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#212632 - 12/09/05 07:59 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by m2pro:
Since I have folks constantly checking up on this thread... I'll continue to thread jack this and switch topics.

In brief... what all does a SL do that a BL doesn't and vice versa? My thoughts are that lifts are merely so that you can afford larger diameter tires. IS that totally wrong? It doesn't seem like lifts affect the actual ground clearance because the rear ball joint still hangs low, and whatever other underpinnings there are that I'm not informed enough to know their names....

Am I wrong to assume that the clearance doesn't really go up? Or am I delusional, and incapable of seeing the ball joint going up?

(also, is it worth getting the pinstripe on my X? i have VERY little time to know about this, considering i'm picking it up tomorrow. so let me know guys and gals!) cool
the suspension lift does lift the truck 3" higher than stock, the body lift only lifts the body (hense body lift) higher than the frame, thats why in some pics on here of body lifts, you can see alot more of the frame than a stock X...the BL lets you add bigger tires...a suspension lift actually gives you more clearance off road...but thats on pre 05's..i remember seein a thread on a lifted 05 VS stock 05...and i also saw on calmini's site about a 5" lift for the 05's?

heres the link of that lifted 05, you can see the improved ground clearance on the lifted Vs the stock..

http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=002114

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#212633 - 13/09/05 06:43 AM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


The word you were looking for was differential, and the rear diff will not be raised by a suspension lift (bigger tires will get it off the ground a bit more) but on an IFS rig if you lift the front end the diff will be raised as well.

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#212634 - 13/09/05 09:35 AM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


SLR will have their lift out soon too... I'd wait on the SLR stuff, here's the frontier kit:

http://www.spencerlowracing.com/products/SLR_2005_V6_4x4_Frontier_5/

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#212635 - 13/09/05 12:19 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
MaloCS Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/02
Posts: 1212
I don't understand why anyone would try and compare these two vehicles. They are totally different and aimed at different markets. If the original poster started this thread to compare the Xterra to a Liberty or Cherokee then that would be fine. They are comparable vehicles marketed to the same demographic. To compare an Xterra to a Jeep Rubicon is asinine.

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#212636 - 13/09/05 01:06 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


My Wrangler vs Xterra Conclusion:

It's not a pointless comparison per se. My research has lead me to understand that an Xterra can be modded to perform easily in the same ballpark as a Rubicon. Modding takes money. Depending on how hardcore you are, it can cost LOTS of money.

The point, I believe is for the Xterra to be able to take you anywhere on these offroad trails you want.

Now, I see lots of pictures where folks are doing lots of cool things with their cool little Wranglers. (and they ARE badass offroaders)... but, most of the time when you see crazy pics of hardcore articulation and the such they are off the beaten path... in fact, they are hardly ever showing pictures of themselves ON the path. They're busy crawling up a rock that they'll never end up on top of to get somewhere... They're just showing off how badass they can articulate... which they can... and that's cool.

It's just that... Xterras can too after some light to heavy modding... heck, you can even add a solid front axle and some "air lockers" (which i haven't researched much about yet) IF you're so inclined.

That being said... The Xterra has a surprisingly low insurance rate [ThumbsUp] ... Wrangler insurance sux ass [ThumbsDown] . The gas is much better in an Xterra [ThumbsUp] . It can tote WAY more (as we Alabamians say) [ThumbsUp] . It can TOW more [ThumbsUp] . It's safer [ThumbsUp] . It actually has a decent interior [ThumbsUp] ... not to mention it looks way smoother [ThumbsUp] ... AND it has more power (even though weight issues could be argued for the Wrangler).

Even the stock comparison is a valid argument for the Xterra being more capable... due to the really low transfer case. That would automatically cost you big bucks to mod and fix up if you bought a rubicon.

Near par without having ever really 4x4 offroaded? *grin*

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#212637 - 13/09/05 02:51 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by MaloCS:
I don't understand why anyone would try and compare these two vehicles. They are totally different and aimed at different markets. If the original poster started this thread to compare the Xterra to a Liberty or Cherokee then that would be fine. They are comparable vehicles marketed to the same demographic. To compare an Xterra to a Jeep Rubicon is asinine.
I am with M2pro here also. I bought my 05 as my next trail rig, to replace my aging SWB Montero. Rubicon WAS a consideration for myself, but I primarily declined due to lack of space for my family on 10 day wheeling trips. And used some of his other logic. The Xterra has been marketed as a serious off-road, and sportsman vehicle, not a soccer mom vehicle. Now, due to the delicate nature and limited capabilities of a pre-05, I would have not even compared the 2 models. To me they are the same market, the key difference is LWB Vs SWB, and that is a big difference, but both can be made into trail rigs. If I were comparing to a Liberty or Grand, I would use the Pathfinder to compare myself.

How about a SWB Xterra? Hmmmmm....

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#212638 - 13/09/05 03:07 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
MaloCS Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/02
Posts: 1212
First of all, you guys should be listing what it is you expect out of a vehicle. What activities you will be using it for, what creature comforts you require and how much you're willing to pay. Then you look at the automobiles that best fit these requirements and compare and contrast between them.

It's obvious (from the above responses) that you guys want a vehicle that is more versatile then a Jeep Wrangler so why are you even considering it? Please explain to me how the Jeep Wrangler could possibly be a valid choice knowing that you want a vehicle that can take the kids to soccer practice, pick up the weekly groceries, offer a comfortable commute, haul the family on extended road trip vacations and tear it up off road. It seems to me that comparing the Jeep Liberty to the Xterra would be a more reasonable comparison.

What we have here is someone wanting to compare a Chevy Corvette to a Nissan Maxima. Two different cars designed and marketed to two different markets. Lets compare apples to apples.

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#212639 - 13/09/05 05:04 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Problem is the Jeep Liberty is nowhere near capable enough, nor large enough and does not have a locker. And if it does not have a locker, its not getting a look by me. Besides, I dont buy American cars, even if they are made by Germans.

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#212640 - 13/09/05 06:02 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
Sounds like you left to go pick up a new X.

laugh

Anyway -

Ground clearance involves several issues.

1. The differentials (Those masses at the center of the axle that are lower than the rest of the truck) - As explained, the rear's can only get more clearance by getting a larger diameter tire...the front diff is raised by an SL (AND by larger tires).

2. The rest of the under carriage (The body and frame, the exhaust, drive shafts, gas tank, etc...)...and SL will pick up the frame, which lifts all the truck parts from the frame up...So - A BL will raise SOME of those parts further out of harm's way...(AND is lifted by larger tires)

3. The approach angle (Concerning what steepness you'd be able to drive up w/o hitting the front end on it)...Improved by larger tires or an SL, or a Shrockworks bumper...or, a BL lets the front bumper be higher, improving all bumper related approach angles.

4. The departure angle (Concerning how steep a thing you can drive off of, w/o whacking the rear end on it on the way down...)...improved by larger tires, or an SL, or, again...a BL can let you raise the rear bumper, improving departure angles.

5. Break over angle (Picture your truck cresting a steep hill, with the front tires over the top on on the downhill side, and your rear tires still on the uphill side...the crest of the hill will be really close or hitting the center of your truck's bottom...so the angle from the bottoms of the tires to the center of the truck's bottom) - This is improved by larger tires or an SL.

That's a summary of how it can work.

Notice that larger tires are the universal solution, as they are the ONLY way to get the rear diff higher, and, they lift the entire truck, not just part.

To get larger tires, you can do an SL...but, that leaves no additional room under compression (When the tire is stuffed up into the wheel well on uptravel)...so you can't fit as large a tire because it will still hit on uptravel the same as before the lift...but be fine at ride height, etc...

You can add bumpstop extensions (Rubber stops that make the OEM stops longer...) that keep the tire from rising as far...but steal uptravel....

Or

Do a BL...which allows the larger tire to go further up w/o hitting, thus ultimately allowing a larger tire than an SL (W/o really raising the whole truck by itself)

So - Each has its role...I have a 3" SL and a 2" BL...and can run 305/70/16's, which are like wider treaded taller 33x12.5's.

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

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#212641 - 14/09/05 09:34 AM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


so i got the truck. i could NOT be happier. glad i was forced into the sound system. i've had fully pimped out after market systems in my car. this one sounds fantastic. i mean it, fantastic.

this truck is UNBELIEVABLE. don't know why it feels different than the test drive. i suppose because i own it, it feels way smoother. and by smooth, i mean pimp.

so, i'm officially in the club now. next is going to the mod department. deciding to probably put sliders first (shrockworks probably... chrome too mmmmm)

then, flowmaster i'm thinking... boy, as i've looked back on this post, it looks like i had WAY too much adderall. (or however u spell it)

look at my sick amount of run-on sentences and grammatical errors. i love it. also at work, can't really focus.

ok, the xterra rules. can't wait to mod and go offroad. shout at y'all later.

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#212642 - 14/09/05 09:49 AM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
You should hook up with Southeast Xterra (In forum local group section...) or other off road clubs in your area...they'll help you find some trails, teach you the ropes, etc.

laugh

Avoid chrome anything...off roaders and chrome don't normally mix....think black or grey, etc...unless you are more gaily oriented, like Dagger, etc...and need to have a flashier presence to feel comfortable, etc.

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

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#212643 - 14/09/05 10:03 AM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
MaloCS Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/02
Posts: 1212
Congrats on the purchase. smile

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#212644 - 14/09/05 03:52 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Another " Fosgate" fan [ThumbsUp] Watch your hearing though! Skip the Chrome, and with 265 ponies, skip the flowmaster and save for bumpers, skid plates and lovely 5" lift, now thats pimp [Spit]

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#212645 - 14/09/05 04:41 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


skip flowmaster entirely? or just wait till i lift it and such? no chrome? i mean, black on black would look kind of dumb. not that i want to be flashy...but they're step rails... not rims. i'm not trying to do something non-functional here. besides, the black ones are more expensive anyway! that's flashier!

also, i figured the stock OR skid plates were decent enough. no? maybe i overlooked that. i suppose they're not beefy enough eh?

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#212646 - 14/09/05 04:42 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


congrats on the purchase...now pics! lol

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#212647 - 14/09/05 04:48 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


perhaps i should post some pics pre-mod. it would make me feel good about myself... or something.

not that i'll be modding soon anyway. i have to get a few paychecks back under my belt for a comfort zone. *ahem* i kinda put a 19k down payment on it. so, needless to say, i have like zilch in my checking/savings.

put those up soon.

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#212648 - 14/09/05 06:02 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
TJ Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 7756
Loc: Lawrenceville, NJ, USA
That's the problem...they're step rails....you want rock rails...sliders.

laugh

Bling falls off...get steel.

laugh

You can coast for while, the X can do quite a bit the way it is.

Go WHEELING!!!! GET DIRTY!!!! X's shine when covered with MUD!

laugh
_________________________
- TJ

2001 Xterra '03 VG33, SE 5 spd, 305/70/16's, Revolvers, UBSkidderz, Doubled AAL's, 3"SL/2"BL, winch/bumpers, skids, sliders, OBA, Snorkel, pine stripes....

Friends don't let friends drive stock.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/501230/tj-tackling-crawlers-ridge-o.gif

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#212649 - 14/09/05 06:08 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by m2pro:
...no chrome? i mean, black on black would look kind of dumb. not that i want to be flashy...but they're step rails... not rims... i'm not trying to do something non-functional here. besides, the black ones are more expensive anyway! that's flashier!
They're sliders, not step rails, designed to slide you across/fend off obstacles that would normally kill your rocker panels/lower doors. The chrome would just get scratched to hell, unless you're not taking it off road. In that case, it's your vehicle do what you want with it, just expect some flak from the rest of us laugh Just get the bare steel Shrock sliders and you can do whatever you want to do with them, paint (any color under the rainbow), [cough]chrome[/chrome], powdercoat, etc...

Quote:
also, i figured the stock OR skid plates were decent enough. no? maybe i overlooked that. i suppose they're not beefy enough eh?
Haven't looked @ the stock underbody armor on the '05s yet, but I would want to get something designed by Shrock or Skid Row to really protect the vital underbelly of the X...I have already had to replace my gas tank on my '02 (at ~$500 and that's with a discount) because the stock "skid" is such a worthless piece of swiss cheese posing as steel.

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#212650 - 14/09/05 08:21 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
also, i figured the stock OR skid plates were decent enough. no? maybe i overlooked that. i suppose they're not beefy enough eh?
Haven't looked @ the stock underbody armor on the '05s yet, but I would want to get something designed by Shrock or Skid Row to really protect the vital underbelly of the X...I have already had to replace my gas tank on my '02 (at ~$500 and that's with a discount) because the stock "skid" is such a worthless piece of swiss cheese posing as steel.[/QB][/QUOTE]

The stock skid plates are some of the thinnest I have ever seen. One moderate wheeling trip and they all collapsed. I wont even do a hard trip until I get a skid plate package. Its kind of a shame, but I think its because they struggled to meet fuel milage standards, even on the 05 X. Only reason I can explain putting on skid plates so thin splashing water might bend them eek

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#212651 - 14/09/05 08:57 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmmmmmm....Let's see....

Rubicon vs. Xterra
Chrysler reliability (HA!) vs. Nissan reliability (meh)
Solid Front Axle (articulate) vs. IFS (just lift the wheel)
Solid Front Axle (hell on the freeway) vs. IFS (Rides like Dad's Camry!)
FR and RR Lockers vs. Optional Rear Locker
Huge aftermarket following vs. limited aftermarket following
Doesn't need mods to hardcore wheel vs. Hello, Calmini!
Convertible vs. Hard Top
Bring a buddy camping vs. bring buddies camping
Gets you there vs. Gets you home

And the winner is............

The Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80

What.

Toyota Reliability
Solid Front Axle (and still rides like Dad's Camry!)
Front and Rear Lockers
Huge Aftermarket following
Needs few mods to hardcore wheel
Goodbye Calmini, Hello ARB!
Hard Top, but w/massive sunroof
Seats Eight--Bring small tribe camping
Gets you there. Gets you home.

Oh, and a used one with low miles can be found for about half the price of an Xterra or Rubicon.

Sexy, too.

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#212652 - 14/09/05 10:00 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Xtoolbox Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/00
Posts: 1668
Loc: Torrance, CA
Rubicon Unlimited .VS. the 05 OR X might be a better comparison unless you’re looking for a short wheel base [SWB] vehicle.

IMO in general a SWB doesn’t ride as smooth on the highway, off-road a SWB will be an advantage sometimes while a LWB other times such as climbing.

Personally if I going to buy a vehicle just for wheeling I would get a rock buggy. I would have a hard time spending 25k+ plus another 5 to 10k+ for a long arm lift, skids, steering upgrades, bumpers, rear CV DS, HD axle shafts, u-joints, tires, etc that I would want with a jeep.
_________________________
SCCX Home Page

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#212653 - 15/09/05 01:09 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


If your vehicle will be a daily driver, go with the X. If you just need a trail rig, go buy a used, built jeep/rubi.

The Xterra has one of the best engines out there. It's also a more useful all-around vehicle.

Jeeps are a dime a dozen, especially on the trails. I take pride in the fact that I wheel my X.

The X is also better for the Baja 1000.

You will find people bowing down to jeeps all the time. Truth is, I see them stuck and broken down frequently!

Plus, with an X, you can have fun in the snow!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ^click click^


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#212654 - 15/09/05 03:36 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I will COMPLETELY dissagree on the FJ80, the newer ones with the lockers, are far too large for most trails. I have seen old school ones on trails, but never a newer one on anything but easy trails. Thats also not a fair comparison since the new ones have no lockers and are useless, you have to compare new to new, not old to new or what could be added as mods.

As far as a rock buggy as a trail rig? Sure, if you have another 30K for a Titan tow rig, 3,000 for a trailer, dont do expeditions or interconnecting trails, dont do long easy trails, have a 50K+ budget for the rig, dont want to drive cross country to a trail head, dont want to take your family.....Rock buggies are a vastly different wheeling style.

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#212655 - 15/09/05 06:03 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Xtoolbox Offline
Member

Registered: 23/08/00
Posts: 1668
Loc: Torrance, CA
Yeah newer LC’s aren’t really in same class size or $ wise but:

91-97’ FJ80 are just a bit bigger than an X with a 112” wheel base and do/fit fine on the Rubicon, Moab, etc. Used ones do make excellent expedition vehicles.

>97 are LC 100’s, larger and IFS, lockers optional, but with a lift and some armor, they still run the “Con just like 4 wheeler mag did with their Lexus 470 series the last two years.

Maybe you missed my personal point about a rock buggy? Wasn’t taking about an expedition vehicle or something general purpose (already have those) hence the name but something just for off-roading as a 2nd, 3rd vehicle, or 4th in my case [LOL]
_________________________
SCCX Home Page

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#212656 - 15/09/05 08:25 PM Re: Ok. Wrangler or Xterra?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here you go B-
RHINO RTV- XT1


I'd like to win the lottery and deposit a large pile of large rocks on my large property and have a half dozen or so of these to run around on, like quads.. Yeah, that'd be sweet..

[Smoking]

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