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#212846 - 09/07/03 05:10 PM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
[b]What if we did not take down Saddam and he finished his weapons programs and used them, then Bush would have been skinned alive and blamed for the deaths that Saddam could have caused.I can understand why people do not agree with the Iraq issue, because yes, soldiers are still dying, but what else could we have done. Does anyone think that Saddam would ever had stopped doing what he did diplomatically?
well the issue is what excatly DID he do?. No WMD has been found the alleged solicitation of material from Africa was bogus...was it a "wag the dog" scenario?. hard to say, I would say so far this whoel mess has not shown any great results, the dictator is still loose, Terrorism is alive and well yet lives has been lost and every man woman and child in the US owed about $2000 due to this. Could the money have been spendt on homeland security?. Healthcare and the likes?.[/b]
good point. i am a little confused about owing the $2000 though confused [/b]
I'm assuming he's talking about the cost of this "war" to the taxpayers.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212847 - 09/07/03 05:17 PM Re: Now what?
FANOF5 Offline
Member

Registered: 22/04/03
Posts: 263
Loc: Jacksonville, Fl
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
What if we did not take down Saddam and he finished his weapons programs and used them, then Bush would have been skinned alive and blamed for the deaths that Saddam could have caused.I can understand why people do not agree with the Iraq issue, because yes, soldiers are still dying, but what else could we have done. Does anyone think that Saddam would ever had stopped doing what he did diplomatically?
well the issue is what excatly DID he do?. No WMD has been found the alleged solicitation of material from Africa was bogus...was it a "wag the dog" scenario?. hard to say, I would say so far this whoel mess has not shown any great results, the dictator is still loose, Terrorism is alive and well yet lives has been lost and every man woman and child in the US owed about $2000 due to this. Could the money have been spendt on homeland security?. Healthcare and the likes?.[/b]
good point. i am a little confused about owing the $2000 though confused [/b]
I'm assuming he's talking about the cost of this "war" to the taxpayers.
alrighty then. i guess were damned if we do, damned if we don't.
_________________________
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#212848 - 09/07/03 05:58 PM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by Claus A Christensen:
quote:
Originally posted by FANOF5:
What if we did not take down Saddam and he finished his weapons programs and used them, then Bush would have been skinned alive and blamed for the deaths that Saddam could have caused.I can understand why people do not agree with the Iraq issue, because yes, soldiers are still dying, but what else could we have done. Does anyone think that Saddam would ever had stopped doing what he did diplomatically?
well the issue is what excatly DID he do?. No WMD has been found the alleged solicitation of material from Africa was bogus...was it a "wag the dog" scenario?. hard to say, I would say so far this whoel mess has not shown any great results, the dictator is still loose, Terrorism is alive and well yet lives has been lost and every man woman and child in the US owed about $2000 due to this. Could the money have been spendt on homeland security?. Healthcare and the likes?.[/b]
good point. i am a little confused about owing the $2000 though confused [/b]
I'm assuming he's talking about the cost of this "war" to the taxpayers.
alrighty then. i guess were damned if we do, damned if we don't.

At this point, pretty much.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212849 - 09/07/03 06:01 PM Re: Now what?
Samueul Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 4114
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. USA
Quote:
Originally posted by number41:
homeless people jobs, SOMETHING.[/QB]
Shit! How bout even just getting jobless people jobs! smile
_________________________
Must stay away from political/religious debates. Must stay away........

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#212850 - 09/07/03 11:48 PM Re: Now what?
number41 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 2906
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by Samueul:
Quote:
Originally posted by number41:
homeless people jobs, SOMETHING.
Shit! How bout even just getting jobless people jobs! smile [/QB]
Well, his daddy couldn't do that either, so maybe there is hope smile
_________________________
-Xavier

Small hands in third world countries make quality products.

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#212851 - 10/07/03 06:53 AM Re: Now what?
Xterrian Offline
Member
*

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 2014
Loc: Fort Lewis, WA
[rant]I always thought it was a mistake to bring up WMD, terrorist affiliation or any other "reason" to go to war with Iraq. Sadam constantly flaunted the U.N. resolutions that were in place at the end of the first Gulf War. All the U.N. ever did was put out more resolutions. The real mistake was waiting 11 years to do it. I'm suffering daily to make this happen and am still in harms way. I never fired a shot and spent the whole war in Kuwait, but I could just have easily been in Iraq like I was 11 years ago. We lost an ambulance driver and one of our OR techs had his wife wounded. I worked with her everyday in CA. It may be me next and even if I get killed all of this has been worth ending that regime. What did Syria do when they saw there was no bluff in our eyes? They invited,no begged, the U.N. to send inspectors. That's how it should be. We are the good guys here. We're not invading countries and annexing them. We should have invaded Liberia when the coup happened years ago. Liberia had a democracy based on our own. It was usurped by the guys with the guns. Still think our democracy is safe? It's not. It has enemies within and without. There are people who just don't like the fact that you are free. They want you to think and act like they do and if they can't force you to do it they're just as happy if you die. I'd prefer to die fighting the bastards. The number of people we are losing over here isn't much higher than what we lose in training accidents back in the States. That's another thing that pisses me off. Military members die everyday in training and everyone acts like it's no big deal. At least these guys are dying in an actual fight, not just getting ready for one.[/rant]
_________________________
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right."
Mark Twain

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#212852 - 10/07/03 07:31 AM Re: Now what?
Samueul Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 4114
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Xterrian:
[rant]I always thought it was a mistake to bring up WMD, terrorist affiliation or any other "reason" to go to war with Iraq. Sadam constantly flaunted the U.N. resolutions that were in place at the end of the first Gulf War. All the U.N. ever did was put out more resolutions. The real mistake was waiting 11 years to do it. I'm suffering daily to make this happen and am still in harms way. I never fired a shot and spent the whole war in Kuwait, but I could just have easily been in Iraq like I was 11 years ago. We lost an ambulance driver and one of our OR techs had his wife wounded. I worked with her everyday in CA. It may be me next and even if I get killed all of this has been worth ending that regime. What did Syria do when they saw there was no bluff in our eyes? They invited,no begged, the U.N. to send inspectors. That's how it should be. We are the good guys here. We're not invading countries and annexing them. We should have invaded Liberia when the coup happened years ago. Liberia had a democracy based on our own. It was usurped by the guys with the guns. Still think our democracy is safe? It's not. It has enemies within and without. There are people who just don't like the fact that you are free. They want you to think and act like they do and if they can't force you to do it they're just as happy if you die. I'd prefer to die fighting the bastards. The number of people we are losing over here isn't much higher than what we lose in training accidents back in the States. That's another thing that pisses me off. Military members die everyday in training and everyone acts like it's no big deal. At least these guys are dying in an actual fight, not just getting ready for one.[/rant]
Well said man!
_________________________
Must stay away from political/religious debates. Must stay away........

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#212853 - 10/07/03 08:01 AM Re: Now what?
MBFlyerfan Offline
Member

Registered: 30/04/01
Posts: 4450
Loc: NJ, Just east of the Walt.
Quote:
Originally posted by Xterrian:
[rant]I always thought it was a mistake to bring up WMD, terrorist affiliation or any other "reason" to go to war with Iraq. Sadam constantly flaunted the U.N. resolutions that were in place at the end of the first Gulf War. All the U.N. ever did was put out more resolutions. The real mistake was waiting 11 years to do it. I'm suffering daily to make this happen and am still in harms way. I never fired a shot and spent the whole war in Kuwait, but I could just have easily been in Iraq like I was 11 years ago. We lost an ambulance driver and one of our OR techs had his wife wounded. I worked with her everyday in CA. It may be me next and even if I get killed all of this has been worth ending that regime. What did Syria do when they saw there was no bluff in our eyes? They invited,no begged, the U.N. to send inspectors. That's how it should be. We are the good guys here. We're not invading countries and annexing them. We should have invaded Liberia when the coup happened years ago. Liberia had a democracy based on our own. It was usurped by the guys with the guns. Still think our democracy is safe? It's not. It has enemies within and without. There are people who just don't like the fact that you are free. They want you to think and act like they do and if they can't force you to do it they're just as happy if you die. I'd prefer to die fighting the bastards. The number of people we are losing over here isn't much higher than what we lose in training accidents back in the States. That's another thing that pisses me off. Military members die everyday in training and everyone acts like it's no big deal. At least these guys are dying in an actual fight, not just getting ready for one.[/rant]
Well done, that should shut up a few people. (but it wont). Another thing that kills me is that the liberal media had taken to calling the snipers the "resistance", like its Viva La Iraq or something like that. It's little shit like this that steers the cattle in this country and the world against us. We should also point out that the people in Liberia started dancing in the street when the rumor that the Americans were coming came out.

Do I agree that the administration has some questions to answer about why they havent found weapons of mass destruction yet? Yes, but I do not think it is some grand conspiracy, nor do i think Bush is a "warmonger". Its funny how the media sort of under-reports the stuff they are finding, like centifuges buried in scientists backyards. Hidden under orders of Qusay himself.

Bush is merely trying to clean up the mess that Clinton economic policy and 9/11 left him with. But then again, I have a job, I wasn't invested in tech stocks. the Democrats are never going to win an election as long as they are preaching thier "Robin Hood" economics.
_________________________
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#212854 - 10/07/03 08:10 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by mbflyerfan:
taken to calling the snipers the "resistance"
Well, they are a "resistance," aren't they?

Quote:
It's little shit like this that steers the cattle in this country and the world against us.
And the fact that the administration fights tooth and nail when it's obvious some things *should* have a little looking into.

Quote:
Do I agree that the administration has some questions to answer about why they havent found weapons of mass destruction yet? Yes, but I do not think it is some grand conspiracy, nor do i think Bush is a "warmonger".[qb][quote]

Has anyone made an allegation of a conspiracy? Last one I heard of was the one Hillary mentioned. [Wave]

[qb][quote]Bush is merely trying to clean up the mess that Clinton economic policy and 9/11 left him with. But then again, I have a job, I wasn't invested in tech stocks.
Clinton didn't have anything to do with the tech stock crash. That was simply a bunch of fools thinking they could make money fast - which makes no sense - why invest in a company that isn't making any profits (pets.com anyone?)
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#212855 - 10/07/03 08:36 AM Re: Now what?
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
They are a 'resistance' sure. Most of them aren't Iraqis though. They are foreign terrorists that want to become martyrs. I just wish we would hurry up and find Saddam. Once that happens lots of things will be different in the country. The people are afraid he is going to come back, and half the liberals I have talked to about this would be glad to let him. They want us to get out of there before it becomes another Viet Nam. :rolleyes: If we do that no one will ever trust us again.
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#212856 - 10/07/03 08:54 AM Re: Now what?
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
They are a 'resistance' sure. Most of them aren't Iraqis though. They are foreign terrorists that want to become martyrs. I just wish we would hurry up and find Saddam. Once that happens lots of things will be different in the country. The people are afraid he is going to come back, and half the liberals I have talked to about this would be glad to let him. They want us to get out of there before it becomes another Viet Nam. :rolleyes: If we do that no one will ever trust us again.
Agreed. They need to capture him (hopefully soon). I personally don't see how this will be another Vietnam. Certainly the government has learned their lesson on that. Let the troops do what needs to be done instead of trying to micromanage from the pentagon. (If, on the off chance this starts to become another Vietnam, then yes, get the troops out. No excuse for men dying simply on the whim of some general sitting thousands of miles away.)
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

Top
#212857 - 10/07/03 09:15 AM Re: Now what?
Claus Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/02
Posts: 4373
Quote:
Originally posted by Xterrian:
[rant]I always thought it was a mistake to bring up WMD, terrorist affiliation or any other "reason" to go to war with Iraq. Sadam constantly flaunted the U.N. resolutions that were in place at the end of the first Gulf War. All the U.N. ever did was put out more resolutions. The real mistake was waiting 11 years to do it. I'm suffering daily to make this happen and am still in harms way. I never fired a shot and spent the whole war in Kuwait, but I could just have easily been in Iraq like I was 11 years ago. We lost an ambulance driver and one of our OR techs had his wife wounded. I worked with her everyday in CA. It may be me next and even if I get killed all of this has been worth ending that regime. What did Syria do when they saw there was no bluff in our eyes? They invited,no begged, the U.N. to send inspectors. That's how it should be. We are the good guys here. We're not invading countries and annexing them. We should have invaded Liberia when the coup happened years ago. Liberia had a democracy based on our own. It was usurped by the guys with the guns. Still think our democracy is safe? It's not. It has enemies within and without. There are people who just don't like the fact that you are free. They want you to think and act like they do and if they can't force you to do it they're just as happy if you die. I'd prefer to die fighting the bastards. The number of people we are losing over here isn't much higher than what we lose in training accidents back in the States. That's another thing that pisses me off. Military members die everyday in training and everyone acts like it's no big deal. At least these guys are dying in an actual fight, not just getting ready for one.[/rant]
I have a question for you since you have been over there, How long do you predict the Coalition and other forces need to present for the country to be politically and economically stable?.

Do you forsee the US being able to combat adn put down the pockets of resistance for good?
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