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#533347 - 17/05/07 07:40 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
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Quote:
Originally posted by porsche996:
Lloyd, I'm sorry you've had a terrible experience with Nissan. Nissan of just 3 years ago did not have this type of problem; I have yet to hear of anyone destroying an H233B rear differential. The newer vehicles Nissan has been putting out in the past few years have been geared towards the majority, and not the wheeling minority. Unfortunately, it's created rigs that do great on pavement, but are severely lacking in strength offroad, or for heavy duty work. It's unfortunate, but it's been working for Nissan on the sales end, so I don't see them changing their target audience in the future.

You'll probably get bashed for saying negatives about Nissan around here, so please, do yourself a favor and keep any negatives to the 05+ models, as the previous models do not suffer from this weak condition!
Good points. The lacky I talked to said a engineering defect must exist. I told him the SPECIFIC known defects, about how both diffs are smaller then the Gen I trucks yet with so much more power.......He just ignored me.

He also claimed(at first) the Xterra was not designed for off-road eek Ok...So that is why all marketing was geared to off-road....you have an off-road model with the most advanced drive system, clocked drivetrane, vast model improvements specifically for off-road and that big ole off-road sticker on the side :rolleyes:

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#533348 - 17/05/07 07:43 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


I really hate to see this thread. My dad was a farmer and since the early 80s drove nothing but Nissan pickups. Those things drove every other kind of pickup used in the area, including Toyotas, literally into the ground. My Xterra, which shares a lot of DNA with older Nissan pickups, has been flawless. The new X's looked great on paper. So great that I seriously considered trading in my '01. But after reading this, and hearing some of the other things I've heard, I'm glad I didn't.

I think I'll keep my '01 for a long while and keep my fingers crossed that when it is time for a replacement, Nissan will have pulled their heads out. If they don't improve I may find myself in a Toyota truck of some sort next time around.

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#533349 - 17/05/07 07:54 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Don't get a taco or FJ if you are looking at the weaknesses. The new body Tacomas have worse diffs than we do. They have a sticky on their site full of people who grenaded diffs going down the road w/ only about 15k miles. At least when I broke the spider gears on mine I was offroad on a pretty tough obstacle and not in an intersection like the taco's.

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#533350 - 17/05/07 08:47 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by bwarren228:
Don't get a taco or FJ if you are looking at the weaknesses. The new body Tacomas have worse diffs than we do. They have a sticky on their site full of people who grenaded diffs going down the road w/ only about 15k miles. At least when I broke the spider gears on mine I was offroad on a pretty tough obstacle and not in an intersection like the taco's.
I cruised the FJ site and did not see anything about major failures.(not saying I did not miss it) Just a bunch of minor, new model junk.

J/k would be interesting once they work out the electrical issues, and with a better motor or chip upgrade.....

Just did the NHTSA report and BBB report. Reports are quite limited as Nissan had been replacing under warranty.

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#533351 - 17/05/07 09:05 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
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hokieXterra22

Take a closer look. The incorrect labels are on the diagram, the photograph is labeled correctly. Differential

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#533352 - 17/05/07 09:06 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Lloyd Swartz:
Quote:
Originally posted by bwarren228:
[b]Don't get a taco or FJ if you are looking at the weaknesses. The new body Tacomas have worse diffs than we do. They have a sticky on their site full of people who grenaded diffs going down the road w/ only about 15k miles. At least when I broke the spider gears on mine I was offroad on a pretty tough obstacle and not in an intersection like the taco's.
I cruised the FJ site and did not see anything about major failures.(not saying I did not miss it) Just a bunch of minor, new model junk.

J/k would be interesting once they work out the electrical issues, and with a better motor or chip upgrade.....

Just did the NHTSA report and BBB report. Reports are quite limited as Nissan had been replacing under warranty.[/b]
Here it is... http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35345

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#533353 - 17/05/07 09:22 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lloyd,

You may already be aware of this Titan Driveline forum. It does have a link to a PDF of the NHSTA listing for Titan differential failures.

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#533354 - 17/05/07 10:19 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by GraniteX:
Lloyd,

You may already be aware of this Titan Driveline forum. It does have a link to a PDF of the NHSTA listing for Titan differential failures.
I did see that. Shockingly there were only like 85 reports, and NONE for the XTerra. The reason is probably that Nissan had been honoring the warranty, so few people got pissed enough to file a complaint. You COULD have counted me in that crowd. But I filed a complaint with NHSTA and the BBB. Fixing to run to the lawyer office now.

A quick calculation I think Nissan is probably out 25M in diff repairs so far, so I can see where they are in O SH!T mode. My guess is liability lies in both Nissan and Dana, so its probably a mess.

The Tacoma thing is interesting, in that it is mostly E-Lockers also...Hmmm......

I also see the Titan crisis as appearing sooner and greater as the truck came out 1 year earlier, and there are alot of people towing. For the Gen II X, it is more of a matter of 4-wheeling, not towing, and the older the rig the more likely people are to wheel it. Heck, even mine sat un-wheeled for 1.5yrs until I started prepping it. So the crisis is just starting to brew on the X side. But a failure of this nature could be 100s of Millions of dollars eek

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#533355 - 17/05/07 01:36 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


xterraracer,

I am curious about how you identified RiNkY's differential as a 4 spider diff. The service manuals for 05 thru 07 indicate that there are only 2 "pinion gears" in the locking differential for the XTerra (and the Titan also) - Nissan refers to the spider gears as "Pinion Mate Gears". Also for the locking diff the "differential case assembly" which contains the spider (pinion mate gears) and the side gears is a non repairable part (as you stated) and cannot be disassembled.

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#533356 - 17/05/07 02:27 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Some interesting but perhaps not very useful information, the 350Z R200V limited slip differential is a 4 spider (pinion mate) unit. Part number 38425 are the spider gears.

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#533357 - 17/05/07 02:59 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


GraniteX... yea sorry i was looking at the picture.

im not sure if anyone will know this but how strong is the non locking C200 rear diff that is in the S model? and does it have 2 or 4 spider gears?

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#533358 - 17/05/07 03:52 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


hokieXterra22 ,

The C200 is 2 spider.

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#533359 - 17/05/07 03:59 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


I got an easy fix. Chromoly axle shafts and about 5 lbs of Weld sticks. laugh


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#533360 - 17/05/07 05:10 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


GraniteX wrote;
"I am curious about how you identified RiNkY's differential as a 4 spider diff. The service manuals for 05 thru 07 indicate that there are only 2 "pinion gears" in the locking differential for the XTerra (and the Titan also) - Nissan refers to the spider gears as "Pinion Mate Gears". Also for the locking diff the "differential case assembly" which contains the spider (pinion mate gears) and the side gears is a non repairable part (as you stated) and cannot be disassembled."

Reply;
If you look at the picture you see that the housing is closed. That you have to remove the ring gear and then you can split the case to get at the spiders. On the the 2 spider diff, it has a large opening on both sides. That allows you to see the spiders, cross shaft etc. On the 4 spider diff, the case has to be closed so the other 2 shafts have material to be mounted into. The difference is so plain that once you understand it you too can tell at a glance.

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#533361 - 17/05/07 05:25 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by hokieXterra22:

im not sure if anyone will know this but how strong is the non locking C200 rear diff that is in the S model? and does it have 2 or 4 spider gears?
Reply;
The C200 is smaller in every aspect. The ones I've been into have only been 2 spider. But on the other hand if they don't have the machined down axle end gear, it may be more reliable.

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#533362 - 17/05/07 05:47 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


2005 OFFROAD has a 2 spider/ changed to 4 spider for 2006-2007 OR
Info from Project X2/nissan
from there learnings . laugh

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#533363 - 17/05/07 06:27 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Onix:
2005 OFFROAD has a 2 spider/ changed to 4 spider for 2006-2007 OR
Info from Project X2/nissan
from there learnings . laugh
Ok, with that in mind how many 06-07 people have blown rear diffs?

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#533364 - 17/05/07 07:58 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by RiNkY:
Awesome - Nice to know I have the stronger version. smile
I'm not so sure of your conclussion on the '05 only having the 2 spider diff.

Both RiNky and I have '05s with 4 spider diffs.

Another fact; I ordered a new rear end for my racer and got an '06 M226. When I opened it up it only had 2 spiders in it and it was a e-locker. This was the rear end I ran at the Parker race. It made 137 race miles and broke the spiders. "So go figure"

So Lloyd, you might only have (2) broken spiders. That is really more like what you discribed as what you heard.

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#533365 - 17/05/07 08:05 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Mine is a late 05 build tho - October 05! Maybe first part of 05 they did the 2 spider!

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#533366 - 18/05/07 07:54 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by xterraracer:
[b]GraniteX wrote;
"I am curious about how you identified RiNkY's differential as a 4 spider diff. The service manuals for 05 thru 07 indicate that there are only 2 "pinion gears" in the locking differential for the XTerra (and the Titan also) - Nissan refers to the spider gears as "Pinion Mate Gears". Also for the locking diff the "differential case assembly" which contains the spider (pinion mate gears) and the side gears is a non repairable part (as you stated) and cannot be disassembled."

Reply;
If you look at the picture you see that the housing is closed. That you have to remove the ring gear and then you can split the case to get at the spiders. On the the 2 spider diff, it has a large opening on both sides. That allows you to see the spiders, cross shaft etc. On the 4 spider diff, the case has to be closed so the other 2 shafts have material to be mounted into. The difference is so plain that once you understand it you too can tell at a glance.[/b]
Hmmm, I am going to have to pull my cover again and look. I have a rather early 05 build of March 05.

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#533367 - 18/05/07 09:06 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


The 2 spider gear situation would definately explain it, what a rediculous design. I realize none of you were at the hill when mine blew, but you cannot emagine how easy they broke and how little noise it made. People watching were amazed it broke.

So the 4 spiders should be tremendously stronger? But yet Xterra Racer is still chewing through them in races?

Hopefully I can get a letter faxed off to Nissan today and kick them in the butt. Clearly if I have a 2 spider gear diff they dont have a gear to stand on!

Oh, and I wanted to thank everyone for how nicely this string has gone, trying to work out a very complex problem so everyone knows what to expect, what needs fixed, and how to advise Nissan.

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#533368 - 18/05/07 10:41 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Very disconcerting to hear about so many broken Xs and Nissan's lack of support. I may reluctantly sell my 33" tires and go back to stock size.

For those of you fighting Nissan, I finally had success after a prolonged struggle to get them to give me an alloy spare wheel (mine came with a steel spare - was supposed to have been alloy). The bad news is that it took a lot of time.

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#533369 - 18/05/07 10:49 AM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by D.B. Cooper:
Very disconcerting to hear about so many broken Xs and Nissan's lack of support. I may reluctantly sell my 33" tires and go back to stock size.

For those of you fighting Nissan, I finally had success after a prolonged struggle to get them to give me an alloy spare wheel (mine came with a steel spare - was supposed to have been alloy). The bad news is that it took a lot of time.
Just an FYI both front and rear diffs have been broken with the stock 32" tires. 1" over is NOTHING. So that wont save you. With BASIC over engineering our diffs should be good to 35". If we are breaking with stock 32" tires that means they are engineered for????

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#533370 - 18/05/07 12:26 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Note to all;
The 4 spider diff made over 700 race miles before it broke the splines on the axle end gear. It will take more than normal offroading to break one. I run at speed on the gas on and off the ground non stop.

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#533371 - 18/05/07 01:30 PM Re: Add my Rear Diff to the collection
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by xterraracer:
[b]Note to all;
The 4 spider diff made over 700 race miles before it broke the splines on the axle end gear. It will take more than normal offroading to break one. I run at speed on the gas on and off the ground non stop.[/b]
Sorry, I looked, but what size tires are you racing?

2 points. First, while racing is sure MUCH harder then what we do on average, rockcrawling would see some stresses similar to racing, however on a limited basis and maybe some stresses you dont see. The other point would be I think most people aspire to 35" tires eventually.

So, so far for the rear diff 05 people will need to get them replaced when they explode with 4 spider diffs, and then we should be ok for a 33" tire or so?

Then a future upgrade to hit 35s?

Now to get what 14,000 diffs replaced under warranty for 05 Xterras eek 72M or so! eek

More food for thought....Will this result in war between Nissan and Dana? Such as with Navistar and Ford? Did Nissan ask for a cheap diff? or.... Did Dana short change Nissan on engineering?......

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