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#440217 - 20/11/05 11:14 AM "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
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I recently bought a 46” CRT rear projection TV that has an HDMI port (a Sony KP46WT520)
I have a standard Sony DVD player (model DVP-NS50P) connected to it via component video cables using progressive scan at 720.

If I bought an “upconverting” DVD player that connects via the HDMI port and plays at 1080i, will I get better video quality (not in theory, but the actual human viewing experience?)
Upconversion to HD quality sounds like a good concept, but to the best of my knowledge DVD’s aren’t at a high enough resolution so I don’t know if it will really be any better.

So – 720p vs 1080i for viewing DVD’s: will it look any better? Is “upconverting” marketing BS or can it truly improve the the DVD viewing experience?

I’m considering something like this (when it comes on sale, of course…). Other suggestions are welcome:

Upconverting DVD player linky

Umm, I'm not really a Sony fanboy. How I ended up with all this Sony stuff is a long boring story.

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#440218 - 20/11/05 04:35 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
MaloCS Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/02
Posts: 1212
It's my opinion that an upconverting DVD player is slightly better then a regular DVD player. Here's the reason, better software. Just like enlarging an image in Photoshop, the better the software codec the better the results. You will not achieve TRUE high definition quality but the end result will theoretically be better.

There are many debates about this on the home theater forums I visit but from my experience I can see a slight difference. Just as I can see a slight difference between component cables and HDMI cables with HDMI cables being better. As with anything else in life different people have different opinions so the easiet way for you to experience this is to just buy the up converting DVD player and give it a trial. If you don't see an improvement just take it back.

Here's another tip for component cables or HDMI cables: buy them at Wal Mart. You can get them for pennies on the dollar compared to the big box or fancy electronics stores. I spent $39 on my HDMI cable from Uncle Walt when Circuit City, Best Buy and Ultimate Electronics wanted 3 to 4 times that amount.

Seriously, buy your cables at Wal Mart.

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#440219 - 20/11/05 05:43 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks MaloCS, I'll probably just give it a try, got nothing to loose...

Regarding cables - I agree CC BB etc are way over priced. Screw WalMart though, even there's was over $40 on their website.

Now THIS is more like it!!!:

$12 HDMI cable at Radio Shack LINKY

EDIT - HEY! The $12 cable (6') is discontinued and replaced with a $35 (12') cable. Looks like a local RS still has the $12 version in stock luckily. Maybe I'll buy 'em all up and sell 'em on e-bay wink

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#440220 - 21/11/05 08:13 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
The upconvert DVD is well worth it. Where are y'all getting these cheap cables from. What is the purpose of having HD with a DVD box capable of HD and then use cheap ineffective cables? My HDMI to DVI cable was around $100 and my DVI to DVI was around $90. Cheap cables will only take away from what you are attempting to do in the first place.

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#440221 - 21/11/05 08:55 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
jorge Offline
Member

Registered: 27/11/00
Posts: 1147
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
Cheap cables will only take away from what you are attempting to do in the first place.
Is that what the monster cable rep told you?

Especially when it comes to digital, the quality of the cable doesn't matter all too much.
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#440222 - 21/11/05 09:17 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Quote:
Originally posted by jorge:
Quote:
Originally posted by off2cjb:
[b]Cheap cables will only take away from what you are attempting to do in the first place.
Is that what the monster cable rep told you?

Especially when it comes to digital, the quality of the cable doesn't matter all too much.[/b]
Acutally Jorge, that is what every review and Home Theater magazine and site said as well. It really doesn't matter what you believe when it comes to this subject. You aren't the expert. I went to the experts and they weren't involved in selling the equipment. Maybe you ought to look at the specs concerning the cables before spewing forth. I understand there are times when people working commission wiil try and sell you something you don't need, but this isn't the time to be cheap.

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#440223 - 21/11/05 09:58 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
MaloCS Offline
Member

Registered: 18/04/02
Posts: 1212
off2cjb,

Don't get defensive. The best way to test inexpensive and expensive cables is to buy both and use each.

When I purchased my high def tv I did exactly that. I bought the $160 Monster HDMI cable from Circuit City and the $40 Philips HDMI cable from Wal Mart. I went home and watched the actions scenes from Saving Private Ryan, Terminator 2, Top Gun and Fast and the Furious. I rated the quality from 1 to 10 for each scene and then performed the same exact test after swapping the cables. I was surprised that the cheaper Philips cable from Wal Mart performed just as well as the more expensive Monster cable from Circuit City. Needless to say, the Monster cable went back to Circuit City the very next day.

After selecting the Philips HDMI cable I purchased a Philips component cable from Wal Mart for $30 and did the same exact test using the different types of cables. I noticed a slight decrease of noise in the picture when using the HDMI cable. Overall, the difference wasn't that drastic but for $10 I just decided to stay with the HDMI cable.

off2cjb, you stated that you went directly to the experts when getting your information. Well, so have I. I have researched the whole "cable quality" issue for many years, both in car audio and home audio. You will find differing opinions from different sources but the common denominator is insulation and installation. If your cable has adequate insulation and you route them correctly the amount of noise that degrades the signal is very low to non existent.

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#440224 - 21/11/05 10:13 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
2001frontier Offline
Member

Registered: 20/12/01
Posts: 4932
Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Analog signals are more affected by shielding and cable quality. A digital signal is a digital signal.

The upscaling DVD players often look better because they have a good deinterlacer in them. A quality 480p DVD player will look just as good, if not better IMO.
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#440225 - 21/11/05 10:36 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
To add to the cost comparison...

I worked at Circuit City about 8 years ago.

Monster Cables don't cost Circuit City but a pittance more than the cheap cables. Markup on those things are enormous.

You're paying for the name.
_________________________
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#440226 - 21/11/05 12:01 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
off2cjb Offline
Member

Registered: 23/10/00
Posts: 4557
Good point Malo, sorry about that Jorge. No reason for me to sound like a P!@#k.

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#440227 - 21/11/05 05:23 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for all the info guys - nice little debate there too!

I'm gonna go ahead and get an upconverting player (when it comes on sale), and the $12 radio shack 6' cable. Only 6', and nothing in between that could possibly mess with a digital signal anyway. I'll might get an expensive cable too (with the expectation that it will probably be returned) to do mine own little test.

Either way, the DVD player in my bedroom died, so the cheaper Sony currently attached to my 46" TV will be moved to the bedroom, so it won't be wasted anyway.

Thanks again!

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#440228 - 21/11/05 06:02 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Personally, I wouldn't pay extra for the up-conversion. If a DVD player in the price range you're looking in has it, then it doesn't hurt to get it. But I don't think it's a feature worth paying extra for. The video information is either there, or it isn't. So an upconvert is really just a guess as to what pixels might go there, to fill in the blank. Granted, it ought to be a darn good guess, but still...

I've been making do with a cheap DVD player for the past couple months, since my DVD-RW went out. I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a DVD player, when I know I'll be buying a nice one next year, when the new formats come out (High Definition capable DVD's, aka, Blue-Ray and/or DVD-HD). It didn't make sense to me to spend a couple hundred bucks, now, on something that will be obselete in a relatively short period of time.

As to the cables...

Analog signals need a very high quality shielding, to prevent stray noise/interference from messing with the signal. Digital feeds, however, don't have this problem. The signals are simply 0 and 1s. So the end machine either gets the 0 and 1s, or it doesn't. There is no in-between, or possibility of interference, as the equipment doesn't read anything other than the 0 and 1s from the digital source. You either get video and/or sound (depending on what equipment we're talking about), or you don't. There is no middle ground.

However, cheap cables usually mean cheap connectors and/or the possibility of wire breaks along the way. Especially with optical cables. If there's a break in an optical cable, it's useless. If there's a break in a copper/regular cable, it may not be useless, but it could cause some of the 0 and 1s to be lost along the way, which could result in some nice choppiness in what you're seeing/hearing. Very not cool. Same goes for the end connections; if they're not made well enough, then they don't do you any good, because they can't get a good enough connection to be reliable. But shielding on a digital source cable is NOT needed for signal quality.

That being said, though, I don't spend big $$ on cables alone. I've found that surprisingly, RCA makes some very well made cables for the money, if you have to have analog cables. Thiers are about 1/3rd the cost of Monster cables, and if you slice 'em open, you'll see that they have comperable shielding. You don't have to spend big $$ on cables, but you do have to make sure whatever cable you're getting is of good enough quality, that the ends will make a good connection, and that the cable itsself won't break/fray on the inside. Quality *usually* comes with more $$, but not always.

Good rule of thumb is expect to spend around 10% of your system costs in cables. So if you've got a $6,000 setup, expect to spend around $600 for all the cables hooking up the parts. Then again, I'm cheap, and only have about 5% into cables... I shop around to get good prices.. For instance, I paid ONLY $35 for my Monster HDMI to DVI cable to hook up the HD box... If you're careful and patient, you can find some extremely good prices...

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#440229 - 21/11/05 07:18 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
And to add...

Interference is much more problematic with audio than it is with video.

Try coiling an audio cable on a power cord...you might get some hum or noise. Do the same with video cable, and the effect is going to be minimal, if at all.

My preferred cabling... Canare.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#440230 - 21/11/05 07:56 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
gmaxis Offline
Member

Registered: 21/08/00
Posts: 2179
Loc: America's Finest city
I have a Samsung DVD-HD841 (refurb unit) and connected to a 42" DLP via supplied DVI cables. On occasions that my player works (it's picky and would sometimes not even read brand new DVDs) I can upconvert the DVI output from 720p to 1081I. But the difference in video quality is not as dramatic as I would expect. But since I got this one at a bargain price of $50, I'm not complaining.

Go ahead and spring for an upconverting dvd player ...just don't pay more than $100 for it.
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#440231 - 23/11/05 02:50 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Here's a good one:
So my wife happens to be running errands near the Radio Shack that has the $12 six foot HDMI cable in stock per their website. I call the store to confirm they really have the part, and they tell me they have three in stock.

So I give the part # to my wife and ask her to pick it up for me. When she gets there, guy searches all over, can't find them, and then tells her they must have been stolen!

Gotta love it! And so, the quest for the $12 HDMI cable comes to an end.

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#440232 - 22/12/05 12:44 AM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I don't feel that buying an upconvert dvd is worth it when HD DVD players are hitting the market now. Many movie makers have already publicised that they are going to start making movies and HD DVD and Blueray till the market decides which format they are going to use. As for cables. The cables in your home theater system should cost around 10% of the total price of your setup.

I bought all of my cables off of ebay. I found a lot of Acoustic Research cables very cheap.

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#440233 - 22/12/05 12:15 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by hype8912:
HD DVD players are hitting the market now.
Are they? Where? I didn't think they were coming out for a bit (especially because of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray battle).
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#440234 - 22/12/05 04:08 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by hype8912:
[b]HD DVD players are hitting the market now.
Are they? Where? I didn't think they were coming out for a bit (especially because of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray battle).[/b]
They're not hitting the market in the US, yet. But they are in Japan. I guess since hype didn't "technically" say which country, he's still right...

I don't know when the first players will be released in the US. All I've heard is, "First Quarter 2006". What suxs, is both will be available, and who's to say which format will win out.

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#440235 - 23/12/05 06:56 PM Re: "Upconverting" DVD players - worth it?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I ended up buying the upconverting sony NS70 a few weeks ago. I did side by side comparison with the NS50 using my 46" TV before moving the NS50 to the bedroom. The upconverting one connected with HDMI cable did look better that the non-upconverting connected with component cables. Not a huge difference, though, but noticible. But also, the NS70 had more/better/flexible setup options - definately higher end "guts" than the NS50.

When I was in best buy a while ago there was a manager type hanging out in the video department. He said they would be getting in blue ray or HD-DVD (dont remember which) in 2006, and the price was going to be $999.

So, sure, blue-ray/hd-dvd will be hitting the stores probably in the next few months. But it will be a few years until they hit that magic $200 price.

Incidently - I needed a DVD player now since one of mine died - so HD-DVD/Blue ray never really entered into the equation. I was just trying to figure out if it was worth the extra few $$ for up-converting, and it was.

Thanks for all the opinions/info everyone.

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