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#171154 - 06/08/07 10:45 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
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Alcohol is way worse!! I don't smoke by the way.

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#171155 - 06/08/07 10:56 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
GrayHam Offline
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Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
I don't drink, and I don't smoke.

What do I do?

Apparently, listen to too much Adam Ant . . .
_________________________
Does anybody remember laughter?

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#171156 - 06/08/07 11:01 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:

I'm glad you think it's OK that we put millions and millions of taxpayer dollars into punishing potheads.

Myself, I think there's a lot more worthwhile things we could be spending that money on.
I never said I thought all potheads should be in jail. I think the dealers should be in jail and do some time. Users for the most part should be hit with fines, and most states treat it as such. People caught with small amounts may typically be hit with a misdemeanor and a desk appearance ticket.

I also think the "three strike" laws in some states should be revisited and written better to avoid putting certain people away because of the way these laws are written.

It's also useless crying about the money spent on enforcing pot laws. It can also be a money maker because of the fines some of the petty offenses generate.

The government blows far much more money on useless earmarks and pork then they do on combating petty marijuana users. Have you looked at the billions being wasted in the most recent appropriations bill?

Enforcing drug laws should be the very least of your concerns if you are concerned about government spending.

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#171157 - 06/08/07 11:20 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Mobycat Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

Most of the legitimate healthcare industry says medical marijuana is a fraud. Medical marijuana is political movement for potheads. It's not a legitimate scientific or health industry issue.
I'd like to know where this "most of the legitimate" is.

It's not the AMA. They say further studies are needed - they are NOT saying it's not beneficial. But the government won't even allow the studies.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#171158 - 06/08/07 11:43 AM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
Most of the legitimate healthcare industry says medical marijuana is a fraud. Medical marijuana is political movement for potheads. It's not a legitimate scientific or health industry issue.
I'd like to know where this "most of the legitimate" is.

It's not the AMA. They say further studies are needed - they are NOT saying it's not beneficial. But the government won't even allow the studies.[/b]
What do you mean the government won't allow studies?

The federal government has a licensed facility of it's own that grows marijuana for the specific purpose of scientific research. It's called the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).

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#171159 - 06/08/07 12:37 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Mobycat Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
Most of the legitimate healthcare industry says medical marijuana is a fraud. Medical marijuana is political movement for potheads. It's not a legitimate scientific or health industry issue.
I'd like to know where this "most of the legitimate" is.

It's not the AMA. They say further studies are needed - they are NOT saying it's not beneficial. But the government won't even allow the studies.[/b]
What do you mean the government won't allow studies?

The federal government has a licensed facility of it's own that grows marijuana for the specific purpose of scientific research. It's called the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA).[/b]
And they do studies on the medicinal value of pot? I think not.

Again, where is this "most of" you speak of.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#171160 - 06/08/07 01:07 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

And they do studies on the medicinal value of pot? I think not.

Again, where is this "most of" you speak of.
I would say NIDA provides the pot for research. You would most likely have to contact HHS and get a permit and then the marijauna from NIDA. You would also have to be a legitimate research organization or university that does medical and scientific research. Not "Bill and Ted" looking for an 'excellent adventure'.

I think the University of Mississippi grows the pot for NIDA. Other universities want to start growing their own.

There is no major legitimate medical organization that advocates medical marijuana. How could they? They expend a lot of effort trying to get people from smoking cigarettes. They would look like fools telling sick people it would be alright to smoke something else. Especially a substance that is smoked without a filter, and which is inhaled much more deeply then cigarettes. A substance which also raises blood pressure and causes the heart to race faster.

Some research also shows that pot is damaging to the lungs.

Why would any legitimate medical professional tell sick people to smoke something when they can get the active chemicals in a pill form?

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#171161 - 06/08/07 02:39 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I'd like to see that research by someone other than a gov't agency since you know as well as I do the government will water down and manipulate any agency reports as not to contradict any of its 'war on drugs' propaganda.

Unfortunately, the governement would consider you a criminal if you tried to conduct your own research.

Say nothing about the huge manufacturing and energy market from Hemp that the Government is turning away from simply because it's basically the same plant. Stupid.

No, scratch that.

Incredibly stupid.

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#171162 - 06/08/07 03:26 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Mobycat Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
I would say NIDA provides the pot for research. You would most likely have to contact HHS and get a permit and then the marijauna from NIDA. You would also have to be a legitimate research organization or university that does medical and scientific research. Not "Bill and Ted" looking for an 'excellent adventure'.
I don't disagree with that - a legitimate third party that has no bias on the subject is where it would have to be done.

Quote:
There is no major legitimate medical organization that advocates medical marijuana.
There is no major legitimate medical organization that advocates AGAINST it, either.

Quote:
Why would any legitimate medical professional tell sick people to smoke something when they can get the active chemicals in a pill form?
Because the pill is not as effective in delivery. Any substance is delivered more efficiently (and quickly) when it's smoked as opposed to swallowed.

By the way - John P. Walters, Director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, wrote back in 2004: smoked marijuana, a Schedule I controlled substance...has no medical value...

Now, if he said that...and Marinol has THC, which is the substance that is Marinol is used for...isn't his comment a flat out lie? Regardless of the dangers (or lack of dangers) of pot, isn't that a flat out lie?
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#171163 - 06/08/07 03:46 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
I don't drink, and I don't smoke.
goody two shoes.. :rolleyes:

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#171164 - 06/08/07 05:25 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Many cancer patients and otherwise ingest marijuana by eating it in food or shakes.

Works quite well and there is no smoke, unless you forget to turn off the blender.

Anyone who wants to use marijuana can and does. I have known professional people who use all the time and have for over thirty years.

When I think of all the tax dollars missed I shudder.

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#171165 - 06/08/07 06:13 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

I don't disagree with that - a legitimate third party that has no bias on the subject is where it would have to be done.
Quote:
There is no major legitimate medical organization that advocates AGAINST it, either.
Quote:
Because the pill is not as effective in delivery. Any substance is delivered more efficiently (and quickly) when it's smoked as opposed to swallowed.
Yes.... The AMA does recommend further scientific research into the medical uses of marijuana. The DEA also approves of scientific studies into the medical uses of marijuana.

However, the AMA clearly states that they do not approve of the delivery device being smoking. There are too many adverse affects of smoking. Especially in sick people.

The AMA wants a delivery device such as an inhaler if marijuana cannabinoids are proven to have further medical benefits than is currently known.

The AMA will never approve of smoking any plant mixtures. They don't think it should be done longer than six months in any studies or clinical trials either.

You can review the AMA's opinions and recommendations here.....

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13625.html

The DEA's web site regarding this subject is here....

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html

Even if inhalers are produced that deliver the cannibiniods into the body, the medical marijuana people will never be happy. The entire issue is nothing but a complete fraud and designed to circumvent the law.

Quote:
By the way - John P. Walters, Director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, wrote back in 2004: smoked marijuana, a Schedule I controlled substance...has no medical value...

Now, if he said that...and Marinol has THC, which is the substance that is Marinol is used for...isn't his comment a flat out lie? Regardless of the dangers (or lack of dangers) of pot, isn't that a flat out lie?
Marinol is a synthetic substance that has been available since the 80's. Smoked marijuana has many chemical components. Some of which are not good for the body. Some are also little known by science.

Marinol has the same or similar effects as pot but without all the impurities that come with pot and the act of smoking it.

The main argument of the medical marijuana fraudsters against Marinol is that it does not act immediately such as the act of smoking.

I wouldn't say the guy was lying. The Clinton Administration's "drug Czar" also stated back then that the medical marijuana issue was basically a fraud that he described as a "stalking horse" for pot legalization.

The Marinol web site is here....

http://www.marinol.com/aboutmarinol/index.html

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#171166 - 06/08/07 06:32 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:

I'd like to see that research by someone other than a gov't agency since you know as well as I do the government will water down and manipulate any agency reports as not to contradict any of its 'war on drugs' propaganda.

Unfortunately, the governement would consider you a criminal if you tried to conduct your own research.
The government does approve of research regarding marijuana. It just depends how it is done and conducted.

You do realize their are liability issues regarding testing smoking of anything. Who will pay for all the lawsuits that the lawyers will bring when the control groups say their health was destroyed because of the clinical trials? Do you want the taxpayers to pay for that? Should the researchers have to pay for that?

That is why a lot of research has to be done on animals.

The government also used to be in the medical marijuana business. Up until some time in the 90's the government used to provide pot for people with such claims. There was a federal agency that used to provide the pot for people. Then it got ridiculous and tens of thousands of people applied for claims and the government canceled the program. There is still a tiny handful of people who receive government pot.

Quote:
Say nothing about the huge manufacturing and energy market from Hemp that the Government is turning away from simply because it's basically the same plant. Stupid.
I agree that hemp does have many viable industrial uses. Most especially as a concrete and stucco additive for construction.

As far as energy goes, we have already discussed in another thread there is not enough land in the US for any plant to be a viable replacement for petroleum.

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#171167 - 06/08/07 07:11 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Mobycat Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
The government does approve of research regarding marijuana. It just depends how it is done and conducted.
Which at this point in time, is NOT happening.

The University of Mississippi's growing of pot is for the SEVEN people who managed to get into the "compassionate" program. That program was ended by Bush I. Nobody else is allowed in, and as far as I can tell - it's not being used for research at all. Once those seven are dead...it's done and ended.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#171168 - 06/08/07 07:36 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

Which at this point in time, is NOT happening.

The University of Mississippi's growing of pot is for the SEVEN people who managed to get into the "compassionate" program. That program was ended by Bush I. Nobody else is allowed in, and as far as I can tell - it's not being used for research at all. Once those seven are dead...it's done and ended.
What makes you say any of these things? What is your source of info?

Are you relying on the plethora of pro-marijuana propaganda that is out there? You may be.

NIDA does supply pot for any scientific research that applies through the proper channels. They supply all kinds of drugs and controlled substances.

Check the NIDA web site page for researchers....

http://www.nida.nih.gov/researchers.html

I don't know how current and up to date their info is, ( I suspect they are a little behind as are many government agencies), but if you search in the proper sections for marijuana related studies, there are many they have approved... and I'm sure have supplied the marijuana.

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#171169 - 06/08/07 07:41 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow....Madman's had so much cop propaganda shoved up his ass, it's beginning to come out of his mouth!

What does all this matter? The question that should be asked is Who has a right to tell a free man what he can and cannot put in his own body?

Why won't anyone answer that fucking question?

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#171170 - 06/08/07 07:44 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Oh, and Madman, where did you get your medical degree?

'Cause it seems awful strange that you should know how to best treat cancer patients.

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#171171 - 06/08/07 07:57 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Shahram:
What does all this matter? The question that should be asked is Who has a right to tell a free man what he can and cannot put in his own body?

Why won't anyone answer that fucking question?
True that.

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#171172 - 06/08/07 08:02 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

I don't know how current and up to date their info is, ( I suspect they are a little behind as are many government agencies), but if you search in the proper sections for marijuana related studies, there are many they have approved... and I'm sure have supplied the marijuana.
I don't see even one that they have given pot to. A survey does not count as research using pot.

There have been STATES that have approved it. But the DEA has NOT approved it.

The funny thing is...cocaine CAN be used in medicine.

Gee...which is more dangerous? (And cocaine - there are PLENTY of substitutes for it in medicine, seeing as how it's simply used as a topical anesthetic.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#171173 - 06/08/07 08:13 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Shahram:

Wow....Madman's had so much cop propaganda shoved up his ass, it's beginning to come out of his mouth!

What does all this matter? The question that should be asked is Who has a right to tell a free man what he can and cannot put in his own body?
What do want to put in your body?

Should the government allow cocaine, heroin, LSD and every other type of illicit drug to be freely available?

Where do we draw the line on what is acceptable? Where does the interest of society as a whole come into play according to you?

Should the government allow any manufacturer to put anything they want into any product that hits the market for human consumption? Should we allow you to paint your house with lead paint because you or someone else may think it is OK?

The list can go on and on. Where do you want to draw the line? Does getting high trump everything else? Is the line for you drawn at getting high? Society as a whole be damned.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shahram:

Oh, and Madman, where did you get your medical degree?

'Cause it seems awful strange that you should know how to best treat cancer patients.
I don't need a medical degree. You don't need one either to know that the majority of the medical profession doesn't approve of smoking pot to ease the effects of cancer treatments.

That is a bogus argument and I think you know that.

The AMA clearly states on it's web site that marijuana should remain a Schedule I drug until further scientific data is known.

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#171174 - 06/08/07 08:38 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

I don't see even one that they have given pot to. A survey does not count as research using pot.
Are you sure you are looking?

The link to clinicaltrials.gov shows the following as of 2006....

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/search?term=Marijuana&submit=Search

Quote:
There have been STATES that have approved it. But the DEA has NOT approved it.
I think the states and the research organizations still need permits and approval from HHS.

Quote:
The funny thing is...cocaine CAN be used in medicine.
The Coca plant is used for various purposes. As far as I know, it is not the same cocaine that is manufactured for the streets with kerosene.

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#171175 - 06/08/07 08:44 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Should the government allow cocaine, heroin, LSD and every other type of illicit drug to be freely available?
No you idiot. This is about marijuana. :rolleyes:

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#171176 - 06/08/07 08:52 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by DBAX:

Quote:
Should the government allow cocaine, heroin, LSD and every other type of illicit drug to be freely available?
No you idiot. This is about marijuana. :rolleyes:
You're the idiot.

The question posed was... "Who has a right to tell a free man what he can and cannot put in his own body?

I didn't see any delineation at marijuana with that question.

I highly doubt one was implied either.

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#171177 - 06/08/07 09:39 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


oK, But why is weed illegal, but tobacco and alcohol are not?

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#171178 - 06/08/07 10:09 PM Re: Marijuana legalize it?
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Mnemonic:

oK, But why is weed illegal, but tobacco and alcohol are not?
Beer, wine, tobacco, and distilled spirits are exempt from the Controlled Substances Act.

I'm sure there are many reasons for that being the case. I'm also sure many of those reasons are disputed by the pro-drug lobby. There is plenty out there on both sides of the argument.

Even though alcohol has a potential for abuse, it also is societally accepted and can be used without the purpose of specifically obtaining a high.

The reason is not specifically clear and is open to much interpretation.

Caffeine is considered a psychoactive drug and is also not on the list.

DEA Drug Scheduling is here.....

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html

EDIT: Alcohol is still prohibited in some places around the country because of local laws.

I'm sure many people have been on a road trip and wound up in a "dry county" at some time or another.

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