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#607360 - 02/11/07 05:56 AM Airplane on a treadmill question
Trihead Offline
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Registered: 09/10/02
Posts: 1669
Loc: Austin Texas
Looks like we will have the answer soon. The mythbusters will be taking this one on. I think the show airs on the 12th of Dec.

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#607361 - 02/11/07 08:45 AM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Awesome. When we had the whole debate about it a few months ago I emailed the guys on there. Love that show.

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#607362 - 02/11/07 09:57 AM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Richard Krenn Offline
Member

Registered: 16/08/00
Posts: 557
Loc: Mount Vernon, WA, USA
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9801967776/m/5321919039/p/1

Airplane Hour
(Weds., December 12 at 9 PM ET/PT)
Adam and Jamie find out if either of them can safely land a Boeing 747-400 on a runway in varying weather conditions. Meanwhile, Kari, Tory and Grant risk life and limb to investigate skydiving myths regularly featured in Hollywood action films. Is it possible to catch up with someone in freefall if that person jumps out a plane before you do? Can you really hold a conversation during freefall? And would you survive if you opened your parachute only a few feet off the ground? Finally, Adam and Jamie carefully navigate their way through a myth that has baffled everyone from web bloggers to pilots. If a plane is traveling at takeoff speed on a conveyor belt, and the belt is matching that speed in the opposite direction, can the plane take off? Extensive small-scale testing with a super treadmill and a nearly uncontrollable model airplane don't completely resolve the myth, so our flight cadets supersize the myth with help from a willing pilot and his Ultralight flying machine.
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#607363 - 02/11/07 10:04 AM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
BurgPath Offline
Member

Registered: 25/05/02
Posts: 2146
Loc: Knoxville, Tn
Sweet!

Yes you can hold a conversation, you just have to yell and be really close. smile Catch someone? Maybe if the first person falls 'big' while the chaser has a winged suit on.
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Kevin
- 2008.5 Titan SE 4x4
Burgy --- Nissan Offroad Association of the Southeast

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#607364 - 02/11/07 10:05 AM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


oh pissa!

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#607365 - 02/11/07 12:13 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


It's about time!!! I hate to admit this, but I was the one responsible for bringing that question here [Too much XOC] I think that it was even stated in that thread that the Mythbusters should handle it!

AWESOME!!! I'm setting TIVO for that one!

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#607366 - 02/11/07 12:28 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
NY Madman Offline
Member
*

Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 5232
Loc: Florida
Is it possible to catch up with someone in freefall if that person jumps out a plane before you do?

Hasn't that already been solved?

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#607367 - 02/11/07 12:47 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Chris Mc Offline
Member

Registered: 16/11/00
Posts: 1535
Loc: St Charles, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]Is it possible to catch up with someone in freefall if that person jumps out a plane before you do?

Hasn't that already been solved?[/b]
Seems like a no-brainer to me. If not, read up on terminal velocity .

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#607368 - 02/11/07 03:27 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Mc:
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b][b]Is it possible to catch up with someone in freefall if that person jumps out a plane before you do?

Hasn't that already been solved?[/b]
Seems like a no-brainer to me. If not, read up on terminal velocity .[/b]
Not meaning to open a can of worms, but...

Wouldn't it depend? Specifically on what you were wearing? Baggy clothes would create more drag, I would think...skin tight clothing would not.

(I understand the terminal velocity...but I would assume that neither person is naked)

The only way you could answer this question (one way or the other) is if they are in a freefall inside a vaccuum.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#607369 - 02/11/07 03:32 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Mc:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b][b]Is it possible to catch up with someone in freefall if that person jumps out a plane before you do?

Hasn't that already been solved?[/b]
Seems like a no-brainer to me. If not, read up on terminal velocity .[/b]
Not meaning to open a can of worms, but...

Wouldn't it depend? Specifically on what you were wearing? Baggy clothes would create more drag, I would think...skin tight clothing would not.

(I understand the terminal velocity...but I would assume that neither person is naked)

The only way you could answer this question (one way or the other) is if they are in a freefall inside a vaccuum.[/b]
100 percent correct. I am a skydiver and in skydiving there are different styles of skydiving. Falling flat on your stomach you normally reach about 125 mph, flying in a sit position you can reach 160 mph and headdown upwards of 170 mph. Plus weight, drag of suit, altitude, and a bunch of others things come into effect. Although it is not easy, you can reach someone who jumps out of a plane before, it just can't be a long period of time.

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#607370 - 02/11/07 03:32 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


[Save the fine unicorns] [Save the fine unicorns] [Save the fine unicorns] [Save the fine unicorns] [Save the fine unicorns] [Save the fine unicorns]

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#607371 - 02/11/07 07:46 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered




Finally, another excuse to post this thing...

MGJ

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#607372 - 02/11/07 10:39 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Origami Gangsta Offline
Member

Registered: 24/05/01
Posts: 6497
Loc: Dammit! Even CLOSER to Smith a...
Quote:
Originally posted by NY Madman:
[b]Is it possible to catch up with someone in freefall if that person jumps out a plane before you do?

Hasn't that already been solved?[/b]
Travis Pastrana just did this recently.

Crazy sonofabitch.
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#607373 - 03/11/07 11:43 AM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Happy Birthday xterrapin Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1842
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
The mythbusters will be taking this one on.
On a somewhat unrelated point, Kari Byron is my neighbor. I see her all the time at the pizza joint accross the street. Yes, she is truly that HOT!

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"I came for the soccermommycars but I stayed for the retards."

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#607374 - 03/11/07 11:53 AM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[qb] The mythbusters will be taking this one on.
On a somewhat unrelated point, Kari Wilson is my neighbor. I see her all the time at the pizza joint accross the street. Yes, she is truly that HOT!
Who's Kari Wilson?

That's Kari Byron.

laugh
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#607375 - 03/11/07 01:33 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Happy Birthday xterrapin Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1842
Loc: San Francisco
Quote:
Originally posted by Mobycat:
Quote:
Originally posted by xterrapin:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Trihead:
[qb] The mythbusters will be taking this one on.
On a somewhat unrelated point, Kari Wilson is my neighbor. I see her all the time at the pizza joint accross the street. Yes, she is truly that HOT!
Who's Kari Wilson?

That's Kari Byron.

laugh [/b]
My bad, corrected.

Boy, I pretty much blew all credibility on my claim to fame with that one.
_________________________
"I came for the soccermommycars but I stayed for the retards."

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#607376 - 03/11/07 06:42 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Being a pilot, the myth that a plane could take off from a tredmill is impossible. Its not the speed the wheels are travleing that make the plane take off. its the speed of the air iver the wings which creates the lift. Now, it would be possible for a plane to land or i guess even take off vertically, given the right wind conditions for the specific plane. I've heard of a navy pilot land on an aircraft carrier the was heading into hurricane force winds. he practically hovered over the ship into the wind and touched down. his relative motion was very slow but his airspeed was still over 100 knots. just like i've had my cessna start to go back watds druing slow flight.

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#607377 - 05/11/07 12:40 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


For all the Kari Byron fans out there

Linky May be NSFW depending

laugh

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#607378 - 05/11/07 01:21 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by JMo:
Being a pilot, the myth that a plane could take off from a tredmill is impossible. Its not the speed the wheels are travleing that make the plane take off. its the speed of the air iver the wings which creates the lift. Now, it would be possible for a plane to land or i guess even take off vertically, given the right wind conditions for the specific plane. I've heard of a navy pilot land on an aircraft carrier the was heading into hurricane force winds. he practically hovered over the ship into the wind and touched down. his relative motion was very slow but his airspeed was still over 100 knots. just like i've had my cessna start to go back watds druing slow flight.
Right on. The name of the game is airspeed, not ground speed. I have seen Cessnas take off in a 50 knot headwind, and climb almost straight up above the field. Then it tipped its wing and took off like a bat out of hell.

The answers to most of these questions are obvious to people experienced in the area, but not always to the average person on the street. Mythbusters is a great show and I always enjoy watching it.

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#607379 - 05/11/07 01:35 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Samueul Offline
Member

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 4114
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA. USA
Quote:
Originally posted by JMo:
Being a pilot, the myth that a plane could take off from a tredmill is impossible. Its not the speed the wheels are travleing that make the plane take off. its the speed of the air iver the wings which creates the lift. Now, it would be possible for a plane to land or i guess even take off vertically, given the right wind conditions for the specific plane. I've heard of a navy pilot land on an aircraft carrier the was heading into hurricane force winds. he practically hovered over the ship into the wind and touched down. his relative motion was very slow but his airspeed was still over 100 knots. just like i've had my cessna start to go back watds druing slow flight.
Um,,, That's exactly why it would take off, because the ground speed and the wheels don't matter and it's the initial thrust pushing the plane through the air that generates lift below the wings etc. Since the plane isn't anchored to the treadmill, it's going to take off no matter how fast the treadmill goes in the opposite direction.
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#607380 - 05/11/07 02:24 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Coop Offline
Member

Registered: 30/04/03
Posts: 757
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Run on a treadmill. How much wind in your face do your feel? If the plane is not moving on the ground it's airspeed is 0 discounting any wind.

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#607381 - 05/11/07 02:25 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Samueul:
Quote:
Originally posted by JMo:
[b]Being a pilot, the myth that a plane could take off from a tredmill is impossible. Its not the speed the wheels are travleing that make the plane take off. its the speed of the air iver the wings which creates the lift. Now, it would be possible for a plane to land or i guess even take off vertically, given the right wind conditions for the specific plane. I've heard of a navy pilot land on an aircraft carrier the was heading into hurricane force winds. he practically hovered over the ship into the wind and touched down. his relative motion was very slow but his airspeed was still over 100 knots. just like i've had my cessna start to go back watds druing slow flight.
Um,,, That's exactly why it would take off, because the ground speed and the wheels don't matter and it's the initial thrust pushing the plane through the air that generates lift below the wings etc. Since the plane isn't anchored to the treadmill, it's going to take off no matter how fast the treadmill goes in the opposite direction.[/b]
What "initial thrust"? I'm not following your explaination.

An airplane on a treadmill would not generate the necessary airspeed over its wings to produce lift required for flight.

Here is an example:
An airplanes takeoff airspeed is 80mph. This means the air must travel over the wings at 80 mph, the ground speed is irrelevant. If it takes off in a no wind condition, it must have a ground speed of 80 mph to have the required 80 mph airspeed. If the plane takes off into a 20mph headwind, it only needs to travel at 60mph ground speed to generate an 80 mph airspeed over its wings. Now if it has a 20 mph tailwind, it must have a 100mph ground speed to achieve a 80mph airspeed.

So if this same plane was on a treadmill going 80mph (ground speed), what would the airspeed over the wings be?

The answer is zero. With a zero mph airspeed over the wings the plane would generate no lift, and it would be unable to overcome the force of gravity.

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#607382 - 05/11/07 03:00 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Oh good God...not again!
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#607383 - 05/11/07 03:01 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Mobycat Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 8374
Loc: the hue of dungeons and the sc...
Quote:
Originally posted by RiverPig:
For all the Kari Byron fans out there

Linky May be NSFW depending

laugh
I feel sorry for the person who's boss thinks that is NSFW.
_________________________
"Nature has constituted utility to man the standard and test of virtue. Men living in different countries, under different circumstances, different habits and regimens, may have different utilities; the same act, therefore, may be useful and consequently virtuous in one country which is injurious and vicious in another differently circumstanced" - Thomas Jefferson, moral relativist

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#607384 - 05/11/07 03:07 PM Re: Airplane on a treadmill question
Auditor_Kevin Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1016
Loc: Dundee, IL
I can't believe the airplane on a treadmill is even a debate. Of course it can't take off. If it did, it would be hovering, not flying.

C'mon people!

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