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#177392 - 06/02/02 08:17 PM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
Kerensky97 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/01
Posts: 3385
Loc: Utah
If this were true then how come EVERY manufacturer doesn't put a chunk of Zinc on the chassis.

They could solve the rust problem for the simple cost of a few dollars per vehicle.

It's like all miracle products, if they could solve such a major problem why does rust persist?
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#177393 - 07/02/02 03:17 AM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
Xrugger Offline
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Registered: 26/12/00
Posts: 1207
Loc: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by Ender_Myst:
Seemed a bit hokey... when you think about it rust is a reaction of iron with water; now how would the zink prevent this reaction if the iron/steel is 3 feet away? Elementary, my dear Watson, it can't.


Wrong. Rust is the result of a reaction of Iron and Oxygen. Water just helps the process along. the sacrificial annode works well on boats, I'm not sure how well it would work out of water, but the Chemistry is there like TimR pointed out.
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#177394 - 07/02/02 07:06 AM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
TimR Offline
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Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 372
Loc: Forest Lake, MN
Fine. Okay, you are right - it really doesn't work. The earth is flat, and the moon landing was a hoax.

How the heck should I know why car manufacturers don't put it on every car? Maybe because by the time rust becomes a problem - they could care less about the vehicle. Maybe because rust is less of a problem with modern steel. Maybe because dealerships like selling undercoatings. Maybe because they did some cost/benefit analysis and found that consumers wouldn't pay for it.

TimR

Quote:
Originally posted by Kerensky97/ NOXCAPE:
If this were true then how come EVERY manufacturer doesn't put a chunk of Zinc on the chassis.

They could solve the rust problem for the simple cost of a few dollars per vehicle.

It's like all miracle products, if they could solve such a major problem why does rust persist?

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#177395 - 10/02/02 08:42 AM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
Xrugger Offline
Member

Registered: 26/12/00
Posts: 1207
Loc: Chicago, IL
The reason it isn't used on cars is that it only work in water. A boat is in water a car/truck is not. Unless your a U-boat Commander. The zink put on aircraft is not just a chunk bolted somwhere, its actually a paint/primer/rust proofing that is put on the airframe. If you have ever seen the a military aircraft with a yellow green paint on the inside this is the zinc coating. Alot of time this is painted over on moder aircraft but can be seen in aircraft that are being build and haven't been painted yet or in older military aircraft like WWII bombers where they didn't bother to painbt over it in the interior.

In order for a zink anode to work you need ot have electrolosys and you can only have that in an ion solution (IE: non deionized water (fresh or saltwater)). Basically with a boat your making a battery when you put in water. The zink reacts before the other metals thus protecting the boat. So this would only help protect your X if you have a snorkle.
read the link that Storm posted earlier. Cathodic Protection for Cars

[ 02-10-2002: Message edited by: Xrugger ]
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#177396 - 10/02/02 08:27 PM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
Kerensky97 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/01
Posts: 3385
Loc: Utah
From the above website:
Quote:
One has to understand the principle of CP to understand that the technique works by forcing a protective flow of electrons to the metal that needs protection. For this process to work, you need a complete electrical circuit to bring the electrons back. In the case of an outboard motor on a boat, the sea water completes the circuit. In the case of a bridge, the wet soil completes the circuit.

But in your car, the only way to complete the circuit on all the metal in your car is to drive into seawater or be buried in soil! There are various products on the market claiming to provide cathodic electrochemical protection to your car, just by injecting electrons into your metal work - but they don't work. Countries like Canada and the U.S.A. have actually got court orders to stop these products from being sold - simply because they don't work. In your car, there are lots of little nooks and crannies where dirt and/or water can collect. The rust happens not where the metal is dry, nor where the metal is wet - but at the interface between the wet and dry metal. So if you screwed a bunch of anodes right on the interface or one or two millimeters thereof, you would protect your car. But you would need thousands of these anodes over your car.


Zinc plating over the entire chassis does work as does painting the chassis, covering it with rubberized undercoating (which is really just thick rubbery paint), even spraying oil over it seals it (but the oil wears off).
Basically if you want to keep steel from rusting, cover it.
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#177397 - 11/02/02 01:06 PM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
TimR Offline
Member

Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 372
Loc: Forest Lake, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by Kerensky97/ NOXCAPE:
From the above website:
Zinc plating over the entire chassis [b]does
work as does painting the chassis, covering it with rubberized undercoating (which is really just thick rubbery paint), even spraying oil over it seals it (but the oil wears off).
Basically if you want to keep steel from rusting, cover it.[/b]


I agree with this. The principle this works on is that if the covering is scratched in some manner, the zinc will form zinc oxide and cover the newly exposed iron.

And I see that I am partially incorrect. The chemistry is right, and the situation I saw in my mind is correct, but it is not the one you are talking about. I see the undercarriage of the vehicle covered by road spray - and there being a path for ionic flow in that covering of water. I guess I don't see any difference between that and moist ground. You claim that wouldn't be a path for the ionic flow.

In any case, who cares - I don't enough to try it out, and I live in the rust belt. Two years of driving through salty winter roads and there is minimal rust on my vehicle.

Tim

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#177398 - 12/02/02 02:06 AM Re: Can a block of 99% pure Zinc help prevent rust?
Kerensky97 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/01
Posts: 3385
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Originally posted by TimR:
In any case, who cares - I don't enough to try it out, and I live in the rust belt. Two years of driving through salty winter roads and there is minimal rust on my vehicle.


Tell me about it, they don't call it Salt Lake City for nothing. In the winter the roads here are white from there being so much salt on the roads.
My solution is to goto a touchless car wash that has an underbody spray.
So far so good. smile
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