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#203619 - 18/05/04 03:07 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
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Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
I don't know. I think he was just a good guy that wanted to help people out. He had done that before in Guam as we know. I heard a friend of his on the radio that said he was trying to learn the language and relate to what the people thought. That would explain his possession of the books. I don't think there is anything mysterious going on.
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#203620 - 18/05/04 03:18 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
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Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
So Fronty, you really chalk up the Ok. al Queda connection , subsequent 2002 F.B.I. interviews his detainment in Iraq along with additional F.B.I. interviews , aalong with his untimely death at the hands of assumed terroristsas just a mere coincidence?

Let's ignore ever other theory and supposition that is being tossed arround about his involvement with U.S. or Isreali intelligence. (After all his passport indicated that he had traveled to Isreal)

Ignore the orange jumpsuit thing. Forget about the gold ring and the fat terrorists in bulletproof vests wearing white tennis shoes using two cameras. Forget about the white plastic char that you can buy at any Wallmart in Iraq.

Forget about the broken timeline or the audio that didn't match up with the video. Forget about his company that didn't exist, wasn't registered with the state or incorporated. Forget about the fact that he was wandering arround Iraq alone with no job or job offers or no contracts. Forget about the books that were found on his person when he was detaind. Forget that his family had to sue the U.S. to release him from a custody that they still deny they had him in. Forget about his father's political views.

Just tell me one thing about one idea:

If you had to put the odds of a person being questioned by the F.B.I. relative to 9/11 and then finding himself being beheaded at the hands of terrorists where would you put them?

A billion to one? Ten billion to one? A hundred billion to one?

Let me ask you. If you were interviewed by the FBI about your possible involvement with a 9/11 terrorist would you EVER find yourself in the hotbed of terrorist and counterterrorist activity that Iraq is? EVER?

You really believe that this is all just one big coincidence?

REALLY? REALLY?
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203621 - 18/05/04 03:43 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally Posted By socalpunX:
You really believe that this is all just one big coincidence?
"Nobody believes that crap about moons and goochers. It's baby stuff." laugh

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#203622 - 19/05/04 05:35 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
MBFlyerfan Offline
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Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
I dont, there are no coincidences. I think he was up to something. What? I have no idea.
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#203623 - 19/05/04 09:30 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
Kerensky97 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/01
Posts: 3385
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Originally posted by socalpunX:
So Fronty, you really chalk up the Ok. al Queda connection , subsequent 2002 F.B.I. interviews his detainment in Iraq along with additional F.B.I. interviews , aalong with his untimely death at the hands of assumed terroristsas just a mere coincidence?
It does sound like a bunch of crackpot nonsense, but I did wonder how Iraqi terrorists could get the video of the beheading up on the net in about a week.

I've got a nice computer, good DV camera, DSL connection, and good web hosting and it usually takes me a while to get video on the net.
I thought they seemed pretty tech savvy for terrorists.
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#203624 - 20/05/04 06:03 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
InfX708 Offline
Member

Registered: 24/09/00
Posts: 864
Loc: Ft. Bragg, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by airbornenurse:
The point is not to be taken hostage, alive that is, Call it macho BS, but thats the deal.
Prior to the 101st crossing the berm, we had heard stories of Iraqi's beheading prisoners. We vowed that we would never surrender, at least, not completely.
What I don't understand is how this family can blame anyone but the guy himself. Noone forced him to go there. I'm also not sure that he was innocently driving around Mosul. I know a good portion of the Mosul cops - they aren't the most motivated guys in the world. They also love us. The only reason they would have detained this guy at a checkpoint is because he was driving after curfew or had a weapon with him. Both are big no no's and both can get you shot really fast, depending on who finds you. I doubt we'll ever find out what this guy was doing, but I don't buy the communications thing - especially in Mosul. We had the bulk of the infrastructure running reliably before we left. The only reason we would detain him over there is because the Iraqis caught him committing a crime. I think it shows quite a bit of professionalism on their part to have turned him over to us rather than keep him in an Iraqi jail.
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#203625 - 20/05/04 07:20 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
InfX708 Offline
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Registered: 24/09/00
Posts: 864
Loc: Ft. Bragg, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by makai006:
[b]My brother is over there. Kick some hadji ass i say!!!
Um...yeah...Hadji isn't even an Arabic name.[/b]
I thought we covered this way back in August or so. Haji is US-slang for any Arab, just as Jerry was for Germans, and Charlie was for the VC. I haven't met any Germans named Jerry, and I highly doubt you will meet a Vietnamese named Charlie.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by socalpunX:
Why was the man who beheaded him wearing a gold ring something that is strictly forbidden to Islam.

Not sure where you get this from, but every married man I saw over there had a gold ring.


How many fat Islamic fighters or terrorists have you seen? How many fat Iraqis havey you seen in ANY pictures? Other than the fat guys that killed Berg.

I've personally secured one fat Fedayeen Sadam major: Abbas Ramadan Kasim. I have seen loads of fat Iraqis. Two or 3 were muktars - kinda like a neighborhood mayor, but more powerful. The guy that used to cook my hamburgers in the Mosul Hotel was fat.

They continue to say that it was the Iraqis that had detained and held him. THE IRAQIS DON'T HAVE ANY GOVERNMENT OR CONTROLL OF IRAQ AT ALL WHATSOEVER! The police force , the little there is, acts under the direction of the U.S. occupational forces.
Mosul is a city of about 2 million people, give or take - I think the 3rd largets city in Iraq. v They have a sizable police force - both in patrol and traffic divisions. The city of Mosul is under Iraqi control for the most part. The US has limited itself to an established base at the airport and conducts missions to identify and neutralize hostile forces. The mayor and the city council run the place, as long as there are no problems. The police may detain any criminal they see fit.

They do not detain Americans , or anyone else for that matter, unless they are directed to by U.S. millitary or other government entities. U.S. millitary MP's had contact with him regardless of
who was officially responsible for his detention.
Not true. If they have cause, you will be detained. Professional courtesy dictates that US citizens are handed over to the US, but that is all. We don't babysit the Mosul Police. We trained them, uniformed them, and gave them a few Glocks. and pickups. They have a fully functioning Police Academy with US and Iraqi instructors. Mosul is the model city for Iraq. It has crime, but not much more than you'd expect in a city that size where the average citizen has an AK-47. Imagine how New York would be if there were RPGs and artillery rounds laying around for a few months.

Sorry if this looks totaly screwed up. I can't seem to find the edit post button this morning.
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#203626 - 20/05/04 08:30 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Yep, I think it is all a coincidence.

1. The gold ring thing has been explained.
2. People are fat all over.
3. White shoes and plastic chairs are available worldwide. I am sure jumpsuits are as well.
4. They were wearing Soviet ammo jackets, not bulletproof vests. :rolleyes:
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Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203627 - 20/05/04 09:18 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
Mobycat Offline
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*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by InfX708:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by makai006:
[qb]My brother is over there. Kick some hadji ass i say!!!
Um...yeah...Hadji isn't even an Arabic name.[/b]
I thought we covered this way back in August or so. Haji is US-slang for any Arab, just as Jerry was for Germans, and Charlie was for the VC. I haven't met any Germans named Jerry, and I highly doubt you will meet a Vietnamese named Charlie.
I have always heard people refer to Arabs as Abdul if they want a slang word.

Never heard Jerry for Germans before. Always thought it was just "kraut."

When I hear Hadji, I think of Johnny Quest...and India.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#203628 - 20/05/04 10:28 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
Yep, I think it is all a coincidence.

1. The gold ring thing has been explained.
2. People are fat all over.
3. White shoes and plastic chairs are available worldwide. I am sure jumpsuits are as well.
4. They were wearing Soviet ammo jackets, not bulletproof vests. :rolleyes:
Read my post to you again again. Absent of those speculative and far reaching tin foil hat discounted theories , I was asking only about the one factor that had his government contact begin with al Queda and end with being slaughtered by supposed terrorists.

And you feel that it was merely a conicidence?
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203629 - 20/05/04 10:34 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Oh sorry. Actually that is the only part that does concern me. The Dad said he sat next to Moussaoui(sp?) on a bus, while the FBI had something completely different to say. I don't put much stock in what the whacko idiot dad says though. Maybe he was a sympathizer, and thought they would welcome him, when the truth was he was just another jew american to them, or maybe they killed him because they thought he was giving info to the FBI. Either of these scenarios make him into a POS basically, and until more info comes out, if it does, I want to believe he was a good guy. As far as odds go, who knows. How many jew american guys are there that went to OU?
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203630 - 20/05/04 10:37 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by InfX708:
The only reason we would detain him over there is because the Iraqis caught him committing a crime. I think it shows quite a bit of professionalism on their part to have turned him over to us rather than keep him in an Iraqi jail.[/QUOTE]

Would a curfew violation or other crime that would have caused the Iraqi police to detain him be reason enough for the FBI to need to interview a suspect? Does the Iraqi police bring in the FBI to interview all detainees?

Why, if he was in fact detained and held by the Iraqis for a crime wasn't he charged or at least why isn't such a charge being made public?

The Defense Department is still denying that they had him in custody. They would admit only that he had been interviewed by the FBI and he had contact with U.S. MPs while in the Iraqi jail. They are contending that he was solely in the custody of Iraqis although he was supposedly released by the Iraqis after his family filed a lawsuit in U.S. court.

Quick quesiton, InfX708:

Did you see , hear of or have any contact with any Isreali intelligence in Iraq?
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203631 - 20/05/04 10:42 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
I am sure the name raised some eyebrows, after there being a previous investigation.
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203632 - 20/05/04 10:43 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
As far as odds go, who knows. How many jew american guys are there that went to OU?
The real queston is: How many Jewish Americans had ANY contact with any of the 9/11 highjackers (why just reduce it to OU students, for that matter, let's take Jewish out of the equation and just ask how many Americans) were interviewed by the FBI re. 9/11 then then found themselves in Iraq at all.

Not to mention being in Iraq and having any contact with terrorists yet once again.

Those odds have to be astronomical.
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203633 - 20/05/04 10:49 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
I am sure the name raised some eyebrows, after there being a previous investigation.
To who ? The Iraqi city police that are busy with the day to day function of maintaning law in order in a big city? If you go with the assumption that he was picked up for breaking a local law by the Iraqi police and not anything directed by the U.S. he would have been picked up locally by the police and detained locally by the same local police.

At what point does his name ring a bell to the Iraqi police? They just know who Nick Berg is? so they pick him up for wandering arround after curfew or carrying a gun. Isn't it a local matter? Again, why wasn't he charged and why is the only story that we are hearing is that he was held for his own protection?

My point being that his aprehention and detention absolutely had to be under the direction of U.S. intelligence at one point or another because they are the only ones that would see the need for him to be interviewed by the FBI or other intelligence services.
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203634 - 20/05/04 10:58 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Maybe they have a policy of informing the Americans when they detain one. It would make sense to me.
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203635 - 20/05/04 11:11 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
So they tell the American MPs that they have an American in custody. Why was he in custody in the first place? The Defense Dept. is maintaining that he was held for his own protection. That reeks of bullshit.

So according to your theory they Iraqis pick up this random guy for a random offense and give the MPs his name when he is detained.

The MPs put his name on whatever list and he comes up hot. So they pass his name on to the FBI who come and interview him three seperate times over the course of three weeksand determines that he is of no significance even though they have previously met with him post 9/11 re. his association with the supposed 20th highjacker.

But they determine that he his just an innocent contractor. Yet he is still held until his family sues the government in federal court and wins his release from and Iraqi jail that falls under no juristiction of U.S. courts even when the Defense Dept. maintains he ws not in U.S. custody.

Then ,again by coincidence, he finds himself abducted by al Queda terrorists and beheaded.

You REALLY buy that bullshit?

REALLY?
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203636 - 20/05/04 11:13 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
InfX708 Offline
Member

Registered: 24/09/00
Posts: 864
Loc: Ft. Bragg, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by socalpunX:
Quote:
Originally posted by InfX708:
[b]
The only reason we would detain him over there is because the Iraqis caught him committing a crime. I think it shows quite a bit of professionalism on their part to have turned him over to us rather than keep him in an Iraqi jail.
Would a curfew violation or other crime that would have caused the Iraqi police to detain him be reason enough for the FBI to need to interview a suspect? Does the Iraqi police bring in the FBI to interview all detainees?

Why, if he was in fact detained and held by the Iraqis for a crime wasn't he charged or at least why isn't such a charge being made public?

The Defense Department is still denying that they had him in custody. They would admit only that he had been interviewed by the FBI and he had contact with U.S. MPs while in the Iraqi jail. They are contending that he was solely in the custody of Iraqis although he was supposedly released by the Iraqis after his family filed a lawsuit in U.S. court.

Quick quesiton, InfX708:

Did you see , hear of or have any contact with any Isreali intelligence in Iraq?[/b][/QUOTE]

The report said he had an Isreali stamp in his passport. I'll check the Iraq visitors guide tonight, but I believe that having an Isreali stamp in your passport is illegal in Iraq. I do know that you were not allowed to fly into Iraq from Isreal. So, yes, it would not be inconceivable for the FBI to want to interview an American traveling into Iraq on his own arrested with an Isreali stamp in his passport. I don't think the Iraqi police "bring in the FBI" in any case. Doesn't quite work that way. More likely, the IPs told the MPs that they had a US civilian in their custody. There are several US govt agencies weorking in Iraq. Perhaps the circumstances surrounding his arrest caused the FBI to want to look into things.

I did not have contact with any member of any foreign intelligence service, that I know of, while there.
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#203637 - 20/05/04 11:19 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
InfX708 , do you have your own theories about who you may think this guy was and what he was really doing there? Or even wish to share possible rumors or conjecture that have been thrown?

I have heard so many things. Friend of a friend type stuff.

He was working with Isreali intelligence.

He was attempting to contact al Queda on his own as American Talliban II.

He was a U.S. mole attempting to spy on terrorist activities.

Ect. Ect.

any of your own thoughts?
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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#203638 - 20/05/04 11:24 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
I see that as a completely plausible explanation. It is anymore far fetched than the others really. His Dad's connections worry me a bit though also.

I don't know what the truth is, but I am not going to label the guy a traitor unless I know some more facts.
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203639 - 20/05/04 11:30 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
InfX708 Offline
Member

Registered: 24/09/00
Posts: 864
Loc: Ft. Bragg, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by Kerensky97:
It does sound like a bunch of crackpot nonsense, but I did wonder how Iraqi terrorists could get the video of the beheading up on the net in about a week.

I've got a nice computer, good DV camera, DSL connection, and good web hosting and it usually takes me a while to get video on the net.
I thought they seemed pretty tech savvy for terrorists.[/QB]
Not too tough. They have satellite internet access there. It's not like these guys are hiding in caves. They have the popular support in several cities. Wouldn't take all that much, not to mention, stuff is pretty cheap there. It's not Afghanistan. We are dealing with an industrialized nation.
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#203640 - 20/05/04 11:39 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Also, just wanted to add that at least the leader isn't Iraqi. He is Jordanian.
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#203641 - 20/05/04 11:45 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
InfX708 Offline
Member

Registered: 24/09/00
Posts: 864
Loc: Ft. Bragg, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by socalpunX:
InfX708 , do you have your own theories about who you may think this guy was and what he was really doing there? Or even wish to share possible rumors or conjecture that have been thrown?

I have heard so many things. Friend of a friend type stuff.

He was working with Isreali intelligence.

He was attempting to contact al Queda on his own as American Talliban II.

He was a U.S. mole attempting to spy on terrorist activities.

Ect. Ect.

any of your own thoughts?
Haven't heard any rumors. My theories are based solely on the low amount of info available. I've emailed a contact I have over there to see if he can get some info from an IP friend of mine. My theory is as stated. They guy was picked up for breaking a law. IPs let the US know. Something about him sent up a red flag - could be any number of things. We usually don't like American civilians running around without an escort simply for this reason - they end up hostages or dead and totally screw things up. We have enough to do without having to look for and/or rescue idealistic idiots who go in without any sort of plan for their protection. If this guy wanted to help, he probably should have headed north of Mosul to Irbil or Dohuk - Kurdish cities where Americans are loved. I doubt he was working for Al Queda - he's jewish. I'd like to know how his family knew he was being held. If he was allowed to use the phone, then he was most likely at a US facility, as the only way to make a call back to the US is via satelite phone. The phones at the Mosul jail are you standard type. Same goes for email. Iraqi jails basically consist of a large room with mats. Each prisoner has a wrist band with their name on it. They usually have a small - 3 man - garrison of MPs and are run by Iraqis. The MPs are there to check for US wanteds. I highly doubt this guy would be kept with local prisoners. He probably was taken to the airport for his safety. We were not to travel in groups of less than 3 vehicles because of the insurgency. Our Brigade CSM and his driver did not follow this rule and were killed the day before Thanksgiving. A lone American would be an easy target, especially in Mosul, where the US presence has drawn down. All this is assuming that he was kidnapped in Mosul.
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#203642 - 20/05/04 11:53 AM Re: Executed American!!!!
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
Also, just wanted to add that at least the leader isn't Iraqi. He is Jordanian.
The leader? Are you talking about al-Zarqawi? Currently that is a CIA assumption based on a supposed matching voice print. It is not fact nor has the CIA said with any absolute certainty that he was in fact the one that cut off Brg's head.

BTW he is supposed to have a fake leg and a significant limp that no one seems to notice on the tape either = tinfoil hat theory #15.
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#203643 - 20/05/04 12:01 PM Re: Executed American!!!!
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Bwahahahah! #15 is it. Well I didn't see him jogging around in circles or anything. The CIA said the believe it is him. I think they believe a little more strongly than you are portraying. They are pretty good at voice analysis you know. I want to here more about the 4 arrested in the case this week.
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