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#203569 - 13/05/04 02:19 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Of course there are gray areas. The problem I have with Liberals is that it seems they see everything as gray areas. Sometimes you have to chose a side, even if one side is not 100% right.
Exactly. I think a lot of our actions during the Cold War demonstrate this.
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#203570 - 13/05/04 02:21 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
Of course there are gray areas. The problem I have with Liberals is that it seems they see everything as gray areas. Sometimes you have to chose a side, even if one side is not 100% right.
Um...if it's not 100% right, wouldn't that mean that it isn't black and white?
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"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#203571 - 13/05/04 02:22 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by MBFlyerfan:
[b]Of course there are gray areas. The problem I have with Liberals is that it seems they see everything as gray areas. Sometimes you have to chose a side, even if one side is not 100% right.
Um...if it's not 100% right, wouldn't that mean that it isn't black and white?[/b]
Don't confuse 'em. They're on a roll . . .
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#203572 - 13/05/04 02:30 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just saw the video yesterday. I got sick to my stomach not because of its graphic nature but because of the anger it made me feel. The lack of morality from these pieces of shit just confuses the hell out of me.

I don't understand why the so called religion of peace would in any way defend or explain away the actions of these few twisted individuals. Example: I talked to a coworker about the persons' actions being evil and wrong. The reply I recieved was that the "US shouldn't be there in the first place imposing their will on a people." Fucking idiot. I wasn't even talking about the war just about the actions of these individuals. By the way this person is muslim.

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#203573 - 13/05/04 02:49 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Kick his ass and call the FBI. [Finger]
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Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203574 - 13/05/04 04:06 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
xterrabull Offline
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Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 397
Loc: san jose, CA, USA
I only heard audio over radio...almost crashed the X...couldn't believe the horror of his screaming & eventual gargling as (I assume) his own blood was interfereing with his screaming attempts.
Pretty sad Mr. Berg is using his son\'s death to promote political agenda.

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#203575 - 13/05/04 07:32 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered


My brother is over there. Kick some hadji ass i say!!!

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#203576 - 13/05/04 08:16 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by makai006:
My brother is over there. Kick some hadji ass i say!!!
Um...yeah...Hadji isn't even an Arabic name.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#203577 - 13/05/04 08:35 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
xterra3202 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Georgia
unless we go and invade india too!!!!
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Thomas Jefferson

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#203578 - 13/05/04 08:43 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered


I saw a comedian about a week ago that gave his insight on the war. He said that the administration should have blamed Dale Earnhardt's death on Saddam. In his words the war would have already been over. On the second day you would have seen 15,000 bass boats crossing the ocean with beagles howling and shot guns blasting. [Finger]

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#203579 - 13/05/04 08:55 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by ELFTERRA:
I saw a comedian about a week ago that gave his insight on the war. He said that the administration should have blamed Dale Earnhardt's death on Saddam. In his words the war would have already been over. On the second day you would have seen 15,000 bass boats crossing the ocean with beagles howling and shot guns blasting. [Finger]
[Spit] [LOL]
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#203580 - 13/05/04 11:36 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Origami Gangsta Offline
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Registered: 24/05/01
Posts: 6497
Loc: Dammit! Even CLOSER to Smith a...
Oh yeah, South Carolina would lead the charge front and center.

Hell, you could probably get quite a redneck army from Smith's neck of the woods alone..
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#203581 - 14/05/04 12:39 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Weasel Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/02
Posts: 924
Loc: San Antonio
I support the troops more than you do...I have seventeen American flags on my hummer...beat that
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#203582 - 14/05/04 02:59 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by socalpunX:
A wierd thing is why exactly was the guy there? Did he really pack up his shit and head to Iraq just looking for a job? It says he didn't find one and was headed home. Was he planning on picking up the local classifides and starting the interview process?

I can't understand why any American would go there unless they were allready a contract worker or worked for a company that was a contractor.

It sucks that he was killed and used as an example by pissed off millitants. I can see why the government might have been a little suspicious of the bearded guy who just shows up with nothing to do looking for a job.

The fact that he was there really bewilders me.
CBS/AP

(CBS/AP) As the family of slain American Nicholas Berg gathered for the memorial service at a West Chester synagogue Friday, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced that U.S. authorities investigated Nicholas Berg for a possible connection to terrorists but determined there was no link.

Moussaoui is now in federal custody and awaiting trial on conspiracy charges stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks.

"The suggestion that Mr. Berg was in some way involved in terrorist activity, or may have been linked in some way to terrorist activity, is a suggestion that we do not have any ability to support and we do not believe is a valid one," Ashcroft said at a news conference.

The 2002 investigation determined that an e-mail address once used by Berg apparently was obtained by the Moussaoui acquaintances while Berg was briefly an engineering student at the University of Oklahoma in 1999.

cbsnews.com full story

As I was saying earlier in the week: who is this guy really? Why was he really there?

What are the odds that a Jewish guy who was questioned post 9/11 for a possible connection to terrorism decides to go to Iraq to find employment, gets detained by either Iraqi and/or U.S. forces, gets released and then finds himself kidnapped and then beheaded by Islamic terrorists.

What an incredible coincidence.
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#203583 - 14/05/04 03:21 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
babyX Offline
Member

Registered: 20/04/01
Posts: 2852
There are no such things as coincidences.
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Whatevs.

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#203584 - 14/05/04 03:46 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
mmUTK Offline
Member

Registered: 15/12/01
Posts: 1903
Loc: Knoxville, Tn
Quote:
Berg's father Michael Berg said Thursday that State Department officials told him his son was being held by the U.S. military.
Quote:
"Nick told me, 'Iraqi police caught me one night, they saw my passport and my Jewish last name and my Israeli stamp. This guy thought I was a spy, so they put me with American soldiers and American soldiers put me in a jail for two weeks,' "
Just some interesting updates.
Was Berg in U.S. custody before being killed?
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#203585 - 14/05/04 03:50 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
mmUTK Offline
Member

Registered: 15/12/01
Posts: 1903
Loc: Knoxville, Tn
A better timeline

March 30:
Berg's father waits at JFK airport in New York for his son, who does not show up.

March 31:
The FBI tells the Berg family that Nicholas had been picked up by Iraqi police in Mosul and transferred to U.S. authority. A coalition spokesman said on May 12 that Berg was never in U.S. custody, but was detained by Iraqi policemen, who thought Berg was involved in suspicious activities. The FBI visited Berg three times while he was in detention and determined he was not involved with criminal or terrorist activities, said the spokesman.

April 5:
The Berg family sues Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department for holding their son without merit.

April 6:
Berg is released from custody, and the lawsuit is abandoned.

April 9:
Berg disappears shortly after telling his parents he would try to leave Iraq as soon as possible.

May 8:
Berg's body is found by an Army patrol on a roadside near Baghdad, and his parents are informed soon after.

May 11:
The videotaped beheading of Nicholas Berg is posted on an al Qaeda-linked Web site.
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#203586 - 14/05/04 04:08 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4805
Loc: East Bay, CA
Very odd coincidence - something sounds fishy. [Huh?]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119896,00.html
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#203587 - 14/05/04 05:05 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
All right. Only read this post if you think the following is possible:

There really were men on the grassy knoll and Oswald did not act alone.

Jack Ruby wasn’t really a random bar owner that was angry at Oswarld.

Sirhan Sirhan wasn’t some random guy who killed Robert Kennedy.

Marilynn Monroe was just a woman that dated J.F. Kennedy and over dosed.

UFOs exist and Area 51 is the site of government experiments with a seized downed
craft.

We were fighting in Cambodia longer and more often than our military has taken responsibility for.

We have tortured and/or killed enemy operatives to further our causes.

Our government participates or has participated in the overthrow of governments, political assassinations and other covert illegal activity through the military, the CIA or the FBI.

I might be crazy.

Now if you are still here, this is what can be considered as not being too far from the realm of possibility.

Here’s what we know.

Berg was an American.

Berg was questioned by the FBI regarding his connection to or possible contact with a known or suspected terrorist that may have a connection to the 9/11 attacks.

An e-mail address was the reason for questioning and the basis of the possible contact.

Berg is a “small businessman” who works in the telecommunications industry.

Berg made this and a prior trip to Iraq since the start of the current war under the premise of working or obtaining employment.

Berg was unable to secure employment.

Berg was not associated with any of the known contractors working on the rebuilding of Iraq nor had any known ties to any other organization contributing to the rebuilding of Iraq. .

Berg was detained by either the Iraqi police or a branch of the U.S. government forces in Iraq.

Berg’s family filed a lawsuit against the U.S. federal government regarding his detainment and he was released.

Berg’s body was found . Decapitated.

Berg’s family believes him to be dead.

What isn’t verified or substantiated./what we think we know/ what we’ve been told

Berg’s only purpose was to secure or obtain employment.

Berg did not have any ties to any terrorist organization

Berg was a suspected terrorist or had terrorist ties

The U.S. forces did in fact detain him.

U.S forces did not detain him.

He was in fact released and free to leave Iraq.

He was kidnapped.

Who found him and where.

Berg , although having a Jewish name and the possibility that he had an Israeli stamp on his passport, was in fact, Jewish.

Now based on this information, there appears to be more to the story than we are being told which of course me no choice but to speculate or devise a conspiracy theory.

Berg, once questioned by the FBI, never stopped being suspected of having ties to terrorism, a desire to know or be associated with terrorists, or ceased having knowledge of terrorists and/or terrorist activities.
Or

Berg, having telecommunications and wiring experience used his knowledge to the benefit of either possible terrorists and/or the federal government.

Or
Berg had knowledge of terrorist activities in and around the time of his questioning and was used as an informant by the federal government at any time prior to his death.
Or

Berg knew nothing and the use of his e-mail address by terrorists and subsequent questioning was a mere coincidence.

Berg found himself in Iraq to continue his contact with agents of the federal government and/or known terrorists either with or without the knowledge of possible FBI or terrorist handlers.

At some point Berg became expendable to either the FBI (assuming they were controlling and/or monitoring his activities) or became expendable to his terrorist contacts.

He was detained by the Iraqi forces and interviewed by the FBI on separate occasions. At this point it becomes questionable whose custody he was in.

Five masked men are who appear on the video of his murder. Their identity is speculative at best. By the accent during the reading of the manifesto we know one of them to be Arab and possibly Iraqi.

The complete identities of the remaining four men remain a mystery.

Was he released at all?

Was his murder staged by Iraqi police and /or U.S. forces, the FBI, the CIA or other black ops personnel as a way of reinforcing or reminding Americans the brutality of terrorists in a time of waning public and political support for the war while at the same time being able to dispose of a reoccurring problem?

Was he released in an area known to be under the control or possibly a location of terrorists who had the knowledge that he had been interviewed/interrogated/flipped by the FBI. If this is the case, the ultimate outcome would have surely been foreseeable.

I could be just nuts and totally off track.

But I do believe that there's more to this than meets the eyes.

Who really were those five men in the video ?

What was their true motive for killing Berg?

Who was Nicholas Berg?
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203588 - 14/05/04 09:53 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Todrick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 7756
Loc: So.Cal
you forgot the fact the blood would pour profusely out of his corotid artery had it been cut while his heart was pumping...

Think back to the hockey goalie and how much blood poured out in a short period of time... his head was still very much attached... now think of how slowly berg bled in relation...

sorry, just fiugure i'd add to it the other part of the theory...

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#203589 - 15/05/04 04:55 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
xterra3202 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Georgia
hummmm, consipiracy theory and such very interesting. im no doctor or police investigator and dont really know what someone should look like if they are getting their head removed for them but it looked pretty damn real to me. all the stuff about blood spirting sounds like people watching too much Kill Bill or Anime!!!!! HaHaHa!!!!!
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrannts."

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#203590 - 15/05/04 05:38 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered


First off, There is no reason that they should have chopped his head off, and when people say its all because we abused the iraqi soldiers over there thats bullshit. making some towelheads get naked and touch eachother can no way be put in the same category as cutting a mans head off like some sort of livestock. and as for you non supporting people out there. you may think that we may not belong over there but we do have thousands of soldiers over there fighting these camel-jockeys, they dont need to hear more bullshit from people in their own country. buck- up you pussies and support your troops and if not get the fuck outta here!! [Finger]

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#203591 - 15/05/04 08:19 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
bn300 Offline
Member

Registered: 19/09/00
Posts: 1501
Loc: Buffalo, MN
Jesus Twodick! You make a good point.
Guess I'll have to watch it again.
eek
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#203592 - 15/05/04 08:39 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Black2002X:
buck- up you pussies and support your troops and if not get the fuck outta here!! [Finger]
Supporting the troops is one thing. Supporting the administration PUTTING them there is something else entirely.

And I have a better idea - since you don't seem to get the concept of freedom of speech/expression (or maybe you just don't support the concept?), which is the number one freedom here, why don't YOU "get the fuck outta here"?
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#203593 - 16/05/04 12:58 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
OffroadX Offline
Member

Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 13682
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Quote:
Originally posted by Todrick:
you forgot the fact the blood would pour profusely out of his corotid artery had it been cut while his heart was pumping...
WTF? Between the shitty video quality of the clip (and I have the better of the two) and the dark floor and poor lighting, a large and growing pool of blood is just visible. The clip doesn't have the resolution to show any blood that might be squirting, and you can only just make out the blood draining from the bottom of the severed head as it is held up at the end.

Gimme a frickin' break here people, you actually think this is a fake?
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