell, there IS such a thing...I saw it...

Well, OK, maybe there are SOME sharks...but, I'm sure all the OTHER fish stories are BS.

laugh

Lets say a (Statistically) that a shark is a black guy who works hard, has a wife and kids, pays his taxes and doesn't cause any trouble.

laugh

You will NEVER give up your world view, any more than you'll think the plac witout menues is a "normal" restaurant.

So - that's why there's prejudice...because we know what we know, based upon our experiences.

And that's why black people in economically disadvantaged areas are there...they think whites are the enemy...the cops are the enemy, society's the enemy.

How can you grow up thinking working hard and doing your homework will get you anywhere, when the gangs beat you up if you don't join, and the only successful role models are pimps and drug dealers in big cars and gold teeth?

Its like Italians who try to imply they're in the Mafia....especially since Sopranos came out....being a thug "who gets away with it" is a status symbol...they beat the system.

Its human nature...the blacks in the ghettos are just as prejudiced as the whites, for the same reasons...that's what their experiences have taught them.

Those blacks will never change their mind, nor more than their white counterparts will.

So - BOTH sides will be right, because of being wrong.

laugh
Dude... I totally just read that in my head with Chef's dad narrating that... could be the be the beers talking.

Oh and that will be about uhhhh three fiddy... laugh
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#167687 - 22/06/07 07:39 PM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
NuDan Offline
Member

Registered: 19/08/01
Posts: 500
Loc: Not Here
87% of all statistics are made up on the spot...I mean come on, 62% of the people know THAT! [Smoking]
_________________________
There are 10 types of people in the world...those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#167688 - 25/06/07 08:09 AM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
Anonymous
Unregistered


In my opinion, skin color makes zero difference. It's the person that you are that does.

I grew up in a neighborhood that went from being predominantly low-middle class to below the national poverty line in less than seven years. I learned at that point that some families promoted an attitude of anger and hatred, while others felt entitled to everything that the world had to offer, without working for it.

As a white guy, I know that I've sometimes had an easier time of it than someone from my old neighborhood who had black skin, but I also know that it depends more on what you want to do with your life than the people around you. I know this because one of my closest friends (who is black) from that neighborhood went on do well in school, went to a very good school and, last I heard, was doing well for himself.

So, to the people who would apply a blanket statement to a race, I say that you - by yourselves - lessen all of us as you would state that a minority of a race degrades the whole.

As someone posted early, being an asshole doesn't require a certain skin color.

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#167689 - 25/06/07 11:26 AM Re: And black people wonder why people look down upon them
Anonymous
Unregistered


This isn't the first time. Something similar happened in 1991 in NYC . . .

Clicky

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