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#606433 - 10/05/07 02:32 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Upon further review of "Golden Retriever Attack" - the majority of stories revolve around Goldens getting attacked and ripped to shreds by......you guessed it - pit bulls.
Wish I was filming the day I had been walking my Akita (on a leash) in a public park, when a moron with his equally moronic Golden Retriever, allowed his dog to walk right up to Shoki's face, whereupon he (moron dog) growled and snapped at Shoki. "Oh, I didn't know he'd do that.." was moron humans response.
What kind of dog do you own again Kevin?

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#606434 - 10/05/07 02:46 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


As to the "most popular" dog breed, it would be awfully difficult for anyone to say with certainty if "pit-bull mix" dogs are or are not the most numerous, 'cause frankly, the majority of "mutt" owners in general don't have any means of being tracked.

From looking at the AKC registrations, you can see that the following dogs that are commonly called, "Pit Bulls," by the previously defined stupid Americans are:

Boxer - #7
Bull Terrier - #61
American Staffordshire Terrier - #66
Staffordshire Bull Terrier - #80

AKC 2006 registration rankings

There's no ranking for "American Pit Bull," because that's not a breed the AKC recognizes, so all of the rankings that are out there, and based on the AKC rankings are useless. An Amstaff is different than a APBT, even though some dogs can be registered as an Amstaff to the AKC, and a APBT to other registration organizations.

I would also go with the assumption that the majority of "pit bull" owners are not registered with the AKC, or any association for that matter... It is not usually a purebreed & registered APBT or Amstaff that is involved in attack incidence.

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#606435 - 10/05/07 02:58 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Auditor_Kevin:
Quote:
Originally posted by porsche996:
[b] What I'm saying is, a dog biting/attacking has virtually nothing to do with what breed it is, but rather has everything to do with how its raised. It's a learned behavior, NOT a genetic one.

What about the story I just linked to? The attack that happened two days ago in a community 20 minutes from my house (I linked to it on the last page)?

I sincerely doubt that the owner trained that pit bull to crash through closed doors and go on killing sprees in other people's homes.

Sounds to me like a clear cut case of a pit doing what a pit was bred to do. Pure genetics at work.

Again - this isn't sensationalizing at all. I'm using an example that happened less than 48 hours ago in my own county of residence.[/b]
It was a screen door...

Let me give you something to think about. About 3 years ago, I was at my in-laws house. Our two pugs were with us. The older one (incidentally, the one that died last week) all-the-sudden shot out of the living room, through the screen door w/o even slowing down or missing a step, grabbed a cat in its mouth, and then both animals fell off the deck, 'cause Peanut's momentum was WAY too much for him to stop...

Was it because I trained him to, "crash through closed doors and go on killing spree"? Was it poor ownership? Probably not. In my particular case, it turns out that Peanuts just plain didn't like that f*ing cat. He never had any problems around any other cat; just that 1.

I don't know what happened in your county with this particular dog-on-dog attack. It could have been similiar to my situation, where 1 dog just plain didn't like the other one, and took care of business. Or it could have been something different.

But I can say one thing with certainty: it had nothing to do with what breed of dog it was that caused it to "break in" to the house and attack the other dog. There was something mentally going on between those two dogs, not genetically, that caused the attack in the first place.

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#606436 - 10/05/07 03:15 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


Couple quick hit thoughts:

First of all auditor, who gives a crap that the attack happened in your area.

Everyone keeps harping that the most popular breeds don't include pit bulls so that the attack number per capita is huge. What you aren't realizing (and should be thanks to the find a pit quiz link reference earlier) is that pit bull isn't a breed, but a category. When you search a list and see german shepherd or golden, you aren't going to find pit. You will have to add up all the different breeds' numbers to get an accurate count of "pit bulls." Do this and the attack per capita is no more shocking that german shepherds and akitas.

Also, when NYMM says "Are you trying to say that bad and lazy people tend to gravitate toward owning Pit Bull type dogs and Rotts?", that is exactly the case. Pit bulls have a negative image and if you are trying to own a dog for a less than savory purpose, you go with what you know. Someone trying to train a junkyard dog isn't going to spend time researching or paying the high price of a trainable purebred. They're going off of perception and availability. Pit bull covers a huge swath of breeds and most are a mix. These dogs don't have to come from a breeder, but can be found at rescue shelters. To someone looking for an intimidating dog, a "pit" can be found easily and will have the desired effect since apparently 90% of the population (as evidenced by this board alone) are afraid of these killers.

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#606437 - 10/05/07 03:21 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


While I have contributed nothing to this thread, it appears to me a lot of exchanges are based on personal views. My proposal is to go back to the Rosie discussion and talk about something really important.

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#606438 - 11/05/07 05:46 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


"Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals - coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds live to chase and maul rabbits and even dog-like coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will slaughter a rabbit, given the chance.

And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the pit bulldog. His work through the years has been control of other animals - never humans. A correct pit bull is more often than not submissive toward all humans, and adores children.

A pit bull that snarls, lunges or growls at non-threatening humans is NOT typical of the breed." (Written by Diane Jessup)
Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans are not typical of the breed and should be humanely euthanized.

Understanding the pit bull's possible dog aggression is a necessary part of responsible ownership.

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#606439 - 11/05/07 07:20 AM Re: Pit Bulls
xterraintx Offline
Member

Registered: 23/12/00
Posts: 2352
Loc: Eddy, TX..
I wonder if a Pit can "Beat a dead horse to death " too wink smile [Finger]
_________________________
"Caribbean Soul land locked in Texas" frown

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#606440 - 11/05/07 07:36 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Auditor_Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Dundee, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by DBAX:
Wish I was filming the day I had been walking my Akita (on a leash) in a public park, when a moron with his equally moronic Golden Retriever, allowed his dog to walk right up to Shoki's face, whereupon he (moron dog) growled and snapped at Shoki. "Oh, I didn't know he'd do that.." was moron humans response.
What kind of dog do you own again Kevin?
Hey, I've never said the breed is perfect and always predictable. But the incidents that DO occur with Goldens are far less often and when they do occur, usually involve far less damage in comparison to pit bulls.

Akitas can be some pretty nasty dogs, too, but the ones I've come across seem to be exponentially smarter than the typical pit bulls I've interacted with.

Again, both of our interactions are based on anecdotes - so take it for what it's worth.

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#606441 - 11/05/07 07:42 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Auditor_Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Dundee, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by RocketX:
Couple quick hit thoughts:

First of all auditor, who gives a crap that the attack happened in your area.

Well......me? Being a strong supporter of strengthening the laws on owning viscious breeds in my area, every local incident is worthy of note.

When I can pull out examples of "pits gone wild" less than 48 hours old and in my immediate area, I think it also demonstrates vividly to the participants of the thread just how often these attacks are occuring.

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#606442 - 12/05/07 08:16 PM Re: Pit Bulls
xterra3202 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Georgia
I can pull the same stuff on just about any other type of dog!!!!

Thats just as dumb as saying that Great White Sharks have the most amount of human attacks so lets go kill them even though we kill millions of sharks compared to a few people a year!!!!

Tim
_________________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrannts."

Thomas Jefferson

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#606443 - 13/05/07 06:34 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Big Daddy Chia Offline
Member

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 4442
Loc: Austin, TX
are ya'll still arguing about this.
_________________________
Scott "Chia" Holland
"God created man. Sam Colt made them equal"

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#606444 - 13/05/07 07:32 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


[Smoking] Yep its like the question:
Should Vegetarians eat animal crackers?

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#606445 - 13/05/07 01:57 PM Re: Pit Bulls
DocNo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/01
Posts: 3150
Loc: NoVA
Quote:
Originally posted by porsche996:
It's a learned behavior, NOT a genetic one.
Ruh-roh....

How can you tell a good breeder from a mere average breeder, or worse a for profit only backyard breeder?

One that actively focuses on their bloodlines and genetics, and breeds for temperament as much as looks.

Certain breeds were breed, often for centuries, for certain tasks.

I subscribe to a local CSA . They have a great peranese. Sweetest dog in the world - on open house days, kids will be hanging all over it - an aside from looking pained smile it would never do anything (and hasn't in over 10 years). But bring any animal - including another dog - into her territory and it's dead. They specifically warn people to NOT bring their animals with them to the farm. It's a working breed, and has been used by farmers for centuries to protect their farms. It's genetic, and it's part of the breeds temperament. Every try to keep a boarder collie from herding small animals or kids? I have friends with BC's and it's fun to watch them freak out while the kids are playing soccer smile

You can rationalize all you want - but if you have kids, or there are kids in your neighborhood and you own a pit bull, your an idiot. Probably going to piss some people off - oh well. There are reasonable risks in life, and there are unreasonable risks. There are too many breeds out there to have to "prove a point" by potentially mauling a child or someone else. The statistics and body of evidence simply aren't on your side. Do idiot owners who intently make their dogs anti-social worsen the situation? Sure - doesn't take rocket science to see that. But it's far from being the sole factor.
_________________________
Murderous Fire!

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#606446 - 15/05/07 08:28 AM Re: Pit Bulls
xterra3202 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Georgia
Lets see here:

65 Million Dogs in the USA.

Roughly 2% of the US population is bitten a year

of that 800,000 require medical care.

368,000 go to the ER for treatment. (not just bactin and a band aid)

1 in 151,565 of dying by a dog.

From 1979 to 1996 304 people were killed by dogs...wow!!!! thats a whopping roughly 18 people a year DAMN!!!!!!!! Here are some pretty good examples of bad dogs....or stupid ass people.

A man was bitten in the forearm by a Pit bull. The bite was not serious but introduced into the wound was a virulent and fast spreading bacteria. The man died 4 days later from this virulent bacterial infection.

A teenage girl give birth to a infant, distraught and frightened, she tossed the hours-old infant into a neighboring-junk-strewn yard where two Pit bulls resided. The dogs killed the newborn.

A German shepherd mixed breed dog went into a bedroom, lifted a newborn out of a crib and carried the infant (by the head) into the living room where the adults were seated.

A man restrains his girlfriend, while ordering his Pit bull to repeatedly attack her. He is eventually convicted of murder and is serving a 20-year sentence.

An elderly man attempts to stop his German Shepherd dog from fence fighting with his neighbor's dog, the dog turns on his owner, severely mauling him, inflicting fatal head and neck wounds.

Lets do some more stats shall we now:

You stand a better chance of dying from the following than from a dog:

Railway accident 1:6170
Motor Vehicle 1:80
Pedestrian 1:578
Drowning 1:7401
Bee Sting 1:77466
Volcanic Eruption 1:83000
Bathtub 1:10564
Suicide 1:113
Death Sentence 1:10344

So it looks like we have lots of other worries like a Volcanic Eruption to worry about as opposed to a dog killing ya!!!!!

Now for the sobering reality:

In 1997 alone there were:

56% of dogs that are sheltered are euthanized

only 15% of dogs are reunited with their families

only 25% of dogs are adopted

That comes out to 9.6 million animals (dogs and cats) killed each single YEAR in the US.

Even if a modest 20% of those are dogs (which is acutally much higher) 1,920,000 dogs are killed by humans each year.

So we have 18 humans killed by dogs a year versus 1.9 million of them......sounds like we should be protecting dogs from humans and not the other way around huh!!!!!

Tim
_________________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrannts."

Thomas Jefferson

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#606447 - 15/05/07 10:50 AM Re: Pit Bulls
great pyr-hauler Offline
Member

Registered: 17/04/03
Posts: 347
Loc: Illinois
Toddler's mother charged
By Nita Birmingham (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Saturday, May 12, 2007

A Dorchester County sheriff's detective on Friday arrested the mother of a toddler fatally mauled by the family's pit bull but said the criminal charge of unlawful conduct goes beyond the animal attack.

The Department of Social Services had a long-term involvement with Natasha Wilson's family, Detective John Garrison said, though he declined to be more specific.

"There's so many things involved in this. The animal attack made it a tragedy. The crime still existed," Garrison said.

Unlawful conduct toward a child includes abandoning a child; risking life;,physical or mental health or safety; and inflicting physical harm. It's a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

The affidavit states that Wilson put her 18-month-old son, Brian Palmer, at unreasonable risk of harm by leaving him in the care of other young children in a home with a violent animal.

Wilson, 24, surrendered to sheriff's deputies around noon Friday. Magistrate Tera Richardson set bail at $25,000. Wilson made no comment during a teleconference appearance from the jail.

Wilson had gone to see about some rental housing April 23 when Brian was attacked by the 2-year-old pit bull. The 60-pound dog was a stray taken in by Wilson about seven months earlier. Wilson has been a dog groomer for about a year, she told the magistrate Friday. Her cousin said after the attack that Wilson works six days a week.

The dog had gotten out of the utility room in Wilson's Hunters Ridge Lane townhouse in North Charleston and chased a 16-year-old girl who is afraid of dogs upstairs to a bedroom, where it attacked Brian. He died the next day at Medical University Hospital from bite wounds to his neck and airway.

The dog had killed a relative's cat the week before, family members have said. They said the dog was never aggressive toward people and attributed the attack to a dislike of other animals.

Garrison's affidavit addresses the dog's prior aggression but also cites other issues that pre-date the April attack by eight months.

The dog wasn't properly cared for, and had never been examined to determine its health but was allowed to mix with children in the home, Garrison said. In addition to the cat, detectives learned that the pit bull had attacked the dog of a visitor, Garrison said.

Wilson would leave Brian in the care of other children with no adult supervision, the affidavit states. The day of the attack, there were four other children in the townhouse, ranging from ages 2 to 16, Wilson's cousin said at the time.

Wilson's conduct toward the children continued even after repeated visits by DSS, Garrison said.

"This is cumulative. It wasn't one incident," he said. "The dog is not on trial. It's the care or lack of care that led up to the attack."

Wilson could still have faced the charge of unlawful conduct toward a child, even without the attack on Brian, if the issues had come to the attention of deputies, Garrison said.

The Sheriff's Office was never notified of problems in the home, he said.

"It's a DSS judgment call. That's left up to them. They do the best they can do with what they have, just like we do," he said.

The pit bull also could have been declared a dangerous animal under a Dorchester County ordinance had someone told authorities that the dog had previously attacked a cat, Dorchester County Animal Control Supervisor Officer Melissa McKee has said. The dog was euthanized after the fatal attack last month. A rabies test was negative.

The animal rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals asked Dorchester County Council to ban or restrict new ownership of pit bulls after Brian's death. Protesters against banning the breed showed up at Monday's council meeting, but the issue wasn't on the agenda. State law doesn't allow the county to declare a breed of dog dangerous, Administrator Jason Ward said.

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#606448 - 15/05/07 10:52 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well done Tim.

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#606449 - 15/05/07 12:14 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Auditor_Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Dundee, IL
Quote:
Protesters against banning the breed showed up at Monday's council meeting, but the issue wasn't on the agenda.
The vocal minority at it again......

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#606450 - 15/05/07 12:33 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by porsche996:
Because they're TERRIERS... I don't see a whole lot of other Terrier breeds doing a whole lot of working, either. A Cairne, Scottish, etc. terrier wouldn't exactly be a good hunting dog, herding dog, or other WORKING dog, either... Doesn't make them less "great".

Or do you believe a dog has to be a working breed in order to have a use? My pug has absolutely no "working" function whatsoever...[/QUOTE]

Actually, that's not true. Terriers are essentially working dogs, and their functions, historically speaking, were for hunting, especially varminting. If you want a dog to burrow down into a hole and kill a badger, you couldn't do much better than a Scottish Terrier.

Your Pug, on the other hand, was bred purely for entertainment and companionship. I have an English book, printed in the late 19th Century, that describes the Pug's history in England as misunderstood. A Chinese text, used for decades as a history of the breed, was mistranslated. It was originally understood that the Pug was not only a companion, but a "fighting" dog, meant to entertain royalty in matches which would go on for hours. This was puzzling, considering that a Pug is hardly capable of killing anything, much less another Pug. A subsequent translation revealed that the text indicated that the Pug was not a fighting dog, but a "wrestling" dog, which would "fight" with other Pugs for hours. Which makes a lot more sense.

So, there's your dog geek tidbit for the week.

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#606451 - 15/05/07 12:42 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Auditor_Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Dundee, IL
Pit Bull Attacks Citizen At The Same Moment City Council Debates Breed Ban

Eh, I was going to link to more pit bull attack stories but to be perfectly honest - it would take the hours of a part time job to document them all. Just google news search "pit bull attack" to see daily attacks from every corner of the country. [Wave]

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#606452 - 15/05/07 04:33 PM Re: Pit Bulls
xterra3202 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Georgia
Holy fuck dude.......your just an idiot.

Like I posted before....

18 dead people a year=sad but thats life versus

1.9 million dead dogs=maybe we are the problem here!!!!

Tim
_________________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrannts."

Thomas Jefferson

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#606453 - 15/05/07 08:28 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


I came face to face with a whole pack of Pit Bulls the other day.



I ran the hell outta there Full Throttle.



When I got home, I though some Cocaine might settle my nerves.

[img]http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/xoxide_1947_103387088[/img]

Instead it got me all Crunk.



And I was all Amp'd up.



I felt like some kind of Rock Star.



But when crash I always turn into some kind of Monster.



And wake up feeling like somebody kicked me in the Bawls.


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#606454 - 15/05/07 08:57 PM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered


booo!!!!!

[ThumbsDown] [ThumbsDown] [ThumbsDown] [ThumbsDown]

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#606455 - 16/05/07 07:49 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Auditor_Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Dundee, IL
Quote:
Originally posted by xterra3202:


18 dead people a year=sad but thats life versus

1.9 million dead dogs=maybe we are the problem here!!!!

Who's advocating killing 1.9 million dogs here? And where did that number come from??

Wouldn't better regulation and stiffer penalties for breaking those regulations actually benefit the pit bulls themselves, since they wouldn't fall into the hands of the scumbag owners that use them to fight?

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#606456 - 18/07/07 09:35 AM Re: Pit Bulls
Anonymous
Unregistered



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