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#295065 - 15/02/05 07:47 PM Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is my first time doing anything stereo or electronic related and i wanted to know if there will be any problems in compatibility in these components:
Pioneer DEH-1700 CD Player
Boss Riot 850 Subwoofer Mono amp
MTX Audio Road Thunder 10X2TA Enclosed Subwoofer

Thanks

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#295066 - 16/02/05 07:42 AM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


As long as you connect everything properly it will be fine. Make sure the load on the amp from the speakers is 2ohms. have fun

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#295067 - 16/02/05 06:23 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


How would i tell?

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#295068 - 16/02/05 06:27 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Amplifier Type: Mono
RMS Power: 200W x 1 @ 4 Ohms
THD at 4-Ohm RMS Power: 0.01 %
RMS Power: 425W x 1 @ 2 Ohms

Loaded with Two Road Thunder 10" Subwoofers
Impedance: Single 4 Ohms
Power Handling: 400 Watts RMS / 800 Watts Peak
Recommended Amplifier Power: 100-500 Watts RMS
Can u tell from that if theyll work?

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#295069 - 16/02/05 07:05 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by terra:
Amplifier Type: Mono
RMS Power: 200W x 1 @ 4 Ohms
THD at 4-Ohm RMS Power: 0.01 %
RMS Power: 425W x 1 @ 2 Ohms

Loaded with Two Road Thunder 10" Subwoofers
Impedance: Single 4 Ohms
Power Handling: 400 Watts RMS / 800 Watts Peak
Recommended Amplifier Power: 100-500 Watts RMS
Can u tell from that if theyll work?
RMS is what you need to worry about. Your subwoofer can take 400 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. Your amplifier supplies 200 watts @ 4 ohms. Ya, it'll work but your only giving your subwoofer half the power it can take. Seeing that you don't know that much about sound audio and such (no offense, not trying to be an ass at all). I'd have to suggest that you stay with that system. My reason is because since your only putting half the power into the subwoofer as it can take, it will last alot longer, which means you won't have to replace it sooner, so you won't have to deal with it.

Course you could just give it 400 watts RMS @ 4 ohms with no problems, but in your case I think having a subwoofer to start with will be a big jump.

how much you paying anyway?

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#295070 - 16/02/05 08:16 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well i just checked and found out that the sub is too wide for the xterra so Ill need to find another. I would have been paying about 140. So let me just get this straight here: If the RMS is below 400 ill have no problems?

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#295071 - 16/02/05 11:16 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


wow, i just noticed that you have 2 10" subs, and I don't know if each subwoofer is 200W RMS, or if both combined are. Anyway...

Let me explain how amplifiers work, so you can figure this out yourself. RMS power is what matters, RMS is basically the average power in watts that the amplifier gives out (or in a subwoofers case how many average watts it can take). Peak Watts is bullcrap, an amplifier will rarely hit peak, and if it does, within the time frame it does hit you won't notice it.

Now notice how your amplifier has 200 Watts (RMS) @ 4 ohms, but 425 Watts (RMS) @ 2 ohms. Ohms = resistance. The reason that you have more watts at lower ohms is because the resistance is lower, and with less friction equals more efficiency.

Subwoofers and amps are set at different ohms, so what your going to need to do is find a subwoofer willing to accept either 200 Watts (RMS) @4 ohms or 425 Watts (RMS) @ 2 ohms. The subwoofer doesn't have to accept this exact wattage, but I suggest you don't go over the RMS wattage or else the subwoofer will generally over time die.

Sorry if this all sounds condescending I'm just trying to help, and I don't know at what level you stand at with all this. Course if you have anymore questions than just ask (I feel like I'm trying to sell you something...)

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#295072 - 17/02/05 05:42 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Any sub that you can recommend that would be a good match for the amp and still be under $150?

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#295073 - 17/02/05 05:49 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Are these any good for $160?
MTX Audio Road Thunder 10X3A
Loaded with Three Road Thunder 10" Subwoofers
70° Dual Trapezoidal Shape For A Perfect Fit
Impedance: Single 4 Ohms
Power Handling: 400 Watts RMS / 800 Watts Peak
Recommended Amplifier Power: 100-500 Watts RMS

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#295074 - 17/02/05 06:28 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Let me explain how amplifiers work...
Your kidding right?
Quote:

... so you can figure this out yourself. RMS power is what matters, RMS is basically the average power in watts that the amplifier gives out (or in a subwoofers case how many average watts it can take). Peak Watts is bullcrap, an amplifier will rarely hit peak, and if it does, within the time frame it does hit you won't notice it.

Now notice how your amplifier has 200 Watts (RMS) @ 4 ohms, but 425 Watts (RMS) @ 2 ohms. Ohms = resistance. The reason that you have more watts at lower ohms is because the resistance is lower, and with less friction equals more efficiency.

Subwoofers and amps are set at different ohms, so what your going to need to do is find a subwoofer willing to accept either 200 Watts (RMS) @4 ohms or 425 Watts (RMS) @ 2 ohms. The subwoofer doesn't have to accept this exact wattage, but I suggest you don't go over the RMS wattage or else the subwoofer will generally over time die.

Sorry if this all sounds condescending I'm just trying to help, and I don't know at what level you stand at with all this. Course if you have anymore questions than just ask (I feel like I'm trying to sell you something...)
If you don't understand electronics please don't post answers [Geek]

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#295075 - 17/02/05 06:48 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok well can someone please explain?

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#295076 - 17/02/05 07:49 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


okay SLX, I won't post answers, but tell me what your answer to that question would be.

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#295077 - 17/02/05 08:27 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


terra, that three mtx sub setup would not be good for the mono amp you have. Mono amps are set up to have the most power output at 2 ohms. That box is one single 4 ohm connection. it would still work, but the amp would only be putting out 200W. Maybe try 2 10's or 12's that are 4 ohms each and wire them in parallel.

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#295078 - 17/02/05 08:45 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


10” CompVR Subwoofer
Slot-Vented Enclosure for Maximum Output
3/4 Medium Density Fiberboard Construction
Automotive Carpeting with Contoured Logo
Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer Wired in Parallel for 2-Ohm Operation
600 Watts Peak Power Handling
How bout this?

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#295079 - 17/02/05 08:52 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Justblue,

I like ya man, but SLX is right. Let me break down a few things that you said that were incorrect.
Quote:
RMS power is what matters, RMS is basically the average power in watts that the amplifier gives out
RMS (root mean square) is a method of measuring an AC waveform. So, it is commonly referred to as constant power output. This is the maximum power an amp can put out through all of it's channels for any extended period of time. This is opposed to Peak Power, which is the burst of power that occurs when the signal suddenly gets louder(bass drum hits or snare or whatever) the amp cannot constantly produce this amount of power, so we call it peak output.

Quote:
Now notice how your amplifier has 200 Watts (RMS) @ 4 ohms, but 425 Watts (RMS) @ 2 ohms. Ohms = resistance. The reason that you have more watts at lower ohms is because the resistance is lower, and with less friction equals more efficiency.
ya did pretty good here.

Quote:
Subwoofers and amps are set at different ohms
subs are basically a resistor, so it is set at a particular ohm. Amps aren't set at an ohm. Amps recieve resistance. They are only stable down to their particular rating.
Quote:
The subwoofer doesn't have to accept this exact wattage, but I suggest you don't go over the RMS wattage or else the subwoofer will generally over time die
huh? I can take a 1000W RMS amp and connect it to a 100W Max speaker and it will never blow as long as it doesn't distort.
I think you sort of understand what you are talking about, but it isn't coming out in any helpful way. Study away!!!

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#295080 - 17/02/05 08:56 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK so would the sub specs i just entered work with that amp?

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#295081 - 17/02/05 09:44 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


RMS == root-mean-square...This is not the average power of and AC signal. RMS is roughly equal to the peak to peak AC voltage * 0.707. What this gives you is the appox. equivalent DC voltage. In other words if you were to apply 1.0VAC peak to peak current to a load it would be the same as applying 0.707VDC to that load. Your home is wired at around 120VAC-RMS which is 170V peak to peak AC. RMS AC voltage values are used because they give us a more accurate indication of the power that can be applied to the load.

What does this have to do with amplifiers and speakers? Simple. First please understand that car audio product specifications are almost always garbage. A lot of reading between the lines is necessary.

Any amplifier should be rated within the expected parameters of its operation. In the case of car audio amplifiers the parameters are:
1). The range of human hearing: 20hz – 20,000hz
2). The available power supply to the amp i.e. alternator: 12vdc-13.7vdc (13.7vdc is a stretch but most are rated at this max value.)
3). % THD-Total Harmonic Distortion: humans can perceive as little as 1% THD. (THD is the noise the amplifier adds to the original signal as it is amplified. As amplifiers reach their output or volume limits the THD goes WAY up!)
4). Expected load in ohms. (This load varies from around 8ohms to as little as 1 ohm. An ohm is a unit of electrical resistance and can be thought of as a restriction to the flow of electricity.)

To answer you question as to will it work depends largely on your music choices and desired volume levels. If you hook everything up correctly then yes it will work but maybe not as you would like. If you like very dynamic music at high volume (2-10” subs yeah I think so) this system may be a problem. Why? Amp quality not power.

RIOT RT850 Monoblock Amplifier
Max power, 2 ohm
850w x 1
RMS power, 4 ohm
200w x 1
RMS power, 2 ohm
N/A
Bridged power, 4 ohm
N/A
Signal-noise-ratio
>105dB
THD
.01%
Frequency Response
N/A
Size 8" W x 2 3/4"H x...
9 3/4"

This amp plays the “spec game” common to car audio. It is not what is stated but what is not stated that causes concern. At 2 ohms (your proposed load with two 4 ohm subs) the manufacturer does not tell you anything about the distortion dynamic, frequency range, headroom or damping of this product. My guess…this amp will be hot as hell(short life), have little dynamic power(speaker killing clipping) and sound like crap when cranked. There is a reason some mono blocks are <$100 and some are $1000+ w/ the same rated power!

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#295082 - 17/02/05 10:04 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


terra, the sub that you just entered will work as long as you only use one.

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#295083 - 17/02/05 10:23 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok so back to my original question. Is that combination worth getting? If not, can you suggest a different component for around the same price?

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#295084 - 18/02/05 09:35 AM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


wow, thankyou so much guys for the information. Ya, I guess I really don't know what I'm talking about. I just kinda guessed on alot of the specifics of car audio, and thanks for giving me the correct information, instead of bashing me.

So while your at it, know of any good amplifier companies that make good 4 channel amplifiers? Gotta get 80 W RMS @ 4 ohms. I was thinking MTX Thunder 1004, even though it's 10 Watts RMS over.

Thanks yall once again for helpin me! And course sorry to steal the thread, figured it wouldn't be a big deal.

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#295085 - 18/02/05 06:09 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


So if i have an amp putting out 200 watts at 4 ohms and i get a sub that has a max RMS of 100 watts at 4 ohms, that should be ok right?

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#295086 - 18/02/05 07:12 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


terra:

As long as your amp is delivering "clean" power it will not be a problem. More drivers are fried with to little power than too much.

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#295087 - 18/02/05 07:31 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok i got it now. Will it come with the cables or can you tell me what i need to get?

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#295088 - 18/02/05 08:39 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


you want your mono amp to run at 2 ohms though, since you are using it for subs. Either get 1 DVC 2ohm sub or 2 SVC 4ohm subs. you will thank me later.

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#295089 - 18/02/05 09:35 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


DVC?

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#295090 - 18/02/05 10:00 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


To be honest if you are unsure what you need you may be in over you head on this one. Starting from the battery on the X you need a good size large wire gauge battery terminal binding clamp. With this type of system you want to run at least 8 gauge for amp power. 4 gauge is better. You will also need to install a 1 to 1.5 farad capacitor to prevent voltage sags that will drive your amp to clip at musical peaks.
If the amp or head unit does not include an electronic crossover, you will need and outboard crossover to blend the sub into the rest of the system. Of course with the power wiring you will also need fuses, fuse holders (power distribution block), at least one if not more RCA cables of required length, and a good close ground point on the frame wired with 4 gauge minimum.
This is what comes to mind off the top of my head but I may have forgotten some things. Best bet is to find someone who has done similar installs. Good luck with your system.
wink

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#295091 - 19/02/05 09:14 AM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


O well i guess thats not going to happen.

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#295092 - 19/02/05 11:56 AM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


Anyone have any advice on how to go about this?

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#295093 - 19/02/05 12:14 PM Re: Compatibility
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think i understand it now since i found a helpful site. So i need a wire from the battery, wires to go from the HU to the amp, a grounding wire, and a wire to connect the amp to the sub. If thats right, how do i get the power wire to the rear seats? And is there a recommended place to put the grounding wire?

Thanks

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