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#212425 - 12/06/03 12:30 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
NY Madman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

I like the fact you use the word probably, care to back up those comments?. I would love to know more about where and how those HQ's operate?.
Don't you read your newspapers up there? Hezbollah has a huge operation up there. It was all over your papers a few months back because there was a big debate in your Parliament whether to outlaw them. Most of the sick radical leftists in your government didn't want to do it. They thought it was "intolerant" and "bias" against Arabs. Imagine that. Arguing against banning a major terrorist organization because it would be culturally insensative.

Finally sanity prevailed and they are technically outlawed now. Whether your government is enforcing this or clamping down on their fund raising activities is another issue. I hope they are but who knows. The leftist PC insanity is much worse up there in Canada then it is down here.

There are numerous Arab charities in Canada with ties to terrorism. Our government asked yours to shut some down. I doubt they did it though. Canada has not been very cooperative in the many terrorist investigations since 9/11. Canada is a great place to set up shop if you want to raise money for terrorism. It's so PC up there no one would dare to ask any questions. Every Middle Eastern Studies program in all your major universities are packed with fund raising professors and terrorist enablers (a lot of ours too). Concordia University immediately comes to mind. Anti-semitism and Palestinian support is the rule at that place.

Run some searches on The National Post. You'll find some stuff if the articles have not been purged now that they have turned into a typical liberal newspaper

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#212426 - 12/06/03 12:43 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
XOC Offline
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Posts: 17103
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Quote:
Originally posted by Uzbad:
People have right to stand for their beliefs 8)
People need to realize their beliefs are complete bullshit and cause nothing but death and suffering.
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#212427 - 12/06/03 12:51 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
ashleynatlanta Offline
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Registered: 05/12/00
Posts: 1742
Loc: Birmingham, AL
If this world ends tomorrow, it won't be because of economic differences. Or oil. Or because of the second coming of Christ, Budda, whoever.

It will be because of "organized religion".

I disagree that all beliefs are bad. If it weren't for belief and faith, why even bother going on? But why kill over it?

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#212428 - 12/06/03 12:53 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

I like the fact you use the word probably, care to back up those comments?. I would love to know more about where and how those HQ's operate?.
Don't you read your newspapers up there? Hezbollah has a huge operation up there. It was all over your papers a few months back because there was a big debate in your Parliament whether to outlaw them. Most of the sick radical leftists in your government didn't want to do it. They thought it was "intolerant" and "bias" against Arabs. Imagine that. Arguing against banning a major terrorist organization because it would be culturally insensative.

Finally sanity prevailed and they are technically outlawed now. Whether your government is enforcing this or clamping down on their fund raising activities is another issue. I hope they are but who knows. The leftist PC insanity is much worse up there in Canada then it is down here.

There are numerous Arab charities in Canada with ties to terrorism. Our government asked yours to shut some down. I doubt they did it though. Canada has not been very cooperative in the many terrorist investigations since 9/11. Canada is a great place to set up shop if you want to raise money for terrorism. It's so PC up there no one would dare to ask any questions. Every Middle Eastern Studies program in all your major universities are packed with fund raising professors and terrorist enablers (a lot of ours too). Concordia University immediately comes to mind. Anti-semitism and Palestinian support is the rule at that place.

Run some searches on The National Post. You'll find some stuff if the articles have not been purged now that they have turned into a typical liberal newspaper
Believe me they have started clamping down. I only read the Globe and Mail beside our local rags.Concordia should be shut down anyways.

Speaking of Racists heres one for ya : Aboriginal leader Charged

Finally a proof that the laws in Canada are working.
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#212429 - 12/06/03 01:17 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Samueul Offline
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Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 4114
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. USA
Quote:
Originally posted by ashleynatlanta:
If it weren't for belief and faith, why even bother going on?
Because I am. Therefore I will spend my days, filling my family and loved ones with as much happiness and support that I can muster until I finally fizzle out and expire. I need no faiths or beliefs apart from the confidence of my own being to sustain me in that endeavor. What fuels that desire? Something as simple as an acknowledgement or smile of apreciation(sp) from a loved one, or the return of happiness and support from a loved one. That's all the fuel I need.
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#212430 - 12/06/03 01:19 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
XOC Offline
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Yeah, what Samueul said.
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#212431 - 12/06/03 01:24 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
KJ_dragon Offline
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Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by xoc:
Quote:
Originally posted by Uzbad:
[b]People have right to stand for their beliefs 8)
People need to realize their beliefs are complete bullshit and cause nothing but death and suffering.[/b]
That's a pretty broad generalization. Those same beliefs spawned organizations like the Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and schools like Harvard and Yale. Also, don't forget the YMCA [Freak] .

I am not an expert on Islam, but anyone who studied Christianity knows that its main focus revolves around love and the "golden rule". Those idiots over there fighting are not prime examples of their religion and should not be used to base a judgement on all who believe - because they obviously have missed the point.
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#212432 - 12/06/03 01:37 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

Speaking of Racists heres one for ya : Aboriginal leader Charged

Finally a proof that the laws in Canada are working.
Actually that article is proof that Canada is turning into a sick society. I don't think that guy should be charged with a crime. What is wrong with Canada? You now have "thought crimes". What the guy said was fucked up but it should not warrant a criminal prosecution. The offending parties should try to bring civil litigation if they feel they have a case. Criminal prosecution for something a guy said in a speech is wrong. No matter how fucked up his comments may be.

I guess there is no such thing as freedom of speech in Canada. Show me some instances of Canada prosecuting Muslims for the hate they spew on a daily basis. I'm sure you can't. Canada won't do it. They seem to be practicing selective prosecution of their insane thought crimes laws. If the guy were a Muslim they would have deemed that hating Jews is part of his culture and they would have looked the other way and done nothing.

I think people do have a right to say anything they want. Even if it is hateful. It is up to society to shun them and if the lines are crossed into slander or liable then bring civil litigation. Never criminal prosecution for something someone says ....that is wrong.

Canada is slowly turning into a sick leftist totalitarian state.

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#212433 - 12/06/03 01:37 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
XOC Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
That's a pretty broad generalization. Those same beliefs spawned organizations like the Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and schools like Harvard and Yale. Also, don't forget the YMCA [Freak] .
You can build 2 schools and 2 charities without a god too.

Go search Google for 'scandal' and 'Red Cross' or 'Harvard' or 'Yale' for some fun reading.
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#212434 - 12/06/03 01:38 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Mobycat Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
That's a pretty broad generalization. Those same beliefs spawned organizations like the Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and schools like Harvard and Yale.
I agree that's how the Salvation Army started...but how did that spawn the International Red Cross?
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"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212435 - 12/06/03 01:40 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
RedX Offline

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Registered: 25/04/01
Posts: 2394
Loc: Granite Falls, NC
Quote:
Originally posted by Samueul:
Quote:
Originally posted by ashleynatlanta:
If it weren't for belief and faith, why even bother going on?
Because I am. Therefore I will spend my days, filling my family and loved ones with as much happiness and support that I can muster until I finally fizzle out and expire. I need no faiths or beliefs apart from the confidence of my own being to sustain me in that endeavor. What fuels that desire? Something as simple as an acknowledgement or smile of apreciation(sp) from a loved one, or the return of happiness and support from a loved one. That's all the fuel I need.
Great statement there, Samuel. Probably one of the more insightful things said here in a while.

These folks are going to continue doing what they are doing to each other. Some of the greatest conflicts in mankind's history have been over ideolical differences. This one is no different.

Thank you, Samuel, for reminding me, at least, what is important.

laugh
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#212436 - 12/06/03 01:41 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

Speaking of Racists heres one for ya : Aboriginal leader Charged

Finally a proof that the laws in Canada are working.
Actually that article is proof that Canada is turning into a sick society. I don't think that guy should be charged with a crime. What is wrong with Canada? You now have "thought crimes". What the guy said was fucked up but it should not warrant a criminal prosecution. The offending parties should try to bring civil litigation if they feel they have a case. Criminal prosecution for something a guy said in a speech is wrong. No matter how fucked up his comments may be.
This I agree with. The guy is an idiot. But he should have the right to say it.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212437 - 12/06/03 01:45 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Uhh guys.....

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is more political then religious.

Another thing... Yes Islam is a religion. I would not consider it an "organized" religion. There is no central authority as in most western religions.

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#212438 - 12/06/03 01:48 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
KJ_dragon Offline
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Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
[b]That's a pretty broad generalization. Those same beliefs spawned organizations like the Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and schools like Harvard and Yale.
I agree that's how the Salvation Army started...but how did that spawn the International Red Cross?[/b]
Source for Red Cross
Source for Yale.
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#212439 - 12/06/03 01:52 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

Speaking of Racists heres one for ya : Aboriginal leader Charged

Finally a proof that the laws in Canada are working.
Actually that article is proof that Canada is turning into a sick society. I don't think that guy should be charged with a crime. What is wrong with Canada? You now have "thought crimes". What the guy said was fucked up but it should not warrant a criminal prosecution. The offending parties should try to bring civil litigation if they feel they have a case. Criminal prosecution for something a guy said in a speech is wrong. No matter how fucked up his comments may be.
This I agree with. The guy is an idiot. But he should have the right to say it.[/b]
Nope I disagree, a man in his position should not get away with uttering shit like that, I am comfortable with a law that protects us from people trying to get their message through by spreading hate towards others due to race or religion.
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#212440 - 12/06/03 01:54 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by xoc:
Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
[b]That's a pretty broad generalization. Those same beliefs spawned organizations like the Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and schools like Harvard and Yale. Also, don't forget the YMCA [Freak] .
You can build 2 schools and 2 charities without a god too.

Go search Google for 'scandal' and 'Red Cross' or 'Harvard' or 'Yale' for some fun reading.[/b]
I wasn't saying that you needed to believe in God to found those organizations. I was saying that Christians founded those organizations. That certainly could contradict your generalization that their beliefs "cause nothing but death and suffering". On the contray, those same beliefs also provide alot of humanitarian aid to the needy.

I am not saying that you are wrong. I happen to agree that many of the conflicts in the history of mankind were caused by a religious disagreement. I was just bringing your statement back to center.

I looked up "scandal" on google as you suggested. I did find the reading to be interesting, but I couldn't understand why you pointed it out. It seemed to me to be the normal corrupt corporate dealings, just like any other organization in the world. It didn't seem to fit in with this discussion.
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#212441 - 12/06/03 02:03 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

Nope I disagree, a man in his position should not get away with uttering shit like that, I am comfortable with a law that protects us from people trying to get their message through by spreading hate towards others due to race or religion.
You are confused Claus. There is nothing protective at all about those laws. They are RESTRICTIVE. I feel sorry for you if you think it is OK for any government to dictate what you are allowed to say. I also think it is scary as to which situations and to whom these laws are selectively applied.

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#212442 - 12/06/03 02:04 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Actually that article is proof that Canada is turning into a sick society. I don't think that guy should be charged with a crime. What is wrong with Canada? You now have "thought crimes".
What do you mean, "now?"

Ernst Zundel.

James Keegstra.

1985.

Look it up . . .
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#212443 - 12/06/03 02:17 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

What do you mean, "now?"

Ernst Zundel.

James Keegstra.

1985.

Look it up . . .
How come these Canadian laws don't apply to anyone named Mohammed?

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#212444 - 12/06/03 02:27 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
How come these Canadian laws don't apply to anyone named Mohammed?
Because Canada knows it twists your panties when we do shit like that . . .

Go rant at the neighbours some more . . .
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#212445 - 12/06/03 02:31 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

Nope I disagree, a man in his position should not get away with uttering shit like that, I am comfortable with a law that protects us from people trying to get their message through by spreading hate towards others due to race or religion.
You are confused Claus. There is nothing protective at all about those laws. They are RESTRICTIVE. I feel sorry for you if you think it is OK for any government to dictate what you are allowed to say. I also think it is scary as to which situations and to whom these laws are selectively applied.
Do not feel sorry for me, I know the Canadian Government can not dictate what I say or do. But I am aware that If I spread hate through Racism in this Country I am liable to be procsecuted. This is NOT unique to Canada, but in effect in many other countries as well. I do not find it restrictive to my freedom as I am not paranoid but choose to live in a country that stands for promoting equality for all regardless of Colour, Race,religion.

There are MANY things about the way Canada is run I do not agree with. but by large when I compare life in North America to Europe (I have lived in Denmark,Gernmany and the Netherlands) I count my blessings.
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#212446 - 12/06/03 02:35 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]How come these Canadian laws don't apply to anyone named Mohammed?
Because Canada knows it twists your panties when we do shit like that . . .

Go rant at the neighbours some more . . .[/b]
[LOL] [LOL] [LOL]
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#212447 - 12/06/03 02:38 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:

Speaking of Racists heres one for ya : Aboriginal leader Charged

Finally a proof that the laws in Canada are working.
Actually that article is proof that Canada is turning into a sick society. I don't think that guy should be charged with a crime. What is wrong with Canada? You now have "thought crimes". What the guy said was fucked up but it should not warrant a criminal prosecution. The offending parties should try to bring civil litigation if they feel they have a case. Criminal prosecution for something a guy said in a speech is wrong. No matter how fucked up his comments may be.
This I agree with. The guy is an idiot. But he should have the right to say it.[/b]
Nope I disagree, a man in his position should not get away with uttering shit like that, I am comfortable with a law that protects us from people trying to get their message through by spreading hate towards others due to race or religion.[/b]
But criminal? No way. If a man in a high position says something like that, he should be ridiculed. He should be asked to step down (Trent Lott anyone?), but not prosecuted. Nobody called for Lott to be prosecuted (no...he didn't say something that harsh). Has anyone tried to prosecute Jesse Jackson for his heimy (sp?) statement? Of course not. Has anyone tried to prosecute Fred Phelps for his inflammatory remarks (and I'd venture he makes this guy look like Mr. Rogers).

The Government can not, and should not, regulate speech.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212448 - 12/06/03 02:52 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
Claus Offline
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Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Good explanation of Canada's Hate Crime law:

URL
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#212449 - 12/06/03 02:59 PM Re: Peaceplan goes down the toilet
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:
Good explanation of Canada's Hate Crime law:

URL
There's no such thing as a good explanation of that thing . . .
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