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#418534 - 24/05/02 01:22 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by CharlieH:
[QB]

With the Calmini arms, the alignment was dead on with a full range of adjustment available. No fooling around, no calls, no custom arms to be made, they just worked. The Calmini arms are much more consistent in their manufacture. They looked dead on when compared to one another. The AC arms looked (were) different.

QB]
That is the way it should be.
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SAS - It's what your Xterra wants for Christmas.

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#418535 - 24/05/02 01:31 PM Re: 3" lift
BoarderPhreak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 7469
Loc: Huntington, NY
Wow, yeah - looks like the AC UCAs are indeed a POS... So many people are having problems with them, and from the pictures, very obvious! The welds and everything look kind of like a hack too, and they don't even MATCH!

I didn't mean to infer that Calmini parts sucked (I plan on getting a few myself) - just that they looked a little, err, "boxy." laugh
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#418536 - 24/05/02 01:38 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by DesertRAT:

Is it out so bad that it's cutting tires? Does the shop you're using have experience in aligning lifted IFS trucks? Have you been to other shops? Just curious.
Yes.. I am getting accelerated tire wear on the outside of the tires (32" TSL's)
And I have had three differant places try their hand at alignmet.
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SAS - It's what your Xterra wants for Christmas.

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#418537 - 24/05/02 01:48 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by DesertRAT:
Yet I know most people have no problems on the alignments. Odd to say the least.
Key word there is most.. I have yet to hear ONE complaint about the Calmini lift giving anyone problems with the alignment. Yet there are several people that have alignment issues with the current AC arms be it the camber or the fact that they have little or no adjustment left on the cam bolts.

As for the look differance between the two arms. The AC arms may be as strong as the Calmini arms but their appearance says something about the care (or lack of)that was taken in their construction.
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#418538 - 24/05/02 01:58 PM Re: 3" lift
FSRBIKER Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 1001
Loc: Oak Ridge, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Carlton McMillan:
Quote:
Originally posted by DesertRAT:
[b]Yet I know most people have no problems on the alignments. Odd to say the least.
Key word there is most.. I have yet to hear ONE complaint about the Calmini lift giving anyone problems with the alignment. Yet there are several people that have alignment issues with the current AC arms be it the camber or the fact that they have little or no adjustment left on the cam bolts.

As for the look differance between the two arms. The AC arms may be as strong as the Calmini arms but their appearance says something about the care (or lack of)that was taken in their construction.[/b]
About two months ago there was a post on this or Schluds board about a alignment problem with teh Calmini arms, can't remember the guys name though.

I have the AC arms, never had an alignment problem and my Swampers are wearing perfectly after 17,000 miles. Has anyone been to an RTI ramp with the full Calmini lift? I scored a 743(20 degree) with the AC lift, that's while losing traction since it was on cinders...both rear tires were still planted. Just interested to get a comparison since they use bumpstop extensions with their lift.
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FSRBIKER
97 TJ, 2" lift, 32's
69 Bronco, locked Dana 44, 35" MTR's, 5.5" lift
EOE...Opening Soon!

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#418539 - 24/05/02 02:13 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Todd.. I searched and can not find the phantom post..

I did however find this:

Posted by Todd FSR Biker:
"From the only review of Calmini's kit which was in 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility magazine there was not increase in articulation/travel up front...if this is true(and no one has denied it) then stay away from this kit unless you are going for looks..."

Please answer me a question.. How can one gain articulation when you are still using the stock bump stops? Did you relocate the bump stops on your AC lift to increase articulation/ wheel travel? From my observations, if you do not remove or relocate the bump stops it does not matter whos kit you have, the wheels will travel the same distance from bump stop to bump stop.

Am I missing something or are you just slamming on Calmini? If I remember correctly you were slamming hard on AC till EOE and AC got into bed together.
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#418540 - 24/05/02 02:38 PM Re: 3" lift
FSRBIKER Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 1001
Loc: Oak Ridge, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Carlton McMillan:
Todd.. I searched and can not find the phantom post..

I did however find this:

Posted by Todd FSR Biker:
"From the only review of Calmini's kit which was in 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility magazine there was not increase in articulation/travel up front...if this is true(and no one has denied it) then stay away from this kit unless you are going for looks..."

Please answer me a question.. How can one gain articulation when you are still using the stock bump stops? Did you relocate the bump stops on your AC lift to increase articulation/ wheel travel? From my observations, if you do not remove or relocate the bump stops it does not matter whos kit you have, the wheels will travel the same distance from bump stop to bump stop.

Am I missing something or are you just slamming on Calmini? If I remember correctly you were slamming hard on AC till EOE and AC got into bed together.
Because the new upper a-arms are shaped differently than the factory ones to allow for more travel, they are also a slight bit longer.

I questioned AC about their kit as well as MANY others did when it came out about the travel and such...was that a bad thing? I am not "in bed" with anyone(except my wife), I sell some of AC's parts and they sell mine...is that a bad thing to increase my sales?
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FSRBIKER
97 TJ, 2" lift, 32's
69 Bronco, locked Dana 44, 35" MTR's, 5.5" lift
EOE...Opening Soon!

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#418541 - 24/05/02 02:40 PM Re: 3" lift
BoarderPhreak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 7469
Loc: Huntington, NY
I've seen those lower-profile bumpstops on SLR's site... Would they have any effect on a stock setup (I'm guessing not) and should they be installed when you replace the UCA (I'm guess yes)?
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#418542 - 24/05/02 02:46 PM Re: 3" lift
FSRBIKER Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 1001
Loc: Oak Ridge, NJ
Oh yea why would I slam Calmini? I just asked a question on RTI scores to see if anyone had them posted somewhere and I know I read a post about an alignment problem. I am way to busy to start searching for it but you can spend your holiday weekend searching if you want. I can't remember exactly where or when the post was or if it was within another thread on lifts...maybe someone else can recall.

Have a good holiday weekend everyone!
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FSRBIKER
97 TJ, 2" lift, 32's
69 Bronco, locked Dana 44, 35" MTR's, 5.5" lift
EOE...Opening Soon!

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#418543 - 24/05/02 02:53 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by FSRBIKER:
Because the new upper a-arms are shaped differently than the factory ones to allow for more travel, they are also a slight bit longer.

I questioned AC about their kit as well as MANY others did when it came out about the travel and such...was that a bad thing? I am not "in bed" with anyone(except my wife), I sell some of AC's parts and they sell mine...is that a bad thing to increase my sales?
I just remember how your tune changed about AC when it was discovered by accident that the lift that you are selling is infact a repackaged AC lift.

If in fact you are now using new longer/differant shaped UCA's for for increased tire drop I can see a problem. With allowing more tire drop the problem can be heard with a loud crack as your CV joint explodes.

We have seen it before here on this board where people with the lifts* that are on the market now have nuked their CV due to it binding. So if you are infact getting more drop from the front end via a new UCA then I hope you bring extra half shafts so that you can replace them when you granade them on the trail.

Note: *although I think the only people that have done this have been running the AC lift - The same lift that is notorious for killing the EOE tie rod centerlinks. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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SAS - It's what your Xterra wants for Christmas.

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#418544 - 24/05/02 02:55 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by FSRBIKER:
Oh yea why would I slam Calmini? I just asked a question on RTI scores to see if anyone had them posted somewhere...
Posted by Todd FSR Biker:
"From the only review of Calmini's kit which was in 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility magazine there was not increase in articulation/travel up front...if this is true(and no one has denied it) then stay away from this kit unless you are going for looks..."

I don't know why you slammed them.
_________________________
SAS - It's what your Xterra wants for Christmas.

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#418545 - 24/05/02 03:14 PM Re: 3" lift
Steel_City_X Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 934
Loc: Pueblo, CO
I see this issue being discussed and want to add that having recently installed a lift, I am concerned that to get my alignment into spec, I have to leave 1/2" to 3/4" between bump stop (low profile) and upper control arm. I had this set, but the angle of the CV seemed too much. I know the device is designed flex, but everything has its limits. I would rather not push this part of my truck beyond its limits.

Thus, I am now running 1" gap and have some serious camber issues.

I am concerned that too much focus on an RTI score would be deceptive. I have a problems if the focus of the aftermarket is just being able to score well on the RTI. If the result of this is having issues with damage, I would rather have less travel and longer life for parts to my truck.

Just my thoughts

Todd
_________________________
First Xterra IFS or SAS up Moab Rim...#2 up Mt. Blanca.
African Adventure pictures....
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#418546 - 24/05/02 03:30 PM Re: 3" lift
NthLJ Offline
Member

Registered: 28/09/01
Posts: 1297
Loc: Reno, NV USA
Quote:
Originally posted by DesertRAT:
Is it out so bad that it's cutting tires? Does the shop you're using have experience in aligning lifted IFS trucks? Have you been to other shops? Just curious.
I went to six alignment shops. The first gave me a bogus read that showed within spec and sent me on my way. 2 of the shops were barely competent. 3 of the shops were aces, and have tons of experience. I wanted to rule out all the possibilities before I junked a set of arms. I fortunately caught it before it was wearing on my tires too bad.

on the other stuff...I only had the a-arms from AC, now the Calmini. I don't know if doing my own thing in the back has helped or hurt in the articulation dept. I can say that both perform very well off road...The only difference being the allignment issues.

I have purchased other parts from AC and will probably buy more. After Mike gets my arms back, he said he would address the QC issues with the manufacturer. It's a good thing that the lifts work for the majority, but prospective buyers should also be aware of the flip-side and make their own choice based on all the information available.
_________________________
Charlie

Sensitivity is important in any relationship...
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'" --Bob Newhart

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#418547 - 24/05/02 04:40 PM Re: 3" lift
XOC Offline
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Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 17103
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
I believe Mosi wore out a centerlink idler bushing with just a torsion bar tweak.

If the tie-rods are not at the factory angle (which is almost parallel to the centerlink), upward forces will wear out the bushing on the idler pivot.
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#418548 - 24/05/02 04:44 PM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by DesertRAT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Carlton McMillan:

Note: *although I think the only people that have done this have been running the AC lift - The same lift that is notorious for killing the EOE tie rod centerlinks. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I'll correct you on this one. Killing steering components has absolutely nothing to do with which lift is installed. It has everything to do with how much lift you get out of it, what offset you're running on the wheels, and where you go - these three factors determine centerlink life and hence, tierod life. All available lifts put the steering it identical angles based on how much you crank them up. Just facts, please.[/QB]
That is true.. I guess I was figuring into that the fact that in order to get the AC lift into or close to spec you had to really crank up the front thus causing a larger number of failures due to the overly high angles.

The other factors like driver agression and other components are factors as well.

Thank you for jogging my memory. smile
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#418549 - 24/05/02 07:16 PM Re: 3" lift
FaulkYou Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 48
Loc: Avon NY
XCETRA...thanks for the advice...and will post those pics as soon as its done...thanks again
Jeff

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#418550 - 26/05/02 09:34 PM Re: 3" lift
stormy Offline
Member

Registered: 13/06/01
Posts: 1454
Loc: NH
This is what I'm talking about as far as manufacturing... Even the bumpstops don't line up... To me, I can see a big difference in workmanship.

[img]http://www.superjens.com/pics/gallery/images/bumpstop[1].jpg[/img]
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#418551 - 27/05/02 06:31 PM Re: 3" lift
NthLJ Offline
Member

Registered: 28/09/01
Posts: 1297
Loc: Reno, NV USA
Acctually, that looks pretty good. smile
_________________________
Charlie

Sensitivity is important in any relationship...
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'" --Bob Newhart

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#418552 - 27/05/02 08:29 PM Re: 3" lift
Steel_City_X Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 934
Loc: Pueblo, CO
Whatever you do, include an idler arm brace with your lift.

I am taking stock in idler arm futures right now. I think the market is going to be very hot soon.

Anyone know the list price of the idler arm? wink

Todd
_________________________
First Xterra IFS or SAS up Moab Rim...#2 up Mt. Blanca.
African Adventure pictures....
http://homepage.mac.com/ahlenius/

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#418553 - 28/05/02 06:38 AM Re: 3" lift
SEXterra Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/01
Posts: 357
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Quote:
Originally posted by Steel_City_X:
Whatever you do, include an idler arm brace with your lift.

I am taking stock in idler arm futures right now. I think the market is going to be very hot soon.

Anyone know the list price of the idler arm? wink

Todd
Supposedly, if you get one the "Beck Arnley's" or "Moog's" from Autozone, they have a lifetime warranty on them. Might be worth your time to invest in one of those rather than OEM.
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#418554 - 28/05/02 07:25 AM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by SEXterra:
Supposedly, if you get one the "Beck Arnley's" or "Moog's" from Autozone, they have a lifetime warranty on them. Might be worth your time to invest in one of those rather than OEM.
I have seen that the Moogs have a higher failure rate than the factory Idler arm.. I would stick with the OE arm with the Calmini brace. Besides.. if you can keep the arm from failing with a brace, why would you care if there is a lifetime warrenty and free replacement (especially if you have to replace them that often leaving you stranded on a trail)
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#418555 - 28/05/02 07:30 AM Re: 3" lift
FSRBIKER Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 1001
Loc: Oak Ridge, NJ
Carlton the AC/Calmini braces prevent the slop in the bushing but do not prevent the arm from bending, I bent the stock one when my centerlink went.
_________________________
FSRBIKER
97 TJ, 2" lift, 32's
69 Bronco, locked Dana 44, 35" MTR's, 5.5" lift
EOE...Opening Soon!

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#418556 - 28/05/02 07:40 AM Re: 3" lift
FSRBIKER Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 1001
Loc: Oak Ridge, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Carlton McMillan:
Quote:
Originally posted by FSRBIKER:
[b]Because the new upper a-arms are shaped differently than the factory ones to allow for more travel, they are also a slight bit longer.

I questioned AC about their kit as well as MANY others did when it came out about the travel and such...was that a bad thing? I am not "in bed" with anyone(except my wife), I sell some of AC's parts and they sell mine...is that a bad thing to increase my sales?
I just remember how your tune changed about AC when it was discovered by accident that the lift that you are selling is infact a repackaged AC lift.

If in fact you are now using new longer/differant shaped UCA's for for increased tire drop I can see a problem. With allowing more tire drop the problem can be heard with a loud crack as your CV joint explodes.

We have seen it before here on this board where people with the lifts* that are on the market now have nuked their CV due to it binding. So if you are infact getting more drop from the front end via a new UCA then I hope you bring extra half shafts so that you can replace them when you granade them on the trail.

Note: *although I think the only people that have done this have been running the AC lift - The same lift that is notorious for killing the EOE tie rod centerlinks. Someone correct me if I am wrong.[/b]
Oh I will correct you:

For one their have only been two reported cv failures that I know of..one was Pikachu who was not running a lift and Stormy who had the AC lift so where are all these mysterious blown cv's?

There have been three people who have damaged an EOE tie rod adjuster, two of them had worn centerlinks with one that was hitting the frame and one worn so bad he broke two stock Nissan adjusters on the same trip. The other was Xtoolbox in which he was getting winched across the Golden Crack when he thought he damaged them. Out of over 200 sets that's not bad especially considering the circumstances, two out of the three people bought replacements...Gator is doing a solid axle swap.

I never hid the fact that I was selling AC's suspension lift, I use the same pictures from their website.

So it seems you must be agreeing with 4wd and Sport Utility magazine about no additional travel with the Calmini lift or are you carrying extra cv shafts? Does anyone have the August issue of that magazine, the online version is not the full article?
_________________________
FSRBIKER
97 TJ, 2" lift, 32's
69 Bronco, locked Dana 44, 35" MTR's, 5.5" lift
EOE...Opening Soon!

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#418557 - 28/05/02 07:48 AM Re: 3" lift
Carlton McMillan Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 2966
Loc: MN
Quote:
Originally posted by FSRBIKER:
Carlton the AC/Calmini braces prevent the slop in the bushing but do not prevent the arm from bending, I bent the stock one when my centerlink went.
I think they might prevent this though..



I don't think there is a brace for the MOOG.. or is there?
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SAS - It's what your Xterra wants for Christmas.

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#418558 - 28/05/02 08:03 AM Re: 3" lift
FSRBIKER Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 1001
Loc: Oak Ridge, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Carlton McMillan:
Quote:
Originally posted by FSRBIKER:
[b]Oh yea why would I slam Calmini? I just asked a question on RTI scores to see if anyone had them posted somewhere...
Posted by Todd FSR Biker:
"From the only review of Calmini's kit which was in 4 Wheel Drive & Sport Utility magazine there was not increase in articulation/travel up front...if this is true(and no one has denied it) then stay away from this kit unless you are going for looks..."

I don't know why you slammed them.[/b]
Why is this a slam? All I said was you gained no articulation/travel from their kit as stated in the magazines review. I NEVER made these statements myself, I just posted info from the article.
I have NOTHING AGAINST CALMINI nor SLR nor AC...stop stirring the pot, you are only going to start pissing off more manufactures and prevent more products from being developed because Xterra owners are quickly getting a reputation for complainers and that they love to bitch about new products.
_________________________
FSRBIKER
97 TJ, 2" lift, 32's
69 Bronco, locked Dana 44, 35" MTR's, 5.5" lift
EOE...Opening Soon!

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