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#171029 - 09/04/07 01:06 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Samueul Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 4114
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. USA
Quote:
Originally posted by pnwbeers:
Technically you can buy booze at 18 if you're in the military, correct?
Not unless you're in another country with different laws, and US laws still in many cases supersede for the Soldier. I.E., Try smoking pot in Amsterdam while actively serving etc.

Most war time situations are now "Alcohol Free' too.

But when you get back, man... lookout. The booze is a flowing.
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#171030 - 09/04/07 01:07 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Hemp doesn't come from the same plant as marijuana.

The hemp plant is a similar type plant in the same family of plants, but they are different. You can't get high from hemp no matter how much you smoke of it.

I support the commercial use of hemp. It is a great renewable plant and can be used for many purposes.

I suspect many of the stoner and hippy types, don't even know what they are talking about.

However, I do not support the legalization of pot under any circumstances. It is not a harmless and benign drug as it is often portrayed in popular culture.

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#171031 - 09/04/07 01:11 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

I support the commercial use of hemp. It is a great renewable plant and can be used for many purposes.

Yup, my Tilley hat is made with hemp.

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#171032 - 09/04/07 01:13 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
However, I do not support the legalization of pot under any circumstances. It is not a harmless and benign drug as it is often portrayed in popular culture.
Nor is alcohol. Should it be illegal too?

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#171033 - 09/04/07 02:30 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Alcohol is a depressant and puts a lot more people in rehab than pot ever did.

Then comes the 'pot is a gateway drug' argument.

I don't think so. I don't believe the single act of smoking pot is going to lead to use of other drugs. They way they do those surveys is this: They ask pot smokers if they've tried other drugs. When they say yes, they become a statistic that says pot smoking leads to usage of other drugs. Whether or not pot was around, these same people would have experimented.

Pot as a dangerous drug....NYMM, what's your fact basis on this one? I contend it's no more dangerous than alcohol. I've seen alcohol destroy lives and families. I've seen it too with pot, though to a far lesser degree. You can become physically addicted to alcohol. Addiction to pot is psycological, though I do agree you can get addicted to being high.

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#171034 - 09/04/07 02:41 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Andy, I was also formulating a response for NYMM.

Other than the possible risks associated with obtaining your smoke, the act of smoking period is not good for the lungs and could cause an increase in lung cancer. Nobody will ever know for sure because it is against the law to smoke for science unless you are already dying and in a State that allows for the use by the terminally ill.

I can't imagine the Government having to admit they were wrong and therefore they will fight tooth and nail to keep the status quo. It won't be Federally wise, legal ever. Too much money at stake.

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#171035 - 09/04/07 05:20 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Samueul Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 4114
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. USA
I know absolutely no one that has gone to rehab, had a major life issue, or killed anyone because of pot. It's the least dangerous substance we can get our hands on. PERIOD.

I know quite a few people whose lives have been completely ruined by Alcohol, Cocaine, etc. and no, pot was never a "gateway" drug or even a drug they used, as it is very weak compared to the effects of alcohol or the "harder" drugs.

Keeping it illegal is fine by me, but Cigarettes, alcohol, and model airplane glue etc. should all also be made illegal.
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#171036 - 09/04/07 05:34 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Stonecoldchavez Offline
Member

Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 1363
Loc: New Jersey
Quote:
Originally posted by Xterra Kid 2003:
What do you all think about marijuana being illegal in the US. I think its a waste of time and money to keep it off the streets. Its impossible to OD on THC and I dont remember the last time anyone sparked a joint and beat the hell out of their wives despite what "Reefer Madness" told you. I know some places are putting in sensible laws regarding possesion but I believe there should be a national decriminalization. I think an age restriction should be in place as with booze or cigs 18 or 21.
Anyone else have any thoughts about it? [Smoking] (yeah the little guy is hittin a joint)
Problem isn't you sitting in your home getting high on the couch. The problem is when you are high as nuts and want to take a run to 7-11 and run into some innocent family.

That is why it will never be legal. People will not a) use it responsibly, and b) be responsible enough not to drive or use heavy a machinery, etc.

And yes, I understand about the abuses of alcohol.

The answer is none of us know what the effects of legalized pot would be. Other than a cash cow for the government to waste more money on pork projects.

Stone
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#171037 - 09/04/07 05:47 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Xtoolbox Offline
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Registered: 23/08/00
Posts: 1668
Loc: Torrance, CA
Considering there are over twenty million Americans who smoke pot occasionally its silly it’s illegal.

Been cultivated around the world for thousands of years without problems. The native American Indians used it for lots of proposes and it grew wildly in places

Considering its a natural substance I can't see why it should be illegal? maybe we should ban Potatoes because they can make you fat.



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#171038 - 09/04/07 05:52 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


AZ was the first state to legalize it, only to be in direct conflict w/ federal law.. [Freak]

Here\'s the story.. [Smoking]

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#171039 - 09/04/07 07:37 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
flintstrike Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally posted by pnwbeers:
That's what I always come back to with this argument - is there any meaningful distinction between marijuana and alcohol? I sure don't see one.

Maybe somebody can come up with something I haven't heard before.
I enjoy a glass of wine with dinner because it pairs well with steak. I enjoy having a beer when I barebeque because I like the way it tastes.

I would say the majority of alcohol that is consumed is for purposes other than to alter ones state of conscious.

Can you tell me if anyone has ever smoked a joint with dinner because "they like the aroma"? Is there any reason to smoke pot other than to get high?

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#171040 - 09/04/07 08:10 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Roxy's X Offline
Member

Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 121
Loc: Portland, OR
The argument that pot is like alcohol stops at the point of being able to find out how much someone has in their system. If you do have someone driving under the influence of alcohol with either the breathalyzer or blood test they can get a blood alcohol level. Since THC stays in your system a lot longer, there would be no way for them to test what your level is at the point you were contacted.

Lawyers would fight that the person had not smoked anything in days, that it was still in there system but they were not impaired.

I don't want to share the roads any more then we already do with people who are impaired from this. The DUI laws are already not enforced enough. There is no way that they will be able to make a drastic enough change to make people stop driving impaired.

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#171041 - 09/04/07 09:29 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


There are good arguments for and against legalizing pot in the U.S.

Some people guarantee you that alcohol causes more social problems than smoking marijuana.

Others will guarantee that smoking pot will lead to hard drug use.

But in the end, the only guarantee in regards to marijuana is that it will never get any better than B.C. Bud, period. [Smoking]

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#171042 - 09/04/07 09:43 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Paul H Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/01
Posts: 4757
Loc: Mt. Zion, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by Roxy's X:
The argument that pot is like alcohol stops at the point of being able to find out how much someone has in their system. If you do have someone driving under the influence of alcohol with either the breathalyzer or blood test they can get a blood alcohol level. Since THC stays in your system a lot longer, there would be no way for them to test what your level is at the point you were contacted.

Lawyers would fight that the person had not smoked anything in days, that it was still in there system but they were not impaired.

I don't want to share the roads any more then we already do with people who are impaired from this. The DUI laws are already not enforced enough. There is no way that they will be able to make a drastic enough change to make people stop driving impaired.
In Illinois you do not have to show the amount just that it was in their system. This can be done with a urine test. Since it can be there for up to 30 days man duis would soar.
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#171043 - 09/04/07 10:21 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


As an Ex-marijuana abuser, I have to say that I would still support the legalization of the "drug". I say legalize and put growing restrictions on it, then tax the ever living crap out of it, much like alcohol and tobacco.

It is a personal choice to smoke and as a ex-user I have to say it did not lead me to experiment with other types of "harder" drugs.

Also, and many may look down on this, I have driven while high and have never been involved in an accident and have never been pulled over. Many times I have driven on every type of road for long hours high. Stupid, yes. Would I do it again? No.

I say, why not?

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#171044 - 09/04/07 10:43 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Grow operations in BC are the biggest single drain on the tax payers dollar when it comes to dragging people through the legal system.

I live in a new sub division of homes with an average value of 500-600k, on my street alone there has been 3 grow op's busted in the past 3 years. Each grow takes 90 hours of investigation before a search warrant can be effected. the average size of the grow op's were 700 plants yielding about $64.000 per harvest which is around every 73 days.

First time offence punishment is 12 months house arrest with allowance to attend work and your kid's school functions etc. No hard jail time has been imposed for repeat offenders.

The majority of the control of the Grow op's are Asian gang's and Hell's Angels. we have had several violent grow-rip off's with gun battles in BC.

IMHO smoking it is no worse than drinking, no one can tell me otherwise. I see the problem with the prohibition and the illegal activity it sparks.

90% of all pot grown in BC is going south, the payment is seldom cash but Cocaine and hand guns.
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#171045 - 09/04/07 10:45 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
I agree that when people compare marijuana to alcohol it is completely ridiculous and absurd. (For the most part, it is usually pot stoners who make such comparisons. Often as an argument to validate their pot usage).

I also find it absurd when pot stoners claim that marijuana is a natural substance and therefore it is harmless. If these stoners feel that everything "natural" is fine and harmless, let them go into the woods near their house and eat all the mushrooms and berries they find growing "naturally". Natural does not mean harmless... unless, of course, your brain is fried from smoking too much "nature".

Pot is a harmful substance. Maybe not in the short term, but long term use has many lasting and harmful effects on the body and the mind.

Does anyone really think that every major corporation does drug testing for new employees for the sole reason that pot is a controlled substance? Of course not. No employer wants a pothead working for their company. For the most part they are idiots. They become idiots because of their pot usage.

Long-term pot use completely destroys an individual's ambition. It makes most individuals anti-social. There is a reason why society has the term "burnout" to describe frequent pot users.

Every single one of us knows a frequent pot user and we all know that they will never reach their full potential in life because of their pot usage. Many of them have completely stunted their entire development because of their pot usage.

The public has been brainwashed by popular culture into thinking that pot usage is something that is basically benign. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that ... it is most definitely what is called a "gateway drug" and it is very harmful to the individual human psyche.

You would be extremely hard pressed to find any crack addict or heroin addict who told you they became curious and attracted to their initial narcotic usage because a beer or a glass of wine tasted really good.

What sometimes amazes me the most is the fact that many anti-cigarette smoking people are often pro-pot smoking people. Pot has many of the same harmful effects as cigarette smoking and many studies actually claim it is just as bad or far more hazardous for the body than cigarette smoking. Yet, these people prefer to disregard the harmful smoking effects of pot because pot gets you high... and basically makes you stupid. Maybe that is why some egregious and nefarious politicians support legal marijuana. A stupid and stoned population would be more malleable and easier to control.

Marijuana is a Schedule I drug.

The United States is also not the only country in the world that has outlawed marijuana usage. In fact most countries on earth have outlawed marijuana.

Society is already on a dangerous slippery slope regarding drug use. We have an extremely large percentage of the population on prescription drugs of one sort of another. Many for psychological and anti-depressant reasons. A large percentage of children in this country are dangerously on prescription medication including all sorts of stimulants and anti-depressants commonly used to treat things like attention-deficit and hyperactivity disorders. Much of it because we are becoming a lazy society and would rather medicate both adults and children.... instead of dealing with life itself.

This country needs less drugs, not more drugs. Both legal and illegal. (Less laziness through convenience would go a long a long way too).

Legalizing pot would be very dangerous to society. They say a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Legalizing pot would waste an awful lot of minds.

I know some will say they smoke pot or have a friend who smokes pot and is doing fine in life. That is the exception, not the rule. There are always exceptions.

Many people claim they support legalizing pot across the board in society. Have they really thought out their positions? Have their opinions been clouded by their own pot smoke induced brains?

Will they support such permissiveness when that means their own adult children can legally smoke pot right in front of them? Can a society who claims to care about future generations be willing to squander that future on such permissiveness as allowing the ambitions of it's children to be sucked away through copious amounts of EZ-Wider rolling paper and bong hits?

Genetics provides enough idiots in society. We don't need to be creating future generations of more unambitious and lazy idiots by legalizing pot.

If you are a socialist or some other type of authoritarian, then the prospect of creating more idiotic drones within society may be an attractive prospect. It may even be attractive to the anarchists.

A democratic republic cannot survive by allowing its population to slide into narcotic induced stupors and whatever permanent damage that may imply on such population.

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#171046 - 10/04/07 06:05 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Whoa! I feel like I just got through a mind storm of 80's anti-drug commercials.

NYMM - you usually have facts to back up your argument, this time it looks as though you toting the Government line and really don't know anyone of which you're basing your information off of first hand.

BTW - Not all drug addicts turn into burnouts, just those that are already as you put it, Genetically disposed to being such. wink

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#171047 - 10/04/07 07:23 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Conundrum:

NYMM - you usually have facts to back up your argument, this time it looks as though you toting the Government line and really don't know anyone of which you're basing your information off of first hand.

BTW - Not all drug addicts turn into burnouts, just those that are already as you put it, Genetically disposed to being such. wink
Come on Conundrum. You don't really believe that garbage you just wrote, do you?

If I sound like a public service commercial it is because it is the truth. Everything you have heard about narcotics usage is basically the truth.

I also never mentioned anything about people being "genetically disposed" to marijuana or any other narcotic substances. I'm not sure how you ascribed that to anything I have said so far on this topic.

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#171048 - 10/04/07 07:51 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Not trying to pick on you NYMM, but you just don't know what you're talking about when you're just repeating everything that has ever been said negatively about people who make their own decisions in life, I.e. being responsible adults and contributing to society.

My Genetic remark was in reference to "Genetics provides enough idiots in society. We don't need to be creating future generations of more unambitious and lazy idiots by legalizing pot."

I've seen people abuse drugs and have some serious issues, but they would have been that way with anything they could get their hands onto. I suppose you are right in the sense that if you're predisposed to that path, it doesn't matter if you break the law to get there.

If you're ever in Phoenix, I'll buy you a beer if it is still legal. :p

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#171049 - 10/04/07 08:04 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Rockaholic Offline
Member

Registered: 18/02/02
Posts: 1632
Loc: Reading, MA
Some of the arguments used in saying pot should not be legalized can be easily used on other things. Others are easily rebutted.

Stonecold posted that it poses a problem when not used resposnisbly.

Then I guess we should make the following, which have all been used irresponsibly at least once over the past 20 years, illegal:
Cars, Offroad vehicles, Motorcycles, Dirt bikes, Bicycles, Guns, Alcohol, spraypaint, hammers, wrenches, rope, cameras (video and still), airplanes, fire...I can go on for days...

Cars was a first good choice, because MGJ posted how a 325 year old woman allowed a 15 year old boy (her boyfriend) to drive her car while under the influence of a drug. There is a lot of irresponsibility in that entire scenario. That car was definately being used irresponsibly, thus all cars should be banned, if we follow the logic of the argument.

Someone posted Pot is a drug, it's illegal and should stay that way.
Alcohol is a drug, it was illegal, but it is not now. Should Alcohol be made illegal again?

How about drugs which are currently not legal because they haven't been approved by the FDA? They are a drug, aren't legal now, thus they should never be made legal....
And let's keep in mind some prescription drugs are controlled substances, or made from illegal drugs.

A couple of people posted about the health problems smoking pot may cause, that it is harmful - those health problems are the exact same as those caused by Ciggarettes, which are legal, so unless Cigarettes should also be made illegal, the health issues caused by smoking pot is irrelevant to the argument of it's legalization. And again,. Alcohol has health issues associated with it's use, should that then result in it being made illegal again?

Other harmful things which are still legal include eating fried and fatty foods, eating Fast food, drinking Soda, breathing city air woth all of the pollution from vehicles and industry....so where do we stop banning things because of the health risks or harmfulness of the itme?

Someone posted about Pot smokers going out (making a 7-11 run, I belive was the phrase) and causing an accident. Well, then Alcohol should be made illegal, since most Alochol use isn't at home, but at bars, resturants, sporting arenas...where after it's consumption people drive home.

Someone posted that Alcohol is consumed for other purposes than to alter one's own state of consciousness, and that Pot is only good for altering one's own state of consciousness. Interesting argument, but then there are Non-Alcoholic Beers and Wines out there, so why is it that this person doesn't have a Non-Alcholic beer with his Barbeque or a non-alcoholic wine with his steak at dinner? And if he does, then why would he have a problem with Alcohol being made illegal, since his non-alcoholic beverages don't contain any alcohol, and thus would still be legal? And why don't resturaunts, bars, sporting arenas, etc. serve only non-alcoholic beverages if the purpose of drinking is not altering the state of one's own conciousness?
That's because part of the allure of drinking is the altering of one's own consciousness, and like beer, the amount of pot you have affects how much your consciousness is altered. Even one beer causes a change in the consumer, no matter how slight that change may actually be.

Pot is only really a gateway drug because you have to buy it from the same people who are selling those other more profitable (i.e. heavily addictive) drugs. It's also easy for those same dealers to lace the pot with other drugs to get them addicted, or to get them into using another drug.

Legalizing Marijuana makes sense, for a few reasons.

None of the reasons posted for keeping marijuana illegal make sense, especially when you look at other things that the logic behind the "keep it illegal" argument can be applied to.
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#171050 - 10/04/07 08:12 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Talk about robbing the Cradle "Cars was a first good choice, because MGJ posted how a 325 year old woman allowed a 15 year old boy (her boyfriend) to drive her car while under the influence of a drug. ..."

Some good points there, but it's a black and white type issue, either you're for it or against it.

Problem is that those who are for it generally don't want to be lumped into the Category "Pothead, Burnout, etc." and stay quiet. Those that are against it are making money off of it.

It's a Conundrum and will never be solved.

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#171051 - 10/04/07 08:16 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Conundrum:

Not trying to pick on you NYMM, but you just don't know what you're talking about when you're just repeating everything that has ever been said negatively about people who make their own decisions in life, I.e. being responsible adults and contributing to society.

My Genetic remark was in reference to "Genetics provides enough idiots in society. We don't need to be creating future generations of more unambitious and lazy idiots by legalizing pot."

I've seen people abuse drugs and have some serious issues, but they would have been that way with anything they could get their hands onto. I suppose you are right in the sense that if you're predisposed to that path, it doesn't matter if you break the law to get there.

If you're ever in Phoenix, I'll buy you a beer if it is still legal. :p
I know plenty about narcotics usage and its negative effects on people and society.

I worked as a narcotics cop for a number of years. There is nothing benign about any controlled substance, including marijuana.

I don't think you know what you are talking about other than your limited exposure to pot or any other narcotic for that matter.

You actually sound like a user.

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#171052 - 10/04/07 08:23 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
I agree that when people compare marijuana to alcohol it is completely ridiculous and absurd. (For the most part, it is usually pot stoners who make such comparisons. Often as an argument to validate their pot usage).
So give us a meaningful distinction. You basically just typed an encyclopedia and all you gave us on this point was your conclusion that the comparison is "ridiculous and absurd." Well Madman, how exactly is the comparison "ridiculous and absurd?"

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#171053 - 10/04/07 08:41 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


NYMM, you let all the law enforcement rhetoric corrupt your thinking on this.

You don't have the facts to back all your arguments because they don't exist.

I'll agree with you on 99% of political discussions, but I disagree with you on this one.

Government studies on the long term effects are largely inconclusive. Not all potheads are lazy asses. There's a lot more people than you think who are occassional recreational users. Those same people are involved in local politics, are business owners, etc.

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