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#210656 - 28/07/06 09:04 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[b]MM, you know you are like a brother to me but sometimes the party line sounds a lot like something out of Germany in the 30's.

Edited to add...not that there isn't some truth to what you say.
What the hell are you talking about?

Clarify what you said. (or are you just being your usual troll self)[/b]
Not trolling I promise. I always admit when I am fishing.

Take all the atrocities out of the equation, nationalistic pride can sound the same weather it be from Nazi Germany or the USA. Again I am not making a comparison for right or wrong but the words are very similar. Again not saying you or the right or what ever is comparable to the Nazi party but the rah rah of national pride sounds very simialr.

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#210657 - 28/07/06 09:07 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


FlyFishingX - I could not agree more about iran. Even the people that were in North America from there were all forced out because of the democratic movement of the time... there would have been a lot of support for that...

However, it would have also left Saddam in power, ready to invade Iran... so it would still have been complicated.

Regarding tactics that terrorists use... they are a disease attacking (something akin to a flu virus) ... we have to fight them like a disease. You cannot go around destroying whole organs because of it.

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#210658 - 28/07/06 09:07 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:

You guys are completely obfuscating what Madman is saying. He hasn't once said "kill 'em all." He's no Nazi. [Save the fine unicorns]
Do you want me to start calling you a Vichy collaborator?? Yes, that would absurd, but less so than calling him a Nazi.
Thank You. I wasn't going to respond to SE4X4 because I think she clearly has a detachment from reality. She most certainly has a detachment from what is actually written in this thread.

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#210659 - 28/07/06 09:10 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
Again not saying you or the right or what ever is comparable to the Nazi party but the rah rah of national pride sounds very simialr.
That is pure horseshit. How much do you know about Nazi Germany? Apparently nothing. Some of you are just parroting inflammatory rhetoric through an ad hominen attack in order to avoid actually engaging him on the issues.

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#210660 - 28/07/06 09:16 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:

[b]You guys are completely obfuscating what Madman is saying. He hasn't once said "kill 'em all." He's no Nazi. [Save the fine unicorns]
Do you want me to start calling you a Vichy collaborator?? Yes, that would absurd, but less so than calling him a Nazi.
Thank You. I wasn't going to respond to SE4X4 because I think she clearly has a detachment from reality. She most certainly has a detachment from what is actually written in this thread.[/b]
Actually, what he has said is not very clear then... because all I hear from him is how stupid everyone else is! In fact I asked a simple question of what side he was on? no response. Before that I stated that he must be agreeing with all the 'kill them all' sentiments, again no response... what is a reasonable person to assume are his opinions then?

He really is not saying much - except to insult everyone that says anything contradictory to himself.

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#210661 - 28/07/06 09:17 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by SE4X4:
Regarding tactics that terrorists use... they are a disease attacking (something akin to a flu virus) ... we have to fight them like a disease. You cannot go around destroying whole organs because of it.
Agreed, except that many of the religious leaders are indeed "organs" that need to destroyed. What they need is a heart transplant to save the blood, using your train of logic. Obviously a lot of blood is lost in such an operation.

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#210662 - 28/07/06 09:21 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by SE4X4:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:

[b]You guys are completely obfuscating what Madman is saying. He hasn't once said "kill 'em all." He's no Nazi. [Save the fine unicorns]
Do you want me to start calling you a Vichy collaborator?? Yes, that would absurd, but less so than calling him a Nazi.
Thank You. I wasn't going to respond to SE4X4 because I think she clearly has a detachment from reality. She most certainly has a detachment from what is actually written in this thread.[/b]
Actually, what he has said is not very clear then... because all I hear from him is how stupid everyone else is! In fact I asked a simple question of what side he was on? no response. Before that I stated that he must be agreeing with all the 'kill them all' sentiments, again no response... what is a reasonable person to assume are his opinions then?

He really is not saying much - except to insult everyone that says anything contradictory to himself.[/b]
This is the first political thread that you have participated in here. I have been in on a few more, so all I will say is that agree with him or not, Madman is intelligent and backs his opinions with solid arguments and evidence.
From what I see, you simply don't like what he says and how he says it, so you paint him into an artificial "side" that makes him easy to categorize for your argumentative purposes.
Oh, and some of the questions that you have asked him do not merit a response. No offense, you asked.

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#210663 - 28/07/06 09:26 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[b]MM, you know you are like a brother to me but sometimes the party line sounds a lot like something out of Germany in the 30's.

Edited to add...not that there isn't some truth to what you say.
What the hell are you talking about?

Clarify what you said. (or are you just being your usual troll self)[/b]
Not trolling I promise. I always admit when I am fishing.

Take all the atrocities out of the equation, nationalistic pride can sound the same weather it be from Nazi Germany or the USA. Again I am not making a comparison for right or wrong but the words are very similar. Again not saying you or the right or what ever is comparable to the Nazi party but the rah rah of national pride sounds very simialr.[/b]
You are arguing a completely ridiculous notion. What you are in essence saying is that national pride is some type of bad thing. To compare national pride with what one nation did in the 20th century is bizarre. It also shows an ignorance of what went on in Europe post WWI and the overall psyche of the German people during that period of time.

The anti-national pride line of propaganda ignores the many good things that have arisen out of it.

Internationalists despise national pride. Karl Marx despised national pride.

Is Australians loving their country wrong? Is Iranians loving their country wrong? Is Japanese loving their country wrong? Is French loving their country wrong? No, of course not. To certain people it's only wrong when Americans love their country. [Freak]

Whenever someone dismisses the notion of national pride as being a bad thing, it's usually a "tell" to a certain type of political idealogy.

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#210664 - 28/07/06 09:32 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Big Daddy Chia Offline
Member

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 4442
Loc: Austin, TX
It sounds like a peanuts cartoon in here.
_________________________
Scott "Chia" Holland
"God created man. Sam Colt made them equal"

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#210665 - 28/07/06 09:34 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
MADMAN IS NOT A NAZI, But a proud American with different views than most, which is freedom of speach at it's best.
_________________________
Sharam can have my sister

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#210666 - 28/07/06 09:36 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Refer back to my post on page 25.

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#210667 - 28/07/06 09:43 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Crap, I am not trying to stir this thing up.

I am honestly asking questions.

I think nationalistic pride is a good thing but as with anything else if taken to extreme can turn into a bad thing. I am proud to be American, I am proud that I served my country, I am proud that our country can be one of the worlds greatest sources of aid in times of need.

I don't know how to make this any clearer. The words

Rah Rah USA sound just like Rah Rah USSR or Rah Rah Germany not the actions just the words.

Flyfisher the only thing I know about Nazi Germany is what my Mother, Grand Mother, Great Uncle, Uncle, Aunt have told me and the we bit I have read on the subject and seen on the discovery channel.

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#210668 - 28/07/06 09:49 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
Flyfisher the only thing I know about Nazi Germany is what my Mother, Grand Mother, Great Uncle, Uncle, Aunt have told me and the we bit I have read on the subject and seen on the discovery channel.
My mother's side of the family endured Nazi occupation in Denmark and participated in the resistence, including smuggling Jews across the sound to Sweden. I am very sensitive on this subject, so I bristle when people throw around "Nazi this, "Nazi that" on current events.

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#210669 - 28/07/06 09:56 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
No worries, Mom's side of the family all German's she became a citizen in 1994. My great uncle was Rommel's driver in Africa, my grand father was killed during the war but not sure how. I believe it was on the eastern front but the story is sketchy. My mother fled the Russians as they were coming into Bonn so not to be raped only to be straffed crossing the Rhine at night.

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#210670 - 28/07/06 10:01 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
OH and Madman post some more pic's in the phat chick thread. Your submission last week was outstanding.

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#210671 - 28/07/06 10:02 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:

I am proud that our country can be one of the worlds greatest sources of aid in times of need.
Not only can be... it is on a daily basis. No other nation on earth does more for other people of other nations. No people on earth are as generous as Americans.

That should be a great source of pride for you.

Quote:
Rah Rah USA sound just like Rah Rah USSR or Rah Rah Germany not the actions just the words.
I think that sounds irrational.

You're a glass is half empty kind of guy... aren't you?

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#210672 - 28/07/06 10:05 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
my grand father was killed during the war but not sure how. I believe it was on the eastern front but the story is sketchy.
The regular German army (Wehrmacht) actually committed relatively few war crimes. It's the SS and SA where all the sickos gravitated.
Every time I walk into a bookstore it pisses me off to see 85% of the German history books are about the Nazis and Holocaust. As if that's the only contribution that Germans have made to the world. :rolleyes:

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#210673 - 28/07/06 10:12 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:

[b]I am proud that our country can be one of the worlds greatest sources of aid in times of need.
Not only can be... it is on a daily basis. No other nation on earth does more for other people of other nations. No people on earth are as generous as Americans.

That should be a great source of pride for you.

Quote:
Rah Rah USA sound just like Rah Rah USSR or Rah Rah Germany not the actions just the words.
I think that sounds irrational.

You're a glass is half empty kind of guy... aren't you?[/b]
Actually I am more a "are you going to drink that" kind of guy.

In person I am a very up beat kind of person. I try and live life at full volume. I guess the only person on here that has spent time with me is babyx and I think she would agree that my love of life is pretty infectious. Not sure that it comes through on an message board.

The worlds problems do bother me and the search for answers is something I enjoy.

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#210674 - 28/07/06 10:14 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[b] my grand father was killed during the war but not sure how. I believe it was on the eastern front but the story is sketchy.
The regular German army (Wehrmacht) actually committed relatively few war crimes. It's the SS and SA where all the sickos gravitated.
Every time I walk into a bookstore it pisses me off to see 85% of the German history books are about the Nazis and Holocaust. As if that's the only contribution that Germans have made to the world. :rolleyes: [/b]
I agree and wonder why that is?

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#210675 - 28/07/06 10:43 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[b] my grand father was killed during the war but not sure how. I believe it was on the eastern front but the story is sketchy.
The regular German army (Wehrmacht) actually committed relatively few war crimes. It's the SS and SA where all the sickos gravitated.
Every time I walk into a bookstore it pisses me off to see 85% of the German history books are about the Nazis and Holocaust. As if that's the only contribution that Germans have made to the world. :rolleyes: [/b]
I agree and wonder why that is?[/b]
Because the act itself was so horrorific. I have been to treblinka, let me tell you it is a somber experience. My grandfather was a cop in Copenhagen and ended up in a German labor camp, He never spoke about it and we did not ask.
_________________________
Sharam can have my sister

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#210676 - 28/07/06 10:52 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Claus:
I have been to treblinka, let me tell you it is a somber experience. My grandfather was a cop in Copenhagen and ended up in a German labor camp, He never spoke about it and we did not ask.
Yeah. I've been to Mauthausen and Dachau. I broke down at Mauthausen. These powerful emotions just overtook me. You would only understand if you've visited a camp. Horrible.

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#210677 - 28/07/06 11:01 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
To me it is unimaginable that humans can do that to other humans.

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#210678 - 28/07/06 11:29 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyFishingX:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[b] my grand father was killed during the war but not sure how. I believe it was on the eastern front but the story is sketchy.
The regular German army (Wehrmacht) actually committed relatively few war crimes. It's the SS and SA where all the sickos gravitated.
Every time I walk into a bookstore it pisses me off to see 85% of the German history books are about the Nazis and Holocaust. As if that's the only contribution that Germans have made to the world. :rolleyes: [/b]
I agree and wonder why that is?[/b]
It's more than just the horrific acts. People are interested in the horrific acts committed by the Nazi's, but the fascination goes beyond that. (The Chinese and Russians killed more people than the Nazi's, yet their atrocities don't generate the same interest).

Beyond the facts of Nazi atrocities, people are also interested in the rise of post WWI Germany.

After the war, they were a completely beaten and bankrupt country. The Treaty of Versailles beat them down even further. Yet in a very short span of a few years they rose to be one of the most powerful nations on earth. Literally one step from European domination and who knows where it would have went beyond that. The atrocities would have also followed.

A little known fact of Nazi Germany is the role played by Muslims. One of the most welcomed guests in Berlin during Nazi Germany was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. After the Nazi's conquered Europe, the plans were for the eradication of all Jews in the Middle East with the help of the Grand Mufti and Muslim Nazi collaborators and allies.

There were several Muslim divisons of the Waffen SS. One of the most infamous was the 13th Waffen SS Division in the Balkans.

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#210679 - 28/07/06 11:55 AM Re: Lebanon and Israel
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

After the war, they were a completely beaten and bankrupt country. The Treaty of Versailles beat them down even further. Yet in a very short span of a few years they rose to be one of the most powerful nations on earth. Literally one step from European domination and who knows where it would have went beyond that. The atrocities would have also followed.
Stopping before the atrocities and the invasion of other countries does that make Hitler a great leader as opposed to someone like Pol Pot who destroyed their country?

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#210680 - 28/07/06 12:11 PM Re: Lebanon and Israel
socalpunx Offline
Member

Registered: 24/08/01
Posts: 6327
Loc: The land of losers and liberal...
All this crap and no one has acknowledged the one reality of the Iraq/Lebanon/Iran/Israel situation:

It can't be stopped.

It can be slowed down. You can create temporary cease fires now and then. but the likelyhood is that it cannot be stopped. There aren't enough soldiers and guns and bombs to stop a thought. Radical Islam as existed in some form or another for thousands of years and it will continue to exist for thousands of years. You cannot kill a thought.

And the thought is that Jesus and Israel are bad and Mohmaad and Mecca are good. As long as that thought exists, there are people who have no desire to live in some sort of harmonious utopia that will continue to shoot and kill and bomb those that they consider their enemy forever.

We have so far, since 9/11 only been able to scratch the surface of what is out there. Have we even eliminated Islamic extremism in Afghanistan? No. The Taliban is regrouping in the hills and inhabiting outlying towns and buying their time. We haven't even been able to chase radical Islam out of a little shihole n othing country that we claim to controll.

Will we ever be able to controll the presence of radical Islam in Iraq? The answer is no. Iran? Never? And then what? We land troops in Jakarta?

So once that is done, and we have spend the next 75 years chasing radical Islam all over the globe and we still haven't touched Africa of which more than 50% of Northern Africa is Muslim. Then what?

You guys are lost in comparing the Nazis to radical Islam. In WWII there were borders. There was a defined enemy. We knew who the enemy was and what he was wearing. We knew what language he was speaing and what weapons he was using. We knew him because he was fighting for his country and so were we.

Who is the enemy now? What does he look like? What is he wearing and what are his tactics and weapons? We don't know because he is hiding and changing and evolving. And because he is everywhere. The Germans were beaten because the rest of the world united to defend their land and their borders.

This borderless war with a faceless enemy canot be won. We can continue to celebrate small skirmishes and post the names and faces of their "leaders" that we've captured. But their personell will continue to step up into their place. But you cannot kill them all because you do not know who "they" are.

As long as there are radical Muslims somewhere in the world, this "war" will never cease.
_________________________
If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. - Vice President James Danforth "Dan" Quayle

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