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#591933 - 21/04/08 07:46 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
BlueSky Online   content
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Registered: 17/08/00
Posts: 2286
Loc: Georgia
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
Quote:
Originally posted by jorge:

[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Desert_Rat:
[qb]Second, you are a racist, by any definition. So I was stating a fact.
Jorge....

Desert Rat is NOT a racist. You are just calling him a racist in an attempt to stifle debate. It's a juvenile tactic and I think you can do better than that.

[/b]
Pot, meet kettle.

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#591934 - 21/04/08 07:48 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
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Posts: 8374
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Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:


Regarding the others here in this thread who are making ridiculous claims that socialism is somehow a good thing, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.


I never said it was good...just that it can work. If anyone should be ashamed, it's those who advocate letting those less fortunate to fend for themselves...in other words, "fuck them if they can't afford it."

Quote:
If you think it is so wonderful, I'm sure you are more than welcome and have sufficient freedom to leave the US and enjoy socialism in the countries that practice it.
Ah yes...should have known THAT argument would come out eventually.

Quote:
Socialism is unsustainable. It is also antithetical to the entire concept of the American experience. Socialism disregards and loathes the individual in favor of the collective. In favor of the state.
Tell you what...let's get rid of the military hospitals, too. Screw the soldiers. If they can't afford insurance...tough shit.

Quote:
The prime reason for "American exceptionalism" has been because our society is based on the individual and not the collective. That is what has made America the most superior society to be developed by man so far.
Depends on what you mean by most superior. Strongest militarily...sure. Highest standard of living...hardly.

Quote:
People that advocate socialism hold a deep disdain for their fellow man
What a load of bullshit. People who advocate socialism - want to help their fellow man. People who advocate unlimited capitalism...THOSE are the ones who don't give a shit about their fellow man.

Quote:
It has been correctly said that a person's love and admiration for the state and the collective power of the state is directly congruent to their contempt for their fellow man.
:rolleyes:
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591935 - 21/04/08 07:50 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by ChefTyler:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by ChefTyler:
Sorry, socialism doesn't work, and yes it is a negative thing. Try again.
Might want to talk to a couple of the Scandinavian countries. Finland comes to mind.[/b]
Let's see, we can go a much shorter distance. Head North to Canada and go to an ER and tell me it works.[/b]
never said it didn't have its share of problems. But it works in Finland. Yes, there are some private options in Finland...but they are a very small percentage of the system.

Nobody in Finland pays tuition. That goes from beginning to end - including doctorate work.

Ok, so if I lived in Finland, my entire life I'm working to put other people through school even though I decide to stop after an undergraduate degree. Fuck that, if someone wants to further their education they can damn well fund it themselves, not depend on me and the rest of the country to do it for them. No thanks.

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#591936 - 21/04/08 07:53 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
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Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:
OK, Jorge. Point out one thing I've said that makes me a racist and I'll give in to your unfounded comments.
You're kidding, right?

Quote:
The only people I really can't stand are Arabs and Persians. What a collective bunch of douchebags.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591937 - 21/04/08 07:58 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
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Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by ChefTyler:
Ok, so if I lived in Finland, my entire life I'm working to put other people through school even though I decide to stop after an undergraduate degree. Fuck that, if someone wants to further their education they can damn well fund it themselves, not depend on me and the rest of the country to do it for them. No thanks.
And yet they have a VERY high standard of living.

Let me ask you this...

Do you fight having to pay taxes that pay for schools here?

Do you fight having to pay taxes that pay for the fire department, even if you've never had to call them?

It is YOUR choice to not go on to more education. A large percentage of Fins go for it. If it's paid for, why the hell would you NOT go on? You know...better your standing and all.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591938 - 21/04/08 08:27 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:
[b]OK, Jorge. Point out one thing I've said that makes me a racist and I'll give in to your unfounded comments.
You're kidding, right?

Quote:
The only people I really can't stand are Arabs and Persians. What a collective bunch of douchebags.
[/b]
Well, asshat. Since Arabs and Persians are caucasions, that's not really a racist comment, is it? Besides, go back to where that was posted and put it in context. That was comment just to stab at Shahram. Then again, it figures you have to go find something and take it completely out of context to use against me. Maybe you should be working for Hillary Clinton's campaign.

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#591939 - 21/04/08 08:41 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

I never said it was good...just that it can work. If anyone should be ashamed, it's those who advocate letting those less fortunate to fend for themselves...in other words, "fuck them if they can't afford it."
Taxes exist to pay for government services... military, police, sanitation, etc.

They do not exist to take money from some in order so others can live off the labor of others in a consequence and responsibility free welfare state for life.

The problem with the term "unfortunate" for socialist types such as yourself is that it is used as a broad term to include a wide swath of people from the lazy to even meaning people born with a certain skin color.

It also completely disregards the teeming opportunities available to everyone in our society. It completely disregards the choices people have in our free society... mainly the choice to be lazy.

In the perverted mind of American socialists, the state is supposed to subsidize destructive behavior choices.

Quote:
Ah yes...should have known THAT argument would come out eventually.
It's a valid argument. If you love socialism so much, move somewhere that has a socialized system. Don't try to fuck over everyone else here in this country and take away what others have worked for.

Quote:
Tell you what...let's get rid of the military hospitals, too. Screw the soldiers. If they can't afford insurance...tough shit.
Tell you what, let's keep the military hospitals because soldiers provide a valuable service to society. The taxpayers are not wasting money by spending it on soldiers.

Let's dismantle the welfare state and decrease dependency on government instead of increasing it.

But then again, the left only cares about political power and increasing dependency on government. It has NOTHING to do with concern for their fellow man. It is all about the power of the state over the people.

Quote:
Depends on what you mean by most superior. Strongest militarily...sure. Highest standard of living...hardly.
Typical answer from someone on the left.

That is one of the biggest problems with the left. You don't see "American exceptionalism". Your ideology is guided only because you see the world through a completely negative lens.

Quote:
What a load of bullshit. People who advocate socialism - want to help their fellow man. People who advocate unlimited capitalism...THOSE are the ones who don't give a shit about their fellow man.
You are full of shit. Socialism has nothing to do with helping other people. Socialism is nothing but an ideology of hate. Hatred for your fellow man.

You can kid yourselves all want by claiming it is cloaked in compassion or "fairness", but it is not. There is nothing compassionate or fair about the collectivist mind.

The road to hell is always paved with good intentions.

A person's love and admiration for the state and the collective power of the state is directly congruent to their contempt for their fellow man.

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#591940 - 21/04/08 08:49 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

It is YOUR choice to not go on to more education. A large percentage of Fins go for it. If it's paid for, why the hell would you NOT go on? You know...better your standing and all.
Education is free in this country to high school. Even beyond, there are numerous programs that will pay for higher education for many using both private and public money.

Yet, many irresponsible people don't even bother completing high school. Here in NY half of them quit.

Then Democrats want to create a socialist welfare state where others are forced to take care of them because of their destructive personal choices.

We NEVER hear leftists and socialists talking about personal responsibility.

Everyone becomes a victim and on top of these "victims" they will create the socialist state.

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#591941 - 21/04/08 09:03 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by ChefTyler:
[b]Ok, so if I lived in Finland, my entire life I'm working to put other people through school even though I decide to stop after an undergraduate degree. Fuck that, if someone wants to further their education they can damn well fund it themselves, not depend on me and the rest of the country to do it for them. No thanks.
And yet they have a VERY high standard of living.

Let me ask you this...

Do you fight having to pay taxes that pay for schools here?

Do you fight having to pay taxes that pay for the fire department, even if you've never had to call them?

It is YOUR choice to not go on to more education. A large percentage of Fins go for it. If it's paid for, why the hell would you NOT go on? You know...better your standing and all.[/b]
I have no issues with funding public school through high school, after that I have no desire to pay for tuition for others.
I have no issues paying taxes to fund the police and fire departments or the military, they provide protection.
If most people in a country end up getting graduate degrees and doctorates that doesn't improve my standing, it puts me back at equal standing. Again, no thanks.

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#591942 - 21/04/08 09:29 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


What I've learned so far:

If you speak out against Obama, you're a racist.
If you don't support social medicine, you hate your fellow man.
Personal responsibility is a bad thing.
If you work hard to get ahead, what you make should be redistributed to the lazy and the poor.
You should pay twice the income tax you pay now so everyone can go to the doctor for free.
We should discontinue all support of veterans.

Lefties, does that about sum it up?

I'm sure glad that at least half of the population of this country still has a clue about the principles this country was founded upon, because you guys sure as hell don't.

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#591943 - 21/04/08 09:34 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida

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#591944 - 21/04/08 09:50 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:
What I've learned so far:

If you speak out against Obama, you're a racist.
If you don't support social medicine, you hate your fellow man.
Personal responsibility is a bad thing.
If you work hard to get ahead, what you make should be redistributed to the lazy and the poor.
You should pay twice the income tax you pay now so everyone can go to the doctor for free.
We should discontinue all support of veterans.

Lefties, does that about sum it up?

I'm sure glad that at least half of the population of this country still has a clue about the principles this country was founded upon, because you guys sure as hell don't.
Nice. Since you decided to call me asshat for pointing out the racist comment (oh wait...would you prefer "bigoted"?)...you turn around and become quite the hypocrite.

Context much?

Which half are you talking about? The half that pulls that bullshit "if you don't like it, you can leave"?
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591945 - 21/04/08 09:52 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Oh wait...maybe you are talking about the half that has no problem with the government spying on them.

:rolleyes:
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591946 - 21/04/08 11:07 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


What, now I'm a bigot because I disagree with liberal thought?

Now you're just not making any sense.

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#591947 - 21/04/08 11:23 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:

Now you're just not making any sense.
Well.... You are talking about a guy who thinks the government is spying on him.

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#591948 - 21/04/08 11:27 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Barack to the topic.... the election....




What they all have in common is that they all hate America.... they are all totalitarians.... AND....

They all endorse Barack Hussein Obama for president.

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#591949 - 21/04/08 11:44 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
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I have to admit...the "Obamessiah" bit was pretty funny.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591950 - 21/04/08 11:54 AM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Desert_Rat:
What I've learned so far:

If you speak out against Obama, you're a racist.
If you don't support social medicine, you hate your fellow man.
Personal responsibility is a bad thing.
If you work hard to get ahead, what you make should be redistributed to the lazy and the poor.
You should pay twice the income tax you pay now so everyone can go to the doctor for free.
We should discontinue all support of veterans.

Lefties, does that about sum it up?

I'm sure glad that at least half of the population of this country still has a clue about the principles this country was founded upon, because you guys sure as hell don't.
umm, no not really,

I agree to an extent to your argument. What I do want is everyone starting out at the same level. Every American gets born with the same opportunities. From there we get to choose if we flunk out and stuff like that. What you do not understand DR, is that some individuals DO not have a choice. They are working such a low level job that they cannot afford it. or choose to stay on welfare so that their kid won't grow up on the streets. Heck these days, these people receive the same amount of money if they worked or stayed on welfare. Go figure why there so many. It's not because they are lazy.

You pay Taxes, let the government sort where it goes out. OK I have a question, DO you support the war in Iraq? OK bad question I take it as you do. SO why do you support improving the lives of so many people in different country, yet you support everyone for himself, if you grew up disadvantaged, then your screwed, on your own, gotta figure it out urself mentality. YET you support paying over 1b a day to help the Iraqi people cmon.

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#591951 - 21/04/08 12:12 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
GrayHam Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/01
Posts: 8849
Quote:
Originally posted by Yasha:
I agree to an extent to your argument. What I do want is everyone starting out at the same level. Every American gets born with the same opportunities.


Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too.
_________________________
Does anybody remember laughter?

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#591952 - 21/04/08 12:17 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


one more thing DR, just because I don't believe in what you believe I should go somewhere else, FUCK you. how about you move out to Russia. The beauty of this country is that it is dynamic it changes, I believe it should go one way, you believe it should go another. Be happy you can say it.

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#591953 - 21/04/08 12:17 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:

I have to admit...the "Obamessiah" bit was pretty funny.
In reality it's actually sad.

The left has made Obama into a cult like "messiah" figure.

He has no where to go but downhill even if he ever did mange to become president.

Obama is like a Jimmy Carter with melanin... only far worse.

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#591954 - 21/04/08 12:34 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
NY Madman Offline
Member
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Yasha:

What I do want is everyone starting out at the same level. Every American gets born with the same opportunities.
Everyone in this country is born at the same level with the same opportunities. Some may be born into families with more money, but everyone has the same opportunities.

In the United States the cause of poverty is behavior. That is something you people on the left intentionally ignore.

There are three causes for poverty in the United States...

.... Not finishing high school
.... Having children while still in your teens
.... Having children with the above conditions without being married.

Behavior is the cause of poverty. Government cannot change behavior. It is even getting worse. We have a perverse culture working it's way in minority and non-white communities where education and conventional success equate to "acting white". That is a form of failure born of hate.

You people on the left do NOTHING to address any of these behavioral issues. In fact you do everything you can to exasperate these problems.

Government is not the answer. Government is the problem. Changing behavior is the answer. Changing the low life values or lack of values in some minority communities is the answer.

That is "change" you will never discussed by Obama.

In life, everyone has choices. Most especially in the United States.

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#591955 - 21/04/08 12:47 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Yasha:
one more thing DR, just because I don't believe in what you believe I should go somewhere else, FUCK you. how about you move out to Russia. The beauty of this country is that it is dynamic it changes, I believe it should go one way, you believe it should go another. Be happy you can say it.
There you go, Yasha. You just solved your own conundrum. You don't have those freedoms in Russia. Why on earth would you want to change this country to be more and more like that? How well did Russia work under their brand of socialism? How productive is a country with no individual motivation to get ahead?

Idealism is one thing. Reality is another. Idealism is great when everyone puts forth an equal effort to be successful. If everyone in this country did that, there wouldn't be people in poverty. That's not the case though. There are people here much smarter than others, and much more ambitious than others. If you drag those poeple down and force them to support everyone else, you end up with a failed experiment just like the Soviet Union.

Prove me wrong and then throw out the Fuck You's at me.

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#591956 - 21/04/08 02:47 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Mobycat Offline
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Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:

There are three causes for poverty in the United States...

.... Not finishing high school
.... Having children while still in your teens
.... Having children with the above conditions without being married.
You think these are the only reasons?

How about things like this...

Connersville, Indiana - Visteon shuts down factory.
Muncie, Indiana - Borg-Warner shuts down factory.
Richmond, Indiana - Belden corporation lays off 130 people.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#591957 - 21/04/08 02:52 PM Re: Man enough to admit I've got ED..
Anonymous
Unregistered


A factory closure shouldn't be a source of permanent poverty if its workers are resilient and have an instinct to survive rather than staying in the same old town wallowing in self pity.

The ambitious and the intelligent will always find success. It's more character than circumstance.

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