How come when my mortgage company calls due to late payment, I have to talk to someone in India (over a crappy voice-over-IP connection), who can't speak english ?

Why is our payment is late ?
Because I'm fucking unemployed because US jobs are being outsourced to fucking India.

Fuck India.
Fuck Ocwen Financial.
Fuck every US company that has moved jobs overseas simply because they can't manage themselves.

I call for a boycott of every American company that outsources American jobs to other countries.

Fuck.

That's everyone.

What is everyone going to do for a living in the future ?

People are being replaced by computers and robots.
Jobs that don't require face-to-face contact go overseas.
8,000 people reach the age of needing full time employment every day.
McDonalds just unveiled an automated fry cooker.

Dude I fight every day to keep my office open. Customer service in the US is a laugh. We eat shit and are told it taste good. Fucking IVR has killed business and customer service.

if someone put a legitimate list together with no bias I would boycott if there was a similar good product offered by a competitor that wasn't doing this new outsourcing.

I understand (but don't like) outsourcing manuf jobs, but when the service jobs start going overseas, enough is enough. If the US consumer doesn't start to hit back, we're all f'd.

Speaking of fucked...

http://www.fuckedcompany.com

I agree. We need to stop this bullshit.

But there's a downside - the price for these services would probably double if not triple. Are we as a society willing to pay this? I don't think we are.

American's are very materialistic and require a higher salary then most people around the world. If there were enough Americans that would perform hard labor jobs at $10 an hour we would see less illegal aliens in this country. Society wouldn't need them to fill certain types of jobs. But the fact is that most Red-Blooded-Americans wouldn't put forth that much effort for that small amout of pay.

That's the reason why business owners higher illegal aliens and out source jobs to places like India. It's cheaper. They can provide the same service for 1/2 if not 1/3 the price. The only alternative would be for business owners to keep these jobs here, higher Americans, pay them top dollar and RAISE consumer prices.

I believe business owners have weighed the scenerio and decided that American consumers are not willing to pay higher prices. We want things cheap! Just look at how people bitch and moan if gas prices go up a few cents a gallon. Some people will waste a half a tank just to find that one service station that saves them 2 cents a gallon.

It's a tradeoff but that's the fact of the matter.

It's a serious problem and it is getting worse every day.

It's an unholy alliance between major corporations and government.

Not only are the manufacturing jobs gone, and service and financial work being outsourced overseas, corporations still lobby the government every year claiming they need another 200,000 H-1B visas to bring in more foriegn indentured servants. The tech jobs that still exist, the corporations do not want to give them to Americans. They still want to bring in foreigners to fill these positions. With so many tech workers unemployed I don't know why they are still getting away with it. It is all a lie. Do we still need massive immigration in this country anymore, especially with millions unemployed? I don't think so.

In part we have ourselves to blame. Everyone sits back and complains yet no one does anything. Citizens need to contact their elected representatives and let them know how they feel and tell them they will not have your vote unless something is done. How many people here have ever written a letter to their Congressman or even the White House? Hell. how many people here know who their Congressman is? How many people here vote?

I know exactly what you are saying. I USED to be a computer tech for a few years. It was good while it lasted. I gave up on that shit.

Americans have been fooled into the lies and promises of "free trade" agreements and the corporate globalization agenda. All the while we are the ones who are getting fucked.

Call the 800 number on the back of your American Express card and more than likely someone in India will answer the phone.

There is no sense of nationalism, morality and good old fashioned "right and wrong" anymore in corporate or governmental leadership. This is a byproduct of a lack of these values in the leadership populace as a whole.

Insanity is rampant in America. Both the Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty regarding this problem for differing reasons.

A lot of politicians don't care about helping you or I. All they care about is gay marriage and giving illegal immigrants free medial care and drivers licenses. Check THIS LINK here and see what they care about in California. That was a jobs bill for men wearing dresses. Refuse to hire a man waering a size 14 Donna Karan dress and you will be fined $150,000. They could care less about unemployed tech workers in CA and it is not much different anywhere else. We are killing ourselves.

Everyone has to let the dirtbags in Congress know how they feel or it is going to get worse. Let the White House know too because the president now has power to sign "free trade" agreements without congressional approval.

Globalism, multicultarism and diversity will plunge this nation into 3rd world status in the near future.

Boycott will never work because it is almost all American companies involved with this shit.

Sorry to hear about the mortage payment. Don't let that shit go.

"The sweet taste of the cheap prices, is followed by the bitterness of shitty service"

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP....costcutting, by implementing technology and hiring undereducated people to lower prices and create profit by undercutting fair price for good service.

When shopping for a bank I liked the menu of services "humungous bank" offered, "hey they are big so they must be good". My first expence check was "frozen" for 7 days as they did not know me as a client. THEN the financial advisor I gave $6000 to invest for me simply put the cash into a term deposit which I could not touch for 3 months.

I am now with a small Credit Union and SWEAR that I will never go back, Sure I might pay a bit more and my mortgage is .005% more BUT, I am a somebody when I walk in there, I got a loan over the phone with the mony in my account before I signed anything.

Shitty service does not get a 2nd chance with me. I work extremely hard for what I have and will spend more to be assured and yell VERY loud if things are not what I was led to believe....

I hear you Ian, and I am sorry to hear you are out of work. I've had 2 companies in less than 3 years fold under me so I sympathize, as a matter of fact we pretty much had to sell our house and go back to apartment living due to the loss of income and the huge pay cut I took to even have an opportunity to go back to work.

One of my primary job functions is to outsource manufacturing operations overseas or wherever it's cheapest to do. Every major company in America today has people doing what I do to keep the profits soaring and the shareholders happy, there is no long term concern for American workers since all of us just sit around and live off our investments. :rolleyes:

The new phrase of the 2000's is Global Sourcing. :rolleyes:

What's really sad is that in most cases jobs could stay here if US corporations would lower the bar for their profit margins and stop wasting so much money on the 5% of the staff consuming 90% of the profits. Before you roll your eyes, in my actual experience it's true.

I actually feed current US suppliers the numbers they need to hit to continue to do business with me, and while the numbers typically represent a reduction in their current pricing structure they almost always could manage to keep the business here if they would look at the big picture and do the work for less.

Unfortunately many of them take the stance that "I'm going to make 25% margin or I'm going to make nothing at all!". Bang. They lose the business and some guy in China is happy as shit because they just took another dollar from America.

There are a few surprisingly happy endings though, I have a business associate that I have worked with for years in the contract manufacturing business, always as a large customer to him. When I took this job I called him and told him I was searching for a world class supplier to move about 3 million dollars worth of business to, we worked the numbers and he decided that he would work for 5% margins instead of 20% as he was used to just to keep the jobs in America. He's in Georgia and managed to meet Chinese costing targets, pretty impressive thinking.

What it means to him is less cash in the bank and maybe no new Jag this year but he keeps his company running and I meet my goals as well, welcome to the new world order.

Other major manufacturers from the US worked to get this business as well but guess what? Even though they carry an American name and corporate address they have all of their facilities in 3rd world countries, guess why my friend got my business?

I'm also working the same type of issues with a company in San Diego but it's been hard to convince that owner to take a lower profit but keep existing business.

Greed is what's killing this country, at all levels and within all companies.
to those who no longer care about American workers.

IAN, and others in the same boat.....There has got to be a TON of unemployed talent on XOC. Talent that perhaps could be applied with some ideas and networking?. to give an example, the Travel industry is suffering from a lack of affordable technology soloutions that are very simple to program as long as the right idea is there. I have often wanted to network and give ideas to "out of work" programmers who could easily make some bucks "inventing" desktop/database tools and resell them.

One company made a mega search engine that collected data from all the travel sites such as Travelocity Orbitz etc. and displays them with the 3 best quotes (Including airline quotes). searching 31 sites in one entry is brilliant. they are now starting to market this to travelagencies who were hit by web bookings....

I bet the handfull of regulars here who are IT/Programmers could do something with their sparetime that could have an impact and create an idea that would yield a future.....

just a thought.

Good idea. I bet we could get some guys in New Delhi to write the application dirt cheap...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigYella:
[QB]

Every major company in America today has people doing what I do to keep the profits soaring and the shareholders happy, there is no long term concern for American workers since all of us just sit around and live off our investments. :rolleyes:

I think this is the big problem with Corp. America today. The incessant need to appease "The Street" every quarter, regardless if you are doing well as a company.

Yep. No incentives to be good citizens.

Ian - sorry to hear about troubles

Vince - nope, its not b/c they (management) weighted price implication on final product. I seen that over past few years few times, and its NEVER about how much it will cost to final customer. Its all about - how much we can charge those suckers while paying as little as possible to our workers. And what can be cheaper than shoving shit off to some oversea country with very low salary?

Allow me to roll things back in time a little bit. Living back then in Russia, I used to work for Sun back in 90th, when Sun was nearly pioneering outsorcing of IT (except for Motorolla & Ireland, but its different story), and entire thing was supervised PERSONALLY by former Secretary of Defense, whatever his name was , in father Bush administration. We been paid beans in comparition to what guys being earning here, but eventually salaries did grow to certain level, where it was darn competitive, as more and more companies started to flow in, searching for good brains and cheap labor. Demand defined certain level, where it wasnt as cheap anymore. So eyes were moving to Israel, but then nearly 60% income tax (yeah and we are whining about taxes here... but then Russian has fixed 13% ) forced them away, and then to India...

Then end of 90th and 2000 - $hit hit the fan, and all hell broke loose. Whoever was in IT by that time can remember TONS (literally) of chineese and indian "programmers" that all the sudden flooded market with their fake or very poorly baked BA in CS. To much of my disgust there been certain portion of russians who were after those "easy" money too. At that time i was here and i had to work with certain numbers of them - was fucking horrible. Net admins who had no freakin idea what they doing, programmers that cant think behind textbooks or not aware about very trivial algorithms and principles.. But there was overblown demand, and so salaries were skyrocketing (friend of mine, really good sysadmin used to make 200+K/year on his contracts back then), and management did increase their salaries as well to not allow simple workers to get more than..

Then bubble bursted. First wave of flushing took some of good people, but mostly took lots of garbage with it (our company was employing then, and i had to review some of resumes and do some of hiring inteviews.. So i know what it did look like - yickes). Then second and third waves - money didnt flow in much, contracts were tight, but most of big cheeses tried to keep their salaries on same level (and still do) but removing workforce instead.

Then idea of outsorcing came in play again, and of course "someone know someone who had positive experience with outsourcing it to India" - and all the hell broke loose. In my company - we had that lovely experience back in 2000, so we know better now, but lots of "management" out there still see it as valid business solution to keep overblown salaries for themselves and hire 100 people in Kalkutta to make job as 10 people will do here. But it doesnt work that way - there must be some good companies there, but i seen only ones that SUCK big time.

So hang on there, guys. My believe is that in the end of current financial year most of companies will go back to hiring local people and small software companies, as they will count losses from that "smart" outsourcing.

I was not kidding...

That's why you get 2 degrees... :p
In all seriousness, I have found it's better to stick with a small company. You're much more valuable there and unless you just flat out suck, you'll be able to hold the job.

On another note, can anyone beat my record? 4 jobs in one year!

Claus - care to elaborate?

One Word, networking. Bounce ideas around, complie the available talent see where it leads. The example I gave above with the mega travel search engine was created by un-employed guys who pooled talent together. They are charging $1500 set up fee and a monthly per terminal fee of $100, with our franchise organisation just signing up 423 offices with average 3-6 terminals you do the math.

C

And each and one of those sites (namely Delta.com, AA.com, Orbitz, Travelnow, Expedia, Travelocity and others) so far has thing about ownership of content. So those guys might be in serious trouble once big folkz would care to put some muscles in...

But in a way you right - there is certain number of things to do, and some of them can bring certain number of money into pockets

My biggest peeve is with the technology sector.

HP is bleeding money and outsourcing everything, yet they continue to R&D a new printer almost every week.
My HP 722C Deskjet and 1200 Laserjet print just the same as the latest 10 printers to come out of HP, and they're 5 years old.
Every new printer is a new design, that means new parts, new molds for injection, new everything. What a waste of money. I could make that company profitable in a year just by cancelling 90% of their projects.

Why does Intel keep making CPUs faster when my CPU spends 99% of its time idle ? 3Ghz is fast enough for anyone to do anything for the next decade, but they continue to burn cash making them 5% faster just to make the next sale to gamers who are only a small portion of the market.

Look at CD-ROM/DVD-ROM drives. Every week someone has something newer and faster, when the benefit is so insigificant.
I have a 12X CD-ROM drive that is faster than my 48X CD-ROM drive because it spins up to speed so much faster.

Dell makes 7 different lines of notebook computers and 5 lines of desktops. Shouldn't they offer one notebook and one desktop that do it all ? They could offer more to the customer by reducing R&D by an enormous amount.

Do we really need yet another cool looking cell phone every month ? Nokia should sell one phone, and one phone only that does everything.

Arg...

At least I have 2 job prospects, something I haven't had in a long time. That along with all the side work I do would make me a happier person

3 times now I have been asked to fix shitty software from India. It cost the client more, but they would have saved money had they come to me in the first place.
I have yet to see anything positive come from outsourcing work to a cheaper developer.

I just got a call from another creditor, but I couldn't make out anything he was saying, so I told him to have an American call me back on a land line.

Cool.

Here\'s my talent...

Speaking of mortgage companies, Citimortgage sucks. They bought out my mortgage from the company I've had for 6 years. Never been late on a payment. During the switchover, they "lost" my payment. They turned it in to all the credit reporting agencies. "BAM" I'm screwed now. I've spent the last two months fighting it and trying to get it removed. Citimortgage says, "whatever,. it's not our fault".

Let these companies keep outsourcing. They are eventually going to screw themselves. By outsourcing all of these jobs, they are effectively destroying the middle class that buys their products. Who’s going to buy their merchandise when no one has the money to do so? Their outlook, in my opinion, is fatally short term.

Fucking A right Ian, I am currently unemployed because Accenture decided that my job could be done from you guessed it. India!!! Well, I had a great interview yesterday with Consol Energy so hopefully..........

Dear Ian,

How about you stop buying CD-ROM drives and use the money to pay your mortgage?

I haven't bought new computer hardware in a year. My systems are far from state of the art.

I have to deal with Accenture each and every day and guess what? I can't understand them or their emails.

I think I will be outsourced by year end. I just love outsourcing companys outsourcing.

Xoc and other are right. The big wigs want things cheaper, so they go for the lowest bid. Does not make it right at all. My father reviewed building contracts as a civil engineer for the military. He always accepted the bid that middle of the road. Not the worst, not the best.
Dan

http://www.newtechusa.com/ppi/pressroom.asp#higher

Here is the problem solver for all your outsoursing needs
much cheaper in salary
dont need huge houses
and eat only bannanas

Damn! I'm a ape

We're all apes . . .

Nope.

My bad. Thought homo sapiens were tied to the apes classification. I guess not.

We are still animals, though, right?

As a Civil Engineer your father had a responsibility to choose the most responsible low bid. If Civil Engineering projects always chose the "lowest" bid then bridges and buildings would be falling everywhere from substantard work. The risk is too great to choose a contractor solely on price.

I suppose when peoples lives are not at stake (like operating a phone bank), then going with the lowest bid is a pretty low risk.

Graham.... If you were in any way related to an ape .... Don't you think you would at least have hair on your head. You would also not be such a weakling and you would be able to lift something more than a # 2 pencil.

When you see apes put powder on their heads to cut down on sunlight glare... then maybe you could be on to something.

Bored?

Yep, animals.

Both homo sapiens and apes are primates and mammals.
At least according to Darwin, which never actually been completely prooven (before you start kick me in arse for that - no i am serious. "missing element" never been discovered, altough they like to think overwise - there is no real proof. And no - certain common points arent prooving anything, example: pigs liver in fact can replace humans liver without much problem, but somehow nobody claims that pigs are close relative to MOST of humans )

My former company is up there. (FastForward, Inc.) Bunch of Fucks.

Holy crap talk about getting personal...

You think so? That's personal? I thought it was public knowledge. It's what people in Texas are saying.

The initial concern of this thread is something that my wife and I discuss alot. Being that we are in the furniture capital of America, we are seeing firsthand the overzealous sending of jobs oversees.

I am of the mind return to a certain level of isolationism is necessary for our future. Sure things would be tough as jobs were pulled back to domestic centers, and resultant prices rose to accomodate the increased operational expenditures. But eventually a natural balance would be hit as more jobs became available domestically, and more people's quality of life improved.

I know that this is an extremely simplified scenario, but it is representative of what I believe needs to happen on some level to revive our domestic economy. Sending jobs to China, India, Mexico, etc., etc., is doing nothing for the people here at home. Who cares if their local Wal-mart can carry a cheaper version of the widgett because it is made oversees, when the now laid off domestic widgett maker can't afford it because he know longer has a job?

Well, considering we don't share 98+% genetically with pigs, like we do with apes...

No jobs in one year? and I still have the Xterra, Rover, and wife.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Ian. My suggestion, get into a burgeoning industry, find the company that is at it's core, and get a job, any job. Getting in the door is the key, once you are in, showing them your skillset will get you into the RIGHT position.

Worth a shot.

Kind of like the DotCom industry ?
The cloning industry ?

There are no burgeoning industries.

Invest in call centers in India.

I hear that market is taking off . . .

Next month will be 15 years at my current job. We have 27 employees.

YEP, Big companies suck for most all reasons imaginable and worse, reasons un-imaginable. Good for the typically, apathetic lazy a-Holes that make up the majority of the world. Many consider big companies to be "safe and secure"....What a joke, Give me a break.

Congrats on so long in one job...A rarity in this day and time.

Jeez Ian, that's an impressive resume. To be quite honest, it puzzles me as to why you can't seem to find a job.

Do you not play nicely with others?

My skill set is too varied and people don't believe I do all that shit. No one thinks a programmer can design graphics, or that a graphic artist can write code.

ebags.com interviewed me last week. They've been trying to fill a position for 3 months that was basically me, code/html/graphic design/IT/database. It went well and I'm waiting for a verdict.

I also have an interview tomorrow for a security company. They needed 2 people, a web designer, and a VB programmer with multimedia/DirectX experience. I recommended they combine the positions into one, and they agreed.

Wish me luck

Okay ... good luck.
If accepted... you did get the week of August 31st off... right.

Good luck Ian.

And yeah there is possibility to be "overqualified" in that industry.

Good luck Ian. Next time my company needs a website designed/coded, I'll run your contact info up the flagpole!

I've been fortunate to be a "big fish" in a "small market." One of the things that helps is that I can shoot network quality video, and edit just as well. In St. Louis, the nearest major market, I would be one of dozens of shooters capable of that kind of work. In Hollywood, I'd probably be considered a beginner. But these big market people usually specialize in just one area (editing, videography, animation, audio). The fact that I can do multiple jobs, moderately to very well, makes me more valuable to the company I work for. (That doesn't mean that the owner won't freak out and can me next week, but it means he'll have a hell of a time trying to replace me.) I'm also continuing my education. The more you learn and diversify, the better your chances of successfully weathering an economic downturn.

Good luck everyone, (I'll probably be on the street next week. :rolleyes: )

I prefer the term "well-qualified" better than "over-qualified" The latter is just an instrument to say "you're not the one".

Having a Phd and wanting to sell ice-cream out of a van, now that's "over-qualified" IMO. Having several skills within a particular vocation, is a bonus. Not over-qualification to me. I wish some of the people working with us could do most of the shit they claim when they are hired on.

I'm thankful to have a good job, and I do wish you luck on finding the job that's good for you.

Remember,

No Noogies
No Swearing
Do not stare at pictures on Desk uttering "Nice tits"
Wash arm pits, the smell of hot Bologna is a turn off.
Do not use words like: Radical, Rightious, and Fochizzle
Do not start the interview by yelling "Objection" or "Move to strike"

Thought this was an interesting editorial. Not necessarily my views, I think we should increase the amount of "Buy American" percentages.

USA Today Editorial

Buy american as we sit on a message board dedicated to a vehicle produced by a foriegn company :rolleyes:

It's a global economy kids - just like the article points out.

The days of us rolling up into a cacoon and ignoring the rest of the world are over - we need trading partners.

So what if the shit jobs are moving overseas? If you are in a shit industry, better yourself, take the salary with it and move up.

As my grandfather was fond of saying "don't wait for the roast duck to fly into your mouth"....

Well, the Xterra is built in the US, creating US Jobs, first of all.. And the Buy American from the article is pertaining to defense items, and since I work in the defense industry, its in my best interest for the government to Buy American.

And even though I work in the Defense Industry, I get to pick and choose pretty much what I want to work on. I would not work on any missle programs or any fighter programs (I had an offer to work on the Joint Strike Fighter, which admittedly would have been a lot 'cooler' than what I am working on now).. I work on intelligence programs that help keep our troops safer, and hopefully our homeland safer, I can't control how the government uses the info unfortunately, just do the best I can to help provide it.