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#213918 - 25/04/03 10:20 AM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Todrick:
Quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
[b]No post needed, my sig says it all. laugh
your sig quotes Lev 18:22...

so you must know about What the bible says... I'm a bit confused about the following... can you please explain to me.

a) When I burn a bu.....[/b]
I am sure this was discussed before in a previous religion thread, I just wanted to stick it in here briefly

The old testament contained a set of laws that were meant for the people of that time. When Jesus was "put into service", he became the "new law" and all the "old laws" no longer apply. (reference: Hebrews chapter 8, I think?)

Romans 1:26-27 is a good reference in the "new law" which discusses homosexuality.

So in short, all those witty points about the laws in Lev. don't apply anymore - which is why we do things now - like eat pork (best Homer voice, "hmmm Pork"), and don't do things like "Stone our neighbors".
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#213919 - 25/04/03 10:25 AM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Strom:
I read this whole damn post just to make a point at the end - wanted to be sure that I wasn't repeating what someone else said.

Basically, wasn't this guy just making a LEGAL POINT?? If a court rules that behavior in the bedroom/home can not be regulated by government, then anything else you do in the privacy of your own home is legal. Instead, the way to go would be to repeal the sodomy laws (like the majority of states have).

I thought it was simply a legal point? Maybe I haven't read enough on it...
Yeah, thats what I thought his comments were too. I think thats a perfectly valid comment for him to make. He isn't passing judgement on homosexuals, he is just critisizing the wording of the legislation. Right?!? [Freak]
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#213920 - 25/04/03 10:59 AM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
X-Yotaluva Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Rural Hall, NC
Maybe a poll would be in order? (No pun intended)

Who stands with the gays and their rights?

Who thinks gays should [Save the fine unicorns] and get back in the closet?

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#213921 - 25/04/03 11:31 AM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Todrick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 7759
Loc: Arizona
heres a poll for NY Madman... since he raised the question...

Who is the most hated member of XOC?

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#213922 - 25/04/03 12:02 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
LAXterra Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: West Los Angeles, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Todrick:
heres a poll for NY Madman... since he raised the question...

Who is the most hated member of XOC?
Why did you cross post? confused
Why did you have it in the 2WD forum confused
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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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#213923 - 25/04/03 12:05 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Todrick Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 7759
Loc: Arizona
because im not a mod in the clubhouse... so i poste dit off topic in a forum i moderate.. then moved it...

thats not cross posting... it never existed in both forums at one time

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#213924 - 25/04/03 12:07 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
NthLJ Offline
Member

Registered: 28/09/01
Posts: 1297
Loc: Reno, NV USA
Quote:
Posted by CharlieX:

Most of the family values that we take for the "norm" don't exist, they were a creation of the post WWII period that enabled all the returning men to enter the workplace again (displacing all the women that were quite happy to hold those jobs while they were gone...). Basically what we all take as the model family does not exist except in 10% of households and the dynamic is changing rapidly.
You are saying there were no normal family values prior to WWII?

"This statement sounds like it was written by an angry feminist. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

You did say you were back in college. Are you taking any college courses taught by feminists?

A guy your age should be less impressionable."

impressionable? No not really. I was referring to what happened *historically* and is happening right now. The world is changing and there is absolutely nothing your rigid beliefs and closed mind can do about it. Keep spewing though, it is very entertaining laugh
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Sensitivity is important in any relationship...
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#213925 - 25/04/03 12:15 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
LAXterra Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/00
Posts: 1038
Loc: West Los Angeles, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Todrick:
because im not a mod in the clubhouse... so i poste dit off topic in a forum i moderate.. then moved it...

thats not cross posting... it never existed in both forums at one time
They both did exist on Today's Active Topics... thanks for the clarification on cross moderating. [Laughing]
_________________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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#213926 - 25/04/03 04:00 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Andre the Giant:
Mobycat, please forgive me for not including you in my list earlier... from your results on the political compass test, I can see you need help. (ya big socialist you) wink
What's really strange, is while I consider myself to be liberal in the social realm, I've always thought of myself as leaning (not completely) toward the right in the economic area. Go figure.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#213927 - 25/04/03 04:02 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
I am sure this was discussed before in a previous religion thread, I just wanted to stick it in here briefly

The old testament contained a set of laws that were meant for the people of that time. When Jesus was "put into service", he became the "new law" and all the "old laws" no longer apply. (reference: Hebrews chapter 8, I think?)

Romans 1:26-27 is a good reference in the "new law" which discusses homosexuality.
Thank you. Seriously. I asked Off2 a question, not trying to be a smartass (hence my saying "seriously") but he didn't give me an answer.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#213928 - 25/04/03 04:15 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
That passage says God turned them into gays because they were materialistic. It doesn't really say not to be gay per se. It just says the received the due penalty for their perversion. So if you are materialistic God will turn you gay. [Uh Oh !]
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#213929 - 25/04/03 04:18 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Quote:
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
I read a little further along and found that if you disobey your parents you deserve death. How many of us here need to die?
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#213930 - 25/04/03 04:25 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
Quote:
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
That passage says God turned them into gays because they were materialistic. It doesn't really say not to be gay per se. It just says the received the due penalty for their perversion. So if you are materialistic God will turn you gay. [Uh Oh !]
I believe it says that they strayed away from God, and turned to material things instead. It doesn't say that God turned them gay, instead it says that they gave into their lusts.

The term "God gave them over..", is better translated to "God gave up on them..." and let them do it (ie. free will) I don't see where it says that "God turned them into gays".
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#213931 - 25/04/03 04:46 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
Quote:
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
I read a little further along and found that if you disobey your parents you deserve death. How many of us here need to die?
[Begin short short answer.]
The Bible sometimes talks in metaphors. "Life" refers to heaven (like in John 3:16), and similarly "death" refers to hell.

In this case, "death" means eternity in hell. So in short, that passage means - "bad people deserve to go to hell."

If you are a "bad person" who wants to avoid hell, I recommend studying up on these parts of Romans: 3:10, 3:23, 5:12, 6:23, 5:8, 10:9-10, 10:13.
[end short short answer]
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#213932 - 25/04/03 04:49 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Thank you. Seriously.
You're Welcome. Seriously. [Wave]
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#213933 - 25/04/03 05:25 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Seems the whole thing is open to interpretation for whatever needs you want it to serve to me. As far as hell goes, I don't believe in it so I am not to worried.
_________________________
Redsox1113: F*** Iran, the only thing that ever came out of iran was the iron sheik, and hulk hogan whipped his ass. F'em

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#213934 - 25/04/03 05:37 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
KJ_dragon Offline
Member

Registered: 28/08/01
Posts: 4806
Loc: East Bay, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by 2001frontier:
Seems the whole thing is open to interpretation for whatever needs you want it to serve to me.
Are you a laywer? j/k laugh

When it all boils down to it, what philosophies or government legislation aren't subject to personal interpretation. Most things are kinda in grey areas and there are very few things that are truly black and white. That is why we have these discussions - to explore the various interpretations.
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There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count; and those who can't.

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#213935 - 25/04/03 06:23 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Trihead Offline
Member

Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Fucking deviants

http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-md.delgaudio24apr24,0,5369464.story?coll=bal-local-headlines

laugh

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#213936 - 26/04/03 04:35 AM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Sean Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2089
Loc: Billerica, MA
Another one bites the dust, eh? Good find Trihead.

"Delgaudio, who has no prior record, was arrested in November 2001 with a book of obscene photographs he had taken of 15- and 16-year-old girls, according to court documents. The teen-agers went with him on several occasions to a hotel on Pulaski Highway, where they had sex and he paid them to pose in erotic positions for his camera, records show. The girls told Delgaudio their ages, according to police."

I REALLY loved the response:

"He acknowledges the acute moral shortcomings of his conduct, and he will continue intense self-examination and professional and spiritual counseling," the lawyers wrote in the letter, dated yesterday.

Cardin also said he did not want to speak about the case after yesterday's hearing but described his client as "brilliant and eloquent."

Better to be a "brilliant and eloquent" pedophile, then just a regular old one! Why is this sexual predator not going to jail?

confused
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#213937 - 26/04/03 02:28 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by KJ_dragon:
[b]I am sure this was discussed before in a previous religion thread, I just wanted to stick it in here briefly

The old testament contained a set of laws that were meant for the people of that time. When Jesus was "put into service", he became the "new law" and all the "old laws" no longer apply. (reference: Hebrews chapter 8, I think?)

Romans 1:26-27 is a good reference in the "new law" which discusses homosexuality.
Thank you. Seriously. I asked Off2 a question, not trying to be a smartass (hence my saying "seriously") but he didn't give me an answer.[/b]
Mobycat, on page of this thread did you pose a question to me? I skimmed over all these and didn't see any more from you after you responded concerning your brother. So, before you go causing hate and discontent, show me the question again. Ensure you quote yourself from the original. I could have missed it.

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#213938 - 26/04/03 03:21 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Off2...page 7. Here's where I asked you.

(Good grief it took a while to find this...so many pages).

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
No post needed, my sig says it all. laugh
I hope you've never eaten pork. Or do you only take parts of Leviticus to live by?[/b]
Oh please you non-knowing anything pertaining to Christianity. That one chapter was meant for one people in one time. Not everything in the Bible is meant for everyone over all eternity.[/b]
Oh, I see....so the chapter about pork is for one people at one time. But the chapter on sex isn't? Pick and chose? Give me a break. If you live by one, you should be living by the other.

Isn't the bible a take it or leave it thing for you? Or do you take the bible a la carte?

So in all seriousness...please explain why one chapter IS for all of us, and one isn't?

_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#213939 - 26/04/03 04:40 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Off2...page 7. Here's where I asked you.

(Good grief it took a while to find this...so many pages).

Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
quote:
Originally posted by NismoXse02:
No post needed, my sig says it all. laugh
I hope you've never eaten pork. Or do you only take parts of Leviticus to live by?[/b]
Oh please you non-knowing anything pertaining to Christianity. That one chapter was meant for one people in one time. Not everything in the Bible is meant for everyone over all eternity.[/b]
Oh, I see....so the chapter about pork is for one people at one time. But the chapter on sex isn't? Pick and chose? Give me a break. If you live by one, you should be living by the other.

Isn't the bible a take it or leave it thing for you? Or do you take the bible a la carte?

So in all seriousness...please explain why one chapter IS for all of us, and one isn't?


No, I will not answer the first question with that liberal spin put on it.

KJ already answered the question in question. No, not every part of the book is meant for me. Feel free to place any sort of spin on that as you like.

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#213940 - 26/04/03 05:14 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
No, I will not answer the first question with that liberal spin put on it.

KJ already answered the question in question. No, not every part of the book is meant for me. Feel free to place any sort of spin on that as you like.
Oh, good grief. No shit he did. I didn't ask you again. I asked you once. KJ answered it. I don't know if he was responding to me in particular, but it answered my question. And I thanked him for it. Perhaps if you had simply explained WHY?

I can't help it if you think everything that you don't entirely agree with is "liberal" or whatever. You call me a "non-knowing anything about christianity" and then you don't give a reason. Whatever.

*I* wasn't spreading "hate and discontent." Only you view it as such. KJ has been MUCH more helpful than you - you never explain your reasoning. He and I actually had a discussion off-list, and it was quite civil. I have a TON more respect for him, because unlike you, he tries to explain his view. Not simply, "you don't know" and then walk away claiming you don't have time.

Madman and I have a VAST difference in opinion on things. But at least he tries to explain it. I might not agree, even after heated discussions. But he tries to show his reasoning. Have you EVER tried?
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#213941 - 26/04/03 05:40 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]No, I will not answer the first question with that liberal spin put on it.

KJ already answered the question in question. No, not every part of the book is meant for me. Feel free to place any sort of spin on that as you like.
Oh, good grief. No shit he did. I didn't ask you again. I asked you once. KJ answered it. I don't know if he was responding to me in particular, but it answered my question. And I thanked him for it. Perhaps if you had simply explained WHY?

I can't help it if you think everything that you don't entirely agree with is "liberal" or whatever. You call me a "non-knowing anything about christianity" and then you don't give a reason. Whatever.

*I* wasn't spreading "hate and discontent." Only you view it as such. KJ has been MUCH more helpful than you - you never explain your reasoning. He and I actually had a discussion off-list, and it was quite civil. I have a TON more respect for him, because unlike you, he tries to explain his view. Not simply, "you don't know" and then walk away claiming you don't have time.

Madman and I have a VAST difference in opinion on things. But at least he tries to explain it. I might not agree, even after heated discussions. But he tries to show his reasoning. Have you EVER tried?[/b]
I have explained why to you many a times. It is not my fault you choose not to accept any reasoning I may give you. I also don't feel compelled to give a reason behind everything I state. I don't have to impress you. I don't have to persuede you. You are just as hard-headed and set in your ways as I am. You just have more ideals that reflect the vast majority of young 20-somethings that think they have a grip on everything. I was once young and idealistic as they, but experience and wisdom caught up with me, and I matured, unlike them. They too, will someday grow up and see that their opinions of things held today were complete crap.

You can choose to believe me or not. You can choose to accept those things or not. It doesn't matter to me. I am at an age where I know what and who I am.

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#213942 - 26/04/03 05:55 PM Re: Another Stupid Republican Opens His Mouth...
Mobycat Offline
Member
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
You just have more ideals that reflect the vast majority of young 20-somethings that think they have a grip on everything. I was once young and idealistic as they, but experience and wisdom caught up with me, and I matured, unlike them. They too, will someday grow up and see that their opinions of things held today were complete crap.
Well...just to let you in on a little secret...I too was once like that. I'm 35 now. And yes, I grew up and realized my opinions of things when I was in my twenties were complete crap.

Quote:
You can choose to believe me or not. You can choose to accept those things or not. It doesn't matter to me.
I will not accept things that aren't explained to me - and I don't mean things like the mysteries in the bible. I mean it in that if someone wishes to convince me of something, they should give some reasons.

And to prove that some people on here HAVE managed to change my views on things - two years ago if you had asked me whether people should be able to have guns, I would have said no. But some people (I don't remember which people specifically) managed to explain WHY they should be able to have them. They gave a reasoned argument, and I accepted that. I don't have a problem with people owning guns at this point. I still wouldn't own one myself, but if you want one, go for it.

(And at least I don't pretend to have a grip on things. I still don't know whether the whole Iraq thing was the right thing to do. I'm not for it, I'm not against it.)
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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